SD+SB in Middle Earth

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Postby Cpt_Frank » 2003-02-20 08:43am

Perinquus wrote:In terms of effectiveness its equal or superior to the Remington, true, but it's not as easy to manufacture. That's the key. What can you start off with that's reliable and accurate, but easy to churn out in very large quantities under even relatively primitive conditions? The rolling block's the best overall in that regard. Later, when a somewhat more advanced industrial plant has been established, a more advanced design would be a better bargain, but to start off with, keep it simple.


We have a machine shop at our base right?
So we could make them with relative ease, although the natives could not.
On the other hand, after 2 years we're probably finished anyway, although personally I'd like to stay a bit in ME, help speed up industrial revolution and build up a WWI style army :P
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Postby Perinquus » 2003-02-20 08:56am

Cpt_Frank wrote: We have a machine shop at our base right?
So we could make them with relative ease, although the natives could not.
On the other hand, after 2 years we're probably finished anyway, although personally I'd like to stay a bit in ME, help speed up industrial revolution and build up a WWI style army :P


It's not quite that simple. You could make probably three or four rolling blocks in the time it would take you to turn out one Chassepot. Ask yourself, what would be more effective: given a year's time, to make 5,000 Chassepots, or 20,000 Remingtons? Or to put it another way - what is more advantageous when you start recruiting locals: to be able to field 20,000 infantry who are five times as effective as anyting known in this world so far, or 5,000 infantry who are ten times as effective?

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Postby Cpt_Frank » 2003-02-20 10:13am

Perinquus wrote:It's not quite that simple. You could make probably three or four rolling blocks in the time it would take you to turn out one Chassepot. Ask yourself, what would be more effective: given a year's time, to make 5,000 Chassepots, or 20,000 Remingtons? Or to put it another way - what is more advantageous when you start recruiting locals: to be able to field 20,000 infantry who are five times as effective as anyting known in this world so far, or 5,000 infantry who are ten times as effective?


Well I guess it's a beginning.
(We'd also need to produce ammo with metal cases though.)
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Postby Enforcer Talen » 2003-02-20 01:54pm

I think mordor can be beaten in the first 5 yrs of arrival - but setting ourselves up as kings with the agro military policy afterwards sounds fun.

can we make one plane to carry the encased ring to mt doom, or do we have to use jeeps?
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Postby Typhonis 1 » 2003-02-20 02:13pm

Wy not ally ourselves with the great eagles? If we can get there help we can have mounts that can fly .*VEG* they could escort an airship we build to Mordor
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Postby neoolong » 2003-02-20 02:16pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Wy not ally ourselves with the great eagles? If we can get there help we can have mounts that can fly .*VEG* they could escort an airship we build to Mordor


Yes, but would the eagles want allies? Would they want to fight directly?
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Postby Keevan_Colton » 2003-02-20 02:16pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Wy not ally ourselves with the great eagles? If we can get there help we can have mounts that can fly .*VEG* they could escort an airship we build to Mordor


And due to a lack of fingers they cant be tempted to use the one ring :lol:
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Postby Enforcer Talen » 2003-02-20 02:17pm

the eagles. that's brilliant. they fought in the war - I think they may send 3 eagles as preemptive strike.
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Postby MKSheppard » 2003-02-20 02:54pm

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I got it mixed up with Tabun, lol
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Postby Sea Skimmer » 2003-02-20 04:22pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:the eagles. that's brilliant. they fought in the war - I think they may send 3 eagles as preemptive strike.


In the book they consider giving the Eagles the ring to carry to Mt. Doom but rejected it because they be too easily spotted and stopped.
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Postby Sea Skimmer » 2003-02-20 04:24pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:I'd say we should concentrate on the Chassepot.
It's at least equal to the Remington and we have the advantadge that I can bring one along as a pattern and that I'm familiar with this rifle.


The Chassepot was neither cheep nor quick or easy to build. We dont need the extra power, really we dont need breach loaders at all.
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Postby Durandal » 2003-02-20 05:26pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:the eagles. that's brilliant. they fought in the war - I think they may send 3 eagles as preemptive strike.


In the book they consider giving the Eagles the ring to carry to Mt. Doom but rejected it because they be too easily spotted and stopped.


So put a couple of men on one eagle with assault rifles.
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Postby Perinquus » 2003-02-20 05:31pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
The Chassepot was neither cheep nor quick or easy to build. We dont need the extra power, really we dont need breach loaders at all.


But we can still make the rolling block almost as easily as any muzzle loader. Manufacture of the barrel is actually simpler, as you can bore it straight through. The mechanism of the rolling block is also just about the simplest of any breech loader ever made, yet at the same time, was very strong, and capable of great accuracy. Provided you can draw and form brass cartridge cases, there really isn't any advantage to sticking with muzzle loaders.

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Postby Enforcer Talen » 2003-02-20 08:41pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:the eagles. that's brilliant. they fought in the war - I think they may send 3 eagles as preemptive strike.


In the book they consider giving the Eagles the ring to carry to Mt. Doom but rejected it because they be too easily spotted and stopped.


in what chapter? I have no memory of that.

and also, who will stop them? the nazgul who dont have wings?
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Postby Coyote » 2003-02-20 09:40pm

Political reality being what it is, we won't be handing out Chassepaut rifles to everyone. Our closest, strongest and most reliable allies would get that, others might get flintlocks or something like that, while others would get modern-style crossbows. It sure would be embarrassing to either see our own weapons turned against us, or cause a civil war from social upheaval as a new-forged empire gets power hungry.

Ane Elves wouldnever use anything as unmannerly and inelegant as firearms; we might give them fancy crossbows as a first pick.

Other inventions would be the washboard, the foot-pedal sewing machine, and other workaday stuff that makes people's lives easier-- thus making the average people our allies as well as the nobility.
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Postby Enforcer Talen » 2003-02-20 09:43pm

I wonder if we can get the steward of gondor and the king of rohan to make a bet with us - if we destroy mordor in 3 days, they swear loyalty to us. if we dont, we swear loyalty to them.

then we send in an eagle with ring, and have a nice large kingdom to distrubute tech to. . . with a loyal base of lords fom sd.net keeping an eye on things.
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Postby neoolong » 2003-02-20 09:46pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:the eagles. that's brilliant. they fought in the war - I think they may send 3 eagles as preemptive strike.


In the book they consider giving the Eagles the ring to carry to Mt. Doom but rejected it because they be too easily spotted and stopped.


in what chapter? I have no memory of that.

and also, who will stop them? the nazgul who dont have wings?


Don't they have fell beasts or something?
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Postby Enforcer Talen » 2003-02-20 09:47pm

where?
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Postby Durandal » 2003-02-20 11:19pm

neoolong wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:the eagles. that's brilliant. they fought in the war - I think they may send 3 eagles as preemptive strike.


In the book they consider giving the Eagles the ring to carry to Mt. Doom but rejected it because they be too easily spotted and stopped.


in what chapter? I have no memory of that.

and also, who will stop them? the nazgul who dont have wings?


Don't they have fell beasts or something?


They won't be active until 18 years after we take the Ring or so. For all we know, they could be playing with their nether-cocks.
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Postby Enforcer Talen » 2003-02-20 11:57pm

Id like to know where these nether beasts are mentioned. I know some are at the battle of the black gate, but none of them fly - so dont enter into the equation.
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Postby neoolong » 2003-02-21 01:17am

Durandal wrote:
neoolong wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:the eagles. that's brilliant. they fought in the war - I think they may send 3 eagles as preemptive strike.


In the book they consider giving the Eagles the ring to carry to Mt. Doom but rejected it because they be too easily spotted and stopped.


in what chapter? I have no memory of that.

and also, who will stop them? the nazgul who dont have wings?


Don't they have fell beasts or something?


They won't be active until 18 years after we take the Ring or so. For all we know, they could be playing with their nether-cocks.


Ok, to tell the truth I read the books really really fast in one night.

I got that from the movie. But I could have sworn it was mentioned in the books somewhere.
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Postby Typhonis 1 » 2003-02-21 04:50am

Thought I would mention the Eagles they were in the Hobbit and at the End of LOTR so figured we could ask for there help if we payed them in say cattle and sheep?
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Postby Balrog » 2003-02-21 02:44pm

The Nazgûl do have Fell Beasts they fly into battle on. They've been mentioned riding on them in all three books (at least 2 of them :D )
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

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Postby Darth Wong » 2003-02-21 02:52pm

Balrog wrote:The Nazgûl do have Fell Beasts they fly into battle on. They've been mentioned riding on them in all three books (at least 2 of them :D )

Target practice for .50cal guns.
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Postby Balrog » 2003-02-21 02:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Balrog wrote:The Nazgûl do have Fell Beasts they fly into battle on. They've been mentioned riding on them in all three books (at least 2 of them :D )

Target practice for .50cal guns.


I think we already went over that Wong :roll:

They were just asking if the Nazgûl had flying beasts.
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring


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