Pre-industrial Fantasy STGOD OOC/Rules Thread:

[Simon_Jester]

Eh. Personally, I trust him not to mess around with this- if someone invades him and one of their army columns gets wiped out by a thunder god, I'm sure he can compensate by having him blow up one of his own columns when they all get turned into hummingbirds for failing to appease the rain god with his daily giant tun-sized cup of hot spiced cocoa with ground-up human livers.

[Panzersharkcat]

Rough idea for their history. Adjust as needed for different eras. Will need more research for their economy, but it's likely limited amounts of agriculture, with fishing, whaling, lumber, and furs as their primary goods for both domestic consumption and trade, along with some precious metal mining.

The Bastians, so named by Europeans after the Egyptian cat goddess, originate from the Great Plains. They existed alongside the humans of the area, competing for food and resources, even hunting humans for food if the opportunity came. (To be fair to the Bastians, that typically happened as a result of humans engaging in cattle... er... bison-rustling. Stealing one of the primary food sources of obligate carnivores is not the best idea.) However, they were out-competed and fled north after a series of wars with their neighbors severely diminished their population. They were shunted into Alaska after coming into conflict or being refused asylum by every civilization they came across (the whole eating people thing did not exactly endear them to those groups), particularly the Hyenorks. By the time they arrived in Alaska, their population had dwindled to a mere 10000. In their desperation, they called out to the heavens for aid. A great frost dragon took pity on them and granted the gift of cryomancy to the leaders of the various tribes and physiological adaptations for the climate in general. The Bastians used their newly granted gifts to subdue the human societies around them and bring them into submission, establishing themselves as their overlords. Revolts by the majority human population shifted their status over hundreds of years from mere chattel to second-class citizens, with some rights and protections granted to them, including murder charges if a Bastian eats one of them. At the time of story, the population of the Bastian Dominion is approximately 250,000, with about 50,000 Bastians.

To add on and throw things in from the other thread:
Within their own territory, by way of a power-amplifying artifact that diminishes the farther away a cryomancer goes, Bastian cryomancers can call up massive hail storms, which makes fighting a set piece battle against them a foolish proposition (unless a certain empire for some reason sends their troops in from the other side of the continent to freeze their asses off and have all the hail miss them). It's not to say that large numbers of small raiding parties wouldn't be effective, however. To limit the number of raids that can come in by land, the Bastian Dominion sent their cryomancers to build a giant wall of ice along their western border. There are gates within that enable traders and the sort to come in. It remains a formidable barrier to attempt to scale. This is also a major reason the Bastians have never attempted to carve out a massive empire outside of Alaska.

Their military is fairly normal. Lots of spearmen, axemen, and archers, with small numbers of rifle companies. Total military size is approximately 15,000 troops, the majority of which are feudal levies led by a cryomancer aristocrat. The king has his own standing force of 3000, which contain all of the rifle companies in the Bastian military. Their navy is fairly primitive, though the king is sending out envoys and attempting to hire outside experts to learn from other societies on the continent and modernize his nation.

Anything I should clarify, like racial tensions or caste systems?

[Simon_Jester]

Well, what I'm really interested to know is, how do you intend to poke the outside world?

My nation has territorial ambitions that could potentially arouse the interest or reactions of multiple other states, and I have a 'plot' in mind involving its strategic goals and their consequences. Plus, of course, Ohio has established grounds to distrust multiple other polities, including some who have excellent reason to want to trade with them because Ohio controls (or is at least in position to block) North America's main internal trade routes between the East and the West.

If Ohio was a bunch of happy-go-lucky types with no territorial ambitions, plus good relations with all surrounding nations including the creepy necromancers and condescending atheists with ultracannon, then Ohio would be considerably less interesting to deal with, in my opinion. Instead, they're the people who will outlaw chocolate because Aztec gods.

[madd0ct0r]

Rough idea for their history. Adjust as needed for different eras. Will need more research for their economy, but it's likely limited amounts of agriculture, with fishing, whaling, lumber, and furs as their primary goods for both domestic consumption and trade, along with some precious metal mining.

The Bastians, so named by Europeans after the Egyptian cat goddess, originate from the Great Plains. They existed alongside the humans of the area, competing for food and resources, even hunting humans for food if the opportunity came. (To be fair to the Bastians, that typically happened as a result of humans engaging in cattle... er... bison-rustling. Stealing one of the primary food sources of obligate carnivores is not the best idea.) However, they were out-competed and fled north after a series of wars with their neighbors severely diminished their population. They were shunted into Alaska after coming into conflict or being refused asylum by every civilization they came across (the whole eating people thing did not exactly endear them to those groups), particularly the Hyenorks. By the time they arrived in Alaska, their population had dwindled to a mere 10000. In their desperation, they called out to the heavens for aid. A great frost dragon took pity on them and granted the gift of cryomancy to the leaders of the various tribes and physiological adaptations for the climate in general. The Bastians used their newly granted gifts to subdue the human societies around them and bring them into submission, establishing themselves as their overlords. Revolts by the majority human population shifted their status over hundreds of years from mere chattel to second-class citizens, with some rights and protections granted to them, including murder charges if a Bastian eats one of them. At the time of story, the population of the Bastian Dominion is approximately 250,000, with about 50,000 Bastians.

To add on and throw things in from the other thread:
Within their own territory, by way of a power-amplifying artifact that diminishes the farther away a cryomancer goes, Bastian cryomancers can call up massive hail storms, which makes fighting a set piece battle against them a foolish proposition (unless a certain empire for some reason sends their troops in from the other side of the continent to freeze their asses off and have all the hail miss them). It's not to say that large numbers of small raiding parties wouldn't be effective, however. To limit the number of raids that can come in by land, the Bastian Dominion sent their cryomancers to build a giant wall of ice along their western border. There are gates within that enable traders and the sort to come in. It remains a formidable barrier to attempt to scale. This is also a major reason the Bastians have never attempted to carve out a massive empire outside of Alaska.

Their military is fairly normal. Lots of spearmen, axemen, and archers, with small numbers of rifle companies. Total military size is approximately 15,000 troops, the majority of which are feudal levies led by a cryomancer aristocrat. The king has his own standing force of 3000, which contain all of the rifle companies in the Bastian military. Their navy is fairly primitive, though the king is sending out envoys and attempting to hire outside experts to learn from other societies on the continent and modernize his nation.

Anything I should clarify, like racial tensions or caste systems?

Hmm. Effective cryomancy would allow hyenorks to fight on through the summer. Interesting you've leashed your people as much as I have. The existence of northen humans to conquer suggests to me the hyenorks must be a young race that has not had time to spread much. What powers did they use before they went north?

Do bastians view 'their' humans as different to the other kingdoms? Do they value them enough for rescue missions? Are there trading towns on ther side of the wall?

[Panzersharkcat]

Answering both Simon_Jester and madd0ctor:
The Bastians had no real powers to speak of. They're faster, more agile, and have more acute senses than humans do, but are also physically weaker and a bit frailer. They also have retractable claws. That's it, really. I leashed my guys because I'm fairly busy. My current job often has me working six days a week. My plots are mostly along the lines of modernizing the Dominion. I was thinking about being a big customer of the slave trade to work the mines, as well as importing some as gladiators of sorts. Because of how destructive their powers can be, conflicts between rival nobles developed into ritualized one-on-one tournaments rather than full-blown wars. They would not be above trying to grab fighters from abroad to gain advantage in those tournaments. If a fighter does poorly in defeat, FINISH HIM. (Yeah, that part and the cryomancy was inspired by Mortal Kombat, with a touch of Roman gladiators. Outside the Dominion, cryomancers would basically have Sub-Zero's power set. It'd also depend a lot on how much moisture is around them. Death Valley is stay-the-fuck-away territory for them. The oppressive heat plus thick fur doesn't help.)

I'd assume Bastian participation in the slave trade would poke at the other nations, especially if the majority of slaves go the mines instead of becoming relatively well-treated gladiators. I was thinking of them having an agreement with the slavers in SylvesterandTweety (I don't remember how to spell the name) not to snatch up Bastian citizens, humans included. They would be valued enough to try to take back if stolen. The population of the Dominion is small enough as is. They can't really afford to lose valuable laborers to a bunch of barbarians, even if those laborers are second-class citizens.

There are trading towns on their side of the wall. Most trade would be done by sea, though, much of it flowing through OTL Anchorage.

Other plot lines I was thinking of was a French Revolution in miniature from a rising middle class who don't appreciate being looked down on, potential civil war from a group of anti-Hyenork nobles who want to crush the barbarians, or throwing those two and the slavery issue into one big conflagration. I don't think I'd have time for something that big, though.

[madd0ct0r]

I could certainly see a few Hyenorks going big in the gladiator circuit as the baddies

[The Romulan Republic]

So just to recap where we're at:

I'm looking over the stuff from the last few pages and making further alterations to the rules to take into account various suggestions/issues that have come up, with a more complete version going up near the end of the week, shortly followed by the OOB thread.

The main story thread will go up next week, before Christmas, as previously discussed. Which day I'm not yet sure, but I'm aiming for "as soon as possible." That said, if you are busy over the holidays and can't post until after Christmas day, that's fine. I'll be here, regardless, to get the ball rolling, and I know Simon_Jester wanted to post before Christmas as well.

Edit: If you've already posted your OOB here, just copy-past when I put up the OOB thread, with any necessary edits, so we have them all in one place where they're easy to find.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Yeah, my OOB definitely needs editing, not just to replace my battleships with heavy frigates, but because I suddenly have 3x as many points to play with for my army...I'm going to have a lot more Regiments than I initially planned

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, I increased the points to accommodate larger nations/militaries, which their seemed to be some basis for. I apologize if it inconvenienced anyone.

It made no difference to me, because I was planning to play a smaller faction anyway. My people are nomads/refugees from a fallen civilization, after all.

[Raw Shark]

Sorry for no quotes; posting from a borrowed tablet.

Simon_Jester has the right of it. I don't want Not!Spanish ground forces anywhere near my territory, and would have to be very desperate to call their navy in. I just think it's funny if we have a trade relationship that strongly disfavors them, and intend to pay for any of their assets that actually come into the game myself.

With regard to state of the art technology in astronomy and medicine, I am referring to the best anybody else can do without magic. We exceed nobody in anything except crazy.

The yodeling cacti are about as perceptive as an average human, but most can't do anything else. About 1 in 100 is willing to prematurely explode itself, flinging spines like shrapnel, (their method of reproduction) to kill interlopers, but those count as early-skirmishing army units.

Regarding the Gods: I was thinking of putting this completely in TRR's hands, suggesting a 1d6 roll for results, except when somebody obviously acts against one of their interests. There's no god of the Aztec people ourselves, so potential conquerors never fall into that category on principle unless they specifically state that they will not continue the sacrifices; anything else can only piss off or encourage specific gods, not all of them. I was thinking, in the absence of obvious motives, something like:

1: The gods stage a mass intervention in my favor for whatever reason.

2: The gods stage a mass intervention in my favor if I make huge sacrifices to them; Pyrrhic victory.

3: The invaders run afoul of one God on their own, or one decides my cause is just, or whatever. Lots of guys die on the other side.

4: The gods ignore the situation, fight each other, or think it's funny.

5: One God intervenes against me and I lose really, really badly.

6: We're fucked.

[The Romulan Republic]

Sorry for no quotes; posting from a borrowed tablet.

Simon_Jester has the right of it. I don't want Not!Spanish ground forces anywhere near my territory, and would have to be very desperate to call their navy in. I just think it's funny if we have a trade relationship that strongly disfavors them, and intend to pay for any of their assets that actually come into the game myself.

Fair enough.

With regard to state of the art technology in astronomy and medicine, I am referring to the best anybody else can do without magic. We exceed nobody in anything except crazy.

Okay, that's fine, obviously.

The yodeling cacti are about as perceptive as an average human, but most can't do anything else. About 1 in 100 is willing to prematurely explode itself, flinging spines like shrapnel, (their method of reproduction) to kill interlopers, but those count as early-skirmishing army units.

Cool.

Regarding the Gods: I was thinking of putting this completely in TRR's hands, suggesting a 1d6 roll for results, except when somebody obviously acts against one of their interests. There's no god of the Aztec people ourselves, so potential conquerors never fall into that category on principle unless they specifically state that they will not continue the sacrifices; anything else can only piss off or encourage specific gods, not all of them. I was thinking, in the absence of obvious motives, something like:

1: The gods stage a mass intervention in my favor for whatever reason.

2: The gods stage a mass intervention in my favor if I make huge sacrifices to them; Pyrrhic victory.

3: The invaders run afoul of one God on their own, or one decides my cause is just, or whatever. Lots of guys die on the other side.

4: The gods ignore the situation, fight each other, or think it's funny.

5: One God intervenes against me and I lose really, really badly.

6: We're fucked.

Putting divine intervention to a dice roll is a reasonable idea. I found some online die rollers I could use if that's alright (I don't know if I have physical dice any more ).

But if I'm understanding this, that still leaves your Gods smacking down anyone who tries to end the sacrifices, for example.

And of course, the rules on this would have to apply consistently to anyone else who had comparable deities.

Having the gods in some capacity is certainly workable, however.

Edit: However, it occurs to me that the only way the sacrifices could be ended entirely would be if your entire nation was overrun, and as we discussed earlier, we don't want anyone's faction actually forced out of the game, so I'd probably be okay with you unleashing divine wrath in that scenario, provided it was targeted only at invading forces and not wiping their home country off the map or something like that. Provided everyone else is okay with this arrangement.

[Simon_Jester]

One idea I had is that if one of our nations wants to engage in acts of divine or quasidivine intervention, or other forms of "grand strategic magic" that have consequences on the strategic level and not just the tactical... maybe they should just pay points for it. Not in the sense of 'spend points to summon a god,' because then the god would be standing around as a permanent asset of your military that no one has the power to get rid of. But in the sense of 'spend points on this specific act of intervention,' such that grand strategic magic only ever happens if someone's willing to pay for that specific act of magic.

The points would be commensurate with the scale of the event- high magic that results in the fall of a major city might well cost in the tens of thousands of points, commensurate with the size of the army it would take to capture it by normal means.

Yeah, my OOB definitely needs editing, not just to replace my battleships with heavy frigates, but because I suddenly have 3x as many points to play with for my army...I'm going to have a lot more Regiments than I initially planned

You might want a core of ships of the line now, because affording them isn't such a stretch.

[The Romulan Republic]

That's an interesting option regarding deities, and it sounds fairly simple, which I like.

I'll give others a chance to weigh in before coming to a decision as to exactly how deities will be handled, but the important thing is that we have a way to include them that is not unbalanced but which does not unduly limit peoples' creativity.

Also, I should mention that at my request, Simon_Jester has kindly agreed to act as a back up host/game moderator for this STGOD, meaning that he'll fill in for me if I'm temporarily unavailable for any reason. Provided no one has any objection to this.

[Aasharu]

Well, I've been rewriting and expanding the history of Tarn, and I've got Arjuna as the child of a god and a mortal woman, and so with access to a divine amount of power. He's currently dormant, and I've written in that it would take a massive sacrifice to bring him back, probably something like sacrificing Sanctuary, so he would cost a boatload of points.

[Jub]

One idea I had is that if one of our nations wants to engage in acts of divine or quasidivine intervention, or other forms of "grand strategic magic" that have consequences on the strategic level and not just the tactical... maybe they should just pay points for it. Not in the sense of 'spend points to summon a god,' because then the god would be standing around as a permanent asset of your military that no one has the power to get rid of. But in the sense of 'spend points on this specific act of intervention,' such that grand strategic magic only ever happens if someone's willing to pay for that specific act of magic.

The points would be commensurate with the scale of the event- high magic that results in the fall of a major city might well cost in the tens of thousands of points, commensurate with the size of the army it would take to capture it by normal means.

This was how I was thinking of handling the summoning of lake monsters and other such minor deity level spirits. I'd probably wind up paying for them out of the replacement budget, as supplies used to summon a nature spirit can't be used to butter up a totem or feed warriors.

[Simon_Jester]

My idea is that, past some point, high point-value beings should not be part of an order of battle. They should simply exist, with whatever super-abilities they have being theirs in-story... but whenever they intervene in a way with major consequences for the fighting forces or political boundaries or economic well-being of nations, the country on whose behalf they operate should have to pay appropriate points.

Basically, if you can imagine a being or creature being killed in a random battle by "just any" part of an opposing armed forces (assuming enough units are sent in), then it can be a creature with a point value. If you summon up a zombie dragon that it would take the massed weapons and magics and whatever of a regiment of troops to destroy, then that zombie dragon can be worth as many points as the regiment of troops- potentially thousands. That's not a problem. You bring on your dragon, I'll bring on my tercio, whichever of the two is hard enough and written convincingly enough wins.

But a being whose presence on the battlefield is equal to that of tens of thousands of soldiers would be so powerful, no plausible mortal hero or creature of the normal world, including magical heroes and creatures, could confront it. For such a being to be defeated, or even to be thwarted, would be a major plot point in the story of the nation it comes from.

Such entities do not belong in an order of battle, because there's no meaningful way that lesser beings could damage them or weaken them. They can't plausibly be "worn down" by attacking over and over; it's not feasible for fifty thousand swordsmen to all surround a single invulnerable god-of-swordsmanship and keep pressing the attack all day until the last one finally gets him. It's not viable to surround such a being with all the artillery pieces in your army and keep shooting, despite the fact that one cannonball is like being hit with a tennis ball to him, until he finally goes down.

The only way to stop them would be to hit them with a being of comparable power.

It's just... not reasonable, at some point. Everything in my order of battle is something an enemy should theoretically be able to somehow remove in a realistic fashion. If a being is worth tens of thousands of points, that stops being plausible.

So instead of adding such ultra-beings to an order of battle and just saying "I have summoned the god of war, who is worth 150000 points," we should be thinking in terms of "the god of war appears and shatters the left flank of the Whozittian Army, an effect costing me 5000 points and winning the battle as the Whozittians retreat from their position on the heights, taking heavy casualties."

Then you have an opportunity cost that actually means something, because your military may well end up being outnumbered as you expend energies and resources on these flashy ultra-interventions. And you simply have to come up with in-story justifications for why ultra-beings do not routinely interfere all the time.

In my case that would be easy- I've already got the justification planned out in case the situation ever arises.
______________

Now, the cutoff for this is not hard and fast. It's plausible that a thousand-point monster would be a routine part of your order of battle... because it's not unrealistic to imagine a massed force of a thousand men, supported by mighty wizards or powerful weapons, that could somehow defeat such a threat. I'm in the process of writing such a story myself.

But while the thousand-point monster could work out that way, a fifteen thousand point monster would not. Fifteen thousand point monsters are too big and destabilizing because there's no OOC-convincing way to write them losing.

[Jub]

Yup, we're on the same page.

[Raw Shark]

I'm fine with that arrangement, as long as I don't have to pay for anything I got from a die-roll that could've screwed me. If somebody invades me and I don't pay for favorable divine intervention, then the dice come out. If I'm dictating how a specific God acts in a specific scene, I pay through the nose.

Invaders pissing off the gods by stepping on their toes is mostly just common sense stuff. If you don't brag about ending the sacrifices, they assume the sacrifices will continue. If you start salting the Earth, the Farm God will be all up in your shit with a quickness. Stuff that everybody knows, or can guess. When the invading army has the Mushroom or Butterfly God descend upon them in a murderous rage for no apparent reason, that's something I paid for.

Wiping out invaders at their home isn't something the gods do. They're primarily concerned with my territory, other than the Ocean God, and while one might go on a random killing spree anywhere, they won't start defending other turf unless I have conquered it good and proper by other means. Also, these guys aren't as strong as cannon balls = tennis balls, as I tried to imply upthread. More like Ares in the Iliad: He shows up and mass carnage ensues, but one brave spearman with incredible luck and skill runs him through, he lets out a scream that stops the battle for a full minute, and retreats to Olympus to get drunk and hit up Aphrodite for a pity fuck. Not to say that D&D or even Judeo-Christian self-styled deities don't intervene elsewhere, but what the Aztecs have is a little more down to Earth than that.

Regarding the dice idea, I was thinking 2d6 would be better than 1d6, for the bell curve, with gods do nothing useful results clustered around the center.

[Zwinmar]

As far as the die roll I would prefer something like:

1D100:
1-Were fucked
2-99-Nothing
100- they intervene.

I'm not a fan of having some super powered children having any kind of domain over anyone. If anything, I'd rather it be more like Rifts.

[Raw Shark]

Super-powered children having domain is kind of the whole point on my end of things. It's a scary place to live. Invading us cannot have meticulously-calculated results, and that is my intention.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, given that a small army of a thousand men with some cannons of their own could easily run to a couple of thousand points, and we could literally all have a hundred such small armies*, anything that can't tank a cannonball or otherwise survive being shot at with cannons a few dozen times isn't really "up there" compared to the standards of our militaries.

Now you can imagine a being for whom being shot with a mundane cannonball is like being punched, in which case getting shot at by my army cannons is like being punched by, oh, me, whereas at the other end of the scale getting shot at by Orion cannons is like being punched by Manny Pacquiao- whole different order of problem.

But basically, it's the divide between "can be made to go away by shooting at it" and "requires the literal intervention of a deity-level being to make go away." Ares from the Iliad was somewhere in between, in that it took Athena guiding Diomedes' spear for it to actually hurt him, but Diomedes could at least approach Ares and get into shanking range without just being reduced to a smear on the ground by the sheer force of the light reflecting off Ares' divine pecs or something.

I have an illustration of this issue coming up in the story posts I'm drafting.
_____________________

*And by 'army' I really mean 'regiment...'

[Crazedwraith]

To catch up a couple of things mentioned about Goblins. I figure there should be some enclaves of them elsewhere given that they are native. But maybe they've got out competed in most other locations so they're not common. I think them being able to make good lenses for trade should work. As for religious conversion. I'm not picturing them as very religious, they're materialistic and practical for the most part. Proper propping keeps tunnels up, not prayers. Though there is a segment of the population that believe heavily in luck. The human half of the nation has a great variety of religion as they are the drips and drabs of many colonial efforts. Like any nation, the successful will not be tempted, but you may get some converts from the those the system is working out for.

---

Going to try and figure out an Order Of Battle over the weekend. Just trying to figure out how to handle it with the idea that the Duke form Warbands on as needed basis. I likely won't be laying out my first allotment points straight away. Can I leave some as potential levees that could be quickly called up on need? Then ennumerate the standing forces; ie) the guards and the current dukes and personal retinues. Maybe give a few examples of the make/point allocation of a 'typical' warband? There may be a few already formed. Do any of my neighbours (tarn, zwinmar, sylix or fusang) figure we’d currently have tension brewing? I’m figuring Tarn especially s nation of undead to the south can’t rest well on the mind.

We were going 1 point = 1 well equipped man, yes? Does well equipped include a mount or would that be another point or two? I’m lazy enough to figure 1 goblin = 1 human point wise and goblin-man with the heavy physique as 1.5.

[The Romulan Republic]

That last bit is more or less right.

As of the last version of the rules I posted (to be updated by the end of the week), this is where it stands:

"As a baseline, one point equals one ordinary human militiaman with a musket."

In other words, one ordinary soldier, nothing fancy or elite or supernatural, but with reasonably up to date weaponry.

[Zwinmar]

More interested in trading there Crazy. Though if you wish minor skirmishes can happen on occassion though as a whole I don't see where the conflict would be. Though do need a city on that side of the map as a trading hub.

Way I'm figured the cavalry is 2 points per (one for trooper the other for the war wolf). Primarily a cavalry force as it is mostly steppes up there. Though I am going for more of a winged hussar on war wolves so, may well cost more.

Thyrsian towns would be more spread out so there would be garrisons sprinkled across the plains. Reason for this is because the major livestock is buffalo, with wood products coming from acres of bamboo growth. Except around the mining centres of course which would be far more heavily fortified.

[Jub]

Do any of my neighbours (tarn, zwinmar, sylix or fusang) figure we’d currently have tension brewing? I’m figuring Tarn especially s nation of undead to the south can’t rest well on the mind.

The Syilx probably raid you just like they do any other neighbor.

I made a post about the Syilx attitude towards raiding and trading in slaves earlier and I'll copy that here.

TRR, one thing that occurs to me is that if elves are nigh-immortal, then either they breed slowly or they kill each other off a lot and few of them survive more than a century or so. Thing is, if elves breed slowly, then when dealing with faster-lived races, "eye for an eye" tactics can result in them being destroyed by attrition. It's a simple, blunt reality- if elves and humans fight, and each side kills 10% of the other, then within twenty years the human population will be more or less back to normal, while the elf population won't even have begun to recover.

So you may see elves holding grudges against whole ethnic groups or otherwise trying to make it utterly impossible for the fast-breeding, swarming humanoids around them to start whittling them down by attrition.

Another possibility is that the Syrax (did I get that right?) have a de facto practice of capturing elves into slavery and ransoming them back right away, and rarely if ever actually keep their prisoners for any length of time. This would seem to be in keeping with the Syrax culture, and it turns a motive for lifelong vengeance ("You kidnapped, enslaved, and carried away my sister to a foreign land!") into something that can conceivably be forgiven ("you kidnapped my sister and treated her with irritating amusement and kept her stuck in a tent in the boonies until we could scrape up a pile of gold bricks!")

Syrax is close, and a damned cool name, but it's actually Syilx. I had to look up the pronunciation and it turns out it's pronounced se-ilx, not silks as I had thought.

You basically nailed what my people do with their raids. They raid, they get shot at, and usually run off with a handful of captives. A tribe taking captives for sport, or as a right of passage, will leave a sign behind letting their victims know who they need to trade with to get their people back. This type of raiding usually sees captives traded back without too much stubbornness over the exact price being met. Of course, if they're obviously being lowballed they play the game right back. In the case where nobody comes forward to trade for them or a group of simply tries to take the captives back by force, the captives become slaves.

Slaves don't have much by way of status and often do the manual labour that other people don't want to do, but they're given decent housing, fed well - if not with the finest foods, and aren't expected to work hours that any other labourer would baulk at. During their off hours they're allowed to socialise so long as they've not tried to escape. It's also customary to give them an allowance to spend, and given that their food and housing needs are covered by their owners some slaves have more free income than lower class non-slaves. Slaves are free to, and in fact, encouraged, to marry and start families.

Slaves with exceptional skill, guile, or charisma, as well as those that end up with very large, and thus powerful, families tend to be released. Their wives, children, grandchildren, and so on down the line are released with them. Usually the release of anybody with a reasonably sized family results in a festive feast. Due to this system of releasing slaves some now prominent tribes started off as families of slaves. The downside to this is that some tribes split up families, deny the familial connections between slaves, and generally do shady things to keep from having to release significant numbers of slaves.

Groups taking captives to sell as slaves tend raid far less often, but are far more ruthless when they do raid. These are the kinds of raids that leave villages burned with as few witnesses left behind as possible. They also tend to raid other Syilx tribes if they think they can get away with it. Those in change or the Syilx can't come out against these types of raids officially, but groups that engage in this kind of raiding don't tend to get invited to important gatherings.

Their captives are sold as slaves, first in Syilx lands, then back to the lands they were taken from, and if nobody else wants them to Tarn. The Syilx look down upon having to buy slaves from slave traders preferring to gain them through raids, in the course of normal trade with other tribes, or having them included in the bride price at a wedding. Still, a weaker and less prestigious tribe, or a prestigious tribe that has fallen upon hard times will buy slaves in this fashion as a way to help them leapfrog other groups in terms of economic output. As a result, purchased slaves tend to be worse off than other classes of slaves.

It's entirely up to you how much or little friction that causes between our nations, but either way dealing with this aspect of Syilx culture will probably make for some good story posts.