Boeing 757 wrote:ryacko wrote:Alyrium Denryle wrote:So... slavery is OK provided you are nice to the slaves?
Slavery is okay as long as non-violent resistance is not punished, as that is the true marker of freedom.
No, asshole, it is not "okay." How would you like it if YOU were made a slave?
I would refuse to work, or rather go on strike.
Besides, slavery is unprofitable, most slave owners allowed slaves to work for others so that the slaves themselves may buy their own freedom, which often was more profitable for the owner then have the slaves do backbreaking labor all day.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:1) They are social creatures. Empathy is the backbone of complex social interactions, and orca grieve for their dead. There is nothing to indicate that they dont feel empathy in some form. Now, it may be the case they they cannot expand that to other species. It is certainly possible that their cognitive capacity is insufficient and too child-like to be able to extend their empathy that far. However considering how dolphins in general interact with people who they have accepted into their social group, that possibility seems remote.
No trade is required. Different groups of orca specialize on different food items. Some pods on seals, others on fish etc, depending on what is locally available and what other pods are eating (two different pods in the same area specialize on different prey to avoid competition). Eating of other fully sapient beings is generally rare.
Oh and um... you know, there is nothing saying we cannot just... you know, give the affected pods food should we eventually learn to speak orca and convince them that eating other dolphins is probably wrong. We could also stand to stop over-fishing so that they can more easily merge pods. I figure if things progress that far, we should be able to deal with that issue.
Have moral hazard you want to deal with? Find a fucking solution. The solution to moral hazard is not to complain about how hard it might be to deal with it. You be an adult, and you deal with it.
Way to miss the point. Orcas are not capable of civilization, or at least the basic requirement for civilization: trade and the specialization of labor. While you mention that they divvy up territory or resources among themselves peacefully, they possess no capacity to go beyond a hunter-gatherer civilization.
So we should start an Orca-welfare program to protect the victims of Orcas? At least people on unemployment insurance contributed to the unemployment fund when they were working.
It doesn't excuse humanity, but, how can I complain in my comfortable home typing away using electricity?
Wait, so because you live a cushy life, you have no right to say "hey, maybe it would be a good idea if we stop raping the oceans" and instead must simply assent to every fucked up things people do?
I am sitting here using electricity. Electricity that is 100% renewable. I also restrict my fish intake to sustainably farmed fish (read: lower trophic level freshwater fish that are not fed other fish) and well-regulated alaskan salmon. Other meat intake is limited to a fraction of the typical american diet. I drive a fuel efficient car.
With even that small amount of effort, I have managed to mitigate both my carbon footprint, and my impact on the world's oceans. It is not even the limit of the various things I do.
What you are is a contemptuous lazy moral coward, worthy of nothing but contempt.
I suppose the materials to make those renewable power sources are themselves renewable, biodegradable, and free of toxic industrial chemicals as well?
I suppose you are going to say that you are 20% more efficient or cleaner then others? The fact of the matter is that you are far more dangerous to the planet then someone in Bangladesh living off of ten dollars a day.
What you are is a high brow hypocrite, smug in your sense of self-superiority, and your own ethical values are superior to others.
Perhaps this is the one distinguishing point of humanity, the ability to form values, beliefs, and even die for them. Not like there are many Orcajihadists. In the end, it is a struggle between species.
Humanity is winning. And I am an apologist for humanity.