2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby RogueIce » 2014-11-14 03:38pm

That's about the best way to handle that. It's pretty hard to prevent every attack - we can't stop all criminal activity and illegal persons/items being brought into our countries, after all - especially if they're using the cover of another nation's diplomatic service to do so. So as long as there is a strong and effective response, and E_F has said there will be, Orion shouldn't suffer too much of a hit from this.

Fuso, for their part, should react quickly. I would say - in addition to the usual denouncements and such - that some quick kangaroo courts of convenient scapegoats are in order. Of course real investigations should also be conducted, quite vigorously. But for the immediate public consumption, hang some people out to dry. You can worry about whether they were actually involved through a lengthy appeals process that quietly concludes several months from now when global attention has moved on to other things.

Because it'll be hard to deny the attackers came from Fuso, regardless of the outcome. So crackdowns on those radical student groups where the attackers were drawn from are probably in order.

Continuing on, the Orions may or may not be able to link Tatsuya to anything. Depends on how well he distanced himself, if those he had to make contact with ended up dead, and so on. Especially if a strong Orion counterattack brings it up short, Tatsuya is probably smart enough to cancel whatever active role he intended to play and go along as just another member of the Fusoan security detail. Biding his time for the next opportunity to strike.

But that little bit is between Shinn and E_F.

That's just my suggestion, anyway. :)
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2014-11-14 03:42pm

Simon_Jester wrote:I think that the "okay, everyone wait for the Olympus Has Fallen incident" vibe did a lot to choke off what had previously been a quite active IC discussion of politics and terrorism at the conference, because we knew something big was supposed to happen... and then it never did.


What choke? No one was waiting for anything. Activity just died down people no one had ideas on how to continue.

As for the whole keruffle over Olympus has fallen, did E_F agree to anything before the initial posts were put up? If he did, how does one just back out and retcon everything that was written before?
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby madd0ct0r » 2014-11-14 03:56pm

it wasn't so much had no idea how to continue for me - i just didn't want to debate terrorosim for 13 odd pages in character.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Siege » 2014-11-14 03:56pm

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:To keep going with the Olympus Has Fallen schtick, holding Fuso's government responsible for Tatsuya's plan is like holding the South Korean government responsible for allowing Kang Yeonsak to infiltrate as far as he did.


Actually I would have no problem holding the South Koreans and North Koreans responsible for that particular situation. If someone high up/well connected in your administration/security apparatus orchestrates an attack on that scale I wouldn't take "I pinky promise I didn't know anything!" for an answer. Bin Laden wasn't with the Taliban but the mere fact that he was in their country and they weren't perceived to cooperate fully meant they got steamrolled anyway.

Also, while Tatsuya's been set up as the mastermind of this particular attack, who's to say that he's not merely carrying out the plans of an even greater power? Remember when the Shinra Republic captured that Nipponese fugitive? Conspiracies within conspiracies, and Ostrheinland's at the heart of it all.


No you don't get to blow up someone's capital and then deflect it when they spin it right back at you. Deflect it into Thanas' face, no less. If (big if!) E_F rolls with it and writes it in a manner where he holds your government culpable I'm fully willing to enforce that.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-14 04:03pm

Incidentally, even [i]if[/i[ you managed to generate convincing evidence of Rheinland's involvement, that would only delay the response. Since we, y'know, just signed a major treaty with them, we could quite easily find out if they were indeed resolved. Doubly so since we just save their delegates, along with everyone else's.

The story post is in progress.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-14 05:04pm

Story post is up. Olympus Stands.

As promised, the 4th Airbourne and 6th Commando roll up to save the fucking day.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby RogueIce » 2014-11-14 05:36pm

I would only comment that - since you did initially agree to it, and madd0ct0r at least got a post indicating it was occurring before you rescinded on the idea - Shinn should get the choice of whether Tatsuya exposed himself or elected to try and ride it out when security precautions appeared to be more than he expected.

Whether the captured insurgents outside the palace would ultimately give him up (or be able to, if they knew him by name and/or face) in the days and weeks to come is another matter, of course.

The quick resolution however is only fair: it is your country and your security forces, and obviously a heightened alert and strong plan is only reasonable given the history of why this conference came to be.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-14 05:58pm

I see the quick resolution as being due to the very different circumstances from the film. There was no aerial incursion to eliminate some of the security forces, a much larger sealed chamber with armed and alerted troops present, out of range of hand to hand combat, and with so many delegates we would undoubtedly be on high alert.

EDIT: As for the guy outing himself, from his perspective it was the best chance he was going to get; he had no way of knowing that the external attack would fail so spectacularly, or that extra forces were in place as a contingency. As far as he could tell, things were going as planned.

EDIT 2: Besides, I gave Shinn four hours notice that this would be the result, he made no protest, even though he replied before i made the story post.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Simon_Jester » 2014-11-14 06:29pm

Hey, E_F, could we collaborate on interrogation? Delphinium Archer would actually be a very very good interrogator.

As I said, petit-perception is a lovely thing.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Incidentally, even if you managed to generate convincing evidence of Rheinland's involvement, that would only delay the response. Since we, y'know, just signed a major treaty with them, we could quite easily find out if they were indeed resolved. Doubly so since we just save their delegates, along with everyone else's.

The story post is in progress.
Uh, I think when he says "Ostrheinland" he doesn't mean Thanas. He means Nipponese separatists with a grudge against Fuso. So the Rheinland government is not responsible, though they might reasonably be asked to cooperate in any attempt to pursue the responsible group because they currently have jurisdiction over Nippon East Germany Ostrheinland.

In that case, Fuso is not responsible for the attacks in a policy sense, but is definitely responsible for letting a Nipponese separatist mole get to a high echelon in their security forces undetected.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-14 06:47pm

Simon_Jester wrote:Hey, E_F, could we collaborate on interrogation? Delphinium Archer would actually be a very very good interrogator.

As I said, petit-perception is a lovely thing.


Certainly. Perhaps Orion would invite a neutral third-party to observe/aide in the interrogations, so as to avoid everyone going nuts about the swiftness of Orion justice like last time.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Incidentally, even if you managed to generate convincing evidence of Rheinland's involvement, that would only delay the response. Since we, y'know, just signed a major treaty with them, we could quite easily find out if they were indeed resolved. Doubly so since we just save their delegates, along with everyone else's.

The story post is in progress.
Uh, I think when he says "Ostrheinland" he doesn't mean Thanas. He means Nipponese separatists with a grudge against Fuso. So the Rheinland government is not responsible, though they might reasonably be asked to cooperate in any attempt to pursue the responsible group because they currently have jurisdiction over Nippon East Germany Ostrheinland.

In that case, Fuso is not responsible for the attacks in a policy sense, but is definitely responsible for letting a Nipponese separatist mole get to a high echelon in their security forces undetected.


Certainly Thanas would not be responsible. But presumably Rheinland's intelligence agencies would be aware of any such groups and would be able to verify that no officials in Ostrheinland had been involved.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-14 06:52pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:I think that the "okay, everyone wait for the Olympus Has Fallen incident" vibe did a lot to choke off what had previously been a quite active IC discussion of politics and terrorism at the conference, because we knew something big was supposed to happen... and then it never did.


What choke? No one was waiting for anything. Activity just died down people no one had ideas on how to continue.

As for the whole keruffle over Olympus has fallen, did E_F agree to anything before the initial posts were put up? If he did, how does one just back out and retcon everything that was written before?


I initially approved of the idea. However, as the conference proceedings dragged on I became bored with the idea and wanted to move on, and said as such. I had no idea that SHinn had such material ready to go. I had no communication at all in fact.

As for retconning everything that went before, we had one post that referred to "something" happening in Paradise City. As it stands I haven't retconned things, I've just crafted a response that shows how absurd the attack would be given the widely different situations.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Shinn Langley Soryu » 2014-11-14 07:50pm

Secretary Shirogane is a she, actually. :P

As for Tatsuya outing himself, Rogue's right. He's my guy, I get the final say on his fate. After seeing what E_F wrote (and what he wrote was quite excellent, by the way), I actually have another idea for what to do with him...
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-14 08:48pm

Is she? Oh I'm sorry, I'll go back and tweak that.

Are you happy with Tatsuya being captured?
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Simon_Jester » 2014-11-14 08:49pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Hey, E_F, could we collaborate on interrogation? Delphinium Archer would actually be a very very good interrogator.

As I said, petit-perception is a lovely thing.
Certainly. Perhaps Orion would invite a neutral third-party to observe/aide in the interrogations, so as to avoid everyone going nuts about the swiftness of Orion justice like last time.
Allow me to explain.

Delphinium is not an ordinary foreign affairs geek. She is one of a relatively select body of individuals in Umeria who have received advanced training in various mental disciplines from what was once an oriental monastery in the mountains and is now the Waterville Institute for Advanced Logic. The Institute is now, and has long been, devoted to the advancing of human potential through development of the mental sciences, techniques for efficient thought, and cultivating both keen awareness and intuitive grasp of complex systems.

The cumulative effect of spending several centuries on this, and combining it with actual research in areas like neuroscience and information theory, is the ability to take an already highly intelligent and mentally disciplined person, and turn them into (more or less) a Sherlock Holmes.

So Delphinium, for example, can do things that would be freakish savant feats of intellect for most people. Like reading at something upwards of a hundred thousand words an hour, like being able to fully keep track of their surroundings mentally rather than only being able to focus on one or two things at a time as most people do, like having extraordinary memory and ability to analyze large masses of details for key conclusions, like being able to observe facial and body language with exceptional precision and detail.

And in honor of Dune I'm calling them 'mentats,' there's a fair amount of Frank Herbert in their creation.

I hope no one has a major problem with this; the idea of being able to unlock useful human mental potential through improvements on education is a longtime interest of mine. It's also my answer to Siege's shapeshifting aliens and cyborgs and potential rogue AIs. ;)

So, anyway.

Delphinium is a mentat in the employ of the Umerian government. Given her particular specializations she'd likely make a very effective interrogator because of her ability to read a person, and to deduce facts from seemingly subtle hints (what I'm calling "petit perception," again from Dune).

[Note: the monastery does take non-Umerians, although they have to have the 'right' kind of mind and mindset before showing up in the first place. Basically, logical and committed to the pursuit of clear thinking as such, not just as a means to an end. Or that's my current image of the concept...]

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Incidentally, even if you managed to generate convincing evidence of Rheinland's involvement, that would only delay the response. Since we, y'know, just signed a major treaty with them, we could quite easily find out if they were indeed resolved. Doubly so since we just save their delegates, along with everyone else's.

The story post is in progress.
Uh, I think when he says "Ostrheinland" he doesn't mean Thanas. He means Nipponese separatists with a grudge against Fuso. So the Rheinland government is not responsible, though they might reasonably be asked to cooperate in any attempt to pursue the responsible group because they currently have jurisdiction over Nippon East Germany Ostrheinland.

In that case, Fuso is not responsible for the attacks in a policy sense, but is definitely responsible for letting a Nipponese separatist mole get to a high echelon in their security forces undetected.


Certainly Thanas would not be responsible. But presumably Rheinland's intelligence agencies would be aware of any such groups and would be able to verify that no officials in Ostrheinland had been involved.[/quote]
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-14 08:57pm

Simon: That sounds awesome. I was thinking in terms of the "official" reason for her being there :D
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Shinn Langley Soryu » 2014-11-14 09:40pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Is she? Oh I'm sorry, I'll go back and tweak that.

Are you happy with Tatsuya being captured?

I have other plans for him, plans that require that Tatsuya remain free, at least in the short term. After seeing what you wrote, I propose a minor alteration. What better way for Tatsuya to evade suspicion (and cut off two loose ends that could potentially lead investigators back to him and his Nipponese masters) than for him to drop the two infiltrators that tried to grab Attorney General Naegi and Director Kirigiri?
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Simon_Jester » 2014-11-14 10:06pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Simon: That sounds awesome. I was thinking in terms of the "official" reason for her being there :D
Well, she is an accredited senior member of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in addition to having nigh-superhuman skills at people-reading, three doctoral degrees, and a polyglot grab bag of languages.

Also, yes it is a matter of public record that she has a 'journeyman certification' from the Institute for Advanced Logic. Not all the Umerian mentats' identities are known, but a fair number of them are public officials in various government departments. Others go into the sciences, or all sorts of other things.

I suspect their capabilities are widely regarded as exaggerated, however. But that's my opinion.

E_F, if you want to write Delphinium as a character, could we collaborate on a googledoc? You could PM me a link.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-15 02:18pm

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:Is she? Oh I'm sorry, I'll go back and tweak that.

Are you happy with Tatsuya being captured?

I have other plans for him, plans that require that Tatsuya remain free, at least in the short term. After seeing what you wrote, I propose a minor alteration. What better way for Tatsuya to evade suspicion (and cut off two loose ends that could potentially lead investigators back to him and his Nipponese masters) than for him to drop the two infiltrators that tried to grab Attorney General Naegi and Director Kirigiri?


Ok, that can work. Can I change it to "he signalled his fellows to act, but instead of grabbing th Secretary began to move as if to stop them?"

Not only does he drop them, but appears to try and stop them as well? That way he can still get tasered but is released to the Fusoan embassy with an apology for getting caught up in the situation?

Simon: Certainly we can collaborate. If you could PM me some details of her character, personality traits and so forth, I can knock up a draft tomorrow and we can sort it out then?
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Shinn Langley Soryu » 2014-11-15 04:52pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Ok, that can work. Can I change it to "he signalled his fellows to act, but instead of grabbing th Secretary began to move as if to stop them?"

Not only does he drop them, but appears to try and stop them as well? That way he can still get tasered but is released to the Fusoan embassy with an apology for getting caught up in the situation?

Yeah, he moves to stop the other two infiltrators, then gets caught in the crossfire when the Orion SAS makes their own move. At least let him eliminate one of the infiltrators before he gets tasered.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-15 04:56pm

Ok I'll go and tweak that now.

That's tweaked now: he takes one own with a knife tot he neck and the carotid artery before getting tasered. He'll be released after some pro-forma questioning.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Simon_Jester » 2014-11-23 08:34am

Hm. Things have been stalled this past week.

This is a Umerian spacepost. The Umerians have just done their first orbital test of Star Rover, which is analogous to the DC-Y second phase prototype vehicle envisioned by McDonnell-Douglass's 1990s Delta Clipper design.

Star Rover can only manage one tonne of cargo to LEO, so it's not very impressive aside from the coolness factor of, well. Being a rocket that can take off, fly to orbit, and "land proudly on its tail, as God and Robert Heinlein intended."

Aside from "spectacular and moderately expensive space taxi for one person," it doesn't have much application.

Its successor, Star Caravan, is coming along in a few more years. Cargo version can handle five tons to polar orbit and ten to normal LEO. Passenger version uses that for passengers.

What makes the Star Rover/Caravan special is that the launch infrastructure is extremely cheap. you need the cryogenic liquid oxygen and helium to refuel it, a concrete pad, and a hangar structure no more than about 40 meters tall, which does NOT have to be able to do the elaborate assembly work of NASA's VAB. That turnaround time is short (potentially a few days or at most a week). And that flights are relatively cheap.

So it's a lightweight "space truck."

For the kind of payloads it can actually handle, Star Caravan should evolve into something that can outcompete pretty much any conventional "launch on a rocket from a gantry" model for launch costs. I've heard estimates in the hundreds of dollars per pound, typically; that may be optimistic but there's a lot of room for improvement because in real life the cost is around ten thousand a pound.

Of course, this is still some years down the road, and it's not like nobody else could develop something like this- quite the opposite. The technology would be easily replicated by any nation with a first rate technical infrastructure and about a 10-year development cycle (which the Umerians themselves are about 5-6 years into).

But since no one said they had an SSTO hopper rocket like this, including people who talked a fair bit about their space programs...

I hope no one will object if I get to declare this a Umerian first that has their country really really proud and singing and dancing in the streets?

Is that OK? Or must my parade be rained on? I'd be okay with that though it would make me a bit sad.
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Eternal_Freedom
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-23 08:41am

I'm fine with that, although I'm working on an Orion spacepost as we speak, plus the interrogation scenes.

And since Orion apparently really does ride hellfire to the stars, I'd best get cracking :D
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Simon_Jester » 2014-11-23 08:47am

Sorry, I quoted the version of Savitsky's song from our timeline, where nuclear weapons are a thing and Orion is a truly bizarre and impressive means of spacelift.

Now, E_F, if you're truly deadlocked on the interrogation post, could you dump it in a Googledoc and PM me the link so I can connect up and edit it? Maybe I can help us get things rolling again.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Eternal_Freedom » 2014-11-23 09:47am

Simon_Jester wrote:Sorry, I quoted the version of Savitsky's song from our timeline, where nuclear weapons are a thing and Orion is a truly bizarre and impressive means of spacelift.

Now, E_F, if you're truly deadlocked on the interrogation post, could you dump it in a Googledoc and PM me the link so I can connect up and edit it? Maybe I can help us get things rolling again.


Haha I thought it would be something like that, but it's fitting.

It's not so much being deadlocked as having had no time this week to work on it. I'll PM you when I have a draft.
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

“I’ve always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.” - Confederate General George Pickett, on being asked why his charge at Ghettysburg failed

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Postby Simon_Jester » 2014-11-23 12:11pm

You could PM me an outline. It'd be less of a bear to write, and having a skeleton to make snippets out of can help a lot, I've found. Worked for my term papers, too...

Also, hm. The Umerians can't offer space tourism on a barely tested platform, and by the time this thing is ready for commercial use, Star Caravan will be too. Although Star Rover might be adapted as the ultimate in "when you have to get there fast" transportation, in principle, for one person or very small cargoes. It can theoretically fly out of almost any airport of respectable size, given relatively minor modifications to the airport.

And so long as it's a Umerian operation, the pilot will always carry a slide rule. :D
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