Something big

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Sea Skimmer
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Re: Something big

Post by Sea Skimmer »

fractalsponge1 wrote:
This is *exactly* how I would design it. I've been mulling over what a fortress system, or at least one valuable enough to really defend in depth, actually looks like. I was thinking shipyard world (lots of onsite fabrication potential, rare enough to be galactic strategic assets) - if the orbital facilities are big enough to be unitary like Kuat they would have their own planetary scale shield (or shields), or if widely distributed in orbit dreadnought-scale shielding on individual facilities (by capacity though perhaps not dissipation).
They could also have shield bubbles projected from the planet surface like the DS2 shield, the question is firstly if these installations are actually in orbit, or held up by repulsors over a fixed point above a planet. Safety in general would favor higher orbits then lower ones, but a lower orbit over a shielded world would be harder for the enemy to attack.

If you have large scale durasteelmaking you've also got to consider what you can do with a large supply of slag from that. Like sintering it together into giant blocks of fortress armor, like a bullshit form of metal foam armor, sandwiched with normal plates of durasteel armor. That would be one way to give your forts tremendous mass.
1) Literally doubled starfort - one on top, mirrored on the bottom. Big single weapon mount or large weapon cluster top and bottom, with turret batteries layered on the glacis. Symmetrical in z, so can be flipped, or can cover both hemispheres with fire. This would be the semi-mobile system-wide forts - kept in interplanetary space to prevent raids and keep attacking ships from close orbit. Maybe points of a cube format around the main planet. Expansion of the pattern would simply be limited to the resources of the planet.
I was thinking more like a single big casemated bastion with a caviler on top on a bottom, and a caponier like butt defense position behind it, but I suppose that's also actually a fair bit like how an ISD already looks.

2) Half of 1), split by vertical plane - the flat side has repulsor array facing the planet. This would be more of a static gun battery, kept largely in close orbit protection duties.
Any system of large forts should be supported by a system of small detached batteries, which have the added bonus of being much easier to tug around. Forts need reserves and flank guards just like a field force does, it's the static idea of a fort that is it's downfall, they've always required aggressive defense strategies.
For something like Kuat the ring itself would be armed, and collectively the batteries would outgun entire fleets. Which is perfectly reasonable for something approaching Death Star volume and can build entire fleets as a batch order. But systems like that could probably be counted with fingers. Most heavily fortified systems would just have a shield and an array of the forts, plus whatever passes for minefields in SW (I guess cheapo ion weapons with a capacitor attached, or missile tubes).
Low orbit rings are such silly ideas...no doubt you could build one in Star Wars though, and just interspace fortified points with industrial and port uses.

Even for a hugely well shielded planet, mobile forts, turret fields, etc. would be useful to prevent enemy fleets from exploiting interplanetary space as a safe zone, where surface gun batteries suffer from unacceptable lag but planets with predictable orbits can still be hit. The time taken to reduce one of these forts (basically killing a star dreadnought) would be enough time for a world with large amounts of orbital traffic to safely raise a full shield and for defenders closer in to mass to deal with an attacking fleet.
Yeah, your real proliferation is going to come when you need to defend interplanetary space from constant raids, which could none the less involve very large enemy ships. This would also become a really appealing place for torpedo boat like vessels or dynamite cruiser like concepts, and a FTL capable suicide craft tenders, except employing 100m or larger kamakazi ramships. Use hyperdrive to get anywhere in the system more or less instantly, then launch your ramships into battle to try to actually destroy a major enemy ship, not just fend it off. That would greatly improve the deterrent value of the defense system.

Naturally we need giant fortified pens to store these in so they aren't destroyed by starfighters...
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Re: Something big

Post by fractalsponge1 »

Gallery up:

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Re: Something big

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

FANTASTIC!
Seriously love it, took a look through the gallery and love some of the angles on the views.
Once again you do a great job of taking some thing that started as just a 2nd hand sketch in some book, and turning it into something that not just looks "Real" but FEELS real :D The thing has a no nonsense look to it that I love in utility ships :D

Curious what the 'Numbers' are for it?
Was hard counting the total number of defense turrets.
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Re: Something big

Post by fractalsponge1 »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:FANTASTIC!
Seriously love it, took a look through the gallery and love some of the angles on the views.
Once again you do a great job of taking some thing that started as just a 2nd hand sketch in some book, and turning it into something that not just looks "Real" but FEELS real :D The thing has a no nonsense look to it that I love in utility ships :D

Curious what the 'Numbers' are for it?
Was hard counting the total number of defense turrets.
Purely guessing, most common carriage would be 1 TIE wing (various types), 1 squadron starwing, 4 lambda-size shuttles, and small utility vessels. This plus large workshop space for small craft assembly and repair. As a ferry, 3+ wings of fighters and almost nothing else. Ships attached to fleet would have more support space and more (larger) hyper-capable fighters to allow for standoff tactics.

New WIP:
Modified assault transport for ground support. Heavy lasers and 4 light turbolaser mounts. Platoon-company carriage depending on length of mission. Guns heavy enough to take most plausible ground vehicles, enough troops to deploy to take small points, and shields and mobility to be safe from hand-held weapons and plausibly survive against air vehicles short of starfighters. Happy, Skimmer? :p

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Re: Something big

Post by Sea Skimmer »

I like the Imperial happy bus look, but the inability to shoot anything over such a wide arc above it seems bad. Rebel UAVs will have Star Wars like performance and all that.

This might be a perfect place to employ the silly zenith arc positions the YT1300 has. Are you aware of the French zenith only 37mm gun project from the RL? Basically a quadruple gun in a Limbo like mount that rolled side to side so it has unimpeded firing arcs dead above the ship and 60 degrees to all sides. This was a serious enough project that some French battleships got built with the handling rooms for the mount ammo. Odd stuff like that would make much more sense in space and aerial flying vehicle roles with artifical gravity, sci fi gets very focused on making naval enclosed barbette style turrets to the exclusion of all the other types of naval and fortress mount that exist/existed plus anti aircraft mounts all trying to address zenith defense right at the point SAMs appeared. But that does run into asthetic problems for the Empire I'm sure.
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Re: Something big

Post by fractalsponge1 »

That 37mm sounds like a weird mounting. Did the French have a death wish with development hell light AA? This sounds like right after the ACAD that took almost a decade to not enter service.

I might adjust the gun arcs then. I think single underside heavy guns per side is a minimum to cover for heavy vehicles. I'd put a single twin long-barrel LTL ventrally but there are some aesthetic concerns, plus it then makes the whole ship too tall to slip into the Chi-class cargo bay. I might replace either the fin or the sensor dome with the Juggernaut's gatling laser - that has 90-degree elevation and can engage targets that can outmaneuver the base platform better than a single heavy gun.

Either that or re-arrange to have the single LTL on the flank... lemme tweak a bit.
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Re: Something big

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Re: Something big

Post by Sea Skimmer »

I like the new arrangement a lot more, and the more all around focus in general seems more suited to a craft that just flies around doing what it wants to rebel sympathizer zones. Very bug like in general.
fractalsponge1 wrote:That 37mm sounds like a weird mounting. Did the French have a death wish with development hell light AA? This sounds like right after the ACAD that took almost a decade to not enter service.
It's a different mounting for the same gun as ACAD. Richelieu apparently had four handling rooms for it waiting had metal been cut on the guns, it was recessed into the deck and loaded from below. For bonus they were not symmetrically located, because so much other equipment was competing for room, and it wasn't really important if it was. Up is up.
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Re: Something big

Post by fractalsponge1 »

Sea Skimmer wrote:It's a different mounting for the same gun as ACAD. Richelieu apparently had four handling rooms for it waiting had metal been cut on the guns, it was recessed into the deck and loaded from below. For bonus they were not symmetrically located, because so much other equipment was competing for room, and it wasn't really important if it was. Up is up.
Huh, leafing through Jordan's books it says the ACAD development problem was with the gun itself - too much propellant with low barrel life. I guess they fixed it postwar and then dumped it for the 57mm?
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Re: Something big

Post by Sea Skimmer »

The zenith mount was just going to use water cooling to solve the barrel life issue, in all reality the real problem was the ROF of the French gun was just too high to be sustained for any length of time without that. The French had problems producing nearly everything, I don't recall what it was I read on the normal mount.

Basically all WW2 anti aircraft gun and mount design was rendered obsolete by 400+mph aircraft appearing, the traverse and elevation rates were too low and effective range and ROF too low, and that's how you get the 6pdr/55mm/57mm projects in Europe, and Skysweeper/3in in the US. Naval work for smaller calibers in a CIWS like role in the RN and USN existed but they all ended up absurdly complicated, huge, and got cancelled. One final ultimate British design had ten 70mm barrels firing low velocity rounds with large HE bursters to better obliterate an incoming threat. So like the 2pdr octuple mount in concept, but on crystal meth and firing Minengeschoss style ammunition. The US had all kinds of super velocity 37mm stuff falling out of its butt in the 1950s but none of it went anywhere, in no small part because that ROF issue really just ends up limiting you to about 100 rounds of sustained fire unless you have hefty water cooling. And the weight of water cooling makes a high sped mount even harder to engineer. This is why missiles got so appealing so fast.
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Re: Something big

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Sea Skimmer wrote:One final ultimate British design had ten 70mm barrels firing low velocity rounds with large HE bursters to better obliterate an incoming threat. So like the 2pdr octuple mount in concept, but on crystal meth and firing Minengeschoss style ammunition.
Christ, crazy but that does sound like an awesome concept by cool factor. The Brits seemed to have a way with this - like that Buster triaxial mounting with onboard director and diesel generator - sounds scifi in concept at the time but enormously heavy.

Star Battleship concept, based on Anon4, 8km:
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Re: Something big

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Ansel, Your adorable :3

Whenever you seem to get too much going, you go off and make a new Star Battleship.
It's like its some calming therapy for you :D
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Re: Something big

Post by Raesene »

Did you put some planetary defense ion canons in those globes on that ship ?

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Re: Something big

Post by darthscott »

The more battleships and dreadnoughts the merrier, can't wait to see the final product. Nice to finally visualize what protects those grand and important locations in the Galaxy.
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Re: Something big

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Crossroads Inc. wrote:It's like its some calming therapy for you :D
Yes!
Raesene wrote:Did you put some planetary defense ion canons in those globes on that ship ?
They're supposed to be enormous sensor globes. I look forward to having to explain this often...
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Re: Something big

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fractalsponge1 wrote: They're supposed to be enormous sensor globes. I look forward to having to explain this often...
Clearly, they're enormous shield generators. Probably for protecting allied ships or strategic use. ;)
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Re: Something big

Post by Raesene »

Crazedwraith wrote:
fractalsponge1 wrote: They're supposed to be enormous sensor globes. I look forward to having to explain this often...
Clearly, they're enormous shield generators. Probably for protecting allied ships or strategic use. ;)
A shield projector whose shield engulfes a neighboring vessel might work on a defense platform.
Maybe not impractical to protect a friedly ship whose shields are weakening for some time, to let them regenerate their own.

"In view of the circumstances, Britannia waives the rules."

"All you have to do is to look at Northern Ireland, [...] to see how seriously the religious folks take "thou shall not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable." George Carlin

"We need to make gay people live in fear again! What ever happened to the traditional family values of persecution and lies?" - Darth Wong
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Re: Something big

Post by Abacus »

Except that every blueprint released by Star Wars resource books has always had those "globes" on the bridge noted as "deflector shield generators". I'm still wondering why that is such a contentious issue to some. The sensors are usually the dishes, such as we see on the Millennium Falcon and the Tantive IV.
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Re: Something big

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Abacus wrote:Except that every blueprint released by Star Wars resource books has always had those "globes" on the bridge noted as "deflector shield generators". I'm still wondering why that is such a contentious issue to some. The sensors are usually the dishes, such as we see on the Millennium Falcon and the Tantive IV.
Do not start this here again.
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Re: Something big

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fractalsponge1 wrote:If the objects are shield generators why...
a) are they only on top of the ship?
b) can you shoot them to drop the shield? Don’t you have to drop the shield to shoot the thing projecting the shield?
c) are there not more of them for larger ships? Executor has 6, for a ship that is 200+ times bigger than an ISD with 2

I'll leave it at that. Start a thread in PSW if you want to have YET ANOTHER ARGUMENT ABOUT THIS. Jesus Christ.
I'm going to leave this here again. THIS WAS ONLY FROM DECEMBER PEOPLE.
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Re: Something big

Post by Crazedwraith »

Sorry, Fractal. I was joking about the big domes, though. :(
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Re: Something big

Post by Venator »

Raesene wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:
fractalsponge1 wrote: They're supposed to be enormous sensor globes. I look forward to having to explain this often...
Clearly, they're enormous shield generators. Probably for protecting allied ships or strategic use. ;)
A shield projector whose shield engulfes a neighboring vessel might work on a defense platform.
Maybe not impractical to protect a friedly ship whose shields are weakening for some time, to let them regenerate their own.
You would only really need two things for it to work; fleet tactics and organization to make it effective (a SSD rotating out her escorts to keep their shield topped up would be both a boon for combat endurance, and morale among the ISD crew), and long enough projection range for it not to be a liability if one escort is disabled (ref: Executor and the Death Star, the two ISDs in Rogue One).
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Re: Something big

Post by fractalsponge1 »

Commission piece:

Inexpugnable-class Command Ship, KOTOR era.

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Re: Something big

Post by Crazedwraith »

Which faction? I want to say Mandalorian looking at it for some reason.
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Re: Something big

Post by Galvatron »

Hey Ansel, out of curiosity, what line of work are you in? Is 3D modeling a skill that you acquired for your occupation?
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