The Devil

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-09-01 01:37am

Lusankya wrote:
Are you alright? Naked? there was no such thing as naked.The tree of knowledge is what made that come into being.Sin is what brought the concept of naked.Sin made naked, it wasn't in the original equation.
So you're saying that because we hadn't discovered that apples were edible yet, then we were clothed?

You're being silly, since you know the wickedness of men and the original sin of Adam and EVE, make this wrong.The concept of morals exist now due to sin.
So we are differentiated from animals because of the original sin... but we were better than animals to begin with, so therefore we were already differentiated from them, so therefore we were created with morals, so therefore God had no cause to chuck us out from the garden of eden, since nothing really changed us, so therefore we must still be in the garden of eden.

Fine by me.

Created with morals? We have souls animals do not. Morals came into existence as soon as knowledge of good and evil did.If you don't understand or think I'm wrong, that's cool.

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-09-01 01:53am

Durandal wrote:
the tree apple thing never made much sense to me.
gods suposed to be omnipontent.
he doesn't want use to eat from said tree so why did he A make the tree in the first place or B not just stop humanity getting to it?

seems like a set up to me.
It's even better than that. If God created Adam and Eve with no knowledge of good and evil, and obeying God equates to good, then Adam and Eve could not have known that disobeying him was evil.

So, in reality, he punished them for not obeying him. It had nothing to do with good or evil.

You guys figured it out.God gave them a commandment that they were to follow.They already knew the concept of dis-obedience and they knew they were to listen.Simple dis-obedience is not evil, but leads to evil.

Durandal* you're starting to get the big picture.God sees all and knows man's decisions before they are made.Free will comes in to play.Since we are given free will, it is God's job (knowing what we're going to do) to present obstacles in life so we can make decisions.In presenting these obstacles, God guides us into making decisions that will benefit us and God.The thing is, we have to want to ride God's rollercoaster of life.In the end, you'll be as a new being full of peace, love, joy, and happiness.That's how free will works.It is not like God didn't know the serpent was in the tree and that eve was going to dis-obey.Remember, God's always a step ahead of us.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-01 01:58am

Priesto wrote:
Durandal wrote:So, in reality, he punished them for not obeying him. It had nothing to do with good or evil.
You guys figured it out.God gave them a commandment that they were to follow.They already knew the concept of dis-obedience and they knew they were to listen.Simple dis-obedience is not evil, but leads to evil.

Yes, disobedience leads to evil because God will commit it when he visits horrible punishment upon us. Why? Because he's an authoritarian asshole. Obviously, you are too fucking stupid to get the point.

Durandal* you're starting to get the big picture.God sees all and knows man's decisions before they are made. Free will comes in to play. Since we are given free will, it is God's job (knowing what we're going to do) to present obstacles in life so we can make decisions. In presenting these obstacles, God guides us into making decisions that will benefit us and God. The thing is, we have to want to ride God's rollercoaster of life. In the end, you'll be as a new being full of peace, love, joy, and happiness. That's how free will works.It is not like God didn't know the serpent was in the tree and that eve was going to dis-obey. Remember, God's always a step ahead of us.

You are such a fucking moron. All you did was restate Durandal's point and try to make it sound like a good thing. Don't you get it? You just admitted that according to your silly superstition, your imaginary invisible man in the sky knows every decision you are going to make before you make it, yet you insist that we have free will and worse yet, you feel it is right to punish us for the decisions that we will make while we are on his pre-determined course.

People bring up serious contradictions in your belief system and you simply blather on as if nothing happened, proudly stating the inconsistent beliefs again and trying to pretend you understand what just happened.

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-09-01 02:07am

God doesn't force us to do good, so that's where the free will exists.You have the free will to curse me out and be on the internet.God does everything he can, but only we make the decision.We pre- determine if we want to, or we can let God determine, the choice is yours.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-09-01 02:17am

Priesto wrote:God doesn't force us to do good, so that's where the free will exists.You have the free will to curse me out and be on the internet.God does everything he can, but only we make the decision.We pre- determine if we want to, or we can let God determine, the choice is yours.

Priesto, the simplistic thought process about God and free will always bug me, if God indeed loves us why create thee feelings in us to do evil, if we lived in perfect harmony in the garden, and by eating the fruit we fell from grace and became nasty people, the why does God allow it?

If he is omnipotent and all powerful why can he not reverse what a stinking piece of fruit did to us, why not close our minds to the knowdlege of good and evil? In other words, why make us suffer?

Does he get kicks from watching his pathetic creations fumble about violating his will? Does he enjoy creating the commandement not to steal and create poor people? Does he enjoy watching us struggle against our very natures in order to please him?

Does he like it more that we are now all suffering, many of us bound to burn for all eternity because he would not raise his hand against the force that made us so? Would he not erase the very knowledege that dooms us? Was our loyalty and love in the garden not enough for this god? Does he also need to see us burn?

Be careful how you answer, for the trite and common answer is not enough in this instance, we're talking about a god that is intentionally allowing us to suffer and doesn't seem to care. Why does he want us to worship him in that case...to prove our love? Why? My daughter doesn't have to prove her love to me, does that make me more loving than god?

PLease, I REALLY need to hear the answer to this one

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-09-01 02:39am

Stravo wrote:
Priesto wrote:God doesn't force us to do good, so that's where the free will exists.You have the free will to curse me out and be on the internet.God does everything he can, but only we make the decision.We pre- determine if we want to, or we can let God determine, the choice is yours.
Priesto, the simplistic thought process about God and free will always bug me, if God indeed loves us why create thee feelings in us to do evil, if we lived in perfect harmony in the garden, and by eating the fruit we fell from grace and became nasty people, the why does God allow it?

If he is omnipotent and all powerful why can he not reverse what a stinking piece of fruit did to us, why not close our minds to the knowdlege of good and evil? In other words, why make us suffer?

Does he get kicks from watching his pathetic creations fumble about violating his will? Does he enjoy creating the commandement not to steal and create poor people? Does he enjoy watching us struggle against our very natures in order to please him?

Does he like it more that we are now all suffering, many of us bound to burn for all eternity because he would not raise his hand against the force that made us so? Would he not erase the very knowledege that dooms us? Was our loyalty and love in the garden not enough for this god? Does he also need to see us burn?

Be careful how you answer, for the trite and common answer is not enough in this instance, we're talking about a god that is intentionally allowing us to suffer and doesn't seem to care. Why does he want us to worship him in that case...to prove our love? Why? My daughter doesn't have to prove her love to me, does that make me more loving than god?

PLease, I REALLY need to hear the answer to this one

Man allows himself to suffer.You state God doesn't care for us, though you know he sent us his only son to die for our sins.If it were not for Jesus we'd be long gone.God gives us tests so we may come closer to him.Faith is the key to everything along with Jesus christ.Without faith we cannot please God, without Jesus we cannot enter heaven.Tough situatuions arise so we can call on the Lord to give us strength.You mention God creating poor people.The decision to be poor is in our hands.What is your concept of poor?
Going back to what you said earlier.God didn't reverse since his WILL is beyond that.He wouldn't be perfect if he were to reverse something, this implies him making a mistake which he doesn't do.The knowledge we have doesn't doom us, infact it should be used to help do God's will.Adam dis-obeyed God so there wasn't much loyalty.He allowed the woman to tempt him.Now you know why women are men's weaknesses, the degree of which varies of course.

You must see the big picture, the full WILL of God. Learn the very reason we are hear.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-09-01 02:48am

Priesto wrote:
Stravo wrote:
Priesto wrote:God doesn't force us to do good, so that's where the free will exists.You have the free will to curse me out and be on the internet.God does everything he can, but only we make the decision.We pre- determine if we want to, or we can let God determine, the choice is yours.
Priesto, the simplistic thought process about God and free will always bug me, if God indeed loves us why create thee feelings in us to do evil, if we lived in perfect harmony in the garden, and by eating the fruit we fell from grace and became nasty people, the why does God allow it?

If he is omnipotent and all powerful why can he not reverse what a stinking piece of fruit did to us, why not close our minds to the knowdlege of good and evil? In other words, why make us suffer?

Does he get kicks from watching his pathetic creations fumble about violating his will? Does he enjoy creating the commandement not to steal and create poor people? Does he enjoy watching us struggle against our very natures in order to please him?

Does he like it more that we are now all suffering, many of us bound to burn for all eternity because he would not raise his hand against the force that made us so? Would he not erase the very knowledege that dooms us? Was our loyalty and love in the garden not enough for this god? Does he also need to see us burn?

Be careful how you answer, for the trite and common answer is not enough in this instance, we're talking about a god that is intentionally allowing us to suffer and doesn't seem to care. Why does he want us to worship him in that case...to prove our love? Why? My daughter doesn't have to prove her love to me, does that make me more loving than god?

PLease, I REALLY need to hear the answer to this one
Man allows himself to suffer.You state God doesn't care for us, though you know he sent us his only son to die for our sins.If it were not for Jesus we'd be long gone.God gives us tests so we may come closer to him.Faith is the key to everything along with Jesus christ.Without faith we cannot please God, without Jesus we cannot enter heaven.Tough situatuions arise so we can call on the Lord to give us strength.You mention God creating poor people.The decision to be poor is in our hands.What is your concept of poor?
Going back to what you said earlier.God didn't reverse since his WILL is beyond that.He wouldn't be perfect if he were to reverse something, this implies him making a mistake which he doesn't do.The knowledge we have doesn't doom us, infact it should be used to help do God's will.Adam dis-obeyed God so there wasn't much loyalty.He allowed the woman to tempt him.Now you know why women are men's weaknesses, the degree of which varies of course. You must see the big picture, the full WILL of God. Learn the very reason we are hear.

Therefore I should set obstacles for my daughter so that she becomes closer to me. I should make drugs readiuly available to tempt her, boys, jewelry to steal...etc. THUS if she does not do the drugs or sleep with the boys or steal the jewelry, hot diggety, she LOVES me and she is brought closer to me. THAT IS JUST SICK.

You are merely repeating the drivel we were shoveled in religious school (19 years of Catholic education) WHY does God want us closer through tests of character flaws HE CREATED. HE is the Creator so he created evil as well as good...WHY? I would never think of testing my daughter's love..so why does God test mine. What does he get out of testing us and "bringing us closer to him?" Or will I have to be satisfied with the answer Job got?

As I see it, the Full Will of God seems to be pretty lousy and my love for my child is greater than his love for me.

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-09-01 02:59am

The tempter is the devil not God.God allows the tempter to present the obstacle.You forget God never gives us more than we can bare.So you can't do that to your daughter obviously.A parent is to be an example by being christ like.So, when those temptations arise for your child they'll resist.Of course the Lord tells us each individually how to raise our children.The very reason we are down hear is because we fell in heaven, which is why faith is important.God makes himself visible only to those with faith.People wonder why God doesn't make himself visible just to prove he exists.A very stupid thing I might add.Not everyone is deserving to be in the presence of the almighty God.

I forgot to adress Job. It is not about what God gets, but what we get.Job was more prosperous after the situation ended than before.Tests are our chance to gather treasures in heaven.But sometime s we can have a little bit of heaven on earth as well.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-01 08:10am

*Ahem

The tempter is the devil not God.God allows the tempter to present the obstacle.You forget God never gives us more than we can bare.So you can't do that to your daughter obviously.A parent is to be an example by being christ like.So, when those temptations arise for your child they'll resist.Of course the Lord tells us each individually how to raise our children.The very reason we are down hear is because we fell in heaven, which is why faith is important.God makes himself visible only to those with faith.People wonder why God doesn't make himself visible just to prove he exists.A very stupid thing I might add.Not everyone is deserving to be in the presence of the almighty God.

I forgot to adress Job. It is not about what God gets, but what we get.Job was more prosperous after the situation ended than before.Tests are our chance to gather treasures in heaven.But sometime s we can have a little bit of heaven on earth as well.

*ahem sorry but it needs to be said
WHAT KIND OF ILL-LOGIC IS THAT YOU THUNDERING MORON!

The tempter is the devil not God.God allows the tempter to present the obstacle.You forget God never gives us more than we can bare.

Ahh the Tempter is the Devil yes? Why is he the Tempter now, Sure your Sunday school classes might say he is but stop and think a moment(Very hard for you I know) And ask yourself this
Who created the Temptations? Did the Devil put the tree there? Did the Devil create anything? Is he not mearly using what God PUT there?

So you can't do that to your daughter obviously.A parent is to be an example by being christ like.

Ahh Yes to be a Racisit Bastard, How silly of me to raise kids like an Intellgent Human Being.

So, when those temptations arise for your child they'll resist.Of course the Lord tells us each individually how to raise our children

You don't relize the hole you've dug yourself with this do you? If the Lord tells us how to raise kids then all of Man-Kinds Evil can agian be blaimed on Him as he told everyone from Plato to Hitler how they should grow up. And you can't sit there and tell me upbrining does not have a great deal to do with how a child turns out because if it where not true a whole nother set of points about Christianity would be wrong.

very reason we are down hear is because we fell in heaven, which is why faith is important.God makes himself visible only to those with faith.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when has the last time God made himself visaible to the people EXCEPT during the old Testmate during his Tyranical Racisit Overlord Days?

People wonder why God doesn't make himself visible just to prove he exists.A very stupid thing I might add

Realy? Asking for Proove is stuiped? Let me guess do you not use Modern Medicisin? Well the diffrence between Cynide and an Popluar Aids Prevention Drug are few and far between, YOU can use it because a certian Agancy asked for prove and the company provided for it. But then I guess asking for Proof is stuiped then

Guess we don't need trials do we? Asking for proof is stuiped eh?

Not everyone is deserving to be in the presence of the almighty God.

Dig fundy DIG!, More Racisit Bull-shit from your ever-hating God

WARNING TERRIBLE LOGIC AHEAD FROM PRIESTO THOSE WITH MEDICAL CONDITIONS RELATED TO HEART PROBLEMS SHOULD NOT READ THE NEXT QUOTE

I forgot to adress Job. It is not about what God gets, but what we get.Job was more prosperous after the situation ended than before.Tests

IS JOBE THE ONLY ONE WHO MATTERED? WHAT ABOUT HIS
ENTIRE FAMILY GOD MURDERED AND DON'T GIVE ME THAT IT WAS SATAN BULL-SHIT, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE YOU SO OFTEN THUMP GOD IS ALL POWERFUL AND NOTHING HAPPENS WITHOUT HIS OK HE IS AT FAULT, DON'T FORGET THUMPER THAT THAT BIBLE ALSO SAYS HE BRINGS PEOPLE BACK FROM THE DEAD. SO WHY THE HELL DID HE DO NIETHER? HE IS A MURDERING RACIST TYRANICAL OVERLORD, Love entirers no where into the equation

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-09-01 11:31am

<snip>

Bean, I applaud your valiant effort. But you're trying to teach quantum mechanics to an amoeba.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-01 11:53am

Well Eleas Quantum theory and Probability say at that level at least I stand some possible chance of succeding

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-09-01 01:12pm

So after reading priesto's responses so far I can only conclude that my love for my daughter is greater than God's love for me...God's love for his sickly little dancing amoebas here on earth pales before the love I feel for my daughter for I do not have to test it, set up obstcacles, create a scapegoat named Louis Cyphier (Angel heart reference) so that I can work out my naughty nature on her and her life without reprecussion, AND if she does not like being treated like my personal slave and does not worship me or question my will...woe unto her for I will smite her down with my plagues and miracles...yes, I can see why they say God is Love.

CorSec · Post by **CorSec** » 2002-09-01 03:05pm

Stravo wrote:... create a scapegoat named Louis Cyphier (Angel heart reference) ...

I just saw that the other day. It was a pretty good movie. Robert DeNiro makes a pretty intimidating devil. (The name was spelled Cyphre, by the way. Rourke playing a New Yorker couldn't help but add his own syllables in there.)

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-09-01 03:09pm

I have one question about Satan. When he rebelled against God, was Satan ever released from service?

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-09-01 04:32pm

Mr Bean wrote:Well Eleas Quantum theory and Probability say at that level at least I stand some possible chance of succeding

From where do you get your boundless optimism? I want some!

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-01 04:48pm

Well I have three suggestions

One, Read the funnys, web-comics, whatever you get opmsistic after a good laugh

Two, To countiue this line of suggestining please depostie 19.99
Or lots of money and/or no money worries makes a person easer going

Three, Fall down a flight of stairs every day

Realy try it for a week and then tell me how you feel

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » 2002-09-01 06:53pm

Here's my $.02 - If the Devil exists, he is God

Horrified? Hear me out. If, as the Bible states, that Lucifer is the source of all Evil, then this being is interferring with God's original plan (the love and worship of God). But if God is all-powerful (as is assumed), then no one can interfere with this plan, unless its done by a being of equal power. But there is no power equal to God. Except (you guessed it) God Himself. How much of a stretch is it to imagine that God created a nether face for himself, a different facet of God that those among humanity who need it can point to and say "That is the source of all Evil". Fear of the Devil forces many to have love of God.

What do you all think?

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-09-01 07:04pm

Mr Bean wrote:Well I have three suggestions

One, Read the funnys, web-comics, whatever you get opmsistic after a good laugh

Two, To countiue this line of suggestining please depostie 19.99
Or lots of money and/or no money worries makes a person easer going

Three, Fall down a flight of stairs every day

Realy try it for a week and then tell me how you feel

Tried it for five minutes...

...my God, it's full of stars.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-01 07:08pm

Defiant its already been said

IF God IS God as He states what his power capbailitys are an such then ultimatly everything is HIS fault for he did not stop it

Thefore he is a Racsit Gencoidal Mass murder and free will doth not exist

Not a pleasnt view eh?

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-09-02 03:52am

Jobs kids were taken out of the world.Murder?God took the spirits of those children to the other side.God destroying, would mean he sent them into oblivion.You address only the physical realm.Your accusations of God murdering people is poorly thought out since you ignore what matters, the souls. We only live on this earth for but a short period.We are all just spirits encased in flesh.
You are correct about the Devil using what God put there.You're incorrect in that the Devil is the one who tempted EVE.The tree of knowledge would have not matter if the Devil hadn't tempted eve.They wouldn't have eaten the fruit.It was eves choice to eat the fruit.God also put the devil there, and it is so we can gain strength with God.God makes full use of everything in all situations.God did not destroy satan for a reason.Satan's only want, is to destroy God's children.Which is why there is sin in the world.If God were to have simply have forgiven Adam and Eve, they would be no better.But God makes full use of the situation so we can grow from our mistakes.
In short GOD uses the devil as the tempter to make us grow and to grow in God's righteous steps.God is not the tempter mind you.He doesn't tempt and he doesn't tell satan what to do.He knows what satan's going to do.In knowing this he is able to present situations that we can easily get out of, just by calling on the Lord.For satan it's a game with a time limit.He is trying to devour as many people as he can before his time is up.

Why do you bring up racism? When I said not everyone is worthy to be in the presence of the Lord, I mean clean and holy.Black,white, pink it doesn't matter.

And who said God tells everyone how to raise children?He can if we allow him to and listen to him.Where do you get these things? I don't think many people actually obey what the Bible says, do you? Many people don't actually love their neighbor as themselves, or turn the other cheek.But maybe that's just me.You also seem to think the Devil can take someones physical life.Only God decides not the devil.The evil can consume people's souls, and make them as someone else.You know, selling your soul to the devil.
*things the devil can do
1.Consume our souls
2.can takes away love
3.can take away joy
3.can take away peace
4.sound thinking (sanity)
For him to be able to do this, we must first give in to whatever temptations the Devil brings.All of which are not more than we can bare.
If he can't take our soul, he will attempt to do the other four things.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-02 09:08am

Jobs kids were taken out of the world.Murder?God took the spirits of those children to the other side.God destroying, would mean he sent them into oblivion.You address only the physical realm.Your accusations of God murdering people is poorly thought out since you ignore what matters, the souls. We only live on this earth for but a short period.We are all just spirits encased in flesh.

Yaadaa Yaaddaa Yadda Relgious Babble, But you admit as I knew you would that he indeed Killed them, you try to aurgue its not murder, Personaly I don't care you've conceded that he indeed Killed them, Why? Because to server as a lesson to somone else, Much as Mao did when he threated his Generals Famlies if they lost battles
Dig it deeper Priesto dig deep

You are correct about the Devil using what God put there.You're incorrect in that the Devil is the one who tempted EVE.The tree of knowledge would have not matter if the Devil hadn't tempted eve.They wouldn't have eaten the fruit.It was eves choice to eat the fruit.God also put the devil there, and it is so we can gain strength with God.God makes full use of everything in all situations.God did not destroy satan for a reason.Satan's only want, is to destroy God's children.Which is why there is sin in the world.If God were to have simply have forgiven Adam and Eve, they would be no better.But God makes full use of the situation so we can grow from

Thank you for Admiting it was Gods Fault, Tell me if I place a large pot of boiling hot water in a pre-school kindergarden who is at fault if a kid tips it over on himself?
Why me of course, Just as its Gods Fault for placing somthing in this Perfect Gardin that would "hurt" humans who is at fault? Why God agian, Remeber from your own Book Thumper that they had no knowledge of Good and Evil, God told them not to eat from the tree but did he say why? Did he tell them what would happen? No he did not and as you conceded as I thought you might being a Blind Thumper and not reading all the way through, God is agian at Fault for puting the Tree there to begin with(Oh and Thanks for Getting the Devil off agian so he did not wrong according to you back there)

God did not destroy satan for a reason.Satan's only want, is to destroy God's children.

Realy? As I remeber he refused to Server Humans not wanted to kill them but then you can remeber that nothing happens without God's say so, so agian God is at fault for anything the Devil Does.

In short GOD uses the devil as the tempter to make us grow and to grow in God's righteous steps.God is not the tempter mind you.He doesn't tempt and he doesn't tell satan what to do.He knows what satan's going to do.In knowing this he is able to present situations that we can easily get out of, just by calling on the Lord.For satan it's a game with a time limit.He is trying to devour as many people as he can before his time is up.

Quote-God uses the Devil as the Temptor, And then you acutal go on to say he is not the Tempter

Tell me if I hire a hit man to kill you and your family are I'm I not just as at fault as he is though I did not pull the Trigger myself?

If not I'd love your home-address as I have an old Friend named Vinny I'd love you to meet

Why do you bring up racism? When I said not everyone is worthy to be in the presence of the Lord, I mean clean and holy.Black,white, pink it doesn't matter.

Bull-shit, The Jews are the Chosen people of Gods(Strait from God Repeated many times), The Cannanites are lesser than Dogs(Jesus said that one) The *Lesser people who where in Isreal that God killed or had the Jews kill
God is racist, If Hitler once said, Gee Jews are not so bad say during 1945 would that suddenly make him a non-Racsist? No? Yeah thats right because he had already shoved a few million people into Ovens and had them take *Showers

And who said God tells everyone how to raise children?He can if we allow him to and listen to him.Where do you get these things? I don't think many people actually obey what the Bible says, do you?

Yea thankfuly because according to God worsphing other gods or somone asking you to worship another God is punsabile by the Death Penilty so sayith the Lord Deuteronomy 13:6-9

Also Chronicles 15:12-13 has another fun quote about those that do not seek the lord shall be put to death

Now onto your fun things about the Devil

*things the devil can do
1.Consume our souls
2.can takes away love
3.can take away joy
3.can take away peace
4.sound thinking (sanity)
For him to be able to do this, we must first give in to whatever temptations the Devil brings.All of which are not more than we can bare.

Ahh so if anything Bad Happens its the Devils Fault eh? The Insane are realy possed by the Devil eh? Peace only from God eh? Tell me do you know the Country to have the least Wars on the planet's main Religion is? Infact the top ten least violent countrys religious Are? Buddism, Not Christianity know why?

Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the Earth. I did not come to bring peace; but a sword
Ex 15:3 The LORD is a God of war: the LORD is his name.

Who lets this happen? Who lets the Devil Exist and Do Evil
Why agian Priesto by your admission GOD DOES

Dig deeper Fundy prehaps a passing encouter with a large City Bus or Maybe Vinny can snap through that shell of Dodgma and reach whatever part of your brain is not devoted to repeating canned answers

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-09-02 03:50pm

I think God's a sadist, look at the evidence:

To get to Heaven: you have to obey all the rules and give your life over completely to God. Your reward is to continue serving him and worshipping him in Heaven.

To go to Hell: you don't have to break any rules, "original sin" alone is enough to damn you. Likewise merely being in a part of the world where you'd never hear anything from the Bible is enough to condemn you. You are thence punished for the crime of where you were born for all of eternity.

What purpose does Hell serve? It can't deter us from breaking the rules, because it's a punishment we don't see. We've got only the church's word that something horrible is waiting for "sinners" after we die. It can't be correctional, because it's eternal punishment: there's no parole from Hell. What does that leave us with? It's torture, pure and simple: gratuitous abuse for all of eternity. You could sum it up as "serve the Master or get the whip."

That would make Lucifer the first slave to revolt and stand up against it.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-09-02 03:55pm

You nailed it. Hell is not a punishment. Punishments are meant to teach lessons. Hell is simply torture with no end. There is no lesson to be learned from it, only that you should have obeyed God.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-09-03 12:07am

God can't be omnipotent, because he didn't know that Adam and Eve had eaten the apples (an apple a day keeps the doctor away, but also sends you to Hell

) until shortly after the fact. Thus, He doesn't know all, and if you're not omniscient you can't smite down someone who's outside your sense radius. Ergo, not omnipotent.

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-09-03 02:55am

Mr Bean wrote:
Jobs kids were taken out of the world.Murder?God took the spirits of those children to the other side.God destroying, would mean he sent them into oblivion.You address only the physical realm.Your accusations of God murdering people is poorly thought out since you ignore what matters, the souls. We only live on this earth for but a short period.We are all just spirits encased in flesh.
Yaadaa Yaaddaa Yadda Relgious Babble, But you admit as I knew you would that he indeed Killed them, you try to aurgue its not murder, Personaly I don't care you've conceded that he indeed Killed them, Why? Because to server as a lesson to somone else, Much as Mao did when he threated his Generals Famlies if they lost battles
Dig it deeper Priesto dig deep

You are correct about the Devil using what God put there.You're incorrect in that the Devil is the one who tempted EVE.The tree of knowledge would have not matter if the Devil hadn't tempted eve.They wouldn't have eaten the fruit.It was eves choice to eat the fruit.God also put the devil there, and it is so we can gain strength with God.God makes full use of everything in all situations.God did not destroy satan for a reason.Satan's only want, is to destroy God's children.Which is why there is sin in the world.If God were to have simply have forgiven Adam and Eve, they would be no better.But God makes full use of the situation so we can grow from
Thank you for Admiting it was Gods Fault, Tell me if I place a large pot of boiling hot water in a pre-school kindergarden who is at fault if a kid tips it over on himself?
Why me of course, Just as its Gods Fault for placing somthing in this Perfect Gardin that would "hurt" humans who is at fault? Why God agian, Remeber from your own Book Thumper that they had no knowledge of Good and Evil, God told them not to eat from the tree but did he say why? Did he tell them what would happen? No he did not and as you conceded as I thought you might being a Blind Thumper and not reading all the way through, God is agian at Fault for puting the Tree there to begin with(Oh and Thanks for Getting the Devil off agian so he did not wrong according to you back there)

God did not destroy satan for a reason.Satan's only want, is to destroy God's children.
Realy? As I remeber he refused to Server Humans not wanted to kill them but then you can remeber that nothing happens without God's say so, so agian God is at fault for anything the Devil Does.

In short GOD uses the devil as the tempter to make us grow and to grow in God's righteous steps.God is not the tempter mind you.He doesn't tempt and he doesn't tell satan what to do.He knows what satan's going to do.In knowing this he is able to present situations that we can easily get out of, just by calling on the Lord.For satan it's a game with a time limit.He is trying to devour as many people as he can before his time is up.
Quote-God uses the Devil as the Temptor, And then you acutal go on to say he is not the Tempter

Tell me if I hire a hit man to kill you and your family are I'm I not just as at fault as he is though I did not pull the Trigger myself?

If not I'd love your home-address as I have an old Friend named Vinny I'd love you to meet

Why do you bring up racism? When I said not everyone is worthy to be in the presence of the Lord, I mean clean and holy.Black,white, pink it doesn't matter.
Bull-shit, The Jews are the Chosen people of Gods(Strait from God Repeated many times), The Cannanites are lesser than Dogs(Jesus said that one) The *Lesser people who where in Isreal that God killed or had the Jews kill
God is racist, If Hitler once said, Gee Jews are not so bad say during 1945 would that suddenly make him a non-Racsist? No? Yeah thats right because he had already shoved a few million people into Ovens and had them take *Showers

And who said God tells everyone how to raise children?He can if we allow him to and listen to him.Where do you get these things? I don't think many people actually obey what the Bible says, do you?
Yea thankfuly because according to God worsphing other gods or somone asking you to worship another God is punsabile by the Death Penilty so sayith the Lord Deuteronomy 13:6-9

Also Chronicles 15:12-13 has another fun quote about those that do not seek the lord shall be put to death

Now onto your fun things about the Devil

*things the devil can do
1.Consume our souls
2.can takes away love
3.can take away joy
3.can take away peace
4.sound thinking (sanity)
For him to be able to do this, we must first give in to whatever temptations the Devil brings.All of which are not more than we can bare.
Ahh so if anything Bad Happens its the Devils Fault eh? The Insane are realy possed by the Devil eh? Peace only from God eh? Tell me do you know the Country to have the least Wars on the planet's main Religion is? Infact the top ten least violent countrys religious Are? Buddism, Not Christianity know why?

Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the Earth. I did not come to bring peace; but a sword
Ex 15:3 The LORD is a God of war: the LORD is his name.

Who lets this happen? Who lets the Devil Exist and Do Evil
Why agian Priesto by your admission GOD DOES

Dig deeper Fundy prehaps a passing encouter with a large City Bus or Maybe Vinny can snap through that shell of Dodgma and reach whatever part of your brain is not devoted to repeating canned answers

You still do not understand.Stating something as religious babble, which proves that.You have said what I already stated, only turning my statements into complete garbage.This is all basic elementary, yet you say I'm the one who is ignorant.First the basics MR. BEAN. Why does the Devil exist? we all have fallen from God, to get back to him we accept Jesus as our savior.But it's not so easy if there is another path that is just as tempting except bad.The world is one big training camp, we are the trainees.Without resistence there'd be no point for us to be down here, and everyone would be on the right hand of God.But satan causes the resistence.We fell from heaven due to lucifer and his rebeliousness.Our only way back is through Jesus.The Devil is no hitman since we must allow satan to destroy us.God doesn't decide satan's very doings.God makes decisions on what we do, when confronted with the temptations Satan presents.Poor example on your part.The one who hires a hitman, wants someone destroyed.The one who hires a hitman pays him.The one who hires a hitman decides on how the hitman goes about destroying.The one who hires a hitman, tells them when to strike. All God does is limits satan, when it comes to temptations.Since each of us can bare a different amount of burden.God knows what we can handle, it is up to realize this for ourselves.A hitman doesn't provide a way out for the very person he is trying to kill.
On to "GODS FAULT"
You use an example that has little relevence.The little kid was not commanded to do this.Eve's eating of the apple was no accident.The tree of knowledge didn't hurt mankind, man did by dis-obeying God.You want to blame all of man's bad decisions on God, for presenting a test he didn't pass though he could've.It is all based on what man decided to do.

"GOD OF WAR"
God fights for all that is good.Evil will always fail.We are to be soldiers for christ.If you think it means we are to go around condeming sinners, you are in-correct.We fight evil with Love not hate.The people are not who we fight, it is the sin.So if you see a christian soldier as someone bad, that's fine by me.Jesus simply stated the future and that is when he comes to cast judgement.Bringing a sword=judgement

Finally "GOD IS A RACIST"

The caaninites were a group of people not a race.Just as Sodom and Gomorrah was a group of people.Of course anyone is lesser than dogs if they are so deep in sin.The jews were the chosen people, not the only people.Chosen is a term that means that group of people know better and are specifically commanded to do God's work.That dos not mean that they are the only chilrden of God.We are all to be the chosen people of God.Jesus had supper with sinners and taught them.It was the pharisees who did not accept Jesus, and they were Jews.So a chosen people means nothing if you don't act like it anyways.So your example of a peaceful country is also pointless.
What is your defenition of Bad happenings?

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The Devil

Daddy where do Idiots come from?

Re: Daddy where do Idiots come from?