Something big

[fractalsponge1]

My latest little project, started last friday.

I was thinking, since I have this big stash of greeble ready to go, how long would it take to put together some other random dagger-shaped vessel. So, I started fidgeting with what I had to hand. I finished this up yesterday afternoon, total about 4 days, part time. Very straightforward to do, except I had to re-work the turret setup down to a triple, and redo the bridge and sensor fit. Almost nothing on this ship (probably only three pieces) uses a straight-up scale from the detail on the battlecruiser; where something doesn't fit, I've re-done it to keep the relative scales the same. So the sensor domes and linear array are new, as is the bridge module arrangement. I'll do some comparison shots later.

The whole new ship is ~325k polygons.







I loosely based the description on eleventh century remnant's interpretation of anonymous star destroyer #2, perhaps a more modern refit/redesign using that as a base though. A very no-frills kind of light star destroyer for fleet flanking and screening duties. Exculcator or Procursator might be a fitting class name. About 1.2km and sleeker in proportion than ISD, same main engines as an ISD but no secondaries, 9 170-teraton main guns the same caliber as those on an ISDI. 24 capital missile tubes to back that up. Rest of armament I'm thinking is 40 MTL in 10 quads, 24 positions for larger-caliber LTL or ion cannon mountings, 144 mounting positions for dual-purpose LTL/light ion cannon/point defense guns. Small logistics bay with an armored hatch, as you can see. No serious fighter/troop carriage, maybe two battalions navy troops or stormtroopers for shipboard security, shuttles and some small transports.

Very nimble, if not necessarily superfast in a straight line acceleration race; I figure this is probably what you need as a fleet screening unit: acceptable speed but very agile - you're not going to need to run too far from what you're screening, but you better damn well be able to dodge. Maybe ~3300g, if the ISD can do 3500g? Solid for a destroyer-type, not exceptional. By main reactor scaling, without considering secondaries, about 3.7e24W max power, if an ISD is ~1e25 (i.e., about the power of a venator). Over-armed for its size, can only feed about 60% of the main armament's needs at 1 shot/s/barrel. Lots of step-down fire (the reactor , with capacitor-fed bursts with torpedo barrage against larger ships. If the HTL were used at a setting that allowed continuous 1 shot/s/barrel fire, they'd rate out at ~100TT each. Again, fits the concept well I think; hit hard and run, and be able to take what can actually catch you.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I....dislike the Pellaeon class star destroyer.

The communication ship could well be a light-cruiser scale warship; not quite sure I want to invest the energy into a new design for that yet. Perhaps a simple no-frills line destroyer first, just to see how quickly I can assemble one. If that's a reasonable process, perhaps an Allegiance class should be next; always wanted to do a heavy destroyer.

I've also scaled roughly the reactor volume of this thing. It (main+secondary) is actually ~34x the volume of an ISD's reactor. So, perhaps the power estimate needs to be adjusted closer to 3.3e26 W.

The total throw weight of all turbolaser weapons is about 56 petatons. This will have to be added to the heavy ion cannon power requirement, which I have absolutely no idea about calculating. But, if we assume that they use about the same amount of power as a...200 teraton HTL (perhaps a decent guess based on mount and barrel size - really have no idea how to estimate ion cannon power), then the total energy requirement of the weapons is >67petatons/sec (1 volley). Rates the power out to >2.8e26. The remaining 5e25W is either propulsion reserve (which considering this thing needs to be able to dodge fire is not unreasonable) or can be used to increase the rate of fire from the main guns.

ROTS ICS claims "true warships" can direct all their reactor output to guns (and this is not considering "capacitor-charged" weapons like the Death Star superlaser and the siege guns on the Techno Union frigate, whose firepower exceeds the output of the power sources).

[fractalsponge1]

The remaining 5e25W is either propulsion reserve (which considering this thing needs to be able to dodge fire is not unreasonable) or can be used to increase the rate of fire from the main guns.

Emphasis added. Maximum power to weapons is still limited in what it can do by the emitter (the turbolaser).

EDIT: I suppose I can revisit the calibers of the main battery, will have to do some new calcs based on the new reactor volume.


*Some new numbers*

Power, by reactor volume, ~ 3.3e26W. That's about 79,000 teratons per second.

Armament:
26 (13x2) 480-teraton superheavy turbolasers
192 (48x4) 170-teraton heavy turbolasers
320 (40x8) 40-teraton heavy turbolasers
56 (14x4) heavy ion cannons
108 anti-ship heavy missile tubes
57920 teratons + heavy ion cannon + missiles

Energy-weapon alpha:
26x480-teraton HTL, 176x170-teraton HTL, 320x40-teraton HTL, 48 heavy ion cannon, total = 55,200 teratons+heavy ion fire. (if ion cannon ~ 200 teratons, then total = 64,800 teratons/volley)

Optimum arc (dorsal forward):
18x480-teraton HTL, 136x170-teraton HTL, 192x40-teraton HTL, 48 heavy ion cannon, total = 39,440 teratons+heavy ion fire. (with ions, ~49,040 teratons/volley)

As for the lighter weapons, based on a rough estimate:
736 (184x4) 200-gigaton medium turbolasers/medium ion cannon
6272 (1568x4) 6-100-megaton light turbolasers/light ion cannon/point defense guns

The tricky bit is how to calculate the power for the heavy ion cannons, which I have no idea about. But if you assume a ~200 teraton/shot rating, then the quad turrets would take up 11,200 teratons worth in total, bringing total primary weapon power output to 69,120 teratons/volley, ~2.9e26J. So, power reserve (if every gun is firing once/sec) is ~5e25W (~12000 teratons/sec). But really, every weapon on the ship isn't necessarily going to be firing all the time a whole lot, so assuming that the optimum fire arc is used, then this ship should be able to throw out one dorsal arc alpha every 0.62 seconds, or throw a 49-petaton volley every second and still have over one third power left in reserve for engines at the same time (~1200g).

EDIT

Alternatively, keep the 480s, and increase the medium battery to a 210-teraton caliber (equal uprating from ISDI as the 40s are from the 32s on an ISDII), and call the armament equal to the reactor output. Ex post facto, but very neat:

Armament:
26 (13x2) 480-teraton superheavy turbolasers
192 (48x4) 210-teraton heavy turbolasers
320 (40x8) 40-teraton heavy turbolasers
56 (14x4) heavy ion cannons
108 anti-ship heavy missile tubes
65600 teratons + heavy ion cannon + missiles

Energy-weapon alpha:
26x480-teraton HTL, 176x210-teraton HTL, 320x40-teraton HTL, 48 heavy ion cannon, total = 62,240 teratons+heavy ion fire. (if ion cannon ~ 200 teratons, then total = 73,440 teratons/volley)

Optimum arc (dorsal forward):
18x480-teraton HTL, 136x210-teraton HTL, 192x40-teraton HTL, 48 heavy ion cannon, total = 44880 teratons+heavy ion fire. (with ions, ~54,480 teratons/volley)

As for the lighter weapons, based on a rough estimate:
736 (184x4) 200-gigaton medium turbolasers/medium ion cannon
6272 (1568x4) 6-100-megaton light turbolasers/light ion cannon/point defense guns

[fusion]

The new craft, however, seems much smaller than the ISD...
It could be the low amounts of detail...

Again, this reminds me the reason why we stopped debating ST v. SW...

A single volley from ship's point defense alone is more powerful than every bomb ever built in the real world combined!!!!

By the way can you see the point defense on the model of the big ship? Are they the tiny bumps on the hull?

[fractalsponge1]

Some scale shots with the whole squadron as it stands. I might have to lie low for a week or so - got a dissertation to write.

[fractalsponge1]

Engine flares!

[Illuminatus Primus]

I would love it if you did one of the Marvel battlecruisers "reinterpreted" more in line with the film aesthetic, kind of how you interpreted Dark Empire's hunchback into the Bellator. Giel's battleship would be cool too.

[fractalsponge1]

I'm planning on doing a few more ships in between ISD and SSD size. Not quite sure which though. I always thought the horn-prowed fleet carrier was cool.

This project sort of spiraled out a little from the initial idea, which was a stretched heavy cruiser. But with how the reactor scaled and the weaponry, it's probably almost a fast-battleship now. I figure Giel's ship is around 7-8km, but very massive (fat dagger shape). Given a difference in acceleration though, might actually be a pretty fair match. But there isn't really very much to model on it but panels (very little cortex), though fleshing out armament would be fun. Could do some inset details and small terraces like the Bellator perhaps.

But probably I'll take a little break from very large ships; might do a smaller ship next instead - can't populate a an entire fleet with battlewagons. Perhaps an Allegiance, only at a slightly higher detail level than the Procursator or Bellator. Either that, or a starfighter - assault gunboat/missile boat?

[Darth Raptor]

I'd really like to see some kind of fuel tanker or maintenance/supply tender, but I might be alone on that, and you might not even be interested. An Allegiance (we call them Autokrators) would be my second pick.

[fractalsponge1]

I am interested actually. I think the less glamorous ships in any navy are often very interesting, because they tell you something about how the force is run, and often there are specific design tradeoffs that are instructive as well, as opposed to brute size and strength or speed.

Question is more what size? I can see auxiliaries ranging from modular star hauler/star galleon to mobile depot stations bigger than Arc Hammer. A harder challenge to model, but might give it a shot in the future.

[RedImperator]

Does Star Wars even have tenders and the like? With the speed of hyperdrive, ships can return to their home bases in a matter of hours. I pictured the Imperial Navy acting more like an air force in that respect; the ships fly home for repair and resupply instead of having them done on-site. The only exception would be in the case of a breakdown, and even for that, I figure all you'd need is a tow truck.

[Lord Revan]

with tenders and such you could keep pretty much constant presence in a system, thus reducing the chance of a rebel attack or a pirate raid (or the rebels escaping your grasp, it's a big galaxy after all and there's only so many ship in the imperial fleet).

and there's missions in the X-wing series games where you need to intercept or protect supplies being delivered to the fleets (both imperial and rebel).

[Darth Raptor]

Does Star Wars even have tenders and the like?

Yes, they just don't get much exposure.

With the speed of hyperdrive, ships can return to their home bases in a matter of hours. I pictured the Imperial Navy acting more like an air force in that respect; the ships fly home for repair and resupply instead of having them done on-site. The only exception would be in the case of a breakdown, and even for that, I figure all you'd need is a tow truck.

It's important to remember both the size of the galaxy and the output of these reactors. At full power (i.e., combat conditions), we're talking a matter of hours or even minutes before a warship burns through its fuel. And just one of those galaxy-crossing hyperjumps is said to consume more power than a planetary civilization will use over the course of its history. It would be like if modern combat aircraft sprayed their fuel as a weapon- that would dramatically alter their flight plans, and even a modern air force employs tankers. Stationary star bases and massive fleet depots also exist, but SW does employ a mobile logistics train.

[fractalsponge1]

It's important to remember both the size of the galaxy and the output of these reactors. At full power (i.e., combat conditions), we're talking a matter of hours or even minutes before a warship burns through its fuel. And just one of those galaxy-crossing hyperjumps is said to consume more power than a planetary civilization will use over the course of its history.

Indeed. Actually, a fleet tanker is one of the conspicuously missing ships in the depicted set of SW vessels. Ships may carry years of hotel load and spares and stores for a long period, but there's got to be a standard transport for hypermatter. Perhaps a worthy subject for sketching out in 3d.

[Darth Tanner]

Yes, they just don't get much exposure.

The black fleet crisis trilogy is the only time I've heard of them.
They also appear in the Warlord mod for Homeworld, I don't know where they sourced the images for the ship they created but it was basically just a flying lumpy tube with a glowing arse.

[Raesene]

Yes, they just don't get much exposure.

The black fleet crisis trilogy is the only time I've heard of them.
They also appear in the Warlord mod for Homeworld, I don't know where they sourced the images for the ship they created but it was basically just a flying lumpy tube with a glowing arse.

In Allston's 'Wraith Squadron' book, the Corellian Corvette captured meets an imperial tender to acquire some stores etc.

Great pictures as usual, Fractalsponge

[Ekiqa]

I'd imagine that a fleet tanker would be a bloody huge ship.

Otherwise you'd need dozens to keep something like the Death Squadron going.

[Vehrec]

Four letters: F.S.C.V. With 100 billion cubic meters of bulk storage, and maybe some specialist modules for things like hypermatter, its the last word in Space Trains.

And the engine glow looks real nice.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I'm planning on doing a few more ships in between ISD and SSD size. Not quite sure which though. I always thought the horn-prowed fleet carrier was cool.

This project sort of spiraled out a little from the initial idea, which was a stretched heavy cruiser. But with how the reactor scaled and the weaponry, it's probably almost a fast-battleship now. I figure Giel's ship is around 7-8km, but very massive (fat dagger shape). Given a difference in acceleration though, might actually be a pretty fair match. But there isn't really very much to model on it but panels (very little cortex), though fleshing out armament would be fun. Could do some inset details and small terraces like the Bellator perhaps.

But probably I'll take a little break from very large ships; might do a smaller ship next instead - can't populate a an entire fleet with battlewagons. Perhaps an Allegiance, only at a slightly higher detail level than the Procursator or Bellator. Either that, or a starfighter - assault gunboat/missile boat?

I must have started to become a pain in the ass, but also, an interpretation of the Sovereign and/or Mandator II would be nice. My request hierarchy: Giel's battleship, Allegiance, Mandator II, fleet carrier, and Marvel battlecruiser.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Does Star Wars even have tenders and the like? With the speed of hyperdrive, ships can return to their home bases in a matter of hours. I pictured the Imperial Navy acting more like an air force in that respect; the ships fly home for repair and resupply instead of having them done on-site. The only exception would be in the case of a breakdown, and even for that, I figure all you'd need is a tow truck.

Cracken's Threat Dossier explicitly states as that as part of the New Class program, the New Republic Navy would receive a few new classes of tenders to supply the fleet on long range deployments.

Very nice models. Could you possibly do a Mon Cal cruiser? Like a Viscount?

[phongn]

Very nice models. Could you possibly do a Mon Cal cruiser? Like a Viscount?

Dude, that was asked before.

[Ford Prefect]

Personally, if another Star Destroyer was done, I would rather like to see a Mandator. There are, to my knowledge, no visuals of what it would look like ... nor is there much established in terms of size or armament. I'd like to see what you would do with such a 'free range', so to speak.

[Darth Raptor]

An unofficial but well done MSD here.

[fractalsponge1]

I didn't like that particular Mandator portrayal. Does not seem to be a credible starting point for the Executor; I imagine the design lineage should be obvious between the two - I can't imagine KDY would ignore its old similar-scale designs when making something that big. The off-dagger shape bugs me - KDY must have been working on its catalogue for a long time; but just because of this it doesn't mean they would've gone for a less than optimal shape in what is in what seems to be their flagship product - I think that CG version is meant to look "older," but it goes too far.

My version would be a bigger ship, 10-12km range, very close hull shape compared to the executor but fatter, a size which is closer to "1000 Recusants" on a simple volume scaling note, and more in keeping with the notion of s Star Dreadnaught - it's an self-evidently monstrous ship, and obviously not a new naval designation; a 4km ship is not that when Imperial heavy destroyers are hitting 2-3km. I'd probably scale the relative power to between half and two-thirds that of the executor, making the new SSD a real advance per ship, especially if it, as I envision is a good deal faster, but all in all not sufficient to make its predecessors obsolete.

I was discussing this idea with a fellow 3d artist a few weeks ago actually, and came up with a doodle to show where I was going with this:

http://fractalsponge.net/big/mand/mand1.jpg
http://fractalsponge.net/big/mand/mand2.jpg
http://fractalsponge.net/big/mand/mand3.jpg

Sorry for only links, stupid 640 pix width limit and I'm too tired to bother thumbnailing it right now.

And now, a new project I started after the idea of a fleet auxiliary to go with my bellator was brought up. My light star destroyer (Procursator) is in scale for the last one.

http://fractalsponge.net/tanker/3.jpg
http://fractalsponge.net/tanker/4.jpg
http://fractalsponge.net/tanker/5.jpg
http://fractalsponge.net/tanker/6.jpg

Rambling post, sorry, but it's late for me

[Ekiqa]

I like both.

How much fuel do you believe the tanker can carry?

And if it was more enclosed, though I like the look as it is, it could carry other consumables.