Racism...or not?

[Uther]

Tell me if you would consider the following to be an example of racism in action:

With the deadline college applications coming up, a lot of students at my high school are applying to one or more of the University of California campuses. A lot of people I've talked to have SWORN they won't attend UC Irvine. Several have said they'd rather attend the local community college.

Why? The most commonly cited reason is "there are too many Asians." At this time, UCI's population is over 50 percent Asian.

Would you consider this racism? Or just a perfectly acceptable preference? Something in between?

[Rogue 9]

Racism. They are basing their opinion and actions solely on the color of the person's skin and eye shape, and not upon their actions or any other factor that those discriminated against could control. Unless there's more to the scenario, I'm afraid that I see no alternative.

[Hamel]

It's a preference, but a racist one.

[Uther]

But does (or should) our society condemn people for wanting to associate with others of their own type? Is it wrong to feel more comfortable who look like you, and therefore have the compulsion to attend a university where most people look like you?

I realize that UCI isn't 100% Asian and there are large white and other minority populations, but looking at it from a kind of quick first impression sense (as most high school seniors do, I assume) UCI "is" Asian.

[Natorgator]

Well, I'd actually feel kinda awkward if I was in the a place where I was the only white person. I don't know if it's necessarily racist, but people tend to associate with people who are like themselves.

[Rogue 9]

No, its not wrong to want to associate with others like yourself. However, it is wrong to reject others simply because they're not like you. The former is acceptance, the latter is exclusion without real cause.

[ArmorPierce]

yeah it's racism and some of you just cited the reason for racial clubs.

[Knife]

Damn, I like Irvine. Its a good little town.




As long as you don't try to get on the freeway (either 5 or 405) anytime from noon to midnight.

[Sarevok]

Prefernce has got nothing do with it. When people prefer people of one race has over another it becomes racism.

[General Zod]

meh. picking a school that has a good deal of one race over another smacks of racism. . . .which is surprising coming from california, one of the more liberal states out there.

though personally i'd judge a college based on whether or not it has any hot girls in it as opposed to which race is predominant.

[Ypoknons]

I'm sorry, but it's basically saying that: "That ethnic group sucks. Everyone of them is going to be different from me." It's generalizing on a person's charatcter based solely on their ethnic background. 50% Asian? So what? The other 50% would be white and black then?

So ok, your skin may not be the same color, but what makes you think that you won't be able to intergrate? A lot of these kids have grown up with Western culture - they are just like any other American kid. And Asian is a fucking big group - Chinese, Vietnamese etc...

It is true that people like to stick with their own ethnic groups, but that doesn't mean it's right. Why should it matter what skin color the people around you are, especially if they've been brought up in the same environment? There are plenty of Western-style Chinese families I know even in Hong Kong, mine included. You won't be the only white person, and I fail to see how Asians are that much different from whites.

[Stofsk]

Prefernce has got nothing do with it. When people prefer people of one race has over another it becomes racism.

Um, you do realise you just described a preferance for these people? Heck you even used the same words (see the bold emphasis)

To the OP, I think you'll find that people will generally find any reason at all to segregate themselves from others. This by no means makes it acceptable, it's simply human nature.

Do these same people who state they have no wish to join UC Irvine go on to say they hate asians? If so, that would be racism. If not, then they're making a preferance based on dubious reasons, which could be construed as racist.

Personally I can't conceive of a reason why you would choose a particular university over another based on the student racial demographics. Given that most unis are full of thousands of people, it really shouldn't matter that 50% belong to a clear majority of a race you're not a part of. It's not like you have to hang with that 50%, and it leaves the other with which to bond with.

Somehow I feel these people's priorities are out of whack. Not surprising, coming from high schoolers. I sure as shit didn't know what to expect from uni life (and to some extent still don't); there's no way they can make a value judgement based on knowledge they have little understanding in. Once they walk through a uni campus and realise just how motherfucking huge they can be, with so many people walking around, I doubt they would continue to hold onto such a bizarre preferance. If they do, it's probably racism.

[pecker]

Is the reason they don't want to go just because they're Asian, or because they don't want to compete with really the stereotypical smart Asians?

The former is racist, the latter is pragmatic.

[Stofsk]

Is the reason they don't want to go just because they're Asian, or because they don't want to compete with really the stereotypical smart Asians?

The former is racist, the latter is pragmatic.

It may be pragmatic, but it's also self-defeating. I have a hard time believing that asians as a whole are so much more smarter than whites or blacks; that's a kind of racism y'know, just aimed in the "wrong" direction - think how any kid'll feel if he heard that he can't compete with those asians because they're smarter than him; or if an asian kid hears this and has to work harder because of the added pressure. What the fuck? You should always seek an education for yourself, and you should always challenge yourself.

The point I was trying to engender across in my above post is that high schoolers just don't know what uni is like, so to reject one institute for dubious reasons is ultimately futile. How're they going to benefit from it?

[Zaia]

From just your original post, I found it hard to say whether we were supposed to be discussing if it was racism from potential students rejecting that school because of its high Asian population, or if it was racism from the school itself on why there is a notably high Asian population.

[Darth Wong]

From just your original post, I found it hard to say whether we were supposed to be discussing if it was racism from potential students rejecting that school because of its high Asian population, or if it was racism from the school itself on why there is a notably high Asian population.

Sounds like the people just don't want to go to a school with "too many Asians". It's probably not racism for school boards to admit a lot of Asians; it is no secret that Asians make up a disproportionately large group in the academic high-performer category, particularly in certain fields such as computer science.

Imagine if you heard some guy saying "I don't want to go to that university; too many blacks". Wouldn't that OBVIOUSLY strike you as racism? Why is there any question whether this is racism?

[Zoink]

rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

While I'm enclined to say that any decision which is based on race is racist, the definition I found doesn't really support that.

Its your right to associate with whomever you choose (its also the right for everyone else to *not associate with you if you make these kinds of choices!)

So I suppose that by the definition, wanting to marry within your race, wanting to give an award to someone in your race (eg Image Awards), or wanting to associate with people of a certain race isn't racist as long as its simply a *preference* and not because of *prejudice*.

In this case however, he is clearly singling out Asians as the source of the descision. It appears to me that he/she want to *avoid* Asians. I would conclude that he/she has negative opinions (ie. prejudice) regarding Asians, and is therefore making a racist decision (ie. a decision based on prejudice, not a preference).

[Darth Wong]

So I suppose that by the definition, wanting to marry within your race, wanting to give an award to someone in your race (eg Image Awards), or wanting to associate with people of a certain race isn't racist as long as its simply a *preference* and not because of *prejudice*.

Yes it is, because the person is openly discriminating.

In this case however, he is clearly singling out Asians as the source of the descision. It appears to me that he/she want to *avoid* Asians. I would conclude that he/she has negative opinions (ie. prejudice) regarding Asians, and is therefore making a racist decision (ie. a decision based on prejudice, not a preference).

"Prejudice vs preference?" Is this some kind of joke? If a KKK member says that he just "prefers" to be around white people, hence his vision of an all-white America, that's not racist?

Any form of discriminatory attitudes based on race are racist. Period.

[Bertie Wooster]

I think it is a subtle form of racism, because that very same attitude would lead to discrimination in selling real estate in a town to keep it from becoming too Asian. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this an issue in British Columbia where in ritzy towns, people were becoming upset because too many Asians were moving in.

Its also a stupid rationalization too avoid Irvine just because the majority is Asian. I fail to see how that would be a drawback to someone's college experience.

For example - I went to a vietnamese karaoke bar in Long Beach last May with my friend James (who's white) and my Filipino cousin Jeanette, and us three were the only non- vietnamese there, but me and James had many girls coming up to us and my cousin Jeanette had a lot of guys giving her attention. It seemed like everyone there was from Irvine, and we got invited to go to a place in Irvine the next day so it wasn't like we were shunned for not being Asian.

[Zoink]

Yes it is, because the person is openly discriminating.

I suppose you are right. Discrimitating means "choice".

If a KKK member says that he just "prefers" to be around white people, hence his vision of an all-white America, that's not racist?

While I concede to your original point, I don't agree with your example as a proper counter. The KKK member with his "all-white america" agenda that we are imagining would also clearly hate blacks, wants to get rid of blacks, and is clearly not doing it out of preference (regardless of whatever excuse).

I was trying to think of examples where the person was making their decision for other reasons (example finding looks attractive, pleasing your parents, or encouraging disenchanted members of a race with examples of success), and not simply trying to disguise/self-justify hatred.

[Darth Wong]

Yes it is, because the person is openly discriminating.

I suppose you are right. Discrimitating means "choice".

Discrimination is not neceessarily bad; it depends on what your criteria for discrimination are. For example, if you discriminate against a potential girlfriend based on race, then you are a racist. If you discriminate against a prospective employee based on competence and education, then you are being perfectly fair. That's the distinction; discrimination based solely on race (unquestionably the case in the example given at the top of the thread) is clearly racist.

PS. The distinction between saying "I would never date a black chick" and "I prefer to date white chicks" is a very, very thin line indeed (quite frankly, I think it's nonexistent).

[Eleas]

PS. The distinction between saying "I would never date a black chick" and "I prefer to date white chicks" is a very, very thin line indeed (quite frankly, I think it's nonexistent).

Really? I personally prefer not to date black chicks.

Actually, that's not quite true. I have no dating preferences, but I know what I find pretty in a girl, visually. Specifically, I just don't find pronounced negroid facial features attractive, I think almond-shaped eyes can be damned attractive. Darker (dusky) skin can also be very appealing...

...does that make me racist?

[Alferd Packer]

It's racism, plain and simple. I don't see how it could be anything but.

Maybe I'm just a product of a tolerant household, but it seems to me wholly idiotic and smallminded to base one's assumptions of a person's character solely upon their skin color.

[Pendragon]

...does that make me racist?

I think that falls into the shallow, objectifying and sexist department...

Adding racism to that would just be uneccesary...

[Eleas]

I think that falls into the shallow, objectifying and sexist department...

Adding racism to that would just be uneccesary...

Blah.

Seriously now, if I met a chick I really connected to, physical features would mean little. I'm just talking about likes and dislikes. And the fact that you're ugly, of course.