Something big

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CetaMan
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Re: Something big

Post by CetaMan » 2018-03-14 10:41pm

Yeah, Maelstrom. The interesting animal of a twin-tower 2.20-klick sleek battlecruiser design used by the republic as dedicated command/flagships.

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Re: Something big

Post by Esquire » 2018-03-15 12:56am

I've always wondered about battlecruisers as 'dedicated' flagships. A battlecruiser is, historically, a cruiser with a battleship's armament. Surely fleet command ought to ride around on basically the exact opposite (defencecruiser?) kind of hull, or else on a standard heavy warship, of which there is at least one more in the formation?
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Re: Something big

Post by Sea Skimmer » 2018-03-15 11:54am

In many situations you do not want the commander on a capital ship, because you want to commit all capital ships to close action at which point the commander becomes far more likely to be killed or simply absorbed into the battle with poor visibility and communications and unable to exercise command. In the age of sail putting an admiral on a frigate wasn't a practical choice but did happen from time to time, but in WW1 and particularly WW2 Admirals in command being on cruisers was commonplace for this set of reasons. It let them freely move around without absorbing a vital unit, but still had enough space to accommodate a staff and enough radio equipment. Operation Overlord for example was commanded off USS Augusta and HMS Scylla, heavy and light cruisers respectively, with the ground forces having an additional pair of transport based command ships. Even though no less then seven battleships were available for the operation and five took part on the first day.

In space warfare you could make arguments six different ways.
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Re: Something big

Post by CetaMan » 2018-03-15 07:33pm

Arguably yes, but in a more sensor-orientated setting perhaps its best to be on the ship with the most survivability, since sensors and jamming is going to determine what info is available rather then location.

Its Star Wars, sticking the commanding officer on the biggest ship seems to happen a lot. Though we do see instanced where they go on another ship, Like Thrawn using smaller vessels when ISD's were available, or some clone wars episodes where an Arquitens was the command ship and not a Venator.

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Re: Something big

Post by Crossroads Inc. » 2018-03-15 07:51pm

For me... One of the best examples of commanding spaceships was in LOTGH.
The "Command ships" in that series were often not the biggest or best, but ships that either "Just" had a commander on them, or ones fitted out as more a support role.

The 'Hyperion' was an old ship and considered out of date, but Yang Wenli like the ship and used it as a command ship for coordinating his fleets.
The 'Brunhild' was a new ship of the line, but a dedicated support ship. It had enhanced shields and advanced communications network, but was never meant as a "front line battleship"

The "trope" of a commandeering being on the "Biggest and Best" ship is something that comes from many sci-fi shows and books that has its roots I think in part to the notion that the "Leader" should be getting the "Best" ship out there. Also, to a lesser extent is the notion of the "Hero" ship, the 'Yamatos, the Enterprises, the ships that fight with the strength of a hundred and can turn the tide of a battle or a war! Except... Things don't work that way of course, in real life, a great big ship, is a great big target.
The real Yamato had little to no effect on the war and was hunted from almost the moment it launched specifically because it was such a big ship.
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Re: Something big

Post by fractalsponge1 » 2018-03-15 08:07pm

As has been said, there are many ways to slice this for space combat - I'd argue a higher level commander would be best served far away and disengaged, but formation leaders should have their flags on front-line ships.

If we're going back to terrestrial setups, destroyer flotilla leaders used to be cruisers, because at first the flag needed endurance and handiness to scout for their (very small and barely seaworthy) private ships. Later when destroyers became much more capable the fleet destroyer commanders were also had cruiser flags, because that officer needed firepower to resolve some situations personally and form a rallying point for the other ships in his command.

In SW terms, I'd say someone like an oversector commander would be best served far away, maybe even on a planet and communicating via holonet to component commanders, but anyone actually commanding a fleet or squadron meant to engage as a unit might as well have a big front-line vessel to command from. Incredible jamming makes tactical control from a distance dicey at that point. If the squadron is unbalanced, like a star dreadnought and a handful of escorts, the commander will want to have direct control of the majority of the firepower anyway, rather than potentially being driven off on a small ship while his major unit(s) is left to its own devices.

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Re: Something big

Post by Weedle McHairybug » 2018-05-05 03:00pm

Just so everyone's aware, fractalsponge1 is working on a new ship (not a Imperial ship, just a new ship). According to him, it's "A commission piece with the concept that it’s a transport that can sort of double as an East Indiaman type armed ship."

http://fractalsponge.net/?p=3391

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Re: Something big

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2018-05-05 03:03pm

That looks like a cross between that Republic consular ship in TPM, a container ship and a Gerry Anderson series, I love it!
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Re: Something big

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-05 06:47pm

Similar in function to the Imperial Navy Star Galleons from the Legends Canon.

I'd have to disagree slightly with E_F , and say she looks more like an Imp strike cruiser (Also from Legends canon), though I can see the Space:1999 as well, with lines similar to both the Betan gunship(or was it Alphan? The one with the all-female crew at any rate)and the Dorcon ship from the series finale.
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Re: Something big

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2018-05-05 07:18pm

Betan gunship is what you're thinking of, and that's what I had in mind, along with, well, just about any other big ship seen in the first season. Has that kinder look.
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Re: Something big

Post by Rhadamantus » 2018-05-05 09:27pm

It looks decently fast, with 4 engines modules. Dump the cargo and I think this thing could break 3000g. It has decently heavy armament and good sensors. I could see naval officers in the Outer Rim replacing the cargo fittings with a hangar and using them as corvettes.
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Re: Something big

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-05 11:37pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
2018-05-05 07:18pm
Betan gunship is what you're thinking of, and that's what I had in mind, along with, well, just about any other big ship seen in the first season. Has that kinder look.
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I see what you mean. Though it doesn't resemble the larger Earth ship from "Dragon's Den," it does bear some similarities to a couple of the machines floating in the graveyard/alien bait station from that same episode.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
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Re: Something big

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-05-07 12:32am

Light hanger for tugs n shuttles
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Re: Something big

Post by Patroklos » 2018-05-07 03:27am

Rhadamantus wrote:
2018-05-05 09:27pm
It looks decently fast, with 4 engines modules. Dump the cargo and I think this thing could break 3000g. It has decently heavy armament and good sensors. I could see naval officers in the Outer Rim replacing the cargo fittings with a hangar and using them as corvettes.
How are you even pretending you can make a perdition on acceleration when you know absolutely nothing about the mass or performance of these engines? Do we even have a reference to other ships to extrapolate from?

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Re: Something big

Post by Rhadamantus » 2018-05-07 08:00am

Patroklos wrote:
2018-05-07 03:27am
Rhadamantus wrote:
2018-05-05 09:27pm
It looks decently fast, with 4 engines modules. Dump the cargo and I think this thing could break 3000g. It has decently heavy armament and good sensors. I could see naval officers in the Outer Rim replacing the cargo fittings with a hangar and using them as corvettes.
How are you even pretending you can make a perdition on acceleration when you know absolutely nothing about the mass or performance of these engines? Do we even have a reference to other ships to extrapolate from?
Fractal has stats for his other ships, and I was comparing this to other ships of the same size.
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Re: Something big

Post by NecronLord » 2018-05-07 04:03pm

Despite the look it's apparently not a Star Wars ship. It could generate a megawatt and acellerate at 0.01 Gs (and still be awesome).
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Re: Something big

Post by fractalsponge1 » 2018-05-07 04:09pm

It is supposed to be a SW ship (per the commission). But I have no particular name for it apart that it was supposed to be inspired in overall look by a...YZ2500. But that is one of a long line of EU Falcon wannabes that are supposedly freighters but actually just technicals. I upped the size to frigate scale and came up with the container bay so it could actually carry meaningful 10 million ton cargoes and armed it appropriately as a credible potential AMC.

Acceleration is tricky as hell, since I think there's no indication how much of a reactor's output is required to sustain maximum acceleration. This means that mass is also pretty impossible to estimate (at least say, within an order of magnitude). Best I can come up with is by role and reputation, and vaguely get the engine size "looking right" for the estimated number. For this one I'm guessing that it's not great, but this varies a lot depending on how much mass it's hauling. Totally "clean" and I can see it touching the high 2000g range. But again, guesstimating.

Gallery is up: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/bLzPn

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Re: Something big

Post by Abacus » 2018-05-11 10:29am

I like the look of that hauler.
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Re: Something big

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-11 11:18am

Haul Guns, Will Travel.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
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Re: Something big

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-05-11 12:01pm

Looks great
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Re: Something big

Post by fractalsponge1 » 2018-05-14 10:35am

Image

Almost done. Added the 6 new ventral turrets (triples) from Rogue One. Standard blend of ANH and TESB details, but other addition is modifying the forward hangar to actually launch a Lambda, and adding the ceiling launch bays from the TIE Fighter launch cinematic :D

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Re: Something big

Post by Weedle McHairybug » 2018-05-14 12:53pm

fractalsponge1 wrote:
2018-05-14 10:35am
Image

Almost done. Added the 6 new ventral turrets (triples) from Rogue One. Standard blend of ANH and TESB details, but other addition is modifying the forward hangar to actually launch a Lambda, and adding the ceiling launch bays from the TIE Fighter launch cinematic :D
So, question, are you going to still post this on fractalsponge.net, or is that site effectively retired?

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Re: Something big

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-05-14 01:09pm

No he still does
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Re: Something big

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-05-14 01:12pm

Artstation sometimes getting upload faster
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Re: Something big

Post by fractalsponge1 » 2018-05-14 01:14pm

I do both but they are sometimes out of sync. My site has more WIPs and tech commentary and such, and artstation is for a (I think) broader audience.

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