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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 07:10pm
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Jub wrote:
Flagg wrote:
So because idiots might be idiots we shouldn't protect children from possible harm? Do you know how weak your argument is? Hey, lets allow molesters to live around kids, too or else men without kids will be assumed sex offenders!


Molesters can already move into whatever neighborhood they like Flagg, or are you suggesting we restrict their movements and choices of homes now too?


Since we already do that it's a moot point. Maybe read up on subjects you're posting on, kiddo?

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Also, do you support such signage for all crimes? If you get caught speeding should the government hand you some orange spray paint and tell you to spray inch high letters on your car saying, "I'm a speeding douche bag" and forbid you to get within 5 lengths of another car? If you get a public disorder should you be made to wear a sign saying, "I'm a disruptive person, stay away from me"?

No.


Why not? Aren't released violent felons an equal risk to society? Why are they allowed to hand out candy to kids? Do you support letting murderers give candy to kids Flagg?

When murderers start having the kind of recidivism rates child molesters do, we can talk about it.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 07:11pm
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Jub wrote:
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Simon_Jester wrote:
But if you favor a law that says "no Halloween for sex offenders," you're hitting everyone, not just the complete drooling psychos.

Are you telling us we need a separate list of sex offenders to put on this law, Flagg? One that's shorter and harder to get onto, where we watch people closer and restrict their behavior more? I don't recall hearing you ever say that, but that's actually not such a bad idea. Who decides which sex offenders need to be on the list of extra-horrible people?

Or am I just putting words into your mouth here?

I do think the list should be more exclusive. Targeting pedophiles and repeat offenders. But it's not as of this moment, so we should just let pedophiles invite kids to their houses and give them candy, apparently. God forbid someone somewhere might have an easily quashed rumor spread about them. As if that's even likely.


Yes, yes we should. We should because if parents are being responsible they're with their kids as they go door to door and not even the craziest people will try to drag away a kid while their parents are standing behind them. You have more to fear from a pedo/rapist wearing a costume and pulling people into a van, and frankly that is way down my list of things to fear.

Besides, all those guns that Americans are carrying should be able to blow a rapist away before he can do much. Right?

Stop living in this paranoid action movie PSA world and start living in reality.

Umm, what? That's so out there and all over the place I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say. I'm not sure you do, either.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 09:23pm
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Jub wrote:
Flagg wrote:
So because idiots might be idiots we shouldn't protect children from possible harm? Do you know how weak your argument is? Hey, lets allow molesters to live around kids, too or else men without kids will be assumed sex offenders!


Molesters can already move into whatever neighborhood they like Flagg, or are you suggesting we restrict their movements and choices of homes now too?

How about interning them into an internment camp, to be established at 5001 Highway 395, Independence, CA?

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 09:33pm
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amigocabal wrote:
Jub wrote:
Flagg wrote:
So because idiots might be idiots we shouldn't protect children from possible harm? Do you know how weak your argument is? Hey, lets allow molesters to live around kids, too or else men without kids will be assumed sex offenders!


Molesters can already move into whatever neighborhood they like Flagg, or are you suggesting we restrict their movements and choices of homes now too?

How about interning them into an internment camp, to be established at 5001 Highway 395, Independence, CA?

Hello illiterate person. Did you miss where I stated that they already fucking restrict where they can and cannot live?



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 09:52pm
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Flagg wrote:
Since we already do that it's a moot point. Maybe read up on subjects you're posting on, kiddo?


Wow, the US is a shittier place than I realized. You don't even try to support people that need it because it's easier to just shun them. Fuck the US and fuck anybody that thinks they're doing it right. That includes you Flagg.

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When murderers start having the kind of recidivism rates child molesters do, we can talk about it.


Show me the numbers Flagg. How many rapists put of the candy bowl for a bit and then pull a few kids inside? More to the point, why aren't these kids being watched by a responsible adult who could prevent this?

Flagg wrote:
I do think the list should be more exclusive. Targeting pedophiles and repeat offenders. But it's not as of this moment, so we should just let pedophiles invite kids to their houses and give them candy, apparently. God forbid someone somewhere might have an easily quashed rumor spread about them. As if that's even likely.


The rest of the world doesn't feel the need for such laws and even the US, paranoid as it is, has done just fine without them for ages; why is it such a problem now? Also, where does the line get drawn. Should we only make them have the sign out for Halloween, or is this something that they should have out all year round? What about if they go out on Halloween, should they have to carry the sign with them?

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 10:06pm
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Flagg wrote:
amigocabal wrote:
Jub wrote:
Molesters can already move into whatever neighborhood they like Flagg, or are you suggesting we restrict their movements and choices of homes now too?

How about interning them into an internment camp, to be established at 5001 Highway 395, Independence, CA?

Hello illiterate person. Did you miss where I stated that they already fucking restrict where they can and cannot live?

Yes, i did.

I stated we should restrict them further.
Jub wrote:
Fuck the US and fuck anybody that thinks they're doing it right. That includes you Flagg.

How about stopping sex offenders from fucking people without their consent?

5001 Highway 395, Independence, CA sounds olike a good place to intern them all.

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 10:11pm
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amigocabal wrote:
How about stopping sex offenders from fucking people without their consent?

5001 Highway 395, Independence, CA sounds olike a good place to intern them all.


Except that most people on sex offender lists have done no such thing.

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 10:25pm
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Flagg wrote:
amigocabal wrote:
Hello illiterate person. Did you miss where I stated that they already fucking restrict where they can and cannot live?

Yes, i did.

I stated we should restrict them further.
Oh yea, because it's working out soooo well right now.....
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It doesn’t help that sex offenders are allowed to list themselves as transients, which means they can live anywhere.

“We know roughly where they hang out, but the public doesn’t know where they are,” Waltman said.

The number of sex offenders declaring themselves transients has jumped since the passing of Jessica’s Law, said Gerry Blasingame, vice chair of the California Coalition on Sexual Offending and member of the California Sex Offender Management Board. The board was set up by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to oversee the state’s sex offender policy.

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 10:32pm
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Jub wrote:
Wow, the US is a shittier place than I realized. You don't even try to support people that need it because it's easier to just shun them. Fuck the US and fuck anybody that thinks they're doing it right. That includes you Flagg.


Please don't take Flagg's knee-jerk black-and-white fallacies as representative of an entire country.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 10:37pm
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Ziggy Stardust wrote:
Jub wrote:
Wow, the US is a shittier place than I realized. You don't even try to support people that need it because it's easier to just shun them. Fuck the US and fuck anybody that thinks they're doing it right. That includes you Flagg.


Please don't take Flagg's knee-jerk black-and-white fallacies as representative of an entire country.


I was going by the fact that, at least some US states, restrict where 'sex offenders' can and can't live. Shouldn't they be free to reintegrate into society once they serve their time or is justice being served by keeping tabs on them at all times? If they aren't ready to be released when their sentences are up then the laws aren't working correctly, if they are then keeping tabs on them is pointless.

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 10:47pm
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Technically it's not states most of time, it's towns or counties. And they do it with the thinly vailed purpose of making it so Offenders can't live anywhere in the town.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 11:08pm
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Dominus Atheos wrote:
Technically it's not states most of time, it's towns or counties. And they do it with the thinly vailed purpose of making it so Offenders can't live anywhere in the town.

Which I disagree with as it just forces them to move into unincorporated areas. But if it's within reasonable distances of playgrounds, schools, and school bus stops I don't care. It's not like we are restricting where people who have done nothing wrong can live, it's targeted at convicted pedophiles and serial predators. I cry at night for their struggles.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 11:10pm
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TheFeniX wrote:
Flagg wrote:
amigocabal wrote:
Hello illiterate person. Did you miss where I stated that they already fucking restrict where they can and cannot live?

Yes, i did.

I stated we should restrict them further.
Oh yea, because it's working out soooo well right now.....
Quote:
It doesn’t help that sex offenders are allowed to list themselves as transients, which means they can live anywhere.

“We know roughly where they hang out, but the public doesn’t know where they are,” Waltman said.

The number of sex offenders declaring themselves transients has jumped since the passing of Jessica’s Law, said Gerry Blasingame, vice chair of the California Coalition on Sexual Offending and member of the California Sex Offender Management Board. The board was set up by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to oversee the state’s sex offender policy.

That's why you don't allow them to declare themselves as transients. If they cannot find housing, then the government should do it for them. Not in prisons or psych wards, either. If the government is going to restrict where someone like that can live, then they have a responsibility for making sure there are places they can.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 11:11pm
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Ziggy Stardust wrote:
Jub wrote:
Wow, the US is a shittier place than I realized. You don't even try to support people that need it because it's easier to just shun them. Fuck the US and fuck anybody that thinks they're doing it right. That includes you Flagg.


Please don't take Flagg's knee-jerk black-and-white fallacies as representative of an entire country.

Nice ad hominem motherfucker. Get the fuck out of the thread.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 11:24pm
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Flagg wrote:
Dominus Atheos wrote:
Technically it's not states most of time, it's towns or counties. And they do it with the thinly vailed purpose of making it so Offenders can't live anywhere in the town.

Which I disagree with as it just forces them to move into unincorporated areas. But if it's within reasonable distances of playgrounds, schools, and school bus stops I don't care. It's not like we are restricting where people who have done nothing wrong can live, it's targeted at convicted pedophiles and serial predators. I cry at night for their struggles.


It's not very well targeted then is it? If they want it aimed at pedophiles and serial predators maybe they should actually make sure the law hits them and not kids convicted of sexting or some guy who took a leak in public.

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 11:25pm
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Jub wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Dominus Atheos wrote:
Technically it's not states most of time, it's towns or counties. And they do it with the thinly vailed purpose of making it so Offenders can't live anywhere in the town.

Which I disagree with as it just forces them to move into unincorporated areas. But if it's within reasonable distances of playgrounds, schools, and school bus stops I don't care. It's not like we are restricting where people who have done nothing wrong can live, it's targeted at convicted pedophiles and serial predators. I cry at night for their struggles.


It's not very well targeted then is it? If they want it aimed at pedophiles and serial predators maybe they should actually make sure the law hits them and not kids convicted of sexting or some guy who took a leak in public.

If you wanna talk about that then start a thread about it. I've already said I don't like the registry laws as they exist, so fuck off.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 11:32pm
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Flagg wrote:
If you wanna talk about that then start a thread about it. I've already said I don't like the registry laws as they exist, so fuck off.


Yet you support laws that use there terrible lists and don't care that it effects people that haven't done anything worthy of this level of punishment. You've also yet to post anything that shows why these sorts of laws are even needed. Care to post evidence that the people that this law would effect are a danger?

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 11:35pm
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Jub wrote:
Flagg wrote:
If you wanna talk about that then start a thread about it. I've already said I don't like the registry laws as they exist, so fuck off.


Yet you support laws that use there terrible lists and don't care that it effects people that haven't done anything worthy of this level of punishment. You've also yet to post anything that shows why these sorts of laws are even needed. Care to post evidence that the people that this law would effect are a danger?

Yeah. THEY ARE CONVICTED SEXUAL PREDATORS. You may not think they are a danger. I invite you to have lots of kids with whatever animal will mate with you and move in next door to one.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 11:37pm
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Jub wrote:
I was going by the fact that, at least some US states, restrict where 'sex offenders' can and can't live. Shouldn't they be free to reintegrate into society once they serve their time or is justice being served by keeping tabs on them at all times? If they aren't ready to be released when their sentences are up then the laws aren't working correctly, if they are then keeping tabs on them is pointless.
I don't know of any first-world country that refuses to restrict the rights of convicted felons even after release. You'd find few people who would argue violent felons should be able to legally purchase firearms or that they should be able to take a job as a law-enforcement officer. The problem is when knee-jerk and extremely vague laws start casting wide nets to restrict rights and/or privileges with no benefits to society. "Candy Laws" do not work. They accomplish nothing. Laws designed to tell sex offenders where they can and can't live only serve to push offenders "off the grid" and make them almost impossible to track. These laws aren't just useless, they're actively dangerous.

Flagg wrote:
Which I disagree with as it just forces them to move into unincorporated areas. But if it's within reasonable distances of playgrounds, schools, and school bus stops I don't care. It's not like we are restricting where people who have done nothing wrong can live, it's targeted at convicted pedophiles and serial predators. I cry at night for their struggles.
Yea, because sex offenders can't own cars and drive to these locations. Fuck, Texas doesn't even have a law to keep them from hanging out at playgrounds. Other states pass laws banning sex offenders from even using the library. It's dumb. The ones trying to reintegrate get fucked because they are essentially second-class citizens (even more so than "regular" felons). The ones looking to get out and go back to violence find it easier because listing yourself as homeless isn't against the law.

Just keep pushing them out until they're someone else's problem.
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Miami Beach wanted to keep sex offenders as far away from children as possible. So officials there came up with a plan that, on the surface, would seem to do the trick. An ordinance passed last year makes it unlawful for those convicted of a serious sex crime to live within 2,500 feet of any school, public bus stop, day care center, park, playground "or other place where children regularly congregate." The city could have saved some ink by simply writing: "No sexual predators allowed in Miami Beach." That, in essence, is the effect of the law. "The whole city is basically covered by this," says Mayor David Dermer. "As far as I'm concerned, it worked well."

When other cities heard about it, Dermer's office was deluged with calls. And so began the domino effect: As towns began to realize that neighboring jurisdictions might enact strict sex-offender residence rules, they scrambled to do the same, not wanting to be without an ordinance or have a relatively lax law that could serve as a welcome. More than 50 Florida municipalities, and 20 others from around the country, requested a copy of the ordinance from Miami Beach.
Work in the city? Fuck you. you don't deserve a job. Now go be jobless and homeless out in the sticks with no incentive to try and reintegrate. Hey, there's also less cops around in case you wanted to assault more people.
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Iowa's law, for example, has made as much as 90 percent of the land area in major cities off-limits to sex offenders. As a result, 21 sex offenders wound up grouped together in a down-at-the-heels motel outside of Cedar Rapids this spring. Others have resorted to living in their vehicles--essentially homeless and hopeless, which only puts more pressure on them to re-offend, criminal justice officials note.
But making sure they can't live near me makes me safer.... or something. But hey, there's nothing morally bankrupt by pushing "serial predators" out into the unincorporated areas so that any crimes they do commit will have fewer resources available to catch them with.....

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-08 11:44pm
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Flagg wrote:
Jub wrote:
Flagg wrote:
If you wanna talk about that then start a thread about it. I've already said I don't like the registry laws as they exist, so fuck off.


Yet you support laws that use there terrible lists and don't care that it effects people that haven't done anything worthy of this level of punishment. You've also yet to post anything that shows why these sorts of laws are even needed. Care to post evidence that the people that this law would effect are a danger?

Yeah. THEY ARE CONVICTED SEXUAL PREDATORS. You may not think they are a danger. I invite you to have lots of kids with whatever animal will mate with you and move in next door to one.


Show me the statistics that prove that steps such as these will help anything, or shut up and sit down.

TheFeniX wrote:
Jub wrote:
I was going by the fact that, at least some US states, restrict where 'sex offenders' can and can't live. Shouldn't they be free to reintegrate into society once they serve their time or is justice being served by keeping tabs on them at all times? If they aren't ready to be released when their sentences are up then the laws aren't working correctly, if they are then keeping tabs on them is pointless.


I don't know of any first-world country that refuses to restrict the rights of convicted felons even after release. You'd find few people who would argue violent felons should be able to legally purchase firearms or that they should be able to take a job as a law-enforcement officer. The problem is when knee-jerk and extremely vague laws start casting wide nets to restrict rights and/or privileges with no benefits to society. "Candy Laws" do not work. They accomplish nothing. Laws designed to tell sex offenders where they can and can't live only serve to push offenders "off the grid" and make them almost impossible to track. These laws aren't just useless, they're actively dangerous.


Guns are a luxury, one that I've argued that most people don't need. Access to housing is an entirely different story, but you already seem to understand this so there isn't much point to carrying on about it.

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-09 02:30am
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TheFeniX wrote:
Work in the city? Fuck you. you don't deserve a job. Now go be jobless and homeless out in the sticks with no incentive to try and reintegrate. Hey, there's also less cops around in case you wanted to assault more people.

Indeed. The best thing to do with sex offenders is to intern them in a camp somewhere.

I hear that 5001 Highway 395, Independence, CA is a great location for an internment camp.

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-09 04:06am
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Dude, everyone's ignoring your repetitive address-posting because restricting where sex offenders can live is in no way equivalent to interning someone for being of Japanese descent. People might be more inclined to take you seriously if your argument wasn't silly on its face.

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-09 05:41am
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Flagg wrote:
So because idiots might be idiots we shouldn't protect children from possible harm?


I don't think it's been adequately demonstrated that this will protect children from harm. Sex offenders against children are overwhelmingly more likely to be people already known to the child and in a position of trust with the family.

A law like this completely misses the actual dangers to children and, in fact, probably does more harm than good since "stranger danger" paranoia blinds people to the actual likely dangers.

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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-09 05:50am
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I don't think this is unintentional. People don't want to think that the biggest threat to their children is probably themselves, or their creepy uncle or their best friends parents or whatever. They want to make a lot of noise about 'protecting' them from the far less likely wandering child molester, because internalising the idea that child abuse is overwhelmingly from people who know the children already is just too terrible.



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 Post subject: Re: No Halloween For Sex Offenders? PostPosted: 2012-10-09 06:08am
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Simon_Jester wrote:
Are you telling us we need a separate list of sex offenders to put on this law, Flagg? One that's shorter and harder to get onto, where we watch people closer and restrict their behavior more? I don't recall hearing you ever say that, but that's actually not such a bad idea. Who decides which sex offenders need to be on the list of extra-horrible people?

You know, I am not opposed to extra restrictions to people courts deem non-resocialized and/or high threat, but such a list needs to be highly codified, easy to appeal and only used in really bad cases, not blanket sign to slap on anyone who did anything fundie nut might think being slightly indecent. My stance is similar to §5 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights - 'No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment', forcing to put Halloween signs or else is IMHO both idiotic and arguably degrading.

Flagg wrote:
God forbid someone somewhere might have an easily quashed rumor spread about them. As if that's even likely.

You... really think being thought of as a sex offender by uninformed, especially child sex offender is harmless and easily quashed rumour? Say what? :wtf:

Quote:
I don't think it's been adequately demonstrated that this will protect children from harm. Sex offenders against children are overwhelmingly more likely to be people already known to the child and in a position of trust with the family.

A law like this completely misses the actual dangers to children and, in fact, probably does more harm than good since "stranger danger" paranoia blinds people to the actual likely dangers.

Yeah, these Halloween cards are really going to stop someone from going to next room. Of course :roll:

Really, what this law says could have been replaced by liberal application of branding iron, would make little difference in effectiveness and effect to targeted people.

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