Is humanity fucked?

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Bedlam
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by Bedlam »

Broomstick wrote: 2022-07-22 04:27am
Darth Yan wrote: 2022-07-21 09:55pm I do think people will be motivated to put more effort into space travel and colonization of other worlds if only out of self interest.
Only a tiny minority of people will be able to escape to space in the foreseeable future.

Space is an insanely hostile environment. If/when we colonize it the environment will kill a crapload of people, and shorten the lifespans of those who aren't outright killed.

Although some of the technology used for space might have some applications for hostile earth environments.
Plus the math's of the amount of energy needed to get mass into space means that only a small proportion of the population is ever going be able to be moved out of the gravity well. Of course those can then make more of themselves via the usual method but that doesn't do anything to help the majority left on the planet.
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

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Tribble wrote: 2022-07-22 10:55pm Even if we significantly cut back on our energy/materials/pollution footprint, the total population is still growing (at the moment). Is it possible to sustain the current population with massive cut backs in our current usage, or will there also need to be large reductions to the total population as well?
I suspect there will be massive die-offs in humanity's future. The only question is whether they'll be natural or man-made. (Or both)
Tribble wrote: 2022-07-22 10:55pmAnd if it’s necessary that the total population be reduced, how would one go about doing that in an ethical way anyways? Perhaps a massive contraception campaign plus 1 child policy world wide for 100 years or something, long enough that a good chunk of us die off naturally? Would we have enough time for that, assuming it could actually be pulled off?

#1 way to help the environment, especially if you live in an industrialized society? Don’t have kids.
While I agree that a smaller world human population would have a lot of benefits to all life on the planet, no human society is structured to be top-heavy with elderly people which is what happens with a 1-child policy. China is currently dealing with issues arising from that. That may not be insolvable, but it's new territory for our species.
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loomer
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by loomer »

As fun as space colonization fantasies are, they really are just fantasies for the foreseeable future. There is no realistic prospect of it developing quickly enough to have any meaningful impact on curbing the climate crisis about to hit us full force even if we manage to get a self-sustaining space colony going within the next few years. The answer to the problem of continued human existence here on earth is actions here on earth.

The current population could, in theory, be sustained without mass die offs, but not with the present level of energy use and waste or anything approximating it. Again, the number one problem we have is that we've built a system on the faulty basis of cheap, ubiquitous energy with no serious costs. There's a reason degrowth economics is a burgeoning field.
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by Spice Runner »

loomer wrote: 2022-07-23 05:05am As fun as space colonization fantasies are, they really are just fantasies for the foreseeable future. There is no realistic prospect of it developing quickly enough to have any meaningful impact on curbing the climate crisis about to hit us full force even if we manage to get a self-sustaining space colony going within the next few years. The answer to the problem of continued human existence here on earth is actions here on earth.

The current population could, in theory, be sustained without mass die offs, but not with the present level of energy use and waste or anything approximating it. Again, the number one problem we have is that we've built a system on the faulty basis of cheap, ubiquitous energy with no serious costs. There's a reason degrowth economics is a burgeoning field.
Makes me wonder with the current steep rise in oil and gas prices has there been any organized push for more renewable energy anywhere in the world or are the oil companies that powerful.

I do see a lot more articles about sustainable growth these days.
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

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The thing about humans.....we're quite resilient and we can do a lot when really pushed (look at the modern sewer system; that cost a LOT of time and effort and public will yet they got done and are now accepted.)

If humanity's back is ever to the wall I fully expect a lot of them to really throw their minds into finding a solution; who knows, they might find one. Most of the populace is already willing to accept that clean energy is needed in the long run and as more of the old fossils die off or loose power it might be possible to make a difference.
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by loomer »

Well, the thing is that our back already is to the wall. It has been for the last two decades.
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

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I'd say that we've been pushed closer and closer to the wall over the past few decades rather than actually against it.
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by Solauren »

Darth Yan wrote: 2022-07-24 03:39am I'd say that we've been pushed closer and closer to the wall over the past few decades rather than actually against it.
Meanwhile, I view us as over the wall, flipped over, and and holding on to it with our chest and upper arms. Problem is, our arms are 'asleep', and the wall is slippery....
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by Gandalf »

Darth Yan wrote: 2022-07-24 03:39am I'd say that we've been pushed closer and closer to the wall over the past few decades rather than actually against it.
Yes, but a lot of people will aggressively deny that any backs are to any wall because to do so would mean acknowledging they may have been wrong all along. So like so many other things in society, it's fallen into the culture wars.
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Darth Yan
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by Darth Yan »

Hilariously enough even people who long denied global warming (Trey Parker and Matt Stone, Penn Gillette) have grudgingly come around to accepting that it's real, so I'm not completely devoid of hope.

We're going to get our ass kicked but I don't think civilization's doomed just yet. And even if it is we can rebuild
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by Broomstick »

Sure, we can rebuild - but it might be a really long timescale and the end result as different from us as we are from Ancient Rome.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Solauren
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by Solauren »

Also, we've used enough resources up, we probably couldn't even come close to what we have now if we suffer a large enough break down.

That's why I'm in favor of getting the energy infrastructure we'll probably need for food production up and running now, before it becomes critical.

Only way I can see to minimize the losses, and make it more of a 'regrow civilization' then 'rebuild civilization'.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

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Of course it is. I just don't see much of a hope for this species even if it survives climate change. Like we're too stupid and greedy.

I have really come around in the last 20 years, back then I thought the star trek TNG vision of the future was naive and also that it was bad because it was socialist or communist. Now I think that ony something like that could ever possibly ensure humanitys survival. All the other scenarious are so bad that I tihnk even dying would be better than living in said futures and I see how we're on a fas track into thoe dystopian shitholes. We're already a dystopia.
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His Divine Shadow
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Tribble wrote: 2022-07-22 10:55pm #1 way to help the environment, especially if you live in an industrialized society? Don’t have kids.
Reduce your consumption of goods and services.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
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Re: Is humanity fucked?

Post by Tribble »

His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-08-04 04:40am
Tribble wrote: 2022-07-22 10:55pm #1 way to help the environment, especially if you live in an industrialized society? Don’t have kids.
Reduce your consumption of goods and services.
Both.
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