StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Something quite strange happened to me. When i was bringing the dog in I rolled my eyes at a Fox News Ad proclaiming that they're "America's Newsroom." or something like that. and my dad just went ballistic, with asking me "DO you not believe in the American Dream?" when I tried to leave in order to avoid a conflict with my dad, he Yelled at me to stop moving away and listen to him. He then said that in "Your Socalist Utopias" (Eg. Great Britian, Germany, Any Western European/Scandavinian country) I wouldn't have lived because they would have let me die and not spend the half a milion dollars to keep a 3 month premature baby (me) Alive. He then Kept on trying to hammer that down by asking me what country I would have wanted to be born in, I responded "Great Britian or Germany" He then lashed out verbally that I wouldn't have lived. I just didn't respond to what he was saying, even when someone was on Fox News, he said, "That's one of your SOcalist Heroes." I just ignored him. I just stayed Quiet during dinner and after Dinner my Dad hugged me.

I don't bring up politics at the table or reply to any of their "Discussions' on how "America is going Socalist and that the rest of the world is worse off than America because of their Socalist leanings.", because it would be a waste of my time trying to debate with them.

I want to know if I did the right thing.

Why don't you argue with him? He's obviously a moron, but at the very least, you can hone your skills at discussing issues with an idiot who has power over you. Trust me, you'll have a boss someday and you will need this skill.

You might want to mention that the UK and Germany both have significantly lower infant mortality rates than the US (5.0 and 4.1 vs 6.9 deaths per 1000 live births - source is the CDC, a US government organisation). Obviously both countries support premature babies of any age as a matter of course; did you get some specialist treatment beyond that? Even if you did I'd be surprised if the NHS (in the UK) or basic (state-sponsored) German health insurance doesn't offer it.

Of course in the Libertarian model, premature babies only survive if their parents are well-off or they're lucky enough to be born in a generously funded charity hospital.

Of course, I'm guessing no amount of factual data will sway his views, and he'll handwave it away, or try to use his authority over you as leverage to aid his stance. So I'll second Mike's suggestion that you argue with him to hone your skills.

Tips for debating with an idiot who has power over you:

1) Never tell him he's wrong about anything. At most, say that you believe he has been misled by others.

2) Accept that he will ignore most of your points most of the time, and that you can't hold his feet to the fire when he does this. Instead, you must get used to carefully repeating the points he ignores, over and over until he's heard them so many times that his reptilian brain slowly begins to recognize them.

3) Look for areas where you can both initially agree, preferably on as basic a level as possible. Use those as a basis to work outward. For example, start with "OK, let's look at what we can agree on. We both agree that a middle-class person with a good job should not be driven into bankruptcy because he got cancer, right?" And then show how the insurance companies can and do allow this to happen.

4) Try to phrase conflicts so that you and him are both on the same side against a common enemy, rather than the two of you being enemies. Instead of "American health-care system", keep referring to it as "the insurance companies" and keep hammering him with examples of what they can do, and how they profit handsomely from it and even award bonuses to their employees when they screw customers (thus showing that it's a pattern, not just a few isolated incidents). Take his mindless flag-waving out of the equation if you can.

A lot of these techniques can be rather patronizing if not executed correctly, so be careful not to sound as if you are talking down to him. Morons hate it when you treat them like what they are.

Darth Wong wrote:4) Try to phrase conflicts so that you and him are both on the same side against a common enemy, rather than the two of you being enemies. Instead of "American health-care system", keep referring to it as "the insurance companies" and keep hammering him with examples of what they can do, and how they profit handsomely from it and even award bonuses to their employees when they screw customers (thus showing that it's a pattern, not just a few isolated incidents). Take his mindless flag-waving out of the equation if you can.

My father is a staunch Republican and i'm, well not. But a prime example of this tactic I used was during the 2008 Democratic Primaries. BOTH of us could agree that Hillary Clinton was a backstabbing, lying, deceitful witch. I would often start off or finish political disagreements between us in that way. We also both agree that Employee Unions have more or less become political tools of manipulation, and are more interested in furthering their own goals. Most Unions have become just as exploitive and controlling as the companies they claim to balance against.

Amazingly, their are still a handful or so of issues Modern Republicans have fairly reasonable views on. They're hard to find but they're there.

Unions, missile defense, military spending and... I think that is it.

There should be a "How to deal with stupidity in all its forms" sticky. At the very least, people like Wes could benefit greatly from such a thread.

^seconded. For beginners it would be tremendously useful. But more importantly, even an expert debater can have trouble in situations such as the one at hand (discussing aganist someone with power over you), so these tips can be invaluable.