SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby KhorneFlakes » 2012-05-23 12:36am

They will make lovely playthings for the kittens, don't you think?

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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Dark Hellion » 2012-05-23 12:39am

I got a buffer of manly greeks and goddamn bees to help.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-05-23 12:54am

Greeks, yes. Bees? No.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-05-31 12:21am

Hm. Can we put the Chi-Sque-Squeek to rimward of the Chamarrans and Capellans, say, about ten sectors below DH's proposed location? It makes them more exposed to the Chamarrans, but also means they're not occupying practically that entire region of space.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-05-31 02:18am

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/73239306/SDNW5_Map_Draft_5.png

There's a link to the latest iteration of the map. The proposed change of position for Dark Hellion is not included as he has not consented.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Dark Hellion » 2012-05-31 03:15am

Moving me down somewhere below the Volscians and cappelans would be fine with me.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby OmegaChief » 2012-05-31 06:31am

And for the record no objection from me to his new position either.

@Dark Hellion:
Though you might want to talk to Darkevilme a little about how the Chamarrans arriving affected the rats, given they only showed up ~half a century ago.

And the Authority popped up ~three centuries ago too, eventful area of space for sure.

I'll also need to talk to you shortly as we're starting the game soon, you'll get a bit of a role to play I think
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby KlavoHunter » 2012-05-31 06:50am

Is the League of Thought receptive to moving 'north' a little so I can fit a small Klavostan somewhere near the ferocious cat-barbarians?
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Skywalker_T-65 » 2012-05-31 09:09am

Still missing the new Arcadian (Okay, Furling technically) sector at G12. :wink:

Other than that though, nice to see the map shaping up nicely. I'm looking forward to the actual game now.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-05-31 12:47pm

KlavoHunter wrote:Is the League of Thought receptive to moving 'north' a little so I can fit a small Klavostan somewhere near the ferocious cat-barbarians?
There's room around Y23; that shouldn't be too big a problem even if they don't move. Also, one of the reasons I was considering having DH move is so that there'd be room for you to slip a small polity in there and still have more 'breathing room' for movement of ships through neutral space in that area- which is something of a crossroads.

Skywalker_T-65 wrote:Still missing the new Arcadian (Okay, Furling technically) sector at G12. :wink:
Will fix.

Other than that though, nice to see the map shaping up nicely. I'm looking forward to the actual game now.
Glad to hear it. I want to hold off a bit until I get replies from some of the people who haven't talked in a while.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby cadbrowser » 2012-05-31 02:25pm

Oooohhhh...I'm so pretty in pink! :shock:
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Akhlut » 2012-05-31 03:00pm

EDIT: GODDAMNIT, WRONG THREAD.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-05-31 04:59pm

cadbrowser wrote:Oooohhhh...I'm so pretty in pink! :shock:
It seemed appropriate for obsessive, humorless killbots with a thing for galactic conquest.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Beowulf » 2012-05-31 08:17pm

KlavoHunter wrote:Is the League of Thought receptive to moving 'north' a little so I can fit a small Klavostan somewhere near the ferocious cat-barbarians?


I could also move south a couple sectors.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-05-31 08:36pm

That may not be necessary; I'll be able to work it out soon.

One thing I'd like to do with the next (and tentatively final) draft is edit in some more shoals.

For example, looking at the way the map's distributed itself, a "dotted line" of shoal sectors a bit to coreward (up) from Sol might make sense, as a way of explaining why humans didn't expand very much in that direction, despite spreading out far more widely in other directions.

Another blob of shoals in the neighborhood of the Belkan Empire might make sense (note that shoals aren't impenetrable, so the Belkans could still be influencing worlds in the shoals and projecting power on the other side of them, assuming their charts and drive maintenance are both decent).

More... thinking, hm.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Skywalker_T-65 » 2012-05-31 09:09pm

Hmm...yeah that would make some sense wouldn't it? Also provide a nest for the VIKINGS to hide out and raid peoples shipping. The ideas write themselves :D
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Imperial528 » 2012-05-31 09:56pm

Since we have mentioned shoals...

Would it be safe to assume that the galactic core, by nature of being very dense, is in a sense a super-shoal? I would like to know this, as it ties into some of my prologue and background stuff.

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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-05-31 11:15pm

I'm not opposed to the idea that there are extreme navigational hazards between 'here' and the galactic core, although I hesitate to place it permanently out of reach. Remember that it would take about a year of travel at normal hyperdrive speeds to get there, and that's before any navigation hazards are factored in- it may simply be that ships from this region of space lack good information on how to navigate the areas closer to the core, and so are forced to proceed slowly. Plus of course, the risk of running into occupants of other galactic arms who see completely alien ships passing through and decide to do something nasty about it.

In general, I associate "shoals" with an unspecified set of conditions- very dense star clusters aren't necessarily shoals. Shoal geometries change slowly if at all, on timescales of thousands of years, although the best routes for navigating shoals can change on a timescale of years or decades (which is one reason why having good maps is such an advantage).
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Imperial528 » 2012-05-31 11:42pm

Hm, I see.

Navigational hazard works fine with me, since I essentially just need it so that Cerna has a reason to actually exist, instead of simply heading back to where they came from. The idea being that they decided to settle down since A. they're already a colony fleet and B. going through the core would be too dangerous, and going around it too far.

It also provides a reason why the parent nation hasn't succeeded in finding them, either.

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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-06-01 02:44am

Well, again, it would take a year to get there from here at best. Hyperdrive ships may not have the endurance to do it at all, unless very strangely and specially designed for the purpose- power consumption may be too high, for instance.

I feel more comfortable saying that anything more than... a large number but less than 20-40 sector widths beyond the map edges is effectively unexplored, except possibly for one-off expeditions that went off to see something in particular. For example, in the last game (and I'd like to port this over) there was a major Umerian expedition to a supernova that took place a few decades before game start and some thousands of light years coreward. And this was unusual, or supposed to be, that someone had gone that far out.

Serious navigational hazards located off-map help to explain that. What I'm hoping for is that "off-map" will be "the great Beyond," such that it doesn't drastically screw with anyone playing the game and that no one needs to make powerful statements about "IMPENETRABLE GALACTIC BARRIERS" or some such to explain the status quo.

Remember something I said, some time ago...

Basically, I don't want any one person needing to make hugely important statements about the game universe that might block out several other players' ideas, just for the sake of getting their backstory to work. If you need to think of another reason why the Cernans' home worlds never came looking for them, beyond "sailing eight months is hard and a lot of things can go wrong," try to keep it limited. Something like "the homeworlds believed the colony destroyed" or "the homeworlds fought among themselves and had no time or energy to go looking for a lost colony fleet" or even "the homeworlds were conquered by cyborgs and even now a refugee fleet is jumping its way here in search of the frakking Lost Colony" is better than "IMPENETRABLE GALACTIC BARRIER."
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Rabid » 2012-06-01 06:23am

Here's my proposal concerning the location of the Stellar Nation's Nomad Sectors at game start :


P-21
K-22
H-19
J-14
Q-11
U-7
Y-22
K-28
Y-12
D-6

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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Imperial528 » 2012-06-01 09:46am

Simon_Jester wrote:Remember something I said, some time ago...

Basically, I don't want any one person needing to make hugely important statements about the game universe that might block out several other players' ideas, just for the sake of getting their backstory to work. If you need to think of another reason why the Cernans' home worlds never came looking for them, beyond "sailing eight months is hard and a lot of things can go wrong," try to keep it limited. Something like "the homeworlds believed the colony destroyed" or "the homeworlds fought among themselves and had no time or energy to go looking for a lost colony fleet" or even "the homeworlds were conquered by cyborgs and even now a refugee fleet is jumping its way here in search of the frakking Lost Colony" is better than "IMPENETRABLE GALACTIC BARRIER."


I actually do have such a reason thought up, which basically boils down to the homeworld creating a long-range expedition fleet to go search, only for a nearby polity to think that such a fleet is meant for an invasion and declare war. After the war and rebuilding, the general public opinion is "Well, they're either doing well on their own or dead, so let's settle for monuments and maybe look for any transmissions."

I never imagined an "IMPENETRABLE GALACTIC BARRIER," rather it was more like an "Inconvenient galactic feature."

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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-06-01 12:10pm

Klavo, where exactly did you want to put Klavostan again?

Imperial528 wrote:I never imagined an "IMPENETRABLE GALACTIC BARRIER," rather it was more like an "Inconvenient galactic feature."
OK fine nevermind then.

Wanted to lay out the general principle, maybe got overzealous.
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-06-01 12:44pm

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/73239306/SDNW5_Map_Draft_6.png

Next draft of the map. For Rabid's nomad sectors I'm using his color of green, with a Romany wheel in black on top; it seemed appropriate-ish.

Rabid, please be advised of two things.
1) You have placed some of your nomad sectors near fierce and unreasonable powers.
2) If I need to place a nation such as Klavostan, and I have to displace one of your Nomad Sectors to do it, I will, because, well... nomads.

Everyone else, please be advised of two things.
3) If you want space nomads to go away, you can probably make them without too much trouble. No need for massacres, they're nomads, they get "go away."
4) If you really want the real estate one of those sectors occupies for a new country, well, see (2).
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Re: SDNW5 Map Discussion Thread

Postby Skywalker_T-65 » 2012-06-01 01:03pm

Yeah, putting nomads right next to the Belkans and Covvies? They are in trouble if either power gets uppity. And Arcadia is finally finished map wise, so I probably won't chime in on this thread much more.

Though...did you move Sol? I could have sworn I was closer to it than that...
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