How could you have made High Density public housing WORK?

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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

Post by Simon_Jester »

Apparently he thinks that everyone who isn't in the middle class likes to break windows and urinate in public for fun.
energiewende wrote:Now indeed seems to be the majority position. The way to fix public housing: require middle class norms and kick out anyone who violates them. Fine, I agree that will work. You wonder why in the US and Europe this doesn't happen? Because most people with middle class norms live in low density private homes.
1) As fuel gets more expensive and jobs get scarcer in the 21st century this is going to change; to an extent it already has.
2) The norms in question are not 'middle class.' They are and have been perfectly normal among blue collar workers and for that matter the unemployed in many societies. If you think "don't break the windows and don't poop in the stairwell" is a "middle class norm," you are sadly mistaken and disturbingly prejudiced.
Places like China people with middle class norms have to live in econoblocks because they are poor, and places like Singapore they have to live in them because land is expensive.
This suggests that in and of itself there is not much relationship between poverty and that which you call "middle class norms." Do you agree?
What, then, is the high density public housing for? What do you do with the persistently anti-social? Cane them until they shape up, as proposed? Leave them to die in the streets?
The key is to put some actual thought into the social conditions of the projects. Having a FEW antisocial people in a building isn't so bad, as long as there is a real, functioning community of people with jobs and prospects.

A village can persist even if it has a village idiot. 200 individual homesteaders who have no social ties to one another will look at that same village idiot and consider him a creepy potential home invader and try to move away from him- because they are all isolated and fearful of their neighbors.

So if you want functional high-density housing to work, you need community. You need jobs (and places to engage in basic life-sustaining commerce, the two go together) close to the living space. You need layout that promotes interaction, not just warehousing for people. You need a serious, persistent, responsible effort by local government and citizens' organizations to keep some kind of order and commonwealth in the community.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

Post by K. A. Pital »

energiewende wrote:Places like China people with middle class norms have to live in econoblocks because they are poor
People who are firmly outside the Western middle class and by and large do not have the opportunity to live anywhere but in highrises, can get along. In the West as well; but not everywhere. A Chinatown in the West may house poor people, but it is unlikely to be found so highly disfunctional, full of piss and graffiti, although people there aren't "middle class".

Usually I found working poor communities much more well-tended than communities of people on "social insurance" or the like. Perhaps it has to do with intergration; perhaps it has something to do with work. When your parents are making a penny by cleaning up houses, you don't feel like going there and shitting all over their potential workplace.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

The spread of the Single family home concept in the US was one of the worst things that could ever happen to The CIty…

There are a HELL of a lot of great points on the last page, too many to quote, but the summary of most of them is that moving vast amounts of population into pure residential areas is what killed the mixed use form of living that has been the norm for the last several hundred years.

It is also a very distinctively American ideal… There are plenty of other single family housing across the world, but only in the US do people fell they are ENTITLED to a standard "Lawn, porch, backyard, garage" type house…
Many Americans think that as populations and cities get bigger, that you have to have equally bigger and bigger city "Zones" All res, all commercial, all industrial…

Once again, following the works of Pablo Solari, the Reverse is true…
In a massive mega city, there should smaller and smaller subdivisions of different city parts. Living and working side by side, recreation and shopping again side by side of living and working.

As far as the question "What do you do with the Poor people?"
Well it all depends how you define someone as poor…In some of Solari's work, he recommended utilizing out of work and homeless people for the construction and labor force in constructing his "Archologies" They would live in temporary housing with the promise of a permanent home when they finish.
When one had been 'finished' (Although Solari would say no Arc is ever truly finished) the workers could either move into the newly finished homes, or move on to the next construction project.

I'll admit that is a rather idealized solution, but it is something to consider.
the "poor" are only poor because they have no money. By and large it is NOT because they are 'lazy' or stupid, or drug addicts, or criminals, etc etc… The way to deal with "the poor" is simply get them working and earning money.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

Post by PainRack »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:T
Once again, following the works of Pablo Solari, the Reverse is true…
In a massive mega city, there should smaller and smaller subdivisions of different city parts. Living and working side by side, recreation and shopping again side by side of living and working.
I like to point out that as our city grew more dense, we actually moved towards centralisation of services. Having shophouses on the first floor of each HDB block increased transportation costs, had relatively poor foot traffic and the rise in rental drove the collapse of most 1st floor shops. There are still exceptions, for example, the Pinnacle, which is a prestige project but in the rest of Singapore, decentralising shopping to the 1st floor of HDBs has been found impractical.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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energiewende wrote:So my original, satirical contribution:
Throw out all the actual poor people and replace them with children of upper middle classes who are unemployable because of their non-marketable skills.
Now indeed seems to be the majority position. The way to fix public housing: require middle class norms and kick out anyone who violates them. Fine, I agree that will work. You wonder why in the US and Europe this doesn't happen? Because most people with middle class norms live in low density private homes. Places like China people with middle class norms have to live in econoblocks because they are poor, and places like Singapore they have to live in them because land is expensive. What, then, is the high density public housing for? What do you do with the persistently anti-social? Cane them until they shape up, as proposed? Leave them to die in the streets?
.............. Its odd you think that we're talking about kicking out the anti social, when the message in the thread is that massive social engineering and the creation of social enforcement, from the police to other mechanisms are used.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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Crossroads Inc. wrote:Many Americans think that as populations and cities get bigger, that you have to have equally bigger and bigger city "Zones" All res, all commercial, all industrial…
^ This is very true.

Despite being thoroughly American, though, I've long been enamored of the shop below/apartments above arrangement and have even had the good fortune to spend quite a bit of my life in or near such arrangements. My current building of residence happens to be one, being zoned for mixed residential and commercial and currently housing two businesses in addition to three living units. Where I work there are two businesses in the front of the lot and a duplex semi-attached behind them.

Granted, that's not a high density housing block but I think it's a better way to arrange space even out here in the suburbs. The town where I work (not the same one where I live) is still quite "walkable" and indeed during my lunch hour I can walk to get errands done, there being a bank branch, post office, various small eateries, shops, and a library all within easy walking distance.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

Post by energiewende »

PainRack wrote:
energiewende wrote:So my original, satirical contribution:
Throw out all the actual poor people and replace them with children of upper middle classes who are unemployable because of their non-marketable skills.
Now indeed seems to be the majority position. The way to fix public housing: require middle class norms and kick out anyone who violates them. Fine, I agree that will work. You wonder why in the US and Europe this doesn't happen? Because most people with middle class norms live in low density private homes. Places like China people with middle class norms have to live in econoblocks because they are poor, and places like Singapore they have to live in them because land is expensive. What, then, is the high density public housing for? What do you do with the persistently anti-social? Cane them until they shape up, as proposed? Leave them to die in the streets?
.............. Its odd you think that we're talking about kicking out the anti social, when the message in the thread is that massive social engineering and the creation of social enforcement, from the police to other mechanisms are used.
The only difference is kicking them to other estates, or kicking them into prison. Which is just an even higher density estate with even more massive, but likely not more successful, social engineering attempts.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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PainRack wrote: I like to point out that as our city grew more dense, we actually moved towards centralisation of services. Having shophouses on the first floor of each HDB block increased transportation costs, had relatively poor foot traffic and the rise in rental drove the collapse of most 1st floor shops. There are still exceptions, for example, the Pinnacle, which is a prestige project but in the rest of Singapore, decentralising shopping to the 1st floor of HDBs has been found impractical.
I am curious what do you think the reasons for this was?
Was it a matter of over saturation of shops per person?
Obviously for certain services, Centralization is a GOOD thing, especially in terms of organizational aspects.
Broomstick wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:Many Americans think that as populations and cities get bigger, that you have to have equally bigger and bigger city "Zones" All res, all commercial, all industrial…
^ This is very true.

Despite being thoroughly American, though, I've long been enamored of the shop below/apartments above arrangement and have even had the good fortune to spend quite a bit of my life in or near such arrangements. My current building of residence happens to be one, being zoned for mixed residential and commercial and currently housing two businesses in addition to three living units. Where I work there are two businesses in the front of the lot and a duplex semi-attached behind them.

Granted, that's not a high density housing block but I think it's a better way to arrange space even out here in the suburbs. The town where I work (not the same one where I live) is still quite "walkable" and indeed during my lunch hour I can walk to get errands done, there being a bank branch, post office, various small eateries, shops, and a library all within easy walking distance.
And that is the key think for me (IMHO) when it comes to 'The City' is walkability.
Americans have this strange concept that it is the 'Small Town' where you can walk anywhere to get your food or such, because it is small.
And in the 'Big City' you have to have a car, because it is big...

But the reverse is true. In a well planned city, you should not need a car, because the density means everything you want is close by. And if something is NOT close by, you should have pervasive mass transit to take you where you need to go. Whereas in a small town, you actually would need a vehicle because the 'conner grocer' might live 5miles from you.

If it where up to me, most low density Suburbs, would be replaced with medium density mixed units. Perhaps four to five stories in size.
San Francisco is an excellent example of this ((For the US at least)).
Much of the down town area is mixed used construction, typically between three to six stories in size. Also while there are lots of "Single Family homes" Almost 90% of the housing is Row housing-ish. Individual houses crammed up against other houses. 'Yards' are tiny plots for a few shrubs and pants. When compared to a sprawling suburb, the efficacy of it is highly noticeable.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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energiewende wrote: The only difference is kicking them to other estates, or kicking them into prison. Which is just an even higher density estate with even more massive, but likely not more successful, social engineering attempts.
So...... mind quoting where the Asian states such as Hong Kong or Singapore has done what you suggested? We haven't kicked them to other states or kicked them into prison.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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Crossroads Inc. wrote: I am curious what do you think the reasons for this was?
Was it a matter of over saturation of shops per person?
Obviously for certain services, Centralization is a GOOD thing, especially in terms of organizational aspects.
Yup. That and relatively poor foot traffic and stiff competition was the main reason. When costs, such as rental rose due to other economic factors, the shops viability disappeared.

A lot of the shop concepts were also not viable in the new Singapore, such as the cigarette stalls. These shops were small kiosks which migrated from the roadside into the 1st floor shops, selling small stuff like snacks, newspapers and cigarettes. They also carried a variety of small toys like marbles or paper aeroplanes/water guns. The thing is, as supermarts, supermarkets opened up, they squeezed out the market away from these kiosks.

Supermarkets in every neighourhood, often within walking distance just sucked up the road traffic. For everything else...... tailoring disappeared due to the markets and barbers had to shift to a commercial designation to get enough traffic to meet costs and competition.

I'm sure you heard of the Walmart phenomena? The density of our estates increased so much that we were able to put a shopping mall into each estate with a shopping centre(or mini mall) at each neighourhood. So, small shops and independent business owners started disappearing.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

Post by energiewende »

PainRack wrote:
energiewende wrote: The only difference is kicking them to other estates, or kicking them into prison. Which is just an even higher density estate with even more massive, but likely not more successful, social engineering attempts.
So...... mind quoting where the Asian states such as Hong Kong or Singapore has done what you suggested? We haven't kicked them to other states or kicked them into prison.
Instead Singapore canes them. You also stated that anti-social behaviour leads to eviction from subsidised housing, and it should be well known to you that Singapore has slums much worse than Western housing projects. Estates.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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energiewende wrote:Instead Singapore canes them.
Hong Kong doesn't cane people. Neither do many other cities with highrises and yet a population generally more poor than in the West. You are grasping at straws here, and you haven't replied to the core objection.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

Post by energiewende »

Stas Bush wrote:
energiewende wrote:Instead Singapore canes them.
Hong Kong doesn't cane people. Neither do many other cities with highrises and yet a population generally more poor than in the West. You are grasping at straws here, and you haven't replied to the core objection.
As I said previously, the fact that people are poorer in those countries is largely what makes high rises work: the middle classes live in them rather than in the West, where only the underclass lives in them. It's primarily the behavior and attitude of the residents that counts, not how much money they earn.

HK also has slums for those who don't co-operate.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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PainRack wrote: Yup. That and relatively poor foot traffic and stiff competition was the main reason. When costs, such as rental rose due to other economic factors, the shops viability disappeared.

A lot of the shop concepts were also not viable in the new Singapore, such as the cigarette stalls. These shops were small kiosks which migrated from the roadside into the 1st floor shops, selling small stuff like snacks, newspapers and cigarettes. They also carried a variety of small toys like marbles or paper aeroplanes/water guns. The thing is, as supermarts, supermarkets opened up, they squeezed out the market away from these kiosks.

Supermarkets in every neighourhood, often within walking distance just sucked up the road traffic. For everything else...... tailoring disappeared due to the markets and barbers had to shift to a commercial designation to get enough traffic to meet costs and competition.

I'm sure you heard of the Walmart phenomena? The density of our estates increased so much that we were able to put a shopping mall into each estate with a shopping centre(or mini mall) at each neighourhood. So, small shops and independent business owners started disappearing.
Ah yes, THAT is where "Smart Planning" comes into effect.
Most cities grow 'organically" a bit at a time. So You end up with situations like you described. Obviously if you have a super market on every corner it becomes unsustainable. The REAL Prize of the "High Dense Urban Planning" paradise, is to engineer the layout in such a way that small shop owners can still flourish.

You have VERY few "big" stores. You use Math and Algorithms and such to work out the max tolerable walking distance for a shopping center. You may even make some of them ar enough so you would want to take a Light Rail transit. The majority of things that you would need day to day, you should be able to get from smaller shops near by.

Because in planning out Huge Cities "The Walmart phenomena" is indeed something that will cause the death of small business, and by extension, tightly knit communities that often spring up around them.
Because at the end of the day, that is what you REALLY want to foster in Mega Cities, community. You WANT neighbor to know neighbor, to know the shop owner down the road, to be on first name basis with the corner grocer.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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energiewende wrote:As I said previously, the fact that people are poorer in those countries is largely what makes high rises work: the middle classes live in them rather than in the West, where only the underclass lives in them. It's primarily the behavior and attitude of the residents that counts, not how much money they earn. HK also has slums for those who don't co-operate.
Slums of HK are connected with the rise of a gastarbeiter underclass, but believe me, even the poorer parts of HK lack the careless attitudes displayed in the West: vandalized windows, buildings, walls, public infrastructure (trains, cars). Or you may not believe me, but unlike you I've been to and have lived for a prolonged period in more than 10 different countries which included Asia, United States, Europe and former USSR. You, on the other hand, dismiss the possibility of organizing a good community in a highrise from people who don't have any "middle class culture". Hell, if you'd say to a Chinese inhabitant of a non-luxury highrise he carries a middle class culture, he'd laugh hard - most likely he/she is a working person, not a middle-class small bourgeois (those prefer the more wealthy gated complexes).

You seem to hate poor people with a passion: in your eyes they're incapable of maintaining a society of high culture, but the very opposite is true. They're quite capable of that. Most Russians were and are not rich either, but destroying high-rises and shitting on your trains, buses and trams was not and even now is a fringe situation.

Russia (and I mean post-Soviet states in general), Singapore, Hong Kong, mainland China, Malaysia seem to have clean and efficient urban rail/metro, without ubiqutous vandalism.

On the other hand, public infrastructure and high-rises are routinely vandalized in the West, and that includes the US and many other countries, though not all. For example, vandalism was found to be rare in the Spanish subway, but quite prevalent in the German subway.

Your thinking about these matters is so simplistic that it hardly even makes sense.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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energiewende wrote: Instead Singapore canes them. You also stated that anti-social behaviour leads to eviction from subsidised housing, and it should be well known to you that Singapore has slums much worse than Western housing projects. Estates.
You're referring to a workers dorm as public housing? Seriously? Slums? Don't make me laugh.

And btw, caning as a charge for vandalism is seldom used because the charge requires that public property like roads and stop signs be vandalised with indelible paint. . Not housing.

As for said ordinances, again, social engineering. The fact STILL remains that the system of penalties and fines we invoked has created an environment where the poor DON"T violate social norms. So, no vandalism, a reduction in killer litter, a reduction in inadequate windows maintenance and current campaigns to prevent corridor clutter.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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Crossroads Inc. wrote: Ah yes, THAT is where "Smart Planning" comes into effect.
Most cities grow 'organically" a bit at a time. So You end up with situations like you described. Obviously if you have a super market on every corner it becomes unsustainable. The REAL Prize of the "High Dense Urban Planning" paradise, is to engineer the layout in such a way that small shop owners can still flourish.

You have VERY few "big" stores. You use Math and Algorithms and such to work out the max tolerable walking distance for a shopping center. You may even make some of them ar enough so you would want to take a Light Rail transit. The majority of things that you would need day to day, you should be able to get from smaller shops near by.

Because in planning out Huge Cities "The Walmart phenomena" is indeed something that will cause the death of small business, and by extension, tightly knit communities that often spring up around them.
Because at the end of the day, that is what you REALLY want to foster in Mega Cities, community. You WANT neighbor to know neighbor, to know the shop owner down the road, to be on first name basis with the corner grocer.
The thing is, denser populations tend to lose that sense of community, as sociology shows.

And the reason for supermarkets popping up is a reason of economics and need. And note, what you wanted? That's exactly WHAT we did. I used the term Walmarts only because of NTUC ubiquity, not because of the existence of hypermarkets. So, we managed to place a shopping centre within walking distance of each block of house, then a central shopping nexus with a transport hub serving as a node to the larger transport network...........

And all of this resulted in HDB blocks having too little foot traffic to survive the increased rental costs from a rising economy.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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There's no contradiction between big stores and dense urban communities - New York City has had big stores for decades that were built into the urban lay-out, and the Tokyo Area had big stores built around the more rail-oriented urban lay-out there. Put a hyper-market in a big, dense city where most people get around by bus and rail, and they'll look different and work differently compared to one sitting out in county land at the edge of a city.

If anything, the density could work in favor of hyper-markets. Instead of having a spread-out strip mall, you could have a whole bunch of Walmarts and other stores close together and easily accessible by public transit. Supply and Delivery Trucks could pack more into their deliveries to the stores in these areas. Having a bunch of the same type of store together is a good thing, too - it improves options, competition, and quality in what they provide (just like with having a bunch of restaurants in the same area competing).
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

Post by Welf »

Simon_Jester wrote:My theory:

There's a certain fixed percentage of the population that is highly dysfunctional and will 'shit where they eat' in that they damage and prey upon their own living spaces and infrastructure. This percentage has little or nothing to do with any other economic factor, it's just that, say, 5% of all humans are crazy and dysfunctional and have no sense of community.

In the developed world, where the poor make up a minority of the population, these 5% of dysfunctional humans are overrepresented. Being poor doesn't mean you're a vandal. But being the sort of person who routinely vandalizes property means you are likely to become poor, or stay poor, because it correlates with being dysfunctional.

Now let's make up some numbers for the sake of having an example.

So if, say, 15% of the population is poor enough to need public housing in a First World Country, if 5% of the population is dysfunctional, and if virtually all dysfunctional people become or remain poor, then if you build housing for poor people, one in every three tenants will be a thug, vandal, addict, or lunatic. Not good. This means that housing in the poor areas will suffer a LOT of vandalism, and the only thing you can really do is try to screen out the (numerous) thugs, vandals, addicts, and lunatics.

Your success rate will be finite, and over the long haul the poor community experiences a massive amount of vandalism compared to a richer one. And it is less equipped to repair the vandalism, so the damage becomes permanent.

...

By contrast, in a Third World country where, say, 75% of the population lives in housing no better than the First World's public housing, the population of vandals, thugs, and freaks is still only 5% of the total. Now, instead of having one in three people be a vandal, it's one in fifteen. Which means that the community can police its own ranks, punish or ostracize vandals, and that the overall rate of vandalism declines to something that can hopefully be kept under control by maintainence even in a poor environment.

It also helps if the housing is under strong social controls that penalize people for acting like thugs, vandals, or freaks. Singapore does this, based on the descriptions I'm seeing. I imagine that, say, housing blocks in the Soviet Union had this too- I can't imagine them being ineffectively policed to the extent that public housing in parts of the West is (and was at that time). You, Stas, would know more of that than I.
I somewhat agree with that theory, but you downgrade the poor to much and use "dysfunctional" too easily.
I'm coming from a very wealthy region that is also partly rural. My parents used a government loan to expand our house and had to rent the new unit to people with low or no income. But because it was a wealthy region everyone who came had problems. Usually very flexible ideas about paying rent or stealing our stuff.
Later I moved to the capital and there we had high unemployment. Which meant a lot of good people had no jobs just because of circumstances. So far i agree with you.
But I think it's too much to say those 5% are only in the poor parts. There are a lot of people aggressive people in middle and upper class. And I do remember with jobs who pissed against house walls because going 5 meter to toilet would be too much walking. I come from a rural areas as I said.
And there is the problem how of how to define "dysfunction". For example. there are a lot of gang member who seem to be dysfunctional because they destroy property with no second guessing. But are they really dysfunctional? those gang members are often immigrants or from lower classes who have no chance of improving their life because they are excluded from normal society and thus have no stakes in public goods. But they behave perfect within their own circles.
Simon_Jester wrote:A village can persist even if it has a village idiot. 200 individual homesteaders who have no social ties to one another will look at that same village idiot and consider him a creepy potential home invader and try to move away from him- because they are all isolated and fearful of their neighbors.
Maybe, but if you just can ban the village idiot after a show trial life gets better instantly.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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Welf wrote:I somewhat agree with that theory, but you downgrade the poor to much and use "dysfunctional" too easily.

I'm coming from a very wealthy region that is also partly rural. My parents used a government loan to expand our house and had to rent the new unit to people with low or no income. But because it was a wealthy region everyone who came had problems. Usually very flexible ideas about paying rent or stealing our stuff.

Later I moved to the capital and there we had high unemployment. Which meant a lot of good people had no jobs just because of circumstances. So far i agree with you.
Right; this was the reason I tried to draw a distinction between 'dysfunctional' and 'poor.' Under SOME conditions every functional person in the area will be able to hold together basic living conditions and have no need of public housing. Under OTHER conditions, almost no one will, unless you count living in a hut made out of plywood and corrugated iron to count as "basic living conditions."
But I think it's too much to say those 5% are only in the poor parts. There are a lot of people aggressive people in middle and upper class. And I do remember with jobs who pissed against house walls because going 5 meter to toilet would be too much walking. I come from a rural areas as I said.
I didn't mean to imply that only poor people are dysfunctional. The catch is that dysfunctional people are overrepresented among poor people. Therefore, any plan to house lots of poor people in one place must take into account "how will we handle poor people who happen to be dysfunctional?
And there is the problem how of how to define "dysfunction". For example. there are a lot of gang member who seem to be dysfunctional because they destroy property with no second guessing. But are they really dysfunctional? those gang members are often immigrants or from lower classes who have no chance of improving their life because they are excluded from normal society and thus have no stakes in public goods. But they behave perfect within their own circles.
They're dysfunctional right now though- the only way to include them in normal society is to break up the gang and re-educate the gangsters on how to behave in that society. So as a practical matter, if you stuff a housing block full of such people, it's going to turn into a bloodbath or a vandalized ruin in pretty short order.

That's the only metric I'm using; who is dysfunctional right now.
Simon_Jester wrote:A village can persist even if it has a village idiot. 200 individual homesteaders who have no social ties to one another will look at that same village idiot and consider him a creepy potential home invader and try to move away from him- because they are all isolated and fearful of their neighbors.
Maybe, but if you just can ban the village idiot after a show trial life gets better instantly.
Works for an online community. Driving out the unpopular people from your community in real life and threatening to kill them if they stay is... frowned on in real life. ;)
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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I thought this news article regarding Singapore early efforts at urbanisation might be interesting.
SAFETY; cleanliness; mobility; spaciousness; connectivity; equity. These, said former minister mentor Lee Kuan Yew in a 2013 interview with the Centre for Liveable Cities (CLC), are the ingredients of a good city, and Singapore has all of them today.



But 50 years ago, urban Singapore would have scored zero on that list.


"50 years ago, Singapore was a basket case of urbanisation gone wrong. Overcrowding, traffic congestion, flooding, crime, no proper sanitation - name any urban problem and we had it," says Khoo Teng Chye, executive director of the CLC, who served with the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) from 1976 to 1996, the last four years as its CEO and chief planner.


The creation of modern Singapore from that state of squalor took three decades and was driven by two key agencies: the Housing & Development Board (HDB) and later, the URA. The HDB was set up in 1960 with the mandate of properly housing the population, resettling thousands from the slums that predominated the urban landscape in those years. In 1964, to complement its work in public housing, it created the Urban Renewal Unit to redevelop the central parts of Singapore for commercial use. Later on, the unit was restructured first as a department, and then, in 1974, converted to an independent statutory board - the URA - with more manpower and funding to handle the huge job.


Bringing order to the city


Throughout the 1970s, the URA's work centred around implementing the first Concept Plan, which had been developed in 1971 with the help of the United Nations. The Concept Plan covered many areas, from population growth to town planning, road planning and transport systems, and the port and airport. It was a huge, multi-agency effort coordinated by the Ministry of National Development (MND).


"The Concept Plan required a lot of additional detailed and specific information for the purpose of implementation," recalls Liu Thai Ker, who headed the HDB and then the URA from the 1970s to the 1990s and is today known as the architect of urban Singapore for his work on public housing. From large-scale land development agencies like HDB and the Jurong Town Corporation, to water management agencies like the Public Utilities Board (PUB), each agency had to provide its plans to the MND in detail and declare their land use needs for incorporation into the Concept Plan.


"We were hungry for jobs and investors, but also very fortunate that our leaders avoided the approach of develop first and clean up later," says Mr Khoo. "To me, the important thing is that our transformation to a liveable and sustainable city is something that has been brought about because of good governance and an integrated approach to planning."


However, the Concept Plan called for the population to be moved outwards to new satellite towns surrounding the central water catchment area, connected by expressways and a MRT system, and for the vacated land to be developed into a financial and business centre. In practice, that meant relocating hundreds of thousands of residents, dozens of industries and hundreds of businesses.


Putting a roof over the population's head


"Some of the squatters would turn nasty and set their dogs on us. We carried umbrellas to defend ourselves; at worst we ran for it. Sometimes we even had to get the police to escort us," recalls Loh Yan Hui, the deputy chief executive officer of Surbana International Consultants, who joined the HDB's Building and Development Division as a civil engineer in the late 1970s.


Mr Loh and his colleagues were among the government officers at the forefront of the huge resettlement, and one of the challenges they faced was evicting squatters from rural settlements on the designated town sites. "Many of these squatters were very sentimental about their homes," says Mr Loh. "No matter how bad the living conditions were, they would bargain with us and ask for more time. We would compromise and clear other areas first, but inevitably we had to come back and make them leave."


Then, the HDB had to house a population of 1.7 million in as short a time as possible, and it had been given all the powers it needed to do so. The speed of building and resettlement ramped up through the 1960s. By the 1970s, HDB was building 50,000 units a year.


"We saw, in the rural areas of Singapore, a very dramatic transformation of the physical landscape over the course of just 5 to 10 years," says Mr Loh. "It succeeded because HDB took a multi-disciplinary approach and had been given a very strong mandate."


Each new town was built according to a template that hung in the HDB headquarters at Bukit Merah. The template dictated where arterial roads should be placed, how the land should be divided into neighbourhoods and precincts, and even where facilities such as schools should be placed.


"In the early 1970s, there was no clear definition of what a new town should be or what a neighbourhood entailed," says Dr Liu. "It was through our research, interviews and learning from other countries that we found out that for each new town to be highly self-sufficient, complete with essential facilities and amenities, we needed a population size of around 200,000 people."


Dr Liu and his fellow planners carried out similar research for neighbourhoods and even precincts, complete with input from estate officers, sociologists, and engineers. By the late 1980s, the last of the squatters would have been resettled, and HDB's quest to house the population would be complete.


Keeping Singapore flood-free


As Singapore was developing its new towns, it was also coping with flood problems. "In those days, when the rains came and coincided with the high tide, whole kampungs would be covered with water right up to the roofs," says Yap Kheng Guan, former senior consultant and senior director at the PUB. "Long stretches of road would be unusable for hours and even days until the floods subsided."


Mr Yap, who joined the Ministry of Environment's drainage department in 1975 as a civil engineer and spent the next 25 years working on Singapore's drainage, recalls that the ongoing urbanisation of those decades added to the flood problems. Each new development, whether public housing or industrial, increased the runoff into an already overloaded drainage system. Some of the most notoriously flood-prone areas were Bukit Timah, Geylang Serai and Potong Pasir.


"In the 1960s, Bukit Timah Road and Dunearn Road were the primary trunk roads - the expressways had not been built yet - and there were schools all along the area," Mr Yap says. "Each time it flooded, everything was disrupted. Something had to be done, but there was not enough money at the time. Singapore was just too poor."


One diversion canal had been built in 1969, but it was not until 1986 that construction began on a second canal. Like its predecessor, the second diversion canal was built with only basic equipment and methods. Lacking today's tunnelling and shoring technology, Mr Yap and his fellow engineers had to blast the four-kilometre canal from Swiss Cottage Estate to the Kallang River through soft and damp soil that hindered construction of the canal's concrete walls. In 1991 the canal was finally completed, and joined hundreds of other large and small drainage projects that reduced Singapore's flood-prone areas by 90 per cent.


The PUB had an entirely different water issue: that of ensuring a clean water supply to the population. In the 1960s, the waterways were notoriously polluted, such that the cleanup of the Singapore River and the Kallang Basin in the late 1970s and 1980s took 10 years and made the Anti-Pollution Unit famous.


As with the urban redevelopment effort, cleaning up the waterways took a massive cross-agency effort. Lee Ek Tieng, the former chairman of the PUB and one of the 10 civil servants involved in the cleanup, told the National Environment Agency in a 2011 dialogue that the success of the endeavour came from providing alternatives through infrastructure: building proper sanitation and garbage removal systems for both households and businesses.


In the early years, Singapore had only three local water sources: the MacRitchie Reservoir, the Kallang River Reservoir (later known as the Peirce Reservoir), and the Seletar Reservoir. The PUB spent the next three decades constructing 10 more reservoirs. Later, in the 1990s, the PUB's approach would expand in an attempt to make water integral not just to life but to lifestyles.


In those years, the PUB was also responsible for getting Singapore's electricity and gas supplies going. Pasir Panjang Power Station was one of the earliest power stations owned by the PUB, operating on 60 megawatt turbines installed by Hitachi in 1962 and 1964; later in the same decade, it would be joined by Jurong Power Station, running the same power generation system. Subsequent power stations also utilised Hitachi systems down to the 1990s, including the Seraya and Tuas Power Stations.


Turning points great and small


The modernisation and development of Singapore from the 1960s to the 1990s is marked by dozens of triumphs. Some, like the cleaning up of the Singapore River, have entered legend; others, like the closing of the last night soil station in 1987, went unnoticed except by the government officers involved in implementing the sewer system.


"There was no great fanfare, but the senior officers from the department lined up along the road that led to the night soil station to welcome back the last night soil wagon," says Tan Gee Paw, the former chairman of PUB who led the effort to clean up the Singapore River in the 1980s and is today known as the master architect of Singapore's water supply. In a 2014 interview with the CLC, he recounted: "It was a significant event which I clearly remember because it meant that every home, every block, every premise in Singapore has been sewered successfully. It was a massive effort that took 10 to 20 years to accomplish and we were probably the first in Asia to be able to do so."


For Dr Liu, who today chairs the CLC's Advisory Board, the turning points in public housing were marked every decade: in the 1960s, when the government committed itself to solving the housing shortage problem in the shortest possible time; in the late 1970s, when the housing shortage was finally brought under control; and in 1985, the year he feels that Singapore as a whole became a modern metropolis. "We can summarise our achievements then by the following four phrases: No Squatters, No Homeless, No Poverty Ghettos, No Ethnic Enclaves," he says.


To Mr Khoo, heading the URA in the 1990s, the turning point came when the various government agencies were finally able to step back from immediate action and begin institutionalising their work. "Up to the late 80s, we were very action-oriented. Our focus was on delivering the housing programmes as quickly and efficiently as possible," he explains. "It was only around the early 1990s, after infrastructure was no longer an urgent need, that we became more systematic: reviewing the Concept Plan and the Masterplan, restructuring the bureaucracy to place URA in charge of overall planning."


The 1990s was also when many other agencies were restructured and consolidated: for example, the Land Transport Authority was formed in 1995 from the merger of four other public sector entities that had previously worked separately on road building and maintenance and vehicle registration.


Ultimately, however, the very first turning point for Singapore's modernisation was that of political will: giving the agencies responsible for development all the support they needed, whether in terms of resources or legislation, at a time when the population was willing to accept the changes involved. As former minister mentor Lee said in his interview with CLC: "I'm pleased that we redeveloped the city when there was a chance to do it."


This is the first of a three-part series brought to you by Hitachi, in collaboration with Singapore Institute of Building Limited, and with resource assistance from Centre for Liveable Cities Singapore. The next part, Building a Nation: Today, will be published on Aug 5.














The port: Singapore's reason for existence



IN any story of modern Singapore, the port cannot be ignored. The city of Singapore was built around the port, and in the 1960s and 1970s, the port was still a key driver of Singapore's economy. Even as urbanisation went full speed, it was not neglected: one of the development agencies formed in the 1960s was the Port of Singapore Authority, established in 1964 to oversee the development of the port's infrastructure and ensure its continued viability.


PSA moved to fulfil its mandate in a very daring manner. In 1966, no container ships plied the trade routes to South-east Asia - but PSA took the gamble of building a container terminal at East Lagoon (today's Tanjong Pagar), and secured a $45 million loan from the World Bank to fund the construction. The idea, far fetched for its time, paid off handsomely. Six years later, the port opened to receive its first vessel: the MV Nihon, sailing from Rotterdam with a cargo of 300 containers. The stream of vessels that followed the Nihon would make Singapore the busiest container port in the world by 1985.


At the port's opening ceremony, then-minister for communications Yong Nyuk Lin told an international audience: "Singapore has therefore made a quantum leap today, into the container era ... able to deal right away with the larger, more sophisticated and latest type third-generation container ship with the official opening of its container port. This is as it should be."


And indeed the port's importance has remained over the years - more than four decades after PSA's bold decision.

Then-minister mentor Lee Kuan Yew, speaking at the inaugural Singapore Maritime Lecture in 2008, described the port as Singapore's reason for existence. "Singapore's raison d'etre was its port; Singapore must strive to remain a major hub port," he said.

- See more at: http://ifonlysingaporeans.blogspot.sg/2 ... 4ZZkN.dpuf

Its interesting that they didn't mention some of the very broad powers given, such as widespread eminent domain for the construction of highways and even stuff such as purchase of public land for 1 dollar.

There's some other interesting stuff in our history such as the anti-hawkering campaign, where a campaign to regulate food hawkering began and the ubiqitous food stalls such as those found in Bangkok were shifted to permanent premises such as hawker centres. This helped to promote public health as well as regulate sewage and food disposal.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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And for abandoned places..

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/lifestyl ... hdb-estate


IIRC, the reason for moving them away was due to transportation and population hubs.

There are other reasons for eminent domain of course.

http://www.h88.com.sg/directory/mrt/EW10/

Kallang MRT station used to have this old housing estate just right beside the station. There's still traces of that estate if you head down towards Geylang.

The entire area was abandoned and then revamped into a leisure mall with newer housing facillities in the last decade, as part of the new Masterplan towards riverfront living, where we seek to update and intergrate the previously expat properties along the Kallang River into a new commercial/housing zone.


Its....... a loss because there's some interesting history along the side that's been lost. Apart from personal memories of hanging in the Mac there and the National Stadium, they're also removing the PAP association building which was the site for Singapore first airport(Kallang Airport) and the last stand of the RAF during WW2.......

Of course, nothing could compare to the huge loss in our history that's emerging because the new Masterplan to upgrade our transportation arterial network involves tearing down huge chunks of Chinatown and early independence areas and include tearing up a graveyard that contains the burial of Singapore founding colonists.... You're talking about the gravesites of people from Lee Kuan Yew father and the early Chinese Towkays that founded Singapore, not to mention again WW2 history, where that and Adam Park formed the only remaining intact sites from WW2, where the British formed a last ditch defence against the Japanese, the area also formed one of the first POW camps before the major centralisation at Changi.

I went on a bullet hunt there last year and it was.....amazing......
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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I'll admit to having only read the 1st page, and just scanning the last 2 pages of this, but I'm surprised that no one has brought up the concept of Defensible Space. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensible_space_theory]Wiki[url] - though some sections of it seem pretty poor, the jist is there.

Inadvertently or not, you guys have discussed many of the principles of defensible space, and while I'm not sure whether there's evidence for it being very successful or not, following the tenants laid out by it seem to produce more desirable than not following them. The basics:

- Group people by age/life-stage and put them into housing together. Old people with old people, singles/young couples together, families together. Then don't intermix the groups in one building (or one area of one building), but mixing them into one larger multi-building development is ok.

-If possible, mix incomes somewhat; as has been mentioned here.

- Permit residents to surveil their space. This doesn't mean cameras, it means "I can easily see what's going on in/near my home without much effort." The method varies based on use-group: Old people like sitting around in large lobbies and will watch out of windows/doors if you let them; singles like apparent security (gates, guards) since they're working, studying, or out partying; families like to see out their kitchen/living room windows into the areas where their children play. These tenants also determine ideal building sizes - Older and younger people can live in high-rises, families should be limited to lower buildings. Pruitt Igoe's failure could largely be attributed to just this one problem, though it was contrary to every principle on this list (which may have been written in response to that failure, I don't remember).

- Create a sense of "ownership" of the space, through attractive design (or at least "doesn't clearly look like a project" design; it doesn't need to be overly costly either- a good 3-color paint job and more than 1 type of siding can do wonders.), progression of space from public to private (road, parked cars, sidewalk, yard, patio, building), and enabling some customization (giving tenants a deck, patio, unique door, etc.).

- Position the buildings near amenities, and ideally such that the public can follow a logical path through the space without disturbing the residents. This allows police & emergency services to traverse and ensure the well-being of the space without needing to enter areas the residents view as 'theirs,' or even bring cause for concern (if they're just using a normally trafficked route, they're not out-of-place).

- Break residents into small groups that share amenities. 4-6 families sharing a yard or garden area; maybe a few more singles sharing a corridor and laundry room. Elderly are less of an issue here IIRC (So pack them in like sardines! :twisted: ). Too many and no one can get to know each other, and decisions about how to customize or use a space are impossible to reach collectively.

Kicking people out who violate rules isn't a tenant from what I remember, but being willing to do that would help for sure. Even the specter of "you'll get kicked if you are a troublemaker" should put some needed pressure on and keep the property from deteriorating faster than needed. A carrot-and-stick approach of allowing community participation and encouraging communal activities would be better, but requires good staff and/or good residents.
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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Me2005 wrote:I'll admit to having only read the 1st page, and just scanning the last 2 pages of this, but I'm surprised that no one has brought up the concept of Defensible Space. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensible_space_theory]Wiki[url] - though some sections of it seem pretty poor, the jist is there.

Inadvertently or not, you guys have discussed many of the principles of defensible space, and while I'm not sure whether there's evidence for it being very successful or not, following the tenants laid out by it seem to produce more desirable than not following them. The basics:
Defensible space appears to be more targeted towards crime prevention though.....
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Re: How could you have made High Density public housing WORK

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If you can create a public-housing space that is secure from crime, that's the first big step towards making it work as a place for people to live.

Physical defects in the housing itself can be repaired or renovated, and are usually only an inconvenience. Lack of suitable jobs or businesses in the surrounding area can be fixed with zoning- it's more of a problem but it's solvable.

If criminals take hold in a public housing project, removing them without totally evacuating the project is almost impossible, and the area will quickly develops a horribly unsavory reputation that will dog it for decades.
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