I commented on this:
I woke up this morning to see this as a reply:I am rather curious, exactly how much do illegals cost? It's not jobs, because they only take the jobs for rates no legal resident would, and those jobs are only available because no one in power is willing to prosecute companies who offer them to illegals at those rates. It's not taxpayer dollars because 1) illegals receive no federal benefits ... See Morelike welfare and unemployment as they aren't citizens, and 2) illegals pay the exact same sales on everything they buy, just like everyone else. It's definitely not terrorism, as it's shown that over 90% of terrorists immigrate to the US through entirely legal means (as in not hopping over the border).
Even if illegals are such a huge cost to people, exactly what is going to be done to stop them? Build a bigger, better wall? The Berlin wall is the best, most ruthlessly enforced border in recent history, yet over six hundred people a year managed to get through those several miles of concrete, barbed wire, spotlights and armed guards before the wall was taken down. Where is the several billion needed to enforce that sort of wall going to come from today? How about the several hundred billion it will take to build a wall a couple hundred times that size to cover the entirety of the border? And even then, extrapolating from Berlin's average, that's still a couple hundred thousand still getting over our border every year.
Even more pressing: What good is a wall supposed to do when over half the illegal immigrants in the US entered the country legally and merely overstayed their visas?
If we want to stop illegal immigration, why not actually go after the causes, rather than just uselessly deporting the symptoms? 1) Decriminalize and federally regulate marijuana, which will remove the incentive to run it over the border, provide a huge source of taxable revenue for the economy, and take the drug cartels' biggest source of income out from underneath them, 2) Aggressively prosecute companies that hire illegals at vastly reduced wages. If they don't hire, then illegals lose their other biggest incentive to come over here, 3) Introduce massive prison reform aimed at actually rehabilitating people, rather than simply incarcerating them. Prison is the breeding ground of gang and drug-related violence in the US, reforming it would go a long way towards solving both these problems, which also happen to be problems strongly associated with illegal immigration.
It's one thing to 'talk tough' and say you'll build a bigger wall to stop immigration. It's another to actually look at the issue and realize building a wall won't solve anything and just cost a lot of taxpayer money.
Unfortunately I have to eat and leave for work at my new job in twenty minutes, so I don't have the time to reply yet. I was just wondering if anyone had links to some actually relevant studies handy... or if you're feeling particularly proactive, if anyone wanted to help me take this apart.I would love to address some of the points Damien makes in his fb post.
The first question you asked was, “exactly how much do ILLEGALS cost?”
Answer: “Arizona state treasurer Dean Martin says his state loses between $1.3 billion and $2.5 billion each year on illegal immigrants. In addition to the fiscal costs of incarcerating and educating ... See Moreillegal immigrants and their families, Arizona also faces a variety of other indirect costs.”
After that there are so many inaccurate arguments, I almost don’t know where to begin.
Myth #1) “It's not jobs, because they only take the jobs for rates no legal resident would” FALSE
Studies show that as soon as employers dump their ILLEGAL employees that LEGAL citizens rush to fill the jobs that become available. Especially teens who have been all but completely replaced in the work force by ILLEGALS.
Here is a 2 minute news story to prove this point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QqW9spi ... r_embedded
Myth #2) “It's not taxpayer dollars because 1) illegals receive no federal benefits like welfare and unemployment as they aren’t citizens.” FALSE
YOU CAN’T BE SERIOUS!?
Do you really believe that just because they are ILLEGAL that they don’t get government handouts like food stamps, welfare and health care? WOW! So naïve and misinformed.
Here is a short 4 minute news story that will help you see just one of the ways that ILLEGALS are costing US Tax payers money. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4000446n
Also, from a news report on how much ILLEGALS cost America.
“A new report from Numbers USA, which advocates for limits on immigration into the United States, says each American paid $330 last year to provide government services for illegal aliens.
Numbers USA staffer Chad MacDonald said if an amnesty plan becomes law, allowing illegals coast-to-coast to suddenly establish citizenship, their retirement program will set U.S. taxpayers back an estimated $2.6 trillion.” Here is a link to the entire article: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=141985
In California over 30% of the inmate population is ILLEGAL! So to answer your question again, that is another way they cost the tax payers money. It isn’t cheap to incarcerate ILLEGALS. Nor is it cheap to rehabilitate them as you suggested, yet another way ILLEGALS cost our states money.
Not to mention that the ILLEGALS don’t pay income tax on the money they earn since much of it is paid in cash under the table. States lose HUGE amounts of money in lost income tax from these ILLEGAL employees.
Myth #3) “Decriminalize and federally regulate marijuana, which will remove the incentive to run it over the border.”
LOL You must have been stoned when you wrote this! LOL
So decriminalizing pot will stop the drug cartels from running it across the border?
OK, so what about the heroin, coke, meth and other ILLEGAL drugs they run across the border? I guess you are in favor of decriminalizing heroin and meth too?
Comparing the Berlin wall to a secure border wall is apples to oranges but I will engage you on this anyway. The money could come from the so called “war on terror” on which we are spending TRILLIONS in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don’t think it will cost several billion dollars but even if it was hundreds of millions, it is only a drop in the bucket compared to the TRILLIONS that they are spending in the middle east. If they are serious about fighting this war on terror then they should put troops on the border to stop the flow of criminals and terrorists that are just waltzing into our country unchecked.
Also, I would love to see where you got the statistic for this statement, “as it’s shown that over 90% of terrorists immigrate to the US through entirely legal means (as in not hopping over the border)”
Did they get the terrorists to respond to a poll or something?? That is just hilarious.
You stated around 600 people a year would make it over the Berlin wall. We have about 12,000 ILLEGALS per DAY entering the US and over half of those come through AZ! Extrapolate that and you get 4MILLION/YEAR!
Here is a quote from an article on the numbers, “and that up to 12,000 illegal aliens enter the United States every day, or, as Arizona Senator John McCain reports - more than 4 million per year.”
Here is a link to that article: http://www.desertinvasion.us/data/invasion_numbers.html
If we could reduce that to just 600/year it would be a HUGE reduction and worth every penny to build that wall.
Besides building the wall will put LEGAL tax paying American citizens to work and give American businesses contracts and business which is another plus.
Look, it’s not the ILLEGAL that overstayed his work visa that we are worried about. It’s not the migrant farm worker trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. They are just a small percentage of the ILLEGAL population. Sure they are draining the system and our hard earned tax money and aren’t good for our country either but, it’s the gang members, drug cartels, hardened criminals and terrorists that present the biggest immediate threat to the safety and welfare of LEGAL tax paying US citizens.
I won’t even approach the topic of amnesty right now as this is getting way longer than I wanted it to but I will say this, do you have any idea how severe the strain would be on an already floundering economy if Obama grants amnesty (basically gives citizenship) to over 12 million ILLEGALS!? Not to mention that it is completely unfair to all those who came before and EARNED their citizenship LEGALLY!
You did make one good point with regards to “aggressively prosecuting companies who hire ILLEGALS at vastly reduced wages” But what happens when they try? Look at Sheriff Arpaio and how he is ripped and ridiculed in the media when he tries to go after employers who engage in the hiring of ILLEGALS.
The bottom line is this, deportation of ALL ILLEGALS is what this country needs right now. NOT INCARCERATION! That still costs us money.
NOT AMNESTY! Amnesty is rewarding ILLEGALS for entering the country ILLEGALLY!
STOPPING THE FLOW OF ILLEGALS INTO OUR COUNTRY IS A HIGH PRIORITY AND SHOULD BE HANDLED BY THE FEDS AND STATES. (but the Feds aren’t doing it so border states like AZ have to do it on their own!)
In conclusion, “WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND!”
I STAND WITH ARIZONA! And suggest you all do too!
http://www.facebook.com/StandWithArizona
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Oh, one more thing. Here is a short video on WHO exactly is coming across our unsecured border. I guess these terrorists didn't participate in the poll that suggests 90% of terrorists enter the US legally.
http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html
It's only 3 minutes long and WELL WORTH THE WATCH!