Something big

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Weedle McHairybug
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Re: Something big

Postby Weedle McHairybug » 2017-01-02 07:13am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Has fractal/ansel fractalnsel designed Rebel/non-Imperial SW warships?


He has. He made the Kandosii-class Mandalorian Dreadnought, the Besadan Mandalorian Starfighter, the Endurance-class fleet carrier and Nebula-class destroyer's redesigns in The Essential Guide to Warfare, the Sith Dreadnought, the TIE Predator (technically Imperial, but belonging to Krayt's Empire/Fel's Empire), the Preying Mantis patrol ship, and I think the X70 and Coronet. Other than those, he also was working on a render for the MC90, some ship that's referred to as "dart" in the file name (has two engines and a narrow body). Oh, and also an orbital ship and a tug, though it's unclear whether those were not Imperial or Imperial.

Heck, he's even worked on at least one non-Star Wars ship, being responsible for the USMC Infinity from Halo.

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Re: Something big

Postby MKSheppard » 2017-01-02 12:52pm

re: re: re: Dreadnoughts (designations for)

In the old Brian Daley Novels (Don't know if they're still canon) there's reference to an old ship:

Even Rekkon hadn’t realized how security-minded the Authority was about Orron III. Moving up hard astern the barge was a dreadnaught, one of the military’s old Invincible Class capital ships—over two kilometers long, bristling with gun turrets, missile tubes, tractor-beam projectors, and deflector shields, armored like a protosteel mountain. The dreadnought hailed them with the demand that the barge halt, and at the same time identified herself: the Shannador’s Revenge.


In WEG's Corp Sector Auth Sourcebook (again....yeah yeah), it's described as:

Invincible-class Dreadnaught heavy cruiser.

They're described as being designed 3,000 years ago; being one of the biggest ships in the Old Republic Fleet at the time -- the Sublight drives alone took up about 1/3 of the entire interior volume (Corp Sector never refitted newer engines into them).

It also describes the shifts between big ships and small ships in tactical doctrines and how the pendulum swings back and forth over the eras.

Some of this is now very obsolete with what we know of the Prequels which show that the Old Republic had virtually no military to speak of and the new Canon Novels (Tarkin) which introduced the concept of Republic Judicials, the Old Republic's Quasi-Military force that apparently was in between: Do Nothing and Send the Jedi. (Tarkin was a Judicial for a brief period of time, FYI.).

Regarding the designation WEG gave it; I think it's actually two parts; the first is the original class rating from 3,000 years BBY, and the second is the Corporate Sector Re-Rating 3,000 years later; similar to how in the Age of Sail, ships got razee'd (cut down) from multi deck ships of the line to two or single deck frigates.
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Re: Something big

Postby Lord Revan » 2017-01-02 01:21pm

Actually the Judicials predate the new canon. IIRC the pilots who brought Qui-gonn Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi to Naboo were suppose to members of the Galatic Republic Judicial corp
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Re: Something big

Postby Abacus » 2017-01-02 02:12pm

Lord Revan wrote:Actually the Judicials predate the new canon. IIRC the pilots who brought Qui-gonn Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi to Naboo were suppose to members of the Galatic Republic Judicial corp


Indeed they do. I'm a bit thankful that they're back in canon.
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Re: Something big

Postby Rogue 9 » 2017-01-08 03:51pm

Hey Ansel, I don't know if you license out your work, but if you don't, you might want to have a word with these guys.
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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-01-08 06:32pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Hey Ansel, I don't know if you license out your work, but if you don't, you might want to have a word with these guys.


No license, but not much I can do about it - LFL/Disney own the copyright.

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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-01-08 10:16pm

Contentor-class Fleet Replenishment Ship Gallery:

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Elheru Aran
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Re: Something big

Postby Elheru Aran » 2017-01-09 01:10pm

fractalsponge1 wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Hey Ansel, I don't know if you license out your work, but if you don't, you might want to have a word with these guys.


No license, but not much I can do about it - LFL/Disney own the copyright.


I suppose the only thing that can be done about it is referring it to whatever public relations contact information LFL has put out there.
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Re: Something big

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-09 07:04pm

That is strange, that canvas wall thing has now appeared in my Facebook too as an ad...
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Re: Something big

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2017-01-09 07:46pm

Mine as well. Twice is only happenstance though, if someone else see's it, we know it's enemy action and we'll have to retaliate...somehow.

Also, I've said it before but damn if that crane arm on that ship's topside doesn't look like a fuckoff huge gun mount.
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Re: Something big

Postby Rogue 9 » 2017-01-09 11:56pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:That is strange, that canvas wall thing has now appeared in my Facebook too as an ad...

How do you think I found out about it in the first place? They also advertise other Star Wars designs like the water-skimming X-wings from The Force Awakens, but I saw that one and immediately recognized it as Fractal's.
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Re: Something big

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2017-01-10 08:54am

That's three people, it must be enemy action. To arms!
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: Something big

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-10 09:46am

OK I've seen it use other all sorts of images from internet memes, including those patriotic MURCA FUCK YEAH president/historical figure on tanks in preposterous battle scenes. It is most likely total plagiarism. [/offtopic]
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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-01-11 10:07am

Yeah, definitely pirated, but not sure there's anything I can do about it. One of those things that just sucks about posting art publicly these days.


ESC update: Ventral hatch to handle all the Sienar/Cygnus lambda-shuttle variants. Frees the forward hatches for fighter launch and recovery

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Re: Something big

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-11 08:41pm

fractalsponge1 wrote:Yeah, definitely pirated, but not sure there's anything I can do about it. One of those things that just sucks about posting art publicly these days.


In your case, since it's SW stuff, yeah. But there are others whose original arts are being pirated. I wonder what can be done...

To not be a total out-of-topic post...

ESC update: Ventral hatch to handle all the Sienar/Cygnus lambda-shuttle variants. Frees the forward hatches for fighter launch and recovery

http://fractalsponge.net/wp/wp-content/ ... /esc25.jpg


I wonder... do other docking bays have physical doors too? I vaguely remember something like that in ROTS. Did we ever see the ISDs "close" their hatches?
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shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-01-11 09:30pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I wonder... do other docking bays have physical doors too? I vaguely remember something like that in ROTS. Did we ever see the ISDs "close" their hatches?


The actual launch/retrieval bays opening onto the ISD's docking bay have doors, if the model is to be trusted at all. Plus obviously all the Venator and Invisible Hand apertures with doors.

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Shroom Man 777
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Re: Something big

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-11 09:34pm

I really liked the dorsal bays of the Venator. Great carrier aesthetic. And the "RO-RO" ramps for the land forces. I wonder if it is a bit too multi-role...
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shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-01-11 10:36pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I really liked the dorsal bays of the Venator. Great carrier aesthetic. And the "RO-RO" ramps for the land forces. I wonder if it is a bit too multi-role...


I think its one problem is that it doesn't have any major axis that has good fire arcs but is armored from fire into the hangar when flight operations are ongoing, which is probably a lot of the time given it has an air wing in the hundreds. Apart from that, in sheer capability it's hard to beat the Venator, ton for ton - huge hangar, high acceleration, and really impressive energy density. Maybe it shaves strength and reliability to do it all?

ISDs rather naturally put their targets in the dorsal hemisphere, so it can do fighter launch even as it pounds out alpha strikes.

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Re: Something big

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-12 12:20am

I have to ask then, what does the dedicated anti-ship missions for 'em (for the other multi-role vessels, I mean)?

Unless in this era, fighter swarms were also valid for anti-ship purposes?

Or, weirdly enough, it's called the Clone Wars, with clones being the primary surface infantry combatant... because in some weird Star Warsian space opera inverse logic... starships became sideshows, multi-teraton-slugging background characters, because due to the nature of SW sociocultural cosmopolitics... the taking and holding of population centers, including and especially ones with leadership presences, were the main objective of all the battles?

So somehow, someway, hyperdrive-capable ships that jump into orbit are playing a supporting role for the huge amounts of troops they disgorge to do their separate thing on land, capturing things the old fashioned way because slagging cities from orbit is not kosher and defeats the purpose of these dominance displays...?

I mean, in ROTS, in AOTC, etc. the capships flounder in space and batter each other for scores of minutes, even hours, but they still seem to mostly escape undestroyed while the objects are all achieved in planetside. With sufficiently big damn heroics.

Oh god we're gonna digress into another meandering doctrine discussion.
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Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-01-12 07:47pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Oh god we're gonna digress into another meandering doctrine discussion.


Are you new here? :)

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I have to ask then, what does the dedicated anti-ship missions for 'em (for the other multi-role vessels, I mean)?

Unless in this era, fighter swarms were also valid for anti-ship purposes?

Or, weirdly enough, it's called the Clone Wars, with clones being the primary surface infantry combatant... because in some weird Star Warsian space opera inverse logic... starships became sideshows, multi-teraton-slugging background characters, because due to the nature of SW sociocultural cosmopolitics... the taking and holding of population centers, including and especially ones with leadership presences, were the main objective of all the battles?

So somehow, someway, hyperdrive-capable ships that jump into orbit are playing a supporting role for the huge amounts of troops they disgorge to do their separate thing on land, capturing things the old fashioned way because slagging cities from orbit is not kosher and defeats the purpose of these dominance displays...?

I mean, in ROTS, in AOTC, etc. the capships flounder in space and batter each other for scores of minutes, even hours, but they still seem to mostly escape undestroyed while the objects are all achieved in planetside. With sufficiently big damn heroics.


I think Clone Wars are a bit of an odd name. Unless they are metaphorically calling droids clones?

Starships are only sideshows because we are watching films, which require melees and dogfights so ships can be seen in the same frame. The only movie I remember where they tried to do long range salvo fire kind of battles was the recent Space Battleship Yamato remake. And that...sorta worked on screen.

More in-universe, I think with the kind of war that we saw having many many decapitation strike attempts makes sense. The droid armies will not stop or stop building themselves unless totally exterminated (expensive), or explicitly ordered to (much cheaper). You need live leadership with authorization to surrender for the latter.

The Separatists don't (well at least not yet in their von Neumann army progression) have the power to outright occupy the vastly larger Republic, so they go for strikes at key nodes and aim to destroy the will of the Republic to crush them. Slagging worlds will just harden resolve, but the equivalent of capturing hostages might be more effective. Making power players within the Republic abandon the war effort would definitely be worth it. Imagine if it got bad enough that Kuat said "we're taking a time out because you clearly can't protect the Core." Depends on just how unitary you think the Republic is. I bet not very. I bet the Empire wasn't either, to be honest.

The mobility of hyperdrive I think paradoxically increases the likelihood of conflict at fixed sites. Until interdictors are everywhere (and there may be limits to how well they can trap a fleet anyway) - there's no reason for anyone's fleet to stay long enough to be defeated. An enemy with an intact fleet and the fuel to use it is never defeated, so to draw out a fleet, strategic planets and planets with strategic people on them becomevery important as battlefields.

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Re: Something big

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-12 08:02pm

Yeah, the supertech ironically makes it (WAR) even more of an instrument of politics. As Old Snake said in Fallout, war has never changeseds.

Maybe the Rebellion's greater mobility and lighter footprint than the Seperatists, how it's more difficult to do the "giant conventional planetary warfare with political-objectives" vs. a guerrilla group flying all around the galaxy with their strike teams and X-Wing interstellar strike squads and all that puts greater emphasis on killing the Rebels in space, while they flee the Imperial ground forces, flee in such a way that's harder to follow and pursue than the Seperatists with their giant droid armies and forge worlds and Von Neuman-style factory-deployments...

Hence the Interdictors and hence the deep space patrols and the larger formations and such... I guess the Republic also had these, but the Republic was in "move and fight on/around worlds" whereas the Empire's in "TOTAL GALACTIC OCCUPATION AND PURSUIT" mode.

This makes me think of this thing I was mulling in my brain, namely... why are so many worlds in SW so... undensely-populated yet scattered across such distances? Like the typical podunk settlements we see in five planets probably have a combined populace of less than some modern huge city here on Earth. How does that work?

Bah that's for some other thread elsewhere...
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Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
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Re: Something big

Postby Weedle McHairybug » 2017-01-12 08:07pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Yeah, the supertech ironically makes it (WAR) even more of an instrument of politics. As Old Snake said in Fallout, war has never changeseds.

Maybe the Rebellion's greater mobility and lighter footprint than the Seperatists, how it's more difficult to do the "giant conventional planetary warfare with political-objectives" vs. a guerrilla group flying all around the galaxy with their strike teams and X-Wing interstellar strike squads and all that puts greater emphasis on killing the Rebels in space, while they flee the Imperial ground forces, flee in such a way that's harder to follow and pursue than the Seperatists with their giant droid armies and forge worlds and Von Neuman-style factory-deployments...

Hence the Interdictors and hence the deep space patrols and the larger formations and such... I guess the Republic also had these, but the Republic was in "move and fight on/around worlds" whereas the Empire's in "TOTAL GALACTIC OCCUPATION AND PURSUIT" mode.

This makes me think of this thing I was mulling in my brain, namely... why are so many worlds in SW so... undensely-populated yet scattered across such distances? Like the typical podunk settlements we see in five planets probably have a combined populace of less than some modern huge city here on Earth. How does that work?

Bah that's for some other thread elsewhere...



I think you mean either Metal Gear Solid 4 or another character in the Fallout series.

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Re: Something big

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-12 08:15pm

It's a basterdized combination of Snake's "war has changed" and Fallout with Ron Perlman going "war never changes."
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Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
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Re: Something big

Postby Weedle McHairybug » 2017-01-12 08:15pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:It's a basterdized combination of Snake's "war has changed" and Fallout with Ron Perlman going "war never changes."


Oh, okay. Sorry about that.

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Re: Something big

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2017-01-13 06:40pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:This makes me think of this thing I was mulling in my brain, namely... why are so many worlds in SW so... undensely-populated yet scattered across such distances? Like the typical podunk settlements we see in five planets probably have a combined populace of less than some modern huge city here on Earth. How does that work?


Why doesn't everyone in the Philippines live in Manila? :D Heck, why did humans ever leave Africa? It's kind of the genes to wander, explore and claim whatever we can as our own.

With thousands of years of interseller travel and so many people that city planets can exist the pressure for humans to scatter to live with less government and clutter would be enormous. Heck a planet like Coruscant would seriously alter human evolution in the long term, and it may well be that humanity in Star Wars is actually diverging into difference species driven by peoples ability to cope with such hyperdensity. And that's not even considering political factors, race relations ect... I think the question is far more how the hell did Coruscant ever come to exist (like who built the first oxygen plant when they needed it? Instead of just using zoning laws to cap the population?) then why people would live on backwater planets.

fractalsponge1 wrote:Yeah, definitely pirated, but not sure there's anything I can do about it. One of those things that just sucks about posting art publicly these days.


You might want to consider watermarking if your uploading in high resolution.
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