Need help articulating a point

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Razorgeist
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Need help articulating a point

Postby Razorgeist » 2012-02-02 11:55pm

I was having a discussion on facebook with a friend over Mitt Romney's recent comment on not being concerned about the very poor.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/0 ... 47998.html

His point

Of course, everyone is flipping a shit about Romney saying that he's not concerned for the very poor. The fact that he ALSO said he's not concerned for the very rich seems to be lost on everyone. The exact context of the quote was him saying that he was most concerned for the middle class. He specifically stated that his focus was to prevent the middle class from becoming the very poor in the first place.

Of course, he'll be characterized as the great satan because of this.


My point

Weeeell yes and no I dont actually recall him mentioning the middle class in the interview but even in context the statement is off. He mentioned that the very poor have a safety net, well as Jon Stewert pointed out "being in a net is bad" wether or not you repair said holes the very poor and poverty stricken are the ones who need the most help and should be a top priority for a commander in chief along with the middle class. I agree with you that yes its important to prevent the middle class from becoming the very poor but the statement shows a rather disturbing disconnect.


His counterpoint

Yes, being in a net is bad...which is why he said he wants to strengthen the middle class, because if people don't become very poor in the first place the net isn't an issue.

This situation reminds me of a quote from Dom Helder Camara about the poor: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

What he wants to do is prevent people from ever GETTING poor at all; We can upgrade poverty help all we like, but if we're increasing how many people need that help, we're in a downward spiral that is impossible to sustain.

Personally, I'd prefer a president who was concerned with his job rather than any group at all. It's the job of congress to look after the people directly. The president has no legislative powers for a reason; his job is to manage the bureaucracy and deal with diplomacy. Half the damn problem here is that every new president wants to legislate and half the legislators want to be the president, and the supreme court hates both.


Now Im pretty sure that he isnt using the Camara quote in its proper context. I want to say that even after all that the statement is still wrong as it assumes that the very poor and very rich are somehow on equal footing and it shows a disconnect but Im having trouble thinking of a way to properly articulate it perhaps Im missing something else?
"You have to believe in God before you can say there are things that man was not meant to know.
I don't think there's anything man wasn't meant to know. There are just some stupid things that people shouldn't do." - David Cronenberg


"Doesn't Rush Limbaugh remind you of one of those gay guys that like to lie in a tub while other guys pee on him?" - Bill Hicks

Chirios
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Re: Need help articulating a point

Postby Chirios » 2012-02-03 03:37pm

Razorgeist's Friend wrote: Of course, everyone is flipping a shit about Romney saying that he's not concerned for the very poor. The fact that he ALSO said he's not concerned for the very rich seems to be lost on everyone. The exact context of the quote was him saying that he was most concerned for the middle class. He specifically stated that his focus was to prevent the middle class from becoming the very poor in the first place.

Of course, he'll be characterized as the great satan because of this.


That's not what he said though, is it? What he said was: "I'm not concerned about the very poor, we have a safety net there, if it needs repair I'll fix it. I'm not concerned about the very rich they're doing just fine. I'm concerned about the heart of America, the 95% of Americans who right now are struggling and I'll continue to take that message throughout the nation."

He didn't say, I'm concerned about the middle class in order to stop the middle class from becoming the very poor, he said he was flat out not concerned about the very poor. Your friend is twisting Romney's words so that they sound better than what they actually are.
Last edited by D.Turtle on 2012-02-03 08:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed the quote tags.

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Razorgeist
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Re: Need help articulating a point

Postby Razorgeist » 2012-02-03 07:26pm

Thank you for the point.
"You have to believe in God before you can say there are things that man was not meant to know.
I don't think there's anything man wasn't meant to know. There are just some stupid things that people shouldn't do." - David Cronenberg


"Doesn't Rush Limbaugh remind you of one of those gay guys that like to lie in a tub while other guys pee on him?" - Bill Hicks

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Razorgeist
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Re: Need help articulating a point

Postby Razorgeist » 2012-08-06 09:24am

Ive been having a conversation on a facebook post and I was wondering if I did this ok. This is concerning the chick-fil-a controversy and the supposed hypocracy of the left.

I've been tracking the outrage expressed by everyone when a private company donates its own money to a group that has anti gay sentiments, several millions at least.

But what of a President who donates $1.5 billion of YOUR money to an organization that has identical goals, but they'll actually stone you to death for being gay?
Spread the protesting around...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012 ... otherhood/
.

My response

Dude thats from breitbart that site has no credibility its automatically suspect.

Went and looked up more on this. This story is from march and the aid was going to the military leaders who hadn't reliquished command to the new president.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/world ... s-say.html


I was actually incorrect about this.

His response

we could have the breitbard/huffington/fox/cnn/right/left media debate all day and no one would be happy. So if we're trusting the NYtimes http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/world ... wanted=all

tl:dr Five years ago, when the Brotherhood adopted a draft party platform that called for barring women and non-Muslims from the presidency, Mr. Morsi was a chief defender of the controversial planks, inside and outside the group. He argued that Islam required the president to be a male Muslim, in part because the head of state should promote the faith".

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/world ... wanted=all

additionally, the new leader has been called and congratulated by the president, and invited to the white house.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju ... hite-house

which segues into the next article, but I dont know if this website is credible. http://www.gaymiddleeast.com/news/news%20298.htm


my response.

You're correct Morsi is president I concede that point. I havent really been a fan of many of the things the Obama administration has done nor for that matter most american foreign policy. The U.S is allies with Saudi Arabia which also has a horrible record on humanitarian causes. While Morsi is the president the military still seems to be in charge of most of the government in Egypt and they still dont like Morsi. Also while Morsi is president this aid seems to be general foreign aid for the egyptian government not the brotherhood itself which is a seperate entity. In any case these are different situations. Chick-fil-A is an american company that donates money to domestic organizations that actively campaign to prevent gays from getting equal rights. we can actively not spend money at this establishment (as opposed to tax dollars in which we have no real control over). The outrage is over that and this being turned into a free-speech, anti-christian argument by certain parties (Im looking at you Mike Huckabee) when it isn't.


I think I responded correctly but does anyone have any advice.
"You have to believe in God before you can say there are things that man was not meant to know.
I don't think there's anything man wasn't meant to know. There are just some stupid things that people shouldn't do." - David Cronenberg


"Doesn't Rush Limbaugh remind you of one of those gay guys that like to lie in a tub while other guys pee on him?" - Bill Hicks


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