I am part of a social anxiety meetup group that meets monthly for discussions on improving our lives and so on. The organizer meet this... guy and invited him to speak to us this weekend. Now we actually had an actual psychologist visit us before. But our next guest, fuck! Here is his website: http://www.rapidlifechange.com/home.htm I could not believe my eyes. A gigantic list of problems from addiction to PTSD that this guy claims he can help you solve! A slogan saying, " Your problem solved , Guaranteed," which reminds me of Stewie at SDI. At the bottom of the homepage are tags including NLP and time line therapy. I cannot believe the organizer invited this guy! He even has videos up on Youtube including one titled, "Cure PTSD In One Easy Session." At this point I am thinking of contacting the organizer and the assistant organizers and voicing my concerns about this shifty guy and suggesting to get rid of him. Then again part of me wants him to be there for the hell of it, let him speak for and then argue and expose him. Predictably I am not very aggressive or a good debator. I do not even know much about this NLP and time line therapy crap. But I'd rather he not be there at all. I do not want any of my friends there falling for this guy's shit.
Could I have some advice?
Btw here is a link that apparently has this guys "qualifications." http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/site ... ewsLang=en
Neuro-linguistic programming and my meetup group
Moderator: Alyrium Denryle
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Mr Flibble
- Psychic Penguin
- Posts: 845
- Joined: 2002-12-11 01:49am
- Location: Wentworth, Australia
Re: Neuro-linguistic programming and my meetup group
I had a friend who was very keen on NLP. The things he expressed about it struck me as very cult like. NLP practitioners/believers like to claim that it can easily solve all psychological problems. These grandiose claims should require lots of evidence before they are accepted. However in the case of NLP that evidence does not appear to be present.Agme wrote:I am part of a social anxiety meetup group that meets monthly for discussions on improving our lives and so on. The organizer meet this... guy and invited him to speak to us this weekend. Now we actually had an actual psychologist visit us before. But our next guest, fuck! Here is his website: http://www.rapidlifechange.com/home.htm I could not believe my eyes. A gigantic list of problems from addiction to PTSD that this guy claims he can help you solve! A slogan saying, " Your problem solved , Guaranteed," which reminds me of Stewie at SDI. At the bottom of the homepage are tags including NLP and time line therapy. I cannot believe the organizer invited this guy! He even has videos up on Youtube including one titled, "Cure PTSD In One Easy Session." At this point I am thinking of contacting the organizer and the assistant organizers and voicing my concerns about this shifty guy and suggesting to get rid of him. Then again part of me wants him to be there for the hell of it, let him speak for and then argue and expose him. Predictably I am not very aggressive or a good debator. I do not even know much about this NLP and time line therapy crap. But I'd rather he not be there at all. I do not want any of my friends there falling for this guy's shit.
Could I have some advice?
Btw here is a link that apparently has this guys "qualifications." http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/site ... ewsLang=en
A quick google produced for me this blog which cites a number of articles on studies which have shown that there is no evidence to support the claims made by NLP practioners. I checked out a couple of the articles discussed: This one from the mid eighties shows back then NLP practioners were making the same claims about the treatments effectiveness, however no studies existed to support his claim. This abstract of a more recent study in 1990 again shows that there is no scientific evidence backing up the claims made by NLP practitioners.
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Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
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Re: Neuro-linguistic programming and my meetup group
Holy shit, this guy just reeks of scam. This excerpt alone stinks to high heaven:Agme wrote:I am part of a social anxiety meetup group that meets monthly for discussions on improving our lives and so on. The organizer meet this... guy and invited him to speak to us this weekend. Now we actually had an actual psychologist visit us before. But our next guest, fuck! Here is his website: http://www.rapidlifechange.com/home.htm I could not believe my eyes. A gigantic list of problems from addiction to PTSD that this guy claims he can help you solve! A slogan saying, " Your problem solved , Guaranteed," which reminds me of Stewie at SDI. At the bottom of the homepage are tags including NLP and time line therapy. I cannot believe the organizer invited this guy! He even has videos up on Youtube including one titled, "Cure PTSD In One Easy Session." At this point I am thinking of contacting the organizer and the assistant organizers and voicing my concerns about this shifty guy and suggesting to get rid of him. Then again part of me wants him to be there for the hell of it, let him speak for and then argue and expose him. Predictably I am not very aggressive or a good debator. I do not even know much about this NLP and time line therapy crap. But I'd rather he not be there at all. I do not want any of my friends there falling for this guy's shit.
Could I have some advice?
Btw here is a link that apparently has this guys "qualifications." http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/site ... ewsLang=en
It's like a spam E-mail. I'm surprised he didn't tell you he could enhance your penis as well. I'm pretty sure the organizer of your meeting can't possibly be stupid enough to believe this is legit. This charlatan is probably paying him a kickback in order to take over a meeting to sell his get-fixed-quick scheme. The idea that he can "cure" addictions in a single session is such utter bullshit. He probably has fantastic "testimonials" to back it up, too.Success Stories:
“Double your income and finally start living the life you want, hire Adam now! (Stephanie Frank, Best Selling Author, The Accidental Millionaire)
"My income went from $150,000 to $300,000 per year in just 2 weeks after my Personal Breakthrough Session with Adam Heller."
"I was feeling hopeless. I was going through a divorce and didn’t think I would ever feel anything other than pain. I went through Adam’s Personal Breakthrough 28, meeting all my objectives in 2 ½ weeks. I never thought I’d say it but MY LIFE IS GREAT!!"
Ultimately, it's hard to debate against a liar. The process of debate works best when both sides are honest. When one side is slightly dishonest, you can still do it. But when the other guy just flat-out lies and fabricates evidence as necessary, it's almost impossible to have a reasoned argument because you'll be forced to constantly accuse him of being a liar, and he'll accuse you of being a bad person, filled with negativity and lacking faith in mankind and the Power Of <whatever bullshit he's selling>.
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Re: Neuro-linguistic programming and my meetup group
As I'm going through psychiatric and cognitive therapy at the moment, I've some experience in what such change would entail, and the magnitude of the problem. Just glancing at the claims on this site makes me angry.
You do not "solve" ingrained behaviours, whatever the fuck that would even mean, in "one easy session" let alone decade. There is no need to debate this assclown because his whole approach is that of a man so obviously dishonest he's not even bothered to understand what treating such a problem would mean; he can't even see what a positive end result would look like. Instead he trots out this "we'll solve it for you in no time" claptrap, a well-worn standby from the toolbox of charlatans everywhere.
Altering negative behaviour and modifying ingrained responses (reasoning, emotion or even bodily response) is hard, a protracted and often painful process in which one pretty much must be an active participant during an extended period of time. You may be going up against behaviour that the brain considers to be fundamentally part of who you are, and "removing" that behaviour with some sort of mental surgical incision is simply not an option, as the changes won't stick. When you eventually begin to make headway, you may discover another fun thing - seemingly new disorders, different ones that you have no strategies against but which are in actuality fuelled by underlying problems (which you may or may not have defined to your satisfaction). Congratulations - you may have blocked off one avenue of internal pressure, but maybe there are deeper issues. Scratch 'maybe.' There are.
It is, to put things mildly, not a walk in the park, and a "breakthrough" is completely worthless. During treatment, I would during the first months experience the euphoria of breakthrough practically every session. Even though it wasn't difficult to see why it happened, it would still on occasion fool me, but luckily, none of the people treating me were ever stupid enough to think a temporary insight or successfully applied technique would solve the problem. After the novelty wore off and behaviours became less and less tractable, my doctors informed me that now, the work of addressing the real issues could start.
This asshole treats it as if it was some kind of formula, or maybe a racing event. Meet your "objectives" in as quick a time as you can manage, then presto -- you're "cured"! To anyone with prior experience of such disorders, you would look equally naïve if you took a rock, tossed it straight into the air, and, while it was still rising, confidently explained how you just invented antigravity.
Moronic though that would be, it would at least be innocent enough. This, of course, is nothing so harmless, because it preys on desperate people who don't know what's happening to them. In addition, many of them are likely to suffer from disorders that in various ways pervert the need to seek approval, to perform, and to push themselves at the expense of everything else.
A goal-based method guaranteed to work? Brilliant! Suddenly there's no need to address the real issues. Instead, why not throw yourself back into the same fucking behaviour complex that led to a psychotic break in the first place, eh? Why not integrate that sort of impulse-driven thinking and make it even harder to expunge? Push yourself for that short-term appearance of success! What could possibly go wrong?
The more I think of what this fraud is actually doing, the more it makes my blood boil.
You do not "solve" ingrained behaviours, whatever the fuck that would even mean, in "one easy session" let alone decade. There is no need to debate this assclown because his whole approach is that of a man so obviously dishonest he's not even bothered to understand what treating such a problem would mean; he can't even see what a positive end result would look like. Instead he trots out this "we'll solve it for you in no time" claptrap, a well-worn standby from the toolbox of charlatans everywhere.
Altering negative behaviour and modifying ingrained responses (reasoning, emotion or even bodily response) is hard, a protracted and often painful process in which one pretty much must be an active participant during an extended period of time. You may be going up against behaviour that the brain considers to be fundamentally part of who you are, and "removing" that behaviour with some sort of mental surgical incision is simply not an option, as the changes won't stick. When you eventually begin to make headway, you may discover another fun thing - seemingly new disorders, different ones that you have no strategies against but which are in actuality fuelled by underlying problems (which you may or may not have defined to your satisfaction). Congratulations - you may have blocked off one avenue of internal pressure, but maybe there are deeper issues. Scratch 'maybe.' There are.
It is, to put things mildly, not a walk in the park, and a "breakthrough" is completely worthless. During treatment, I would during the first months experience the euphoria of breakthrough practically every session. Even though it wasn't difficult to see why it happened, it would still on occasion fool me, but luckily, none of the people treating me were ever stupid enough to think a temporary insight or successfully applied technique would solve the problem. After the novelty wore off and behaviours became less and less tractable, my doctors informed me that now, the work of addressing the real issues could start.
This asshole treats it as if it was some kind of formula, or maybe a racing event. Meet your "objectives" in as quick a time as you can manage, then presto -- you're "cured"! To anyone with prior experience of such disorders, you would look equally naïve if you took a rock, tossed it straight into the air, and, while it was still rising, confidently explained how you just invented antigravity.
Moronic though that would be, it would at least be innocent enough. This, of course, is nothing so harmless, because it preys on desperate people who don't know what's happening to them. In addition, many of them are likely to suffer from disorders that in various ways pervert the need to seek approval, to perform, and to push themselves at the expense of everything else.
A goal-based method guaranteed to work? Brilliant! Suddenly there's no need to address the real issues. Instead, why not throw yourself back into the same fucking behaviour complex that led to a psychotic break in the first place, eh? Why not integrate that sort of impulse-driven thinking and make it even harder to expunge? Push yourself for that short-term appearance of success! What could possibly go wrong?
The more I think of what this fraud is actually doing, the more it makes my blood boil.
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
Re: Neuro-linguistic programming and my meetup group
Sorry about the long wait for a reply. I kept putting a response off.
Our guest unsuprisingly said that he did diverge with the established medical community on treating various disorders and problems. He told us a bit about time-line therapy. However it has been a while since that meeting. I cannot remember the details on it. I do distinctly remember him telling us that if you were to think of something like PSTD as a difficult thing to cope with, it will be difficult. But if you imagine that it is actually easy to get over with, it will become much easier to get over with. I cannot remember what else he said on that, like how far can you take that positive thinking concept. Could PSTD really be cured in a few days or few weeks with the help of the mindset, "its easy."
Also the guest gave us this note via email as an exercise. "When you wake up in the morning ask yourself "What would I do differently today if I no longer had my problem or If I had recovered from my problem? Among all the things that come to your mind, choose the smallest, most minimal but concrete thing and put it into practice. Every day choose a small but concrete thing as if you had already overcome your problem and voluntarily put it into practice. Every day choose something different.
Send someone a note each day telling them what you did. It is critically important to do this every day for 30 days."
Again sorry about the delayed reply; I cannot remember much. I do have some basic notes from the meeting however. I'll go down the list:
"Selection bias: Helping those who have had much help, giving them a bit more help, then taking credit for ALL of it?"" - If I remember right he said he wanted clients who were very motivated already. I suspect that this would in a way pad his claims.
"Emphasis on the unconscious" - He said just basically mentioned how automatic the unconscious is and how it can infulence us.
"Cause is greater than effect" - I can't remember anything about this except that he considered it very important.
"Believing something is hard makes it hard. Believing it to be easy, makes it easy." - Already mentioned
"Beliefs change" - I don't remember the exact significance of this. Maybe related to the previous note.
"Emphasis on self" - Don't remember any details about this at all.
And that is the end of my notes. I can't add more comments than that. Maybe I should take a psychology class next semester so I know more about the mind and behaviours.
Amusingly, the organizer is actually a financial planner. I'm not sure if I could imagine him getting any kickbacks from this guest. For fucks sake, his daughter also has social anxiety and is a regular participant of this group. I actually emailed the organizier about this guest and told him I cannot believe he invited this shifty guy. He replied back saying he might as well come since it'll be free. Also during the meetup the organizier told us a story about how even though he apparently is one of the top financial planners one time he talked to a mediocre financial planner at length, just so he could get any sort of tips or information he missed. Then he said that the same principle applies with our guest, basically he might just have something useful for us. I do kind of wish I pressed the issue, saying the two are not comparable because in the first situation at least the mediocre guy was talking within his field of expertise and probably has a proper college degree. Our guest has... some "certs" and fantastic claims?Darth Wong wrote: It's like a spam E-mail. I'm surprised he didn't tell you he could enhance your penis as well. I'm pretty sure the organizer of your meeting can't possibly be stupid enough to believe this is legit. This charlatan is probably paying him a kickback in order to take over a meeting to sell his get-fixed-quick scheme. The idea that he can "cure" addictions in a single session is such utter bullshit. He probably has fantastic "testimonials" to back it up, too.
Our guest unsuprisingly said that he did diverge with the established medical community on treating various disorders and problems. He told us a bit about time-line therapy. However it has been a while since that meeting. I cannot remember the details on it. I do distinctly remember him telling us that if you were to think of something like PSTD as a difficult thing to cope with, it will be difficult. But if you imagine that it is actually easy to get over with, it will become much easier to get over with. I cannot remember what else he said on that, like how far can you take that positive thinking concept. Could PSTD really be cured in a few days or few weeks with the help of the mindset, "its easy."
Also the guest gave us this note via email as an exercise. "When you wake up in the morning ask yourself "What would I do differently today if I no longer had my problem or If I had recovered from my problem? Among all the things that come to your mind, choose the smallest, most minimal but concrete thing and put it into practice. Every day choose a small but concrete thing as if you had already overcome your problem and voluntarily put it into practice. Every day choose something different.
Send someone a note each day telling them what you did. It is critically important to do this every day for 30 days."
Again sorry about the delayed reply; I cannot remember much. I do have some basic notes from the meeting however. I'll go down the list:
"Selection bias: Helping those who have had much help, giving them a bit more help, then taking credit for ALL of it?"" - If I remember right he said he wanted clients who were very motivated already. I suspect that this would in a way pad his claims.
"Emphasis on the unconscious" - He said just basically mentioned how automatic the unconscious is and how it can infulence us.
"Cause is greater than effect" - I can't remember anything about this except that he considered it very important.
"Believing something is hard makes it hard. Believing it to be easy, makes it easy." - Already mentioned
"Beliefs change" - I don't remember the exact significance of this. Maybe related to the previous note.
"Emphasis on self" - Don't remember any details about this at all.
And that is the end of my notes. I can't add more comments than that. Maybe I should take a psychology class next semester so I know more about the mind and behaviours.