sci-fi society possibility debate: need help

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HMS Sophia
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sci-fi society possibility debate: need help

Postby HMS Sophia » 2011-03-17 03:29am

I'm on a sci-fi rpg forum, and this guy is proposing a society that functions in a... very interesting way. Now I have made some responses, as have some others, pointing out problems, and he keeps talking about how it works... but something is troubling me... I'm not much of an economist or much of a... I guess psychologist, but it doesn't feel like it work, and nobody would choose to be a part of it.
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB ... sc&start=0
That's the link. Actual economics conversation starts at the bottom of page 1, but it starts getting really juicy a few pages later...
It's a very simple concept.

It's a Democratic government with a resource based economy where people are assigned positions based on merit and have the overwhelming consent of those governed.

It's a tech level 15/16 society with enough resources to fulfill all of the needs of its citizenry and nearly all of their desires.

If you have everything you need and nearly everything you want, then money becomes pointless. Most crimes also become pointless.

Corruption is much harder to conceal as it is pretty difficult to pass 5000 tons of titanium under the table. Also the penalties are much greater the higher someones status in society. But the main question would by "why would you do it in the first place?" If you are in the position to actually be bribed for 5000 tons of titanium, then you are also in the position where you can simply request just about anything you might want that the person bribed you with anyway.

Tl15 is high stellar, with FTL travel etc etc...
People work, create, invent because it is the only way to advance in society. They have a saying... "The only real currencies are 'name' and 'fame'.

A person who did not work would be ostricised by their peers and family and basically be left with nothing. No one would ever marry them.

The first step would be psych counceling to find out the persons problems with the family strongly supporting the 'sick' person. The person would probably be sent to one of the protectorate planets for a long sabbatical since they usually specialize in dealing with poeple who do not fit into the militerized republic. If the person was deemed to be uncurably mentaly ill, their citizenship would be revoked and they would become a citizen of the protectorate world. This would be done as quietly as possible, but not covered up, since most mental illnesses might bring the viability of the family bloodline into question. Families with a history of mental ilness can have a severe impact on single individuals in the family seeking a marraige mate. Murders and coverups have been known to occur.

If the person is deemed not to be mentally ill but simply lazy, this will be a mark on the family honor andthe family will eventually have to deal with this as this can also have a severe impact on single individuals in the family seeking a marraige mate.

Most likely the person will be declared 'ptah' or 'spit' wich involves an extremely humiliating public ceremony where the undividual must break his own sword and then set fire to his own belongings. He must then walk past the lines of his family and community members who turn their backs on him as he approaches. If his sins have been perticulairly grievus, then also be spat up, stripped of all clothing and even possibly lead in chains.

Ptah have a social standing of 1, are stripped of all rank and name, may not mate or even touch a sword or knife under penalty of death, must wear checkered clothing at all times, and are divorced by default from their spouses. They are then assigned to a family as a servant (slave) until such time as they earn their family name again. (Giving them a social standing of 2)

Truly corrupt officials are often secretly murdered by their own family members before such a public display of the families honor can ever come to light.

If evidence of the persons corruption are proven, and the situation has been dealt with 'in the family', rarely if ever is the investigation continued except if additional corruption is suspected. No honor is lost by a family that cleans up its own messes in fact it validates the families current honor level.

And this is where it starts getting funny. It sounds like people work only because they fear the trouble they get otherwise. I mean, a person is enslaved if they do not work. It sounds harsh, considering what some people are like...

Also, finally:
Everyone has multiple jobs. One job that directly benefits the Republic, at least one Life Persuit job of your own undertaking, and one also has the job of being a warrior. You are expected to excel at all three.

If you are middle aged and your family was granted the comissioned to build air-rafts then your 'boss' is most likely your father or another relative.The comittment level for any primary job is usually around 25+ hours per week. Your working hours are decided between you and your 'boss'. Your life persuit is usually done making whatever it is you make and teaching your apprentices.

Young people (18+) are encouraged to work outside the family at the start of their careers. The comittment level for any primary job is usually around 10-20 hours per week. Your working hours are decided between you and your 'boss'. Your life persuit is usually done at first under the guidance of a 'master' for maybe 10-20 hours a week, and after a decade or so you should have enough of a name to leave the apprenticeship and gather your own pupils. Once a week you do combat drills with your family, or the family of your 'master'. Once a month you do planet wide drills lasting 1-3 days. You practice with your sword and and guns under the appropriate 'weapons masters' maybe 3-5 times a week. 2-4 times a year you go back to your univerity to teach and take masters courses for 2-4 weeks. This is done for life until the school becomes a tech level 15 city.

If you are in or attached to the navy, then career hours are longer and the life persuit hours are less, and you might only get go back to your university 2 times a year.

Your elegibility for gaining a name is determind by how well you perform in all three of your careers, though you may only gain an additional name (+1 social status) from one of them in any particular year, during what is called "The Day of Naming".

People are reluctant to slack off because ones entire social status is based on the length of ones name, (with some adjustment derived from family honor or lack thereof) and the most direct way to add to ones name is to perform all of your jobs to excellence. The length of your name determains personal wealth, who you can marry, and titles of nobility.

It gets worse from there, posts after that one get increasingly deep into this society he has designed...
I just don't really know where to go from this point. He keeps saying "people are happy to work for the nation" when... people wont, at least I don't think so.
He has also questioned wether it would take force to hold this system together...
Any help would be greatly appreciated...
"Seriously though, every time I see something like this I think 'Ooo, I'm living in the future'. Unfortunately it increasingly looks like it's going to be a cyberpunkish dystopia, where the poor eat recycled shit and the rich eat the poor." Evilsoup, on the future

StarGazer, an experiment in RPG creation

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Spoonist
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Re: sci-fi society possibility debate: need help

Postby Spoonist » 2011-03-17 06:48am

The big question would be why bother? He has his shields raised and is not interesting in your input. There is almost nil possibility for you to change his mind. So why bother?

Does it stink? Yes.
Who cares? Only him.

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HMS Sophia
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Re: sci-fi society possibility debate: need help

Postby HMS Sophia » 2011-03-17 10:19am

Mainly cos he posted asking advice... and in trying to give it we got into this argument...
Oh well :(
Lost cause then?
"Seriously though, every time I see something like this I think 'Ooo, I'm living in the future'. Unfortunately it increasingly looks like it's going to be a cyberpunkish dystopia, where the poor eat recycled shit and the rich eat the poor." Evilsoup, on the future

StarGazer, an experiment in RPG creation


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