&*$%ing outrage

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-08-20 03:54pm

I wasn't positive whether or not to share this with this board since you all don't know me well, but I figured: what the hell.

I got back from visiting a friend of mine yesterday. Long story short, at the local mall where we were (me, my wife, him, his wife, their eight-year old kid), a smallish pile of well-dressed people were wandering down the food court, handing out papers. Turns out they were Christians (Begin Twilight Zone music here). Well, us adults told this smiling quartet we weren't interested in hearing what they had to say. Ordinarily this would be enough. Unfortunately, one of the gents, a little peeved, half-bent over to the little boy, held out a pamphlet, and said, quote: "Maybe you would like this to read? It's important stuff about God that will save you from the wickedness of people who won't tell you the truth."

Pause right there at the 'insult the parents to the kid' moment.

At that point, my options seemed to be:
1) Unleash ancient ninja Fist-To-Nuts style.
2) Tell them to take a tanning session in a blast furnace.

However, I chose to leave it in the hands of the parents. Their response was a collective look of shock and disbelief, followed by quietly letting their boy take the paper (not really sure why I bet, but he's a kid and he was being polite), and watching the religious people wander off, clucking their tongues at the 'irresponsible parents'. I had it out with him later, but felt bad for doing so. He has to raise his kids how he likes, but to have himself and his wife called 'wicked' and 'irresponsible parents' in front of their kid and friends... I haven't really decided if I would have, or should have, handled it differently. Least I got my rant off my chest. Tell me, however, that it's morally okay to do that and I'll tell you to reboot yourself, put politely. Any comments?

ArthurDent · Post by **ArthurDent** » 2002-08-20 03:58pm

Seems to me that's the opposite of what Christians are supposed to be. I wouldn't have allowed my child to take anything from them and they would have received a verbal lashing from me.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-20 04:03pm

I would have gone with head to knee followed by whillering monkey throw of the nearest high place but then thats just me

Yeah thats about as bad as you can go short of them chasing after you with-pitchforks and Torches

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2002-08-20 04:05pm

There's not a whole lot you could have done. If I'd been the parents, I'd have been sorely tempted to tickle their kidneys with a pair of steel toed boots, as you were, but I'm not the boy's parents and neither are you, and it's their responsiblity to handle the situation, not you. Is it possible the parents didn't react because they were afraid if they didn't completely restrain themselves, they'd go apeshit and get arrested? That's always something to consider.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-08-20 04:11pm

I don't disagree. He said he was upset that they would do that, but didn't really know what they should do in the presence of their kid. Do they set an example by remaining polite, or by standing up for what they believe in?

Me now, I just wanted to know what people would do as the spectator to that. I guess 'let the parents make the call' is it.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-08-20 04:26pm

If I were the kids parent I would have told them to go play in a mine field somewhere, I'm christian and I HATE people that say stuff like that.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-20 04:30pm

If I had been the kids parents I would have taken the pamplet and likley stuffed it down the guys throat, that or eat it myself and challenge him to a duel to the death for sulling my wife honor in my best Scottish accient

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-08-20 06:08pm

I would have ripped up the pamphlet in front of them and thrown the paper in their faces. Then told them not to ever do that again. After that I would have explained to the child about how some christians are crazy and think that some imaginary friend will save them no matter what they do.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-08-20 06:39pm

quote: "Maybe you would like this to read? It's important stuff about God that will save you from the wickedness of people who won't tell you the truth."

This, ladies and gentlemen, is bait. Talking with this whacko (rationally or otherwise) is EXACTLY what he wants... negative attention is still attention, after all. It's actually a good application of some of the debating points on this site: the most likely responses you'd give would either be "I am NOT a bad parent!" or "don't try and stuff your views down my kid's throat!" which would only open the door to a lengthy religious harangue. Either one puts you on the defensive from the very first thing you say. What you want to do is address the rudeness itself, ie. "We told you once that we're not interested, so stop harassing my son or I'll get security to toss you out." (Incidental note: malls are private property- they are well within their rights to throw people out who are harassing other shoppers.)

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-08-21 02:48am

You might want to keep the pamphlet. It'll come in handy as a firestarter. Once, I got a pamphlet in Atlantic City from some religous guy. He was sane though.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-21 03:12am

Tear it up, and then tell him that he can give you son a pamphlet if he gives you his home address and agrees to let you have a frank discussion about the evils of the Bible with his children. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » 2002-08-21 04:21am

What I'd do (if I had a son)...

I'd let my son accept the pamphlet if he wanted to, and then sit down with him later, and analyze it with him, to show him how moronic it was.

oberon · Post by **oberon** » 2002-08-21 09:43am

Observer got it right, the rest of you fail. If you are earnest about raising your kid to be a decent, mature adult, you don't react to things like that. The only other thing I would say is that, later, sitting and analyzing the document with your kid may perhaps demonstrate that the document has some importance. I would not stress any aspect of the pamphlet to the child were I a parent. I would simply say, "I don't appreciate/believe/care about the document, but you can read it if you want." The guy gave it to him, and it's his to do with as he pleases. People have to learn critical thinking somehow, and none of these responses seem desirable. The most I would say later is something like "cluck, that guy doesn't know us. Whatever." Your responses swing from one extreme to the other, yet all showing that this document has more weight than it really does. And really, if you want your kid to grow up to be a thinker, do you think making your family witness a violent act that gets you tossed in jail is going to impart a good attitude? What about that "I'll call security" thing? That is just overreacting and smacks of being a petty tattle-tale. I can understand "you know, I felt like killing that guy" but come on, let's not make it a chorus.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-21 10:04am

If you are earnest about raising your kid to be a decent, mature adult, you don't react to things like that. The only other thing I would say is that, later, sitting and analyzing the document with your kid may perhaps demonstrate that the document has some importance. I would not stress any aspect of the pamphlet to the child were I a parent. I would simply say, "I don't appreciate/believe/care about the document, but you can read it if you want." The guy gave it to him, and it's his to do with as he pleases. People have to learn critical thinking somehow, and none of these responses seem desirable. The most I would say later is something like "cluck, that guy doesn't know us. Whatever." Your responses swing from one extreme to the other, yet all showing that this document has more weight than it really does. And really, if you want your kid to grow up to be a thinker, do you think making your family witness a violent act that gets you tossed in jail is going to impart a good attitude? What about that "I'll call security" thing?

This statment smacks strongly of doormatism(And yes thats not a word)
From what I read of what you said... Are you the kind of person who I can poke you in the eye in real life and you won't say or do anything?
You don't see going to secuirty as being a possbility(Big bad law don't trush em!), you don't want to react to what he said(A grave insult to your family) and generaly seem like you want to excuse the phrase, Bend over and take it

Kids left to thier own devices generaly do or do not learn and any kid could see that the man just called daddy a bad guy and daddy did not do anything

What does this say to your kid?

Meghel · Post by **Meghel** » 2002-08-21 10:40am

As a kid, I had that with Jehova's Witnesses once. I was young and they tried to give me a paper.

Now I am Christian, and so are my parents.

My mother comes out, grabs me, pulls me into the house and smacks the door in the face of the Jehova's Witness.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I am a Christian, I would not take much offence and would likely talk for a minute or so.

This is what I would do in my place.

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However, If I were in your place or his parents place, there would have been some serious shouting and breaking of bones!

At least, that is what I would do with Jehova's Witnesses.

Meghel

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-08-21 12:00pm

I have a lot of friends who are really religious, and when a Jehova's Witness knocks on their door, they invite them in for a cup of coffee and begin trying to convert them. The record has been 3 hours before they left the house, after that they tend not to come back.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-08-21 12:14pm

One question I keep asking myself is whether people who declare it their moral obligation to profess their faith, even to the point of annoying and insulting others, actually HAVE any sort of socially acceptable moral code at all. If morals are a guideline to tell us what to and not to do to other people, what does this kind of behaviour say about the morals of religionists who have no respect for other people? What does this mean they would do to unbelievers if they could?

Religionist: Well, I'm going to tie you to this brick and shove a knife through your heart. God told Abraham to do it to his kid to prove his faith, so I'll do it to you to prove mine.
You: What the hell????
Religionist: Ooh...psyke. Gotcha. Actually I'll spare you now. See how merciful is God? I *would* have killed you in His name, because I have faith that his will is to do good. That's what makes me a good person. I live on the end of this leash that God holds, and if he says 'kill', there I am. Isn't he worth worshipping now that you know he *doesn't* actually authorize your death through me, and in fact loves you too much to have me kill you unless you say he doesn't exist?
You: Ha! Ancient ninja Fist-To-Nuts style!
Religionist: Aaaggh!!

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-08-21 01:16pm

Why do some religious people feel the need to hawk their religion around like a cheap whore? It's pathetic.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-08-21 02:15pm

Crazy_Vasey wrote:Why do some religious people feel the need to hawk their religion around like a cheap whore? It's pathetic.

Unfortunately in some religions it's actually part of the religion that you are supposed to convert others.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-08-21 04:44pm

Tsyroc wrote:
Crazy_Vasey wrote:Why do some religious people feel the need to hawk their religion around like a cheap whore? It's pathetic.
Unfortunately in some religions it's actually part of the religion that you are supposed to convert others.

Now that is a scary thought....

oberon · Post by **oberon** » 2002-08-21 06:13pm

Mr. Bean, you are right, "doormatism" is not a word. Not reacting is not "bending over and taking it." It's simply not reacting. Just because I didn't say it explicitly, doesn't mean you can't say "I said leave us alone" but that is beside the point. You read too much into it, which leads to some strawmen. I am in favor of not reacting, because think of how it plays out: the guy gives the kid the tract and goes away. No muss, no fuss. When you get older, this might make more sense to you

If this outcome ever came into some doubt some other way, then it's time to think about different reactions. For instance, if the guy doesn't simply go away. Besides, look at the alternatives you seem to be favoring--beat the guy up (and look like a real asshole, either by hurting someone and going to jail, or by getting your ass kicked) in front of your family, or make a big deal out of it later. No, you are right, it's much better to be passive-aggressive about it and teach the kid that this paper means so much to you. You can read all this into it, or you can simply not react--just give the guy a look, let the kid take the tract, and leave it at that until or unless the kid asks. No more, no less.

Last time saying it, because I'm old enough to know what I would do. When you reform your life after being a violent jailbird, let me know if you still feel the same way...

oberon · Post by **oberon** » 2002-08-21 06:16pm

And yes, bible thumpers drive me crazy. I would have to work at controlling myself, especially in this scenario, but I tell you, it can be done!

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-21 07:09pm

Heh well the thing is most kids would pick up on the fact that guy just called Daddy an A-hole(bascily) and daddy did nothing

Of if it was a kid raised by me he would propmetly indroduce Mr-Fundie to the Acient Nnija fist to reigion below the belt followed by Judo Throw into near-by fountian because Daddy taught Junior that untill your 16 you can get away with quite a bit

oberon · Post by **oberon** » 2002-08-21 07:23pm

Yeah, well one thing adults try to teach their children, at least if they're not total trash, is to be able to ignore things. This is not an outrage, and it's definitely not a threat. You should be secure enough in the function of your own personality not to take offense at certain things. Besides, if parents fought with everyone who implied they were inadequate parents... And also, I wouldn't want to teach my children that anytime someone says something "bad" that it's OK to tell the po-pos. That's dumb.

Your response was more muted than I'd anticipated. I was all ready to go with "if having to support your family isn't enough to keep you out of trouble..." along "If the mere presence of your family isn't enough to keep you from turning into a raging jackass..."

You just gotta deal. Besides, fighting is work and I'm lazy. Now, I like violent imagery, so we could change this to "Hey kid, your Daddy's a pagan pervert. You wanna come with me?"