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I read that there is bad weather (rain) in PA, VA and NC.

There is that "wisdom" that rain on election day generally helps the GOP. Is there any truth on this? It would be fucking stupid if everything gets ruined only because they (the voters) don't want to get wet. Or is the importance high enough that people will vote anyway?

I pray that it won't ruin everything.

I still don't understand why voting has to be such a tedious process that people have to line up for hours to do it. When I voted in our recent Canadian federal election, it took less than five minutes. It's almost as if they're trying to actively discourage voting in the US.

Darth Wong wrote:I still don't understand why voting has to be such a tedious process that people have to line up for hours to do it. When I voted in our recent Canadian federal election, it took less than five minutes. It's almost as if they're trying to actively discourage voting in the US.

When you see details as to why this is in one instance or another, it very often comes down to a huge ratio between voters and polling machines.

Ohio has now a law on the books that you need one machine for every 175 registered voters in a precinct, thanks to 2004. Virginia, as Olbermann (or it might've been MSNBC's Rachael Maddow, who is on directly after Keith) pointed out in one precinct had one for every 357. Combine with this the fact that it's the USA, and there's bound to be more than a few electioneering attempts by the GOP, record turn out, and other random insanity.

Tribun wrote:I read that there is bad weather (rain) in PA, VA and NC.

There is that "wisdom" that rain on election day generally helps the GOP. Is there any truth on this? It would be fucking stupid if everything gets ruined only because they (the voters) don't want to get wet. Or is the importance high enough that people will vote anyway?

I pray that it won't ruin everything.

Tribun, do everyone a favor and SHUT THE FUCK UP! You're nothing but a fucking Chicken Little running around with its head cut off and screaming that the sky is falling. Almost every time you have posted anything related to this election, you have been talking out of your ass and shitting out of your mouth and everyone here is sick and tired of it. So if you have nothing but more of the same, just fucking log off and come back after a week. Or as far as I'm concerned, I'll be just as happy if you don't come back at all.

Even if there is some effect from possible bad weather, there is no reason to expect that it will "ruin everything" as per your whining.

Fucking moron.

People keep talking about the Bradley effect. Might it not be argued that there is a similar effect with socialism? Specifically, with voters who proudly say they would never vote for anything which sounds socialist, but who might stand there on election day in the booth and say "you know, I wouldn't mind if some of those rich folks' money got spread around to people like me"?

Darth Wong wrote:People keep talking about the Bradley effect. Might it not be argued that there is a similar effect with socialism? Specifically, with voters who proudly say they would never vote for anything which sounds socialist, but who might stand there on election day in the booth and say "you know, I wouldn't mind if some of those rich folks' money got spread around to people like me"?

Its doubtful in asmuch as there is not, and really hasn't ever been, a social taboo associated with disliking socialism. The reason the Bradely affect ever existed is that the conversation of mainstream america was finally moving in the 80s and 90s towards disallowing the kind of blatantly rascist shit that was the norm in the 50s, 60s, and 70s (not saying we got there just that we were moving there). In turn the beginnign of the PC movement led to a sort of quiet presumed pressure to not admit that racism was a driving factor in candidate choice. There hasn't been any sort of such pressure in regards to socialism or any other notable category that I am aware of. Homosexuality might count but I am unaware of any truly high profile case where this has happened.

CmdrWilkens wrote:Its doubtful in asmuch as there is not, and really hasn't ever been, a social taboo associated with disliking socialism.

I think you've got my idea backwards: I'm saying there's a social taboo against liking socialism, not disliking it. So people will feel pressure to say how much they love the free market and despise socialism, while privately thinking "I don't like those rich assholes".

Does any other country in the world even fuck around with those pointless "voting machines" that appear (to me) to be responsible for the lines? I mean really, tick the box on the paper, put it in the slot, it's not hard. Australia has on the order of a dozen disposable cardboard booths for voting at each polling place. I just don't get it.

Vympel wrote:Does any other country in the world even fuck around with those pointless "voting machines" that appear (to me) to be responsible for the lines? I mean really, tick the box on the paper, put it in the slot, it's not hard. Australia has on the order of a dozen disposable cardboard booths for voting at each polling place. I just don't get it.

There are forces trying to introduce them in Germany. Fortunately they haven´t succeeded yet, but i think they´ll manage to do so sooner or later.

I can't think of one.

I suspect an American will shortly come in and tell us that the solution that works in the entire rest of the world won't work for them.

Vendetta wrote:I can't think of one.

I suspect an American will shortly come in and tell us that the solution that works in the entire rest of the world won't work for them.

The solution that works in the entire rest of the world won't work for us!

Honestly, I don't think anyone thinks much of it. People bitch about it, but everyone is so used to waiting in lines to vote that it's just commonly accepted, at least from what I've seen.

In 2007 I voted in a small-town referendum election with a pencil-and-paper ballot, and I still had to wait in line. It's probably got as much to do with the layout and size of the polling place as anything else, but absentee ballots are so easy to get now that it's a very avoidable annoyance.

Simplicius wrote:In 2007 I voted in a small-town referendum election with a pencil-and-paper ballot, and I still had to wait in line. It's probably got as much to do with the layout and size of the polling place as anything else, but absentee ballots are so easy to get now that it's a very avoidable annoyance.

That's the way I voted this year and after I finish moving I'll probably register with California as a permanent mail-in voter.

Simplicius wrote:It's probably got as much to do with the layout and size of the polling place as anything else

Sounds like you need more polling stations open longer hours then. Here, pretty much every primary school is a polling station on election days, that means that even quite small towns will have at least two, and they're open pretty late to allow people to go after work.

Vendetta wrote:

Simplicius wrote:It's probably got as much to do with the layout and size of the polling place as anything else

Sounds like you need more polling stations open longer hours then. Here, pretty much every primary school is a polling station on election days, that means that even quite small towns will have at least two, and they're open pretty late to allow people to go after work.

That's where most polling stations are located (in schools). I've been voting absentee for the last 8-10 years, but before that I don't remember there being any lines. I wonder if Washington State has just always been more efficient than other states?

My polling location is in a church and it took me about 5 minutes to vote. We had paper ballots though so that may have been a deciding factor.

Darth Wong wrote:I still don't understand why voting has to be such a tedious process that people have to line up for hours to do it. When I voted in our recent Canadian federal election, it took less than five minutes. It's almost as if they're trying to actively discourage voting in the US.

That's easy. Just don't provide enough polling places and voting machines in poor districts. I voted this morning in a mostly white, middle class district and I was in and out in five minutes, and that was with me checking three times to make sure I'd voted properly in every race.

Why are we so openly and even in law and administration openly plutocratic and anti-democratic?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Why are we so openly and even in law and administration openly plutocratic and anti-democratic?

"All politics is local"
Voter suppression happens on both sides locally. The difference is the Democrats aim to suppress on specific issues(Example given was Dem poll workers tossing out Native American Ballots to prevent a Casino) while the Republicans practice voter suppression as a general principle because their voters are more rabid.

Darth Wong wrote:People keep talking about the Bradley effect. Might it not be argued that there is a similar effect with socialism? Specifically, with voters who proudly say they would never vote for anything which sounds socialist, but who might stand there on election day in the booth and say "you know, I wouldn't mind if some of those rich folks' money got spread around to people like me"?

In past UK elections there's been the opposite effect with people saying they'd vote to increase taxes and redistribute because it's seen as morally good and then not doing so when it comes to actually doing it. I do realise that that's under quite different circumstances to this election though.

Darth Wong wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote:Its doubtful in asmuch as there is not, and really hasn't ever been, a social taboo associated with disliking socialism.

I think you've got my idea backwards: I'm saying there's a social taboo against liking socialism, not disliking it. So people will feel pressure to say how much they love the free market and despise socialism, while privately thinking "I don't like those rich assholes".

Yup I had you backwards. That being said I just don't see it developing in part because nobody really polls on "socialism" and the general trend of polling should serve as the best indication of whether that paticular label has any weight. Given that the polls tightened then opened back up (possibly statistical noise possibly the holiday weekend) it suggests that the attack had little weight. Since there was no shift it would seem to indicate that folks saying they wouldn't vote for Obama because he was a socialist (a neccessarry pre-requisite for a masked effect) never materialized. I think its because the GOP faithful are the ones most susceptible to the "socialism" label but they already weren't voting for Obama so they couldn't suddenly shift their vote to McCain and then back to Obama.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Why are we so openly and even in law and administration openly plutocratic and anti-democratic?

Because if you talk enough about being the Greatest Democracy on Earth it no longer has to be true. In many people's minds, America is democracy and democracy is America, something which manifests in its foreign policy where people expect countries to transform into mini-Americas when democracy is introduced. It works in reverse at home, too, with people being completely unwilling to accept that there are serious flaws in the American electoral system and dismissing anyone who suggests such a thing as a conspiracy theorist.

New York uses older, mechanical voting machines. I voted early this morning, had about a five minute wait. No big deal in my book. *shrug*

RedImperator wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:I still don't understand why voting has to be such a tedious process that people have to line up for hours to do it. When I voted in our recent Canadian federal election, it took less than five minutes. It's almost as if they're trying to actively discourage voting in the US.

That's easy. Just don't provide enough polling places and voting machines in poor districts. I voted this morning in a mostly white, middle class district and I was in and out in five minutes, and that was with me checking three times to make sure I'd voted properly in every race.

Who controls how many voting machines there are per citizen in any given district, and why isn't it a scandal that poor black people are discouraged from voting?

I'm guessing state government. Which, of course, is partisan, and therefore has a vested interest in producing a certain kind of result.