SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VII

[RogueIce]

Yeah, that's right, I went there. They're Rangers, and they wear powered armor.

[KlavoHunter]

Fuck You Youtube. Already some of the music in my posts has been deleted for retarded reasons.

[Shroom Man 777]

Yeah, that's right, I went there. They're Rangers, and they wear powered armor.

Assistant Secretary of State Aeris Gainsborough was meditating in the Park, sending her thoughts into the Lifestream.

Yes! Yes! JOYOUS DAYS! YES!!!

Does this mean that Sasha looks like-

[White Haven]

Naah. Poor Rita's always trying to conquer Earth. She'd make a better mascott for the MEHstomp coalition, come to think...

[RogueIce]

Assistant Secretary of State Aeris Gainsborough was meditating in the Park, sending her thoughts into the Lifestream.

Yes! Yes! JOYOUS DAYS! YES!!!

You do know that I've mentioned the Lifestream before, right?

Incidently, due to Downfall, they may not even be deployed now.

[Force Lord]

A little view on how the Centrality fights a ground war.

Also, the DEATH Ball strikes!

[Dark Hellion]

... Bleh, so I can't have a 'raid' on Your Anus, then? I just want to plant a bunch of mines to cut off the gate temporarily. It can be earlier on, not doing much damage, just slowing force redistributions down to give the fleets time to set up.

You can let the mines drift towards Your Anus. Drop them from far away and such.

Shroom's idea seems pretty good. If you dropped some mines some distance away and let them passively drift they could easily go unnoticed by both Emissary and MEHN forces given all the other sensor activity in the system. And as part of the OMINOUS forces the Refuge have free access to the Emissary Exclusion Zones so there is no problems with interception of your ships. And having the Uranus (I refuse to use CN's childish renaming) fleet cleaning up all these mines could help explain the lack of response to my upcoming Pluto engagement.

Does that sound good to you?

[Simon_Jester]

[wakes up]

[reads posts by Klavo, Darkevilme, Fin and Shroom]

[modhat on]

OK, clearly the situation has developed quite a bit. Some of these developments I saw coming, others I did not. Let me see if I understand the stated intentions of various fleets, because I need a coherent picture of what's going on in case I need to do any modhat stuff.

-The Chamarrans and Klavostanis, upset at the mass destruction of Byzantines and deeply disturbed by the opening of the Eye of Sashaterror, have jointly agreed to pursue the Byzantine fleet and demand a reckoning.

-The Byzantines have decided to run for it, and apparently have no intention of accounting for what happened on MEH Earth to anyone.



This I had foreseen. What I had not foreseen:

-The Haruhiists have gotten word of this, and passed it on to the Byzantines.

-The Haruhiists are escorting their fleet now; my last information from Shinn was that this would not happen, but it is now, apparently.

-The Cevaukians are doing... something, moving one of their fleets... somewhere. I have no actual problem with this, but want to lay down a ground rule because of it, see below.



Now, a couple of mod statements.

1) Because the Cevaukians aren't actually being played by anyone directly, I'm going to set the following rule.

Before they can actually do anything to seriously affect the outcome of any battles or campaigns that may occur, it must be made clear well in advance what they are doing. They are not simply free reinforcements to be pulled out of a hat to save a difficult situation.

Anyone who remembers Force Lord's antics in the Outback before he was convinced to pull in his horns, you know what I mean by that.

So if the Byzantines and/or Haruhiists are in a sticky situation in, oh... (picks a likely-looking sector at random) Sector G-30, a Cevaukian fleet can't come roaring out of hyperspace to save them unless it's been specified well beforehand that the Cevaukian fleet in question is in the vicinity, and large enough to actually affect the outcome.

2) What route, exactly, do the Byzantines and Haruhiists intend to take to escape interception?

Aurelian's analysis is spot-on; it's very dangerous for them to try to escape near Chamarran space, because the Chamarrans have... I don't know, 15-20 thousand points chasing them from the 'left' and another 15-20 thousand points available to head them off in their home territory; they risk getting nutcrackered between the two fleets.

Since the Klavostanis are in on this too, escape routes "up and to the right" on the map are pretty much out of the question- same problem.

So which way are they going?

[Shroom Man 777]

I would like the moderator to take into consideration also the various space-time and perhaps sensory anomalies that may occur as a result of an entire solar system being devoured by a non-standard interdimensional event.

[Simon_Jester]

[Modhat on]

Yes. Yes I will. Navigation around the Eye of Sashaterror is going to be difficult and slow- comparable to very difficult shoal conditions. The fastest routes are those which lead away from the eye*.

Navigation conditions a sector-width or more away from the Eye are approximately normal, at least for the time being, and bearing in mind that other people are actively planning steps to contain the spread of the anomaly.
________________

*Centralist fleets in particular may receive some... special treatment.

KIEERRRGGGYYYY...

Well, that's a joke, but we can roll with it if it's fun and people want.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

And by the way, we aren't travelling in a straight line. Good luck trying to pinpoint our location across the span of at least 2 or more sectors.

[Simon_Jester]

It's certainly a significant challenge for reconnaissance assets, although not an insurmountable one if enough assets are thrown into the task. This is one of the things that national navies are for- fighting deep-space fleet battles against a large opponent, tracking large fleets so that they can't steal a march on you and punch into your space from unexpected directions, and so on.

So it's a challenge for both sides.

Also, bear in mind that at least some of the Byzantine and Haruhiist ships likely have drive damage which slightly reduces their speed in hyperspace, given how close they were to ground zero of the Eye anomaly.

The same will be true of other fleets which got engaged in the major battles of the MEH war, including Klavostani and Chamarran ships- if they take their whole fleet to chase you, they won't be moving any faster than you.

But drive damage won't be a problem from the Chamarran or Klavostani home fleets, unless of course you decide to stop and shoot some holes in them.

[Darkevilme]

And lets not forget that the Chamarran's have been shooting missiles ideally at the rear of the Byzantine ships for the entire running of the Byzantines out of Sol. This definitely affects realspace velocity but might also screw with the FTL speed of some of their ships as usually the FTL engine ends up near the realspace engine due to both being things requiring massive amounts of energy from the same sources.

I say ideally though cause we were firing missiles in emission seeking mode, cause Byzantine battlebanner ships probably have one hell of an exhaust trail at flank speed.

[Shroom Man 777]

By that logic though, shield generators and weapons systems - also huge power hogs - would be located nearby too.

And due to the nature of how they work, FTL engines and realspace engines will be seldom used a the same time - unlike weapons/shields/STL engines. So there's actually a better case for shields and STL engines and weapons to be closer together than STL engines and FTL engines.

[Simon_Jester]

Don't worry, Shroomy, I want to cover this.

And lets not forget that the Chamarran's have been shooting missiles ideally at the rear of the Byzantine ships for the entire running of the Byzantines out of Sol. This definitely affects realspace velocity but might also screw with the FTL speed of some of their ships as usually the FTL engine ends up near the realspace engine due to both being things requiring massive amounts of energy from the same sources.

I say ideally though cause we were firing missiles in emission seeking mode, cause Byzantine battlebanner ships probably have one hell of an exhaust trail at flank speed.

True, but in mitigation, it's going to be hard to fly a missile up the exhaust plume of a mountain-sized space battleship.

More generally...

[modhat on]

Regardless of the exact reasons why you can't do it, I'm going to rule that you typically don't get to decide which parts of the ships are damaged by thermonuclear warheads.

Not under combat conditions against ships capable of fighting back. So whatever Byzantine ships were damaged by Chamarran missile fire, their damage will be distributed across a variety of systems and target areas, rather than being uniformly concentrated on the engines.

I recognize that you were targeting their engines as best you could, and this may have some effect, skewing the distribution of damage to hurt engines more, and things like gun batteries less. But this will still only cause limited levels of damage across the fleet as a whole, and far from all of it will be concentrated on the engines.

[White Haven]

The Byzantines and Haruhiists are running from the same starting point as their pursuers, through the same navigational conditions as their pursuers, with very large ships to somewhat hamper fleet speed, as well as Eye of Sasha-induced drive damage. The pursuit fleets have correspondingly-large ships, so that much cancels out, and they may have some drive damage, but nothing to compare to fleet units that were right on top of the forming Eye and that have been under semi-targeted missile bombardment against drive systems. Not one but both of the nations currently in pursuit have stealth ships in the area, many of them in Klavostan's case, and their main fleet units lack corresponding drive damage. The fleets involved are bloody massive, which is going to produce a correspondingly-titanic hyperspace wake. Far from having an easy time of losing pursuit, Fin, you have essentially no head start on an interstellar scale, you're going to be on average slightly slower than your pursuers, they have the area laced with stealthy recon platforms, and a fleet that large stands out like a sore thumb. It's going to take some serious wizardry to lose pursuit, IMO.

[Shroom Man 777]

The MEH area, maybe. But as far as I know, there aren't any stealthers in the off-map region. And when the Eye happened, did people instantly go "tail those ships!" to their stealth ships who were previously doing... other stuff?

I don't believe people will suddenly become super-organized to decide to chase the Byzantine and Haruhiist fleet, when they were previously so disorganized that one of the coalitions didn't even know it was going to invade Sol until mere days/hours before the fact?

Not to mention.

These posts:

(( Post-Downfall Continuity ))

RED-LINE EMERGENCY ENCRYPTED COMM CHANNEL
FROM: The Sultanate of Klavostan
TO: The Chamarran Hierarchy

The acts of the Byzantine Imperium in the MEH Sol System are all too plain to see, as has been the reaction of your senior fleet commanders. We believe both our nations have a common desire to bring the Byzantines to account for their crimes. What say you, Queen Kara Kithandra?

- Sultan Klavo C

To: The Sultanate of Klavostan
From: The Chamarran Hierarchy

We are as appalled by the Byzantine misdeeds as you are. In the spirit of maintaining the stability of our region of space against those who would import their own medieval barbarity we agree to make common cause with you on this matter. I have attached frequencies and encryption patterns for contacting the battlegroups.

-Her Majesty Kara Kithandra.

As specified in bright red letters, happened Post-Downfall.

So this post:

The running of the Byzantines, MEH Sol

“Another Byzantine vessel lost acceleration battlemistress, however retained velocity ensures its survival.” The battle was drawing to a close with final reports like this, although battle was perhaps too strong a word for this turkey shoot as the Byzantines had not retaliated despite the loss of several ships from their force.

Melusine nodded acknowledgement “Still, we've bloodied their nose good and proper.” she said and then asked“Are all ships reporting ready for the jump to Xena?”

“All ships report ready.”

“Commence jump sequence.”
“Priority one message incoming battlemistress. Text only.”

“Very well, on my viewer.” Melusine said and then went silent, ears twitching as she contemplated the words.

“Contact all battlemistresses. We are changing our destination.”

Code: Select all

To: 1st Battlemistress Melusine.
From: Her Majesty Queen Kara.

The Byzantine imperium have attempted to besmirch the good name of our actions against the MEH, conducted myriad atrocities in our corner of space  and created a wound in reality with unknown ramifications on our doorstep. We are in agreement with the Sultan that these deeds cannot go without a reckoning. You are ordered to meet up with a Klavostani force moving out of Alpha Centauri and make common cause in pursuit of the Byzantine fleet and force them out of hyperspace.

Kara

Has chronological issues.

Unless the formation of the Eye caused space-time to bend, so the Chamarran fleets in Sol during Downfall received orders from Queen Kithandra that were devised when she communicated with the Klavostanis after Downfall.

[Simon_Jester]

Splitting up. Interesting choice of tactics, Fin. Good EMCON you've got there, I'll say that, and that's a point in your favor.

The MEH area, maybe. But as far as I know, there aren't any stealthers in the off-map region. And when the Eye happened, did people instantly go "tail those ships!" to their stealth ships who were previously doing... other stuff?

I don't believe people will suddenly become super-organized to decide to chase the Byzantine and Haruhiist fleet, when they were previously so disorganized that one of the coalitions didn't even know it was going to invade Sol until mere days/hours before the fact?

To be fair, the Chamarrans make up at least half of the pursuit, and they're part of the well-organized OMINOUS coalition, not the badly organized human coalition.

So this post...

Unless the formation of the Eye caused space-time to bend, so the Chamarran fleets in Sol during Downfall received orders from Queen Kithandra that were devised when she communicated with the Klavostanis after Downfall.

A point. This must be resolved.

[Shroom Man 777]

You have to factor the events of Sol getting to the leaders of the nations, the leaders of Chamarra and Klavostan communicating, mulling it over, replying, passing this info down, redeploying stealthers or warships to tail or chase, these same stealthers or warships stopping what they were doing to refocus and relocate to their new tasks, both nations rendezvousing their forces as specified, their leaders or commanders or admirals meeting and scheming and drafting plans, their stealthers trying to tail the Dual Empire Fleet (because I don't think the stealthers would automatically go "follow that fleet!" immediately during/after Sol), etcetera.

Yes, the Dual Empire Fleet isn't going to be that fast by virtue of being a huge ass fleet with some damaged ships, and they are a huge ass fleet. But even in this situation, even the goddamn Batman won't have that much time to do his prep-time.

[Simon_Jester]

Duly noted, Shroom.

The Byzantines and Haruhiists will have a head start. It's just a question of how large the head start is, compared to how far they need to move and what their pursuers do. An hour? Two hours? Three? Six? Twelve?

As yet, I'm not sure, and I need to wait on information about what the pursuers are actually planning to do and how they go about it before I can try to weigh in on that.

[Shroom Man 777]

It depends on how superfast the Chamarrans and Klavostanis organize their game and redeploy their forces.

It still seems odd to me that they immediately go from "holy shit the whole solar system just disappeared in an event never before seen... ever" to instantly "get the Byzantines! after them!" and immediately springing into a coordinated hunting party to chase them down.

[Simon_Jester]

They would already have been eyeing the Byzantines suspiciously and nervously in light of various genocidal behavior.

And there's a strong component of "they were around MEH Earth so they must be responsible for what happened." Which isn't true, but unless the Byzantines actually stop to explain and provide an account of what's happened, no one else knows that.

[Simon_Jester]

Ahem.

[modhat on]

OK, I want to propose that everyone take a breath and that we try to work out an amicable (out of character) resolution to this. I don't really want a massively adversarial situation, after all.

I don't know exactly what form a resolution would take. Realistically, it would be very very hard for all of the Imperial ships to escape capture; in my opinion it would be very hard for even most of them to escape capture, since they have such a long way to go. And the Imperium (less so the Haruhiists) has a lot of nations pissed off in-character, whatever their own leaders may say about it all having been necessary and everyone else being a spineless weakling idiot.

On the flip side, the pursuers here don't actually have a good reason to attack the Byzantines and try to destroy their fleet. Then again, I don't think they've really threatened to- what they want is a reckoning and an accounting for the Byzantines' actions, and an explanation of what the hell happened at MEH Sol, not a big war.

There is room for a peaceful resolution here, or at least a mutually acceptable resolution that the players can take without anyone rage-quitting or getting away with IC murder without repercussions.

I would like to see that, but to make it happen, both sides need to be willing and able to extend an olive branch on the whole issue.

What do you say, guys? Fin? Darkevilme? Klavo?

[Force Lord]

"You are entering/leaving the Centralist Zone" will be seen for years to come....

[Siege]

I'm usually not much for soundtracks but this came on the radio just now, and it seems doubly fitting:

People keep on learnin'
Soldiers keep on warrin'
World keep on turnin'
Cause it won't be too long
Powers keep on lyin'
While your people keep on dyin'
World keep on turnin'
Cause it won't be too long
I'm so darn glad he let me try it again
Cause my last time on earth I lived a whole world of sin
I'm so glad that I know more than I knew then
Gonna keep on tryin'
Till I reach the highest ground

EDIT: PS: For the record, I echo Simon's call for a reasoned, interesting, well-written resolution to this sorry affair. Fin, please think it over before responding in a heated fashion. Everybody else, kindly do the same. Or I'll have to yell some more in all the obvious places, and I'm wearing out this keyboard as it is.