2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

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Esquire
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Esquire » 2014-07-09 10:02pm

KlavoHunter, that's a brilliant piece of flavor (pun very much intended) text - good to know Komradistan is keeping the spirit of the Internationale alive. :D

Also, Vedic subcontinent, Simon? Is that NPCs 26, 19, and up?
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Simon_Jester » 2014-07-09 10:26pm

Re: Eternal_Freedom:

Well, on consultation with a friend, figure... about two maritime patrol aircraft and two ASW helicopters (one off each frigate), and I'm estimating operations costs at ten thousand an hour for the Ospreys and five thousand for the helicopters. We harassed your submarine for, like, 16-24 hours but the aircraft were operating in shifts once you were found, possibly with Stiletto and the surface combatants joining in the fun too.

So, eight hours per aircraft would be about 240 thousand dollars. Figure fifty thousand, pessimistically, for the sonobuoys we dropped looking for you, add extra expenses like fuel oil for the frigates that came sprinting over to give you crap on Admiral Resilient-Rope's orders...

I dunno, 300-400 thousand dollars? Half a million, tops? Orions might estimate half a million, operating their military hardware is probably more expensive than operating ours because you're a bunch of rich bastards. ;)

All that for a completely unscripted ASW exercise.
Esquire wrote:Also, Vedic subcontinent, Simon? Is that NPCs 26, 19, and up?
I think Siege just used that name for it. It's "India," more or less, since it's between a China-analogue and a Sorta Middle Easternishish country, with a Bangladesh-analogue in between.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2014-07-09 10:32pm

Cheers, I'll edit that in.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Simon_Jester » 2014-07-09 10:34pm

Nice spin control on your admiralty's part. It's very reassuring to know they think that way, in case I ever have to fight them. ;)
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2014-07-09 10:37pm

Now now, what were we saying about OOC knowledge :D

And thanks, I threw in Special Order 13 ages ago, before I even knew your sub was around, but in retrospect it worked quite nicely.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by KlavoHunter » 2014-07-09 10:37pm

Esquire wrote:KlavoHunter, that's a brilliant piece of flavor (pun very much intended) text - good to know Komradistan is keeping the spirit of the Internationale alive. :D
I'm trying to combine the sheer vicious pragmatism of Iran's Quds Force with some culture-war soft power. Clearly Komradistan isn't going around blowing up skyscrapers for sheer scale of terrorist acts, otherwise this one exploding wouldn't be as huge of a shock.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Simon_Jester » 2014-07-09 10:51pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Now now, what were we saying about OOC knowledge :D
It's not that I'm going to directly utilize that OOC knowledge.

It's that people dim enough to believe that this can or should be spin-controlled as anything other than Williams violating the most fundamental law of submarine tactics, and behaving in a way that could have gotten him killed and taken 130 other men (and women?) with him if the Umerians had itchy trigger fingers, probably shouldn't be running a navy.

Seriously, Captain Bear was prepared to fire an eight-torpedo spread into Spectre's hull if he thought she was about to try to sink him. And I'm pretty sure that attack plan would have worked, especially at seven kilometers' range. The tactics were mine but I consulted people who know more about naval warfare than both of us put together and would have honored their opinion in the matter, even if it had gone against me.

Williams might have taken Stiletto with him in that case, but even so you'd be trading a five thousand ton 80s-vintage nuclear attack submarine for a two thousand ton 60s-vintage diesel boat.

There was a very real possibility here, not a big chance but a chance, that you could have accidentally started a war with a nation ten times more populous than your own by having a bullying, overconfident ship of your own fleet provoke a completely unnecessary fight against a significantly inferior opponent... and losing.

And in my honest opinion, the main thing that prevented this outcome was the restraint, professionalism, and not-paranoia of the Umerian Navy.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2014-07-09 11:48pm

Sorry Orion. Corona's government is distinctly unhappy with your king. Though the public response will probably be more polite.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by RogueIce » 2014-07-10 12:17am

So, I expanded my earlier updates with an actual story post, for those interested.

The upshot is that out Battlegroup's official reason for visiting Corona is to commemorate the fact we fought on each other's side in that little war with Apelia, since having celebrations from various actions of the Great War is apparently the popular thing these days. As said, this is a genuine port visit with the full intent to foster good will between ourselves and Corona. That it keeps our ships near to Orion in case there are AVALANCHE targets to bomb in South America is just an added bonus.

Also we're distinctly cynical about the whole International League idea. Still, publically we're totally for it and willing to get in on the ground floor to setting this thing up. That our unspoken motive is that this stays a glorified Debate Club with no real teeth is our real reason for getting involved, but of course we're too nice to ever state so publically and totally think this is a great step on the path to ensure continued world peace. :D
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2014-07-10 12:42am

I expect things will be a tense between Shinra and Corona since Shinra's supporting Orion, but not so bad that my government would object to a feel-good visit. And it might be a good time to introduce the King of Corona.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by RogueIce » 2014-07-10 12:48am

The Romulan Republic wrote:I expect things will be a tense between Shinra and Corona since Shinra's supporting Orion, but not so bad that my government would object to a feel-good visit. And it might be a good time to introduce the King of Corona.
Yeah. I mean, as of the 4th we promise humanitarian aid in the wake of a national tragedy. Because we're nice like that. Antiterrorism support is being kept on the d/l pending confirmation it really was AVALANCHE.

I'm working on a post set after the King's little demonstration. Basically we'll tut tut them like most everyone else. On the other hand, it is AVALANCHE so we will have to at least offer to share information and some law enforcement resources perhaps. With a public statement that future endeavors should be much more transparent and run through formal judicial reviews, of course. We can do without summary execution, thank you very much.

We'll likely reconsider even the offer of overt military support (which we wouldn't have put out there unless a viable target happened to present itself anyway) because of the execution, though. Since we'd have to strongly consider that Orion forces might be a little too enthusiastic when it comes to terrorist hunting and we don't want to get splattered by the results - literally or figuratively, as the case may be. ;)
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"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
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"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by KlavoHunter » 2014-07-10 01:01am

Strategic Twitter Reserves deployed. Retweets commencing in 3, 2, 1...
"The 4th Earl of Hereford led the fight on the bridge, but he and his men were caught in the arrow fire. Then one of de Harclay's pikemen, concealed beneath the bridge, thrust upwards between the planks and skewered the Earl of Hereford through the anus, twisting the head of the iron pike into his intestines. His dying screams turned the advance into a panic."'

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Skywalker_T-65 » 2014-07-10 01:03am

Arcadia may be overtly supportive, but even we are a bit...leery...of the public execution.

Understand why it was done, yes. Necessarily support it? Eh...not really. Some do (as I pointed out earlier) but the majority of people are going to be either:

WTF MAN

or

...couldn't that have been done in private? After a trial?
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by TimothyC » 2014-07-10 01:04am

My update was just to keep things moving. Cookies for anyone able to get all of my references.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by KlavoHunter » 2014-07-10 01:08am

Skywalker_T-65 wrote:Arcadia may be overtly supportive, but even we are a bit...leery...of the public execution.

Understand why it was done, yes. Necessarily support it? Eh...not really. Some do (as I pointed out earlier) but the majority of people are going to be either:

WTF MAN

or

...couldn't that have been done in private? After a trial?
Don't forget the chest-thumping neanderthals out there who'll hoot and holler and consider the King of Orion to be their latest celebrity.

The chest-thumpers of Komradistan are hardly impressed, however.
"The 4th Earl of Hereford led the fight on the bridge, but he and his men were caught in the arrow fire. Then one of de Harclay's pikemen, concealed beneath the bridge, thrust upwards between the planks and skewered the Earl of Hereford through the anus, twisting the head of the iron pike into his intestines. His dying screams turned the advance into a panic."'

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Simon_Jester » 2014-07-10 01:11am

My latest is just a framing device- basically, these are the things it occurs to me for Umeria to say in response to the proposal to form an international forum for debate and whatevers. They are not a response to the aid proposals or anything else, just that in particular.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by RogueIce » 2014-07-10 01:13am

Ok, post up. Should be clear enough. But yeah. That Battlegroup is pretty much just there to make nice with Corona now. After the execution we just don't want to take the risk, especially with Orion's history and, well, his "you're with us or against us" speech. Luckily, diplomatically, we hadn't even extended the theoretical offer to them yet, so we get to dodge that bullet over holding back aid we never actually promised.

Still, we will have to - tentatively, at least - join the JATF they proposed thanks to the group claiming to be AVALANCHE. We just can't ignore that or take the chance there's a larger AVALANCHE out there we don't know about - who might very well decide blowing up a reactor in Midgar would totally be worth it, and try to bring down a building or two to make it happen.
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This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Steve » 2014-07-10 03:13am

A good thing the victory celebration invitations were announced in bulk, there's no way my President could have personally invited Alexander by name with him having pulled that stunt.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Gill » 2014-07-10 03:54am

The glorious Republic of Belkan fully condones the transparency that comes with public executions and will gladly support the Orionians [sic?] in its future anti-terror efforts.

Mind you, that support mostly boils down to sending, "contractors" for various, "black ops" equipped with small arms that would have been cutting edge stuff in the 50's and crop dusters with machine guns attached. Of course, it's a dirty job and someone has to do it.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Steve » 2014-07-10 04:02am

The official Cascadian reaction. Plus the related internet comment thread. For the lulz. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by RogueIce » 2014-07-10 05:32am

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This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Thanas » 2014-07-10 07:21am

BTW - I will have my post about the domestic policies up shortly, work is just kicking my ass right now.

I shall also have a different response to the king shooting people on stage and the invitation issue (Steve) online, but probably not before saturday.
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Thanas » 2014-07-10 09:05am

Steve wrote:Just for academic purposes, what was Rheinland's peace offer to them before the bombers flew?
Rheinland's demand was to recognize the continental part as their own, Britonia refused and started bombing, then offered a status ante bellum after having laid waste to Rheinland south (i.e. continued Britonian occupation of Rheinland and Rheinland de facto becoming a puppet state), Rheinland refused, after more bombing success Britonia offered again the same terms with the added demand of ceding Großbremen, then Rheinland went into "never surrender and accept nothing less than their surrender".
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Steve » 2014-07-10 10:08am

I see. Did you have any concept for what caused the hardline stance? I imagine it had to do with your history mentioning that appeasement parties allowed Rheinland to rebuild its military and reunify. Having the Rhenish attack after all probably gutted any reconciliatory political forces, leaving only warhawks who decided they wanted to reverse the clock.
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"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

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Re: 2014 STGOD OOC Commentary Thread 1

Post by Thanas » 2014-07-10 10:15am

Steve wrote:I see. Did you have any concept for what caused the hardline stance?
On Rheinland side, a desire to not be occupied by Briton and Nippon again and not to have it all be for nothing.

On Britonia's side, the desire to not be eclipsed by Rheinland completely in the industry department and the feeling that due to the bombers wrecking the south and they still having at least a naval balance they were winning (as their industry was still going despite U-boat attacks).
I imagine it had to do with your history mentioning that appeasement parties allowed Rheinland to rebuild its military and reunify. Having the Rhenish attack after all probably gutted any reconciliatory political forces, leaving only warhawks who decided they wanted to reverse the clock.
Right, a sort of "let's make sure this never happens again" on both parties who were pretty sick of each other after 80+ (and 300 years before that when Rheinland and Francia were still seperate) of conflict.

In retrospect, it would have been smarter for Rheinland to surrender in 1942, after all with their indsutry and population they were bound to eclipse them regardless. But the leadership did not like that idea (feared to be executed like the last ones), the population did not like the idea (occupation fears and of course having just defeated the Daedalean empire in the east so they though they were winning as well).
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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