SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-04-26 02:44pm

Umerians go to extraordinary means to ensure they are ruled by worthy tyrants.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:
Skywalker_T-65 wrote:Ouch...you just got burned Crossroads... :P

Naw.... I'm used to it by now.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Skywalker_T-65 » 2012-04-26 03:08pm

Yeah, but the Umerians are weird like that. Kind of like how they refuse to believe in the Grays so much. :P
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Shinn Langley Soryu » 2012-04-26 03:20pm

White Haven wrote:Basic self-preservation, really. With this many BEEEES around, there're good odds some of them are Spelling Bees.

Mayabird in SDNW4 Story Thread 2 wrote:“Spelling bees,” Geekstress read off, in English, having pulled up the (Solarian archive) entries on them. “A memetic bioweapon, based upon Bragulanized bees – I was right! - due to their aggression and unusual reactions to vowels...some stuff that's not important...looks like no one's sure who made them or first released them, but the important thing is that they react very, very angrily to bad spelling and most Atlantean post-humans have nasty allergies to the venom in their stings. Also supposedly they were all hunted down and driven to extinction decades ago.”

Perhaps in this 'verse, the Spelling Bees are yet another product of Umerian SCIENCE! gone awry. Too bad the Unified Imperium's on the other side of known space.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Vanas » 2012-04-26 04:23pm

Skywalker_T-65 wrote:Which could be hilarious...and thanks Simon, you just gave me an image of a giant bearded mech using a massive SPACE AXE to cut open a BEE ship and use the honey for its 'drink'. :shock:


This may be inadvisable. Doing that to normal bees makes the hive go into killfrenzy mode. Now they're doing it to an interstellar Bee empire.

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Moving on... I wanted to ask about THE BEES for a moment. With all the groups around the UISC, I want to have a bit of 'History' with them, informal conversations and such so we are on at least speaking terms.

What would the BEES version of 'first contact' consist of where things get offical?


Pretty much the same thing it consists of when it's informal. Bees aren't very good with deal with social standing, formaility and informaility and all that.
Once their first contact gets past the 'series of prime numbers' and translation stages, it pretty much just goes 'Hello! How are you! We are Bees!' and things along those lines. One imagines it freaked the League out the first time.
That said, translating Bee language is pretty difficult. They've got a handle on Space English, but anything else will take a while.
Last edited by Vanas on 2012-04-26 04:34pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Skywalker_T-65 » 2012-04-26 04:26pm

Oh I know the SPACE VIKINGS would be bloody idiots to do that. Hence why I'm not actually going to do it. Simon just gave me that mental image. In all likelihood the SPACE VIKINGS will just raid Bastian and Umeria (the closet powers that are large enough to justify raiding).
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Shinn Langley Soryu » 2012-04-26 04:47pm

Skywalker_T-65 wrote:Oh I know the SPACE VIKINGS would be bloody idiots to do that. Hence why I'm not actually going to do it. Simon just gave me that mental image. In all likelihood the SPACE VIKINGS will just raid Bastian and Umeria (the closet powers that are large enough to justify raiding).

Wait, didn't you say that the SPACE VIKINGS were supposed to be at square J-10 on the map? If that's still the case, then Umeria's closest territories are at least 10 sectors away, and I don't think they have any trade routes that go out towards Arcadia's general neighborhood. If they're willing to travel that far, though, maybe Neo Zeon vs. SPACE VIKINGS can still happen after all.

Given Neo Zeon's proximity to the Bastians and their desperate need for money and materiel, they could also engage in some piracy. Needless to say, these particular Space Germans would take a dim view of Space Scandinavians muscling in on their territory.

Alternately, the SPACE VIKINGS could try raiding the Cernans; they're (slightly) closer to home than Umeria.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-04-26 05:32pm

Bees aren't social animals. Bees are eusocial. There's a difference. :D

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Wait, didn't you say that the SPACE VIKINGS were supposed to be at square J-10 on the map? If that's still the case, then Umeria's closest territories are at least 10 sectors away, and I don't think they have any trade routes that go out towards Arcadia's general neighborhood. If they're willing to travel that far, though, maybe Neo Zeon vs. SPACE VIKINGS can still happen after all.
Given that the historical Vikings were known to raid Sicily, and successfully conquered the Ukraine, voyages that long would be totally in character.

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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Shinn Langley Soryu » 2012-04-26 05:45pm

The Ukraine I'm already familiar with, but this is the first I've heard of Vikings journeying to Sicily.

In any event, that changes things. How far would be too far for the SPACE VIKINGS, then? Would it be reasonable to see some of them as mercenaries in the Volscian Confederacy? That place can always use a few Norsemen with swords and axes.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Vanas » 2012-04-26 05:48pm

They're social in the way Bees are. They don't tend to mind people doing things near them, unless they do those particular things that flip the 'killfuck' switch.

Heck, they positively like having people around so they can learn how non-swarm entities work... considering there are so many types that Bees can't really tell apart.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Skywalker_T-65 » 2012-04-26 06:17pm

Bah, so I suck at reading the map, sue me. :P

Though I have heard of the raids on Sicily, plus the Vikings that got to North America. With that long distance travel, its not unreasonable to say the SPACE VIKINGS would spread far out to attack people. The Volscians might be stretching things since they are literally at the other end of the map, but I could see it happening.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Panzersharkcat » 2012-04-26 06:20pm

What happens if everybody decides to crack down on the Space Vikings?
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-04-26 06:21pm

Where's the fun in that?

Seriously, massively multiplayer wars of crushing are... discouraged. They're destructive for the game unless someone offers extreme provocation.

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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Skywalker_T-65 » 2012-04-26 06:23pm

And raiding and pillaging or not, I don't see the SPACE VIKINGS providing that sort of extreme provocation. They are just a single sector after all, hardly a real threat. Besides, it gives whoever they raid a legitimate reason to keep their military around. :wink:
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Shinn Langley Soryu » 2012-04-26 06:29pm

Also, considering the nature of the SPACE VIKINGS, most powers who have to deal with them (especially the more distant ones) will most likely dismiss them as just another pirate gang, certainly nothing to go to a war footing to deal with.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Fenreer » 2012-04-26 06:34pm

Fenreer wrote:My first post on this site is my Application To Join.

I'm Fenreer. Steve spent a good bit of time trying to recruit me here, but I was always putting it off in favor of doing this or that or the other thing. When I popped my head in awhile back, I'd seen the game had ended. Now, I see that it is returned. I want in.

I'm a moderately experienced forum gamer, though not in the single thread style, so it might take me a bit to get past the initial vertigo of dealing with threads reaching... 54 pages (!?!?), but I'll manage well enough.

For those of you familiar with the Ad Astra games over at a site(s) I won't name (not sure how this place looks on such things), I played a race called the Valatori with moderate competency (I'd like to think). Basically, Space Dwarves, though there was far more to them.

I'd like to take a second stab at the concept, so I'm asking for my random die rolls if I'm accepted in the game. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I take a second read-through of the rules.


Trying again. Looks like the mod-approval system places the post where it would have originally landed which meant it got buried.

Hi. Room for another?

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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Skywalker_T-65 » 2012-04-26 06:36pm

There's still plenty of room (not on the map though, that needs to be expanded...in my opinion at least). And it is entirely understandable that you got buried...this is a long thread after all.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby White Haven » 2012-04-26 06:36pm

It's probably for the best that the SPACE VIKINGS are too far away from the League. They'd be...short-lived pirates, otherwise.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Force Lord » 2012-04-26 06:50pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:I'm still trying to find out about the Centrists, I PM'ed Force Lord a while back but didn't hear back.


Erm, I didn't receive your PM. Mind re-sending it?

And sorry for my lack of attention, but recently I was a victim of a thief who took my cell phone and yesterday I had to go to the police HQ to see if they caught the right crook. That same day I had to stay up almost all night to tell the prosecutor and then a judge the events of the robbery. I currently have a prologue post on the pipeline, but I still haven't worked out how it will end up.

And I did say my nation will be mostly the same thing from SDNW4, so you guys don't have to worry of seeing serious changes.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-04-26 06:53pm

Fenreer wrote:
Fenreer wrote:My first post on this site is my Application To Join.

I'm Fenreer. Steve spent a good bit of time trying to recruit me here, but I was always putting it off in favor of doing this or that or the other thing. When I popped my head in awhile back, I'd seen the game had ended. Now, I see that it is returned. I want in.

I'm a moderately experienced forum gamer, though not in the single thread style, so it might take me a bit to get past the initial vertigo of dealing with threads reaching... 54 pages (!?!?), but I'll manage well enough.

For those of you familiar with the Ad Astra games over at a site(s) I won't name (not sure how this place looks on such things), I played a race called the Valatori with moderate competency (I'd like to think). Basically, Space Dwarves, though there was far more to them.

I'd like to take a second stab at the concept, so I'm asking for my random die rolls if I'm accepted in the game. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I take a second read-through of the rules.


Trying again. Looks like the mod-approval system places the post where it would have originally landed which meant it got buried.

Hi. Room for another?
Sure there's room. Your roll is a 9.

THIS thread, and similar OOC threads, aren't really important necessarily. They're chatter threads, for shooting the breeze about this, that, and the other thing. There are whole pages of random shit like mock duels between two of our more hotheaded and enthusiastic players.

The real meat is in the "Rules," "Map," "Diplomacy," and "Prologue" threads, which are more substantial and also a lot shorter.

Once I get the next draft of the map done you might want to think about placement.

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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Panzersharkcat » 2012-04-26 06:57pm

Skywalker_T-65 wrote:And raiding and pillaging or not, I don't see the SPACE VIKINGS providing that sort of extreme provocation. They are just a single sector after all, hardly a real threat. Besides, it gives whoever they raid a legitimate reason to keep their military around. :wink:

Maybe not the others. The Bastians may get themselves tangled in a war against them, what with their very low tolerance of pirates, and will probably willing to go it alone against them.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Crossroads Inc. » 2012-04-26 07:38pm

Vanas wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:Moving on... I wanted to ask about THE BEES for a moment. With all the groups around the UISC, I want to have a bit of 'History' with them, informal conversations and such so we are on at least speaking terms.

What would the BEES version of 'first contact' consist of where things get offical?


Pretty much the same thing it consists of when it's informal. Bees aren't very good with deal with social standing, formaility and informaility and all that.
Once their first contact gets past the 'series of prime numbers' and translation stages, it pretty much just goes 'Hello! How are you! We are Bees!' and things along those lines. One imagines it freaked the League out the first time.
That said, translating Bee language is pretty difficult. They've got a handle on Space English, but anything else will take a while.

ok thats awesome, I don't know why, but I suddenly have a vision of your BEES being English.
"I Say chap! Jolly good to see you sapient and intelligent there! How would you like to have some Honey? It's Bloody good"

My brain goes to weird places at times.
Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Also, considering the nature of the SPACE VIKINGS, most powers who have to deal with them (especially the more distant ones) will most likely dismiss them as just another pirate gang, certainly nothing to go to a war footing to deal with.

Exactly!

SPACE VIKINGS I see as a "Safe" way for various militaries to be kept on their toes, and for many of us to practice our Battle RP writing skills without worrying about full scale all out warfare.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-04-26 10:14pm

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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Fenreer » 2012-04-27 12:11am

While I'm still in the process of digging through these threads and doing my initial nation creation, I have a question that might be of interest to some of you gentlemen:

Using the military rules, how would you construct the Battlestar Galactica from the old series? Or even the new if that is the one you are most familiar. I'm something of a creature of habit, and one of those habits is utterly adoring the fan-made Galactica fleets created by Todd Boyce and adopted further by Steve Wilson and other artists at galacticafleets.

http://ravensbranch.allen.com/colonials ... tions.html

My challenge is to figure out the correct build for a battlestar and then scale things down from there for the rest of the fleet. That isn't too large a problem, but it never hurts to ask the guys who have already completed their own rosters how they'd construct that particular vessel.

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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Darkevilme » 2012-04-27 12:25am

A battlestar is X points of warship able to fight foes directly and Y points of fighters able to fight foes directly but independently of the battlestar. Therefore the ship costs X+Y points.

Battlestar Olympus: 300 points (200/100)
This ship is a 200 hundred point warship made of armour, big guns and stern looks which also carries a hundred fighters each worth 1 point each.

Taken from the rules http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?p=3659373#p3659373

edit addendum:
To repeat the important line regarding carriers:

Anything that contributes usefully to battle has a point value proportionate to its contribution, so long as it is risked in battle so that it can be shot back at.

So if your one hundred points of fighters hitch a ride inside a freighter's cargo hold they're still a hundred points. the freighter doesnt contribute to a battle and is worth no points. A battlestar can contribute usefully to the battle with the aforementioned big guns and armour and so is worth points.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-04-27 12:36am

Ahem.

I was ninjaed, but I want to say this with my modhat on. One thing: you don't have to say your battlestars are worth 300 points, even if Darkevilme used that number as an example. You can make them as strong or as weak as you please, although please consult with me before deciding on any ships of point value 1000 or higher. Now.

[puts on modhat]

The key thing to understand is that all combat effectiveness is measured in points. It doesn't matter what a ship is, so much as it matters how many points it's worth. A 200-point replica of the starship Enterprise beats a 100-point Imperial Star Destroyer clone, the basic versus debate premises of this website notwithstanding. It does not matter in the slightest how many megajoules your ships throw, or whether their hulls are made of steel, of biotech, or of reinforced unobtanium with force field backing. All that matters is the points.

Now.

Battlestar Galactica carries small fighters and shuttles that are potent in combat in their own right. But the ship herself is also effective in combat, and Galactica's presence on the field makes her side more likely to win. Therefore, an SDNW5 Galactica would be a "hybrid carrier/battleship." It will have an intrinsic point value that remains even if all the small craft it carries are gone. And it will have onboard some contingent of small craft with a certain point value, which it can carry into battle.

The small craft may be sublight "fighters" or FTL "gunboats," your choice. They will have a point value per unit, which it's up to you to determine, although I prefer not to assign point values of less than 0.5 to gunboats. The total number of fighters onboard is also up to you. I suggest deciding first "I want the ship to carry X points of small craft," then figuring out how many small craft you want and how many points they're worth from there.

In addition, of course, Galactica is a big honking gun platform with its own missiles and direct-fire weapons. The battlestar is a powerful and dangerous enemy even without its fighters, so having one around in a fight adds points to your side and thus increases the odds of a favorable outcome.

So you will say "Galactica is worth X points, and carries Y points of fighters." In your starting naval budget, you would have to allocate X+Y points to Galactica. The exact value of (X+Y) should be determined by how powerful and dangerous you want your battlestars to be, and how many of them you want and/or can afford. If you want battlestars to be relatively weak in the grand scheme of things, make them worth relatively fewer points. If you want them to be extremely dangerous and powerful, make them worth many points.

By way of advice, a combat force in the range of 400-500 points will be on roughly even terms with most nations' first-class battleships in single combat.

There.

[takes off modhat]

Incidentally, I anticipate that MKSheppard, our resident ruthless genocidal nukophile, will also be drawing inspiration from Battlestar Galactica, which doesn't mean you can't do the same. Also incidentally, my own fleet carriers bear uncanny resemblance to Cylon basestars, complete with swarms of AI drone fighters armed with nuclear tipped missiles, although the beam armament is different. :D


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