Religious chain letters

Important articles, websites, quotes, information etc. that can come in handy when discussing or debating religious or science-related topics

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Darth Wong
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Religious chain letters

Postby Darth Wong » 2008-03-29 10:07am

As we all know, there are quite a few religious chain letters out there. This thread is for posting examples of these chain letters: a potentially useful endeavour since they are often circulated only among "friendly" recipients, so people like me rarely receive them. This is one example of the genre, which was sent to me by a person E-mailing my creationtheory.org site:
From: Eagle <imeagle24@yahoo.com>
Subject: Can science disprove God?


A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays hi m and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelled your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own.

"Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it?

That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester.< BR> "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going.

A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues.

"Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.

It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

There are many religions in this world of ours. Religions designed to fulfill and bring peace to people and religions designed to weed out the people other's don't like, examples of which we see in the Middle East on the news everyday. All religions fit within this simple description. Therefore, there can be no one true religion. For they all serve a purpose and whichever one serves the individuals purpose is accepted as good or even supreme for them. It is the nature of all religions to suit the whims of humanity. All religious ideas orbit this one central idea. But there is one thing in this world of ours that is opposite of all other religious ideas: Christianity. If Christianity were a true religion, it would cater to the whims of humanity, yet instead it flies in the face of every human whim. At it's core, untainted by religious power struggles and the imperfections of human nature, CHRISTianity's most important foundation is love. Not just any love. A love that puts aside all wrongs and loves even when love is not deserved. The reason for this is because people can't live free unless they are forgiven...for everything. We seek forgiveness from those we hurt, it frees us and it opens the door to a relationship again. That's what Christianity is about. God showing us his deepest love by becoming the only sacrifice for all the things we wish we hadn't done and the ones we've yet to feel convicted for. He knew that total forgiveness was the only thing that would open the door to the friendship He meant us to have with Him. Science could never see God, but it can see what He has done. Because what He has done is observable, has been observed and has been documented. If you come across a "Christian" who says you are a sinner and you are going to hell, the truth is God has judged that "Christian." Because God commanded in the Bible that his followers should never take his place in judgment.

Christianity flies in the face of human whim, because it is that human whim and desire for whatever it can get that separated humanity from the best dad it could have in the first place. Not because people should be pure for purity's sake, but because God needs to fix what's broken and to teach us to walk a path where you can always find Him. A simpler analogy of this idea is that if two friends are so different, they will eventually find they can't be friends. One can't have a relationship with someone who can't go with them where they are in life. God made Himself a sacrifice so He could go with us where we are and help us to live the life necessary for us to eventually go with Him in return. Otherwise eventually a fork in the road will come and God will no longer go with us if we don't reciprocate a desire to be with Him.

Science can't see God, because we can't see Him. Nor can or has science ever truthfully dis-proven His existence and work. But we can see what He has done, therefore, so can science.

------ eviromental variables ------
REMOTE ADDR: 24.21.124.141
BROWSER: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20080201 Firefox/2.0.0.12

And here I thought the US Pacific Northwest (Washington State to be more specific: look up his IP) was more liberal. But I suppose there are rural imbeciles in every state. You've gotta love his E-mail and chosen name too: Eagle. Wave that flag, you brave American white Christian male! Bill O'Reilly would be proud.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Postby Metatwaddle » 2008-03-29 03:51pm

My favorite part is the way they have to make the professors unbelievably dumb to suit their story. Not even a freshman physics or engineering undergraduate student would ever say there's such a thing as cold or darkness without adding caveats.
Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things... their number is negligible and they are stupid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Postby BountyHunterSAx » 2008-03-29 04:48pm

Similar to this meme; there's another e-mail that says the same story all the way through to "The Professor sat down." Instead it says that the professor 'bowed' to the student, and that the student's name was ALBERT EINSTEIN.

Gotta love how they lie and add a false appeal to authority...gotta love how someone actually *bought* it.

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Postby BountyHunterSAx » 2008-03-29 08:59pm

ChainMail wrote:At the end of this story, it gives you two options. I think you will figure out what option I chose.

A cold March wind danced around the dead of night in Dallas as the doctor walked into the small hospital room of Diana Blessing. She was still groggy from surgery.

Her husband, David, held her hand as they braced themselves for the latest news.
That afternoon of March 10, 1991, complications had forced Diana, only 24-weeks pregnant, to undergo an emergency Cesarean to deliver couple's new daughter, Dana Lu Blessing.

At 12 inches long and weighing only one pound nine ounces, they already knew she was perilously premature.

Still, the doctor's soft words dropped like bombs.

"I don't think she's going to make it," he said, as kindly as he could.

"There's only a 10-percent chance she will live through the night, and even then, if by some slim chance she does make it, her future could be a very cruel one"

Numb with disbelief, David and Diana listened as the doctor described the devastating problems Dana would likely face if she survived.

She would never walk, she would never talk, she would probably be blind, and she would certainly be prone to other catastrophic conditions from cerebral palsy to complete mental retardation, and on and on.

"No! No!" was all Diana could say.

She and David, with their 5-year-old son Dustin, had long dreamed of the day they would have a daughter to become a family of four.

Now, within a matter of hours, that dream was slipping away

But as those first days passed, a new agony set in for David and Diana. Because Dana's underdeveloped nervous system was essentially 'raw', the lightest kiss or caress only intensified her discomfort, so they couldn't even cradle their tiny baby girl against their chests to offer the strength of their love.

All they could do, as Dana struggled alone beneath the ultraviolet light in the tangle of tubes and wires, was to pray that God would stay close to their precious little girl.

There was never a moment when Dana suddenly grew stronger.

But as the weeks went by, she did slowly gain an ounce of weight here and an ounce of strength there.

At last, when Dana turned two months old. her parents were able to hold her in their arms for the very first time.

And two months later, though doctors continued to gently but grimly warn that her chances of surviving, much less living any kind of normal life, were next to zero, Dana went home from the hospital, just as her mother had predicted.

Five years later, when Dana was a petite but feisty young girl with glittering gray eyes and an unquenchable zest for life.

She showed no signs whatsoever of any mental or physical impairment. Simply, she was everything a little girl can be and more. But that happy ending is far from the end of her story.

One blistering afternoon in the summer of 1996 near her home in Irving , Texas , Dana was sitting in her mother's lap in the bleachers of a local ball park where her brother Dustin's baseball team was practicing.

As always, Dana was chattering nonstop with her mother and several other adults sitting nearby when she suddenly fell silent. Hugging her arms across her chest, little Dana asked, "Do you smell that?"

Smelling the air and detecting the approach of a thunderstorm, Diana replied, "Yes, it smells like r ain."

Dana closed her eyes and again asked, "Do you smell that?"

Once again, her mother replied, "Yes, I think we're about to get wet. It smells like rain."

Still caught in the moment, Dana shook her head, patted her thin shoulders with her small hands and loudly announced,
"No, it smells like Him.

It smells like God when you lay your head on His chest."

Tears blurred Diana's eyes as Dana happily hopped down to play with the other children.

Before the rains came, her daughter's words confirmed what Diana and all the members of the extended Blessing family had known, at least in their hearts, all along.

During those long days and nights of her first two months of her life, when her nerves were too sensitive for them to touch her, God was holding Dana on His chest and it is His loving scent that she remembers so well.

You now have 2 choices. You can either pass this on and let other people catch the chills like you did or you can delete this and act like it didn't touch your heart like it did mine.

IT'S YOUR CALL!

This message works on the day you receive it.
Let us see if it is true.

ANGELS EXIST but some times, since they don't all have wings, we call them FRIENDS.

_________________________

Pass this on to your true friends. Something good will happen to you at 10:00 in the morning; something that you have been waiting to hear.

This is not a joke; someone will call you by phone or will speak to you about something that you were waiting to hear.

Do not break this prayer; send it to a minimum of 10 people


-AHMAD
"Wallahu a'lam"

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Postby Darth Wong » 2008-03-29 10:12pm

Metatwaddle wrote:My favorite part is the way they have to make the professors unbelievably dumb to suit their story. Not even a freshman physics or engineering undergraduate student would ever say there's such a thing as cold or darkness without adding caveats.

Well, they'd point out that it's relative. And any professor worth his salt would explain that "cold" is really just a noun for the process of cooling (albeit with an implied magnitude), which is merely a direction of heat transfer. Obviously, a direction (even if we add a magnitude to make it a vector) does not exist in the same sense that an object does.

PS. It occurs to me that it would be amusing for someone to write a corrected version of this little story, in which the professor actually responds the way a real professor would, and the fundie just keeps doggedly moving onto the next page in his script by saying "leaving that aside" or "moving on" or "let me ask you another question" or any of a number of other evasive techniques that fundies use to carry on with their presentation in real-life. We've all heard them.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Re: Religious chain letters

Postby Adrian Laguna » 2008-03-29 10:52pm

Darth Wong wrote:And here I thought the US Pacific Northwest (Washington State to be more specific: look up his IP) was more liberal. But I suppose there are rural imbeciles in every state.

The area East of the mountains is apparently a desolate wasteland that plays the literal and figurative role of the ass end of the state. I'm told it has its share of crazies.

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Postby Zablorg » 2008-03-30 04:34am

I love the students assumption in the story that evil is an absence of good. Even being a terrible analogy (they're aspects of a mind), wouldn't good and evil both technically be positives?
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Postby SilverWingedSeraph » 2008-03-30 07:37am

Zablorg wrote:I love the students assumption in the story that evil is an absence of good. Even being a terrible analogy (they're aspects of a mind), wouldn't good and evil both technically be positives?

Read it again. It doesn't say evil is the absence of good, it says that evil is the absence of GOD, a commonly held belief by Christians. Anything that is against God is evil to them, regardless of how "good" peopleus might think them to be. Inversely, if God says to do something like killing, then it is good. Because God is good, and anything that isn't God is evil.

Fucked up logic, isn't it?
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Postby wjs7744 » 2008-03-30 02:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:PS. It occurs to me that it would be amusing for someone to write a corrected version of this little story, in which the professor actually responds the way a real professor would, and the fundie just keeps doggedly moving onto the next page in his script by saying "leaving that aside" or "moving on" or "let me ask you another question" or any of a number of other evasive techniques that fundies use to carry on with their presentation in real-life. We've all heard them.
Amusing, sure, but unless you plan to send it out as a chain letter of your own, the entertainment value is pretty much all it would have going for it. I doubt you would get the same volume any other way.

EDIT:

SilverWingedSeraph wrote:Read it again. It doesn't say evil is the absence of good, it says that evil is the absence of GOD, a commonly held belief by Christians. Anything that is against God is evil to them, regardless of how "good" peopleus might think them to be. Inversely, if God says to do something like killing, then it is good. Because God is good, and anything that isn't God is evil.

Fucked up logic, isn't it?
The obvious retort to this part is that God is supposedly omnipresent, so he must want there to be evil. Which would make the idea that he defines good look pretty funny, if he deliberately inflicts evil on people.

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Postby Frank Hipper » 2008-03-30 02:32pm

Chain E-mails are just so everyday; I recieved an actual chain-letter via snail-mail in January, demanding that after I either kneel, or place the Holy Ghost, Bible Faith, Church Prayer Rug on my knees and pray for a new car etc, that I place it in a Bible on Philippians 4:19, or under my side of the bed, and then mail it back to Saint Matthew's Church in Tulsa Oklahoma, the very next morning, because (I shit you not), "timing is important to God".
:lol:

This is such a freaky-deaky artifact of Prosperity Gospel bullfuckery that it's got a place of honor in my keepsakes trunk. I thought shit like this had passed with the coming of the intardnet, it satisfies my need for entertainment that such traditional values live still.

Oh, and BTW, the "Bible Faith, Holy Ghost, Church Prayer Rug" has Magic Eye properties printed onto Jesus' eyes, it's only after they "open" that you're supposed to seclude yourself, alone, and pray for money. :P

More from a blogger about recieving this wierdness.

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Postby Metatwaddle » 2008-04-01 10:56am

RedImperator got one of those too! It's just a scam. I read somewhere that once you send in the form saying what you want them to pray for, they ask you again for money before they actually do anything else.

The Better Business Bureau seems a bit suspicious of them too.
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A Letter from the Nat'l Organization for Marriage

Postby Civil War Man » 2008-04-02 06:22pm

I would like to start things off by mentioning that my mom got this in the mail. For much of her life, she has been rather anti-establishment, very non-religious, and is absolutely livid that these people had the gall to send her this. At least when she's not wondering what idiot thought she'd be a supporter (you see, she's the only person in the household who got it, and her name's not listed in the phone book).

So for those who need practice tearing stupid arguments apart (and GALE), have at it.

All emphasis their's.

Dear Friend of Marriage,

My friend, I've never come to you with a more urgent message: Unless we act now, we will lose the battle for marriage -- not a decade from now, not "someday," but quite possibly in the next few months.

How? First Hollywood, academia and some in the medical profession launched a huge offensive over the past decade to change the attitude of Americans about the homosexual community.

They have succeeded in shaping the minds of young people against traditional marriage and intimidating and punishing anyone who offers a defense of marriage.

A sophisticated network of wealthy gay activists are now trying to exploit this change in attitudes by spending millions on stealth campaigns to defeat pro-family state legislators and pass gay marriage laws.

They are pushing the battle first where the secular left is the strongest: deep in "blue states" including New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Vermont, Rhode Island, Maryland and now even in my home commonwealth, Pennsylvania.

That's why I need you to act today, to send a check to help launch the National Organization for Marriage's 2008 State Action Plan, including a sophisticated issue ad campaign -- radio, TV, and print ads to drive home the point: don't mess with marriage.

If we don't fight back, our children and grandchildren will get harmful and confusing messages about marriage, including this one: there's no difference between same-sex and opposite-sex unions and anyone who defends marriage is a bigot.

Make no mistake, gay marriage is not about letting Adam visit Steve in the hospital or letting them do what they want in private.

Gay marriage is about using the power of government to propogate a new faith: Individuals who oppose gay marriage are hateful bigots and they and their faith community should be punished.

Why are they pushing so hard to push a gay marriage law through state legislature? Because, they want to drive a nail into the coffin of any possibility of a federal marriage amendment.

Because, once it is "normalized" in this way, they are counting on the courts and the culture to then spread gay marriage throughout the country.

Because they know that once they get government committed to the idea that traditional marriage is bigotry, like racism, they can use the power of big government to marginalize, stigmatize and repress people of faith in American life.

And because they believe people of faith like you and me have no way to fight back.

Their strategy is simple: Use the big money power of high-tech billionaires to get politicians to ignore the values and voices of regular Americans.

That means, folks like you and me who:

- Know marriage is the union of husband and wife;

- Don't want their hard-earned tax dollars used to subsidize novel family forms, and;

- Certainly do not wish their public schools to teach captive children that their parents and grandparents are evil discriminators for opposing gay marriage.

That's right, while we are tending to our jobs, going to church, and raising our families, a handful of wealthy gay men are plotting ways to use their giant fortunes to reshape the entire American political landscape in their own image.

Sound a little hard to believe? I thought so too, until I read the March 1, 2007 Atlantic Monthly article that documents the detailed plans and huge influence these men are having, led by one gay billionaire activist named Tim Gill.

The article is called "They Won't Know What Hit THem," and the subtitle pretty much says it all:

"Tim Gill has a mission: stop the Rick Santorums of tomorrow before they get started. How a network of gay political donors is stealthily...reshaping American politics."

That grabbed my attention, how about yours?

These gay marriage activists know the marriage battle will be won or lost in state legislatures.

And because they know that state legislatures are our farm team for the next generation of passionate pro-family leaders that's who the gay donors are targeting.

"t's often just a handful of people, two or three, who introduce the most outrageous legislation and force the rest of their colleagues to vote on it," says Gill. "If you could reach these few people or neutralize them by flipping the chamber to leaders who would block bad legislation, you'd have a dramatic effect."

Their goal? "[P]unish the wicked," as Gill puts it. Or, "snuff out rising politicians who were building their careers on antigay policies, before they...achieve national influence."

Their chief cautionary example of such a villain is... -- Yes, there I am again! -- "Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania."

Let's be clear here: by "punish the wicked" Gill means people like you and me who adhere to God's vision of what marriage is and what it is for.

By "outrageous legislation" he means laws that protect marriage as the union of husband and wife, and incidentally also protect faith groups from persecution by the government for our views of marriage.

In the last election cycle Gill pumped $15 million into defeating the good guys. According to the [i]Atlantic Monthly
he succeeded seventy percent of the time.

"In 2000, he gave $300,000 in political donations, which grew to $800,000 in 2002, $5 million in 2004, and a staggering $15 million last year, almost all of it to state and local campaigns."

Danny Carroll, for example, used to be speaker pro tem of the Iowa House, a rising pro-family star who had guided a state marriage amendment to passage in the Iowa House (the first step to putting it on the ballot).

Then he was targeted by rich gay activists for his leadership on marriage.

Carroll never even knew why he lost, until the Atlantic Monthly reporter pointed out to him all the $1,000 out of state checks:

"I'll be darned," said Carroll. "Denver...Dallas...Los Angeles...Malibu...there's New York again...San Francisco! I can't -- I just cannot believe this," he said, finally. "Who is this guy again?"

Who is this guy? Can we afford to let Malibu, Beverly Hills, Manhattan, and San Francisco control our country and our children and grandchildren's minds? That's why I need you to support NOM's 2008 State Action Plan immediately.

And remember: it doesn't stop with gay marriage.

When the gay marriage money comes in and "flips" a state legislature, they flip it on ALL the values issues that concern families like ours: Abortion, religion in the public square, abstinence education -- not to mention a whole lot of tax and spending issues too.

In Pennsylvania, Gill money helped the Democrats gain control of the House by only one vote.

What happens if we permit this tiny minority to reshape marriage? The next step is to use the new law the suppress the liberties of Christians.

Already:

- A Christian adoption agency -- Catholic Charities! -- has been shut down by the government because it will not do adoptions for gay married couples.

- A volunteer fireman, who risked his life to rescue fiends and neighbors in need, was told his services were no longer wanted -- because he signed a petition supporting marriage as a union of husband and wife.

- A father was arrested for trying to prevent a public school from teaching his son that gay marriage is normal.

- In New Jersey, a Methodist organization just lost part of its state tax exemption because it refused to permit civil union ceremonies on church-owned property.

How can this happen in the United States of America?

One thing I've learned to trust after 15 years on the front lines: When things look the darkest, God raises up new reasons to hope.

For those of us who are Christians, despair is a vice, and for us hope is not only a natural emotion, it's a theological virtue.

We are each called to "faith, hope and love." It's the fuel for our battles with the forces of hate who seek (in the name of tolerance!) to silence God's own truth.

And so with great hope and excitement, I learned about the launch of The National Organization for Marriage's 2008 State Action Plan

This is the start of something really big and new -- and not only on the marriage issue. It's a whole new model for getting politicians to do the right thing on traditional values.

I know politicians -- believe me! -- and nothing gets their attention like the possibility of a competent, well-funded campaign to let voters know how they really vote!

Listen to Maggie Gallagher, NOM's new president, talk about the real disconnect between the polls -- which show 60 percent of Americans oppose gay marriage -- and the politicians:

"Politicians think they can get away with ignoring what voters think on marriage. Unless that changes, gay marriage activists are going to push blue state legislators to pass gay marriage, whether the people in their state want it or not."

So she and some other folks have pulled together a brilliant team to head up NOM's 2008 State Action Plan to take on the coming marriage and religious liberty battles in the states where it will be fought.

Think about the success of the gay marriage movement: If 2 percent of the population funded by a handful of rich men can work a revolution in culture, what could 60 percent of the population -- or the most committed quarter -- do with the right tools and strategy?

We can take Gill's strategy and flip it against him: use it to protect marriage by creating the real possibility of political risk -- that politicians SHOULD feel when they vote against their own constituents' voices and values.

The National Organization's mission is to "protect marriage and the faith communities that sustain it." The team they've brought together to accomplish this mission is extraordinary.

Princeton Professor Robert George, Chairman of the Board, is a national treasure, a consistent and powerful intellectual defender of life, marriage and the natural law.

Maggie Gallagher, NOM's president, is one of the most powerful, consistent voices for marriage in the country.

I got to know Maggie well during the battles over the Federal Marriage Amendment; Maggie helped me equip senators to speak on marriage. You may know her from her syndicated column that appears in the New York Post and many Pensylvania papers as well.

Brian Brown, the dynamic young executive director (the father of five kids under the age of eight!) spent five years reviving and running the successful Family Institute of Connecticut, so he knows what it is like to fight for marriage deep in blue-state territory.

But don't take my word for it alone: Dr. James Dobson personally donated $25,000 to the National Organization for Marriage. Why? "It's not just marriage that is at stake, it's absolutely everything." Dr. Dobson said it on a recent Focus on the Family broadcast in which he invited Maggie Gallagher and Prof. George to speak about the National Organization for Marriage.

On the October 10 Focus on the Family radio broadcast, Dr. James C. Dobson urged pro-family Americans to do something about it.

"This has been an ongoing struggle that burns in our hearts," Dr. Dobson says. "And now, marriage is really on the brink, and I don't know how to emphasize that more." Let's get the good fight going!

Gay marriage activists have to depend on a handful of very wealthy men, because they cannot count on the broad support of the American people. They know politicians who listen to your views and values will vote for marriage as the union of husband and wife.

Together, with God's help, there is no limit on what we can accomplish.

But we cannot do the work without the tools. We need your help to put NOM's 2008 State Action Plan to work for your values, including:

- To launch a billboard campaign targeting state legislators who promised to vote for marriage and then broke their word. (For an example, see www.nationformarriage.org)

- To develop radio and TV ads and launch a sophisticated new media campaign to let the American people know wha tthe real consequences of gay marriage will be.

- To create a national grassroots email databse of voters (segmented by state) who care about marriage and its related religious liberty issues, for state as well as national campaigns.

- To provide protection -- legal, moral, and media -- to individuals targeted by the gay lobby for their courageous stands for marriage.

Our goal? Passionate, pro-family advocacy -- with real muscle to back it up so the politicians can ignore our values no longer.

But there is one big problem. The gay millionaires are writing big checks. But most Republican donors are afraid to take on this issue, afraid their businesses and their pocketbooks will suffer if they take on the gay lobby.

So we are going to have to do it without the millionaires. It's just us this time.

<snip "give us your money. Then God will like you" paragraphs>

God bless you,
Rick Santorum


My contribution? Go through this, find all the mentions of gay billionaires and their money, and then replace all references to money with "penises". Then laugh.

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Postby Darth Wong » 2008-04-02 06:39pm

That is a fine example of the religious mindset. "Don't discriminate against us for discriminating against others!" It's like people who think that pacifists are hypocrites if they use force to defend themselves.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

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Postby wjs7744 » 2008-04-02 07:24pm

That has me torn between disgust at what those homophobic arseholes are trying to do, and amusement that my reaction to pretty much all of their examples of 'terrible, terrible things' was along the lines of "Hmm, I wonder if that's true? Be a bloody good thing if it is."

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Re: A Letter from the Nat'l Organization for Marriage

Postby Zablorg » 2008-04-03 01:08am

They have succeeded in shaping the minds of young people against traditional marriage and intimidating and punishing anyone who offers a defense of marriage.


I love this. I absolutely adore this.

So, would I get harshley critisized if I pointed out that marriage can symbolize a (would-be) permenant bond, strengthening each others trust?
Jupiter Oak Evolution!

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Postby Warsie » 2008-04-26 07:25pm

I remember these ones.

cagh-88.jpgThe other day, someone at a store in our town read that a met amphetamine lab had been found in an old farm house in the adjoining county and he asked me a rhetorical question, ”Why didn’t we have a drug problem when you and I were growing up?”

I replied: ”But I did have a drug problem when I wuz a kid growing up on the farm.” I had a drug problem when I was young: I was drug to church on Sunday morning. I was drug to church for
weddings and funerals. I was drug to family reunions and community socials no matter the weather.

I was drug by my ears when I was disrespectful to adults. I was also drug to the woodshed when I disobeyed my parents, told a lie, brought home a bad report card, did not speak with respect, spoke ill of the teacher or the preacher. Or if I didn’t put forth my best effort in everything that was asked of me. I was drug to the kitchen sink to have my mouth washed out with soap if I uttered a profane four letter word. I was drug out to pull weeds in mom’s garden and flower beds and cockleburs
out of dad’s fields.

I was drug to the homes of family, friends, and neighbors to help out some poor soul who had no one to mow the yard, repair the clothesline or chop some fire wood. And if my mother had ever known that I took a single dime as a tip for this kindness, she would have drug me back to the wood shed.

Those drugs are still in my veins; and they affect my behavior in everything I do, say, and think. They are stronger than cocaine, crack, or heroin, and if today’s children had this kind of drug problem, America might be a better place today.


found a link; this was originally a newspaper or letter or something
http://forthardknox.com/2007/12/20/a-di ... g-problem/



and

So RFG received the following story in the mail yesterday and it made us laugh so I thought I would pass it along to all of you... please forgive any typos as I had to copy it from a hard copy.... soooo primitive... I apologize for the brief language...Warning! The following post is rated B-13 (Bloggers under the age of thirteen should have their parents read it to them) by the rating commission (that’s me!).

Two things Navy Seals Are Always taught:
1. Keep your priorities in order
2. Know when to act with out hesitation
A college professor, an avowed atheist and active in the ACLU (I had to look it up), was teaching his class. He shocked several of his students when he flatly stated that once and for all he was going to prove there was no God.
Addressing the ceiling he shouted: "God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform... I'll give you exactly 15 minutes!!!!!
The lecture room fell silent. You could have heard a pin drop.
Ten minutes went by. "I'm waiting God, if your real knock me off this platform!!!"
Again after 4 minutes, the professor taunted God saying "Here I am God!!!! I’m still waiting!!!"
His countdown go to the last few seconds when a SEAL , just released from the Navy after serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and newly enrolled in the class, walked up to the professor. The SEAL hit him full force in the face, and sent the professor tumbling from his lofty platform. The Professor was out cold. The students were stunned and shocked.
They began to babble in confusion. The SEAL nonchalantly took his seat in the front row and sat silent. The class looked at him and fell silent....waiting.
Eventually the professor came to and was noticeably shaken. He looked at the Seal in the front row. When the professor regained his senses and could speak he asked "What the hell is the matter with you? Why did you do that?"
The SEAL replied "God was really busy, protecting America's soldiers, who are protecting your right to say stupid shit and act like an asshole, so he sent me!"


remember this posted on 4chan's /b/ first; found another source. Where I got this one from.

http://sandboxfiles.blogspot.com/2006/0 ... block.html

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Postby Surlethe » 2008-04-27 10:02am

Just got this the other day:

hand of God

HE is the only one that can save this country from the people that want him removed from the government. Our great nation will not stand if we delete HIM from all aspects of our government as the atheists want.

Jesus Test
This is an easy test, you score 100 or zero. It's your choice. If you aren't ashamed to do this, please follow the directions.

Jesus said, 'if you are ashamed of me, I will be a shamed of you before my Father.' !

Not ashamed Pass this on ... only if you mean it.

Yes, I do Love God.

He is my source of existence and Savior.

He keeps me functioning each and everyday.

Without Him, I will be nothing.
Without Him, I am nothing but with Him I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me.

Phil 4:13

This is the simplest test. If you Love God, and are not ashamed of all the marvelous things he has done for you.

Send this to ten people and the person who sent it to you!


Except it looked more like this:

hand of God


HE is the only one that can save this country from the people that want him removed from the government. Our great nation will not stand if we delete HIM from all aspects of our government as the atheists want.







Jesus Test
This is an easy test, you score 100 or zero. It's your choice. If you aren't ashamed to do this, please follow the directions.










Jesus said, 'if you are ashamed of me, I will be a shamed of you before my Father.' !

Not ashamed Pass this on ... only if you mean it.






Yes, I do Love God.






He is my source of existence and Savior.






He keeps me functioning each and everyday.






Without Him, I will be nothing.
Without Him, I am nothing but with Him I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me.






Phil 4:13






This is the simplest test. If you Love God, and are not ashamed of all the marvelous things he has done for you.






Send this to ten people and the person who sent it to you!


Annoying as hell.
Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp! Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

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Postby PeZook » 2008-06-09 09:56am

Here's mine:

WOW! Just when you start to lose that faith.....

TRUE STORY....

After a few of the usual Sunday evening hymns, the Church's Pastor slowly stood up, walked over to the pulpit and, before he gave his sermon for the evening, briefly introduced a guest Minister who was in the service that evening. In the introduction, the Pastor told the congregation that the guest Minister was one of his dearest childhood friends and that he wanted him to have a few moments to greet the church and share whatever he felt would be appropriate for the service.

With that, an elderly man stepped up to the pulpit and began to speak. "A father, his son, and a friend of his son were sailing off the Pacific coast," he began, "when a fast approaching storm blocked any attempt to get back to shore. The waves were so high, that even though the father was an experienced sailor, he could not keep the boat upright and the three were swept into the sea as the boat capsized."

The old man hesitated for a moment, making eye contacted with two teenagers who were, for the first time since the service began, looking somewhat interested in his story. The aged Minister continued with his story, "grabbing a rescue line, the father had to make the most excruciating decision of his life: to which boy he would throw the other end of the line. He only had seconds to make the decision. The father knew his son was a Christian and he also knew that his son's friend was not. The agony of his decision could not be matched by the torrent of waves. "as the father yelled out, 'I love you son!' he threw out the life line to his son's friend.

By the time the father had pulled the friend back to the capsized boat, his son had disappeared beneath the raging swells into the black of night. His body was never recovered." By this time, the two teenagers were sitting up straight in the pew, anxiously waiting the next words to come out of the old Minister's mouth. "The father," he continued, "knew his son would step into eternity with Jesus and he could not bear the thought of his son's friend stepping into an eternity without Jesus. Therefore, he sacrificed his son to save his son's friend. How great is the love of God that he should do the same for us.

Our heavenly Father sacrificed his only begotten son that we could be saved. I urge you to accepted His offer to rescue you and take a hold of the life line He is throwing out to you in this service." With that, the old man turned and sat back down in his chair as silence filled the room. The Pastor again walked slowly to the pulpit and delivered a brief sermon with an invitation at the end.

However, no one responded to the appeal. Within minutes after the service ended, the two teenagers were at the old man's side. "That was a nice story," politely stated one of the boys, "but I don't think it was very realistic for a father to give up his only son's life in hopes that the other boy would become a Christian." Well, you've got a point there, the old man replied, glancing down at his worn Bible. A big smile broadened his narrow face, he once again looked up at the boys and said, "it sure isn't very realistic, is it? But I'm standing here today to tell you that story gives ma a glimpse of what it must have been like for God to give up His son for me. You see---I was that father and your Pastor is my son's friend.

Take 60 seconds & give this a shot!
Let's just see Satan stop this one.
All you do is

1) simply say a small prayer for the person who sent you this,

(Father, God bless this person in whatever it is that you know he or she may be needing this day!)

2) then send it on to five other people. Within hours five people have prayed for you, and you caused a multitude of people to pray to God for other people. Then sit back and watch the power of God work in your life for doing the things that you know He loves. "Forgiveness allows your heart to be not only right, but light."

- author unknown


I have no idea what to think of that. It's obviously a made-up tale,though.

Oh, and on the matter of anti-gay chain letters: every time you get it, replace the word "homosexual", "gay" et al with "black" or even better: "nigger".

So, gay-marriage=nigger marriage. Then send the chain letter back to the guy who sent it to you.

The results are hilarious, especially when after your little alteration, you see the exact same arguments that were used in the fifites and sixties against black emancipation.

Oh, and then the assholes who send these out start squirming and weaseling and saying that this is not the same thing, honest! Some of my best friends are black, but I HATE those goddamned fags!
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.

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Postby sketerpot » 2008-06-09 12:34pm

For a huge collection of these chain letters, check out Snopes' religion category. Here's a "good" one:

A liar wrote:I can't believe it. There is a movie that is coming out in 2001 saying Jesus and his disciples were gay! There is already a play that went on for a while, but never stopped! Maybe we can all do something!

Please send this to ALL of your friends to sign to stop the movie from coming out. Already certain areas in Europe have started to ban it from coming to their country and we can stop it too! We just need a lot of signatures and you can help! Please do not delete this! Show your faith and respect for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who died for us! Please help!

PLEASE SIGN AND SEND TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW! PLEASE. IF WE WORK TOGETHER WE CAN BAN THIS!


From here. At one point the attourney general of Illinois was getting about a thousand angry phone calls and letters every week from people who believed this one during one of its incarnations and wanted to do some censorship.

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Postby Surlethe » 2008-07-31 02:47pm

Another one.

Alabama
Judge


Some of you may be wondering what Judge Roy Moore has been doing since he was removed from the bench for refusing to remove the Ten Commandments from his courtroom wall. Please read the poem he wrote. It's below his picture.

<snip>

The following is a poem written by Judge Roy Moore from Alabama . Judge Moore was sued by the ACLU for displaying the Ten Commandments in his courtroom foyer. He has been stripped of his judgeship and now they are trying to strip his right to practice law in Alabama ! The judge's poem sums it up quite well.


America the beautiful,
or so you used to be.
Land of the Pilgrims' pride;
I'm glad they'll never see.

Babies piled in dumpsters,
Abortion on demand,
Oh, sweet land of liberty;
your house is on the sand.

Our children wander aimlessly
poisoned by cocaine
choosing to indulge their lusts,
when God has said abstain

>From sea to shining sea,
our Nation turns away
>From the teaching of God's love
and a need to always pray

We've kept God in our
temples, how callous we have grown.
When earth is but His footstool,
and Heaven is His throne.

We've voted in a government
that's rotting at the core,
Appointing Godless Judges ;
who throw reason out the door,


Too soft to place a killer
in a well deserved tomb,
But brave enough to kill a baby
before he leaves the womb.

You think that God's not
angry, that our land's a moral slum?
How much longer will He wait
before His judgment comes?

How are we to face our God,
from Whom we cannot hide?
What then is left for us to do,
but stem this evil tide?

If we who are His children,
will humbly turn and pray;
Seek His holy face
and mend our evil way:

Then God will hear from Heaven;
and forgive us of our sins,
He'll heal our sickly land
and those who live within.

But, America the Beautiful,
If you don't - then you will see,
A sad but Holy God
withdraw His hand from Thee.

~~Judge Roy Moore~~

This says it all. May we all forward this message and offer our prayers for Judge Moore to be blessed and for America to wake up and realize what we need to do to keep OUR America the Beautiful.

Pass this on and let's lift Judge Moore up in Prayer. He has stood firm and needs our support.


IN GOD WE TRUST!


Typical religious right bullshit.
Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp! Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

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Postby Darth Wong » 2008-07-31 06:27pm

It's interesting that religious chain letters don't really present evidence to support their claims about society: they merely concentrate on repeating the religious right's "talking points" over and over, in various different ways. In this case, a poem. And ALL of them, without exception, praise the early days of America as some kind of golden age; do they really think those early slave drivers and ruthless native-killers were people to be admired?
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Postby CaptainChewbacca » 2008-07-31 06:42pm

Religious chain letters annoy the CRAP out of me. I don't forward them to ANYONE ever.

If you want to convert people, give them the bible. Its better than the garbage some people send me.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
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Postby Darth Wong » 2008-07-31 08:13pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Religious chain letters annoy the CRAP out of me. I don't forward them to ANYONE ever.

If you want to convert people, give them the bible. Its better than the garbage some people send me.

I've got to be honest: if you want to convert people, forget chain-letters and the Bible. Instead, be a wonderful person. If all of the Christians I knew were wonderful people, I would have a much better impression of the religion.

Instead, the country is full of Christians who think they can act like assholes and then browbeat people into believing, or even more preposterously, logically argue them into believing something that is fundamentally illogical. Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. The only thing Christians really have going for them (apart from childhood indoctrination) is Jesus' high-flying inspirational rhetoric about being absurdly generous to others, but if they don't practice what they preach, then it ain't worth shit.

The people who write these chain letters have no understanding of their greatest potential recruiting tool, which is to serve as a shining example. Of course, that's probably because they have absolutely no intention of ever doing so. They will preach in your face about Jesus' teachings, and then they'll proudly vote to fuck the poor, again.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Postby CaptainChewbacca » 2008-08-01 03:10am

When I say 'use the bible' I meant as a source for the sort of 'morality tales' that people seem to love passing around in these emails. I've gotten the marine one before SEVERAL times, and I seriously doubt a marine would strike an unarmed professor without suffering any sort of consequences.

I generally do try to live by example, though I may go overboard at times, which explains why most people in my major at university thought I was Amish.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.

You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker

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Postby Stark » 2008-08-01 04:32am

When I was a little kid, I used to read little storybooks at my grandparents place. They were your standard folk morality tales, but they weren't from the bible; they were just wierdo Tales From Judea or some shit. Those stories painted a much more positive view of the Christian relgion than the bible itself, because they were about people doing good things and not God. I don't even think god was ever mentioned.


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