SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-19 03:25am

Formless wrote:
Anyway, all that other stuff you wrote would be all nice and good except for this line:

Downfall wrote:Ever since the start of the war the empress had been a psychic star on the far horizon, ever-present and undiminished.

This is what I have a problem with. Whatever power she had before now should not have been psychic in nature, even if there is a workaround to allow her to become psychic by sacrificing espers or whatever. That's the ret-con.


Eh, who knows. Some psykers can see into the future or sense important shit happening. She doesn't have to be an esper for them to look at her and see the paths of possibilities and realities converging into a fulcrum of fate, a nexus of potentials and abstractions where only the resolution of all that was and is can weave the thread of destiny in a blinding image washing over the ethereal senses of Pseudosigilite Scutum Excelsoriuseus or some other pseudophilisophical hullabaloo. The fact that she is crucial to galaxy-changing future events would make her stick out to sensitive-enough precognitives (like how these guys always seem to spot important people like Chosen Ones and stuff) anyway.

Psychic or not psychic, she ascended into godhood through various means (including the ritualistic sacrifice of psykers).

Besides, the war began like a week ago. The first shots were fired at June 1, the current stardate (or whatever) is June ??. She began experimenting on psykers months ago, and who knows when she began her sacrifices. She had plenty of time to set up her machines and sacrifice psykers and make herself visible as a psychic star to whoever.



All I'm saying is, her not/being a psyker is immaterial for these events to happen. That some others mentioned that she is psychic (someone actually put her in the wiki's list of psykers) is not a make or break thing. Heck, CN wanted her to have 50 points of weirdo (non-psychic) powers.

So be that as it may, the show goes on.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Ryan Thunder » 2011-08-19 03:28am

Formless wrote:This is what I have a problem with. Whatever power she had before now should not have been psychic in nature, even if there is a workaround to allow her to become psychic by sacrificing espers or whatever. That's the ret-con.

So you're hyperventilating over semantics.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Siege » 2011-08-19 04:09am

Oh deary me, we seem to have offended the guy who's not even posted a single thing about his Stegosaurusy or indeed anything else at all. Well, sir, I hesitate (not really) to inform you that I haven't got the foggiest idea who you are and why I should pay attention to your opinion, so kindly get back to me when you can voice it in such a way that I don't have to distill your point from paragraphs of frothing rage!
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2011-08-19 05:03am

Siege wrote:Oh deary me, we seem to have offended the guy who's not even posted a single thing about his Stegosaurusy or indeed anything else at all. Well, sir, I hesitate (not really) to inform you that I haven't got the foggiest idea who you are and why I should pay attention to your opinion, so kindly get back to me when you can voice it in such a way that I don't have to distill your point from paragraphs of frothing rage!

More like, I was wondering why the fuck anyone with no stake in the game would even open his damn mouth and word off such a long post. :lol:
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Darkevilme » 2011-08-19 08:51am

As well written as Downfall is. There are a lot of plotholes in it regarding the whole making it a one horse show among other things. I'll list them by nation.

Chamarran Hierarchy: Why the hell would the Hierarchy let Byzantines have first crack at the planet considering their track record in Xena and the Hierarchy's desire to minimize international outcry from this war? Or did the Byzantines decide to have the spirit of inter nation cooperation taken out and shot for unfaithfulness by making the run unannounced when everyone in Ominous is too busy shooting MEHnoids.

The Eoghans and Atlanteans: These guys were already in the system. I can't speak for what their reaction is but they get one.

Ascendancy: These guys were running to the relief of the Eoghans and will get there first, again reactions.

Centrality and other nations: The Centrality along with a grab bag of friends will arrive a bit before Ominous does due to a hyperspace lane(Though after the Ascendancy). The Centrality also believe they have first dibs on Sasha so might do something when the Byzantines break off from Ominous.
Also needless to say their entire force if Downfall remains canon just watched the Byzantines gleefully bombarding a planet outside the K-zone. So whatever the actual force does is almost certainly gonna dwindle into insignificance compared to the political results later.

The MEH: Why beyond lazy plot convenience to write every nation not bearing an Aquila out of the situation would the great majority of battlefleet Sol NOT be protecting Earth-4 where their goddess is when they have been characterized as fanatically loyal to her?
Hell it doesn't even make much sense from a 'this was all a plan to create the EOT' as surely if they die over Earth-4 that'd be either irrelevant or an actual benefit to the whole blood sacrifice thing. Also battlefleet sol wasn't gonna stop the coalitions and this was known by Sasha so again why beyond conveniently writing the other nations out of the fall of earth would battlefleet Sol not be over Earth-4.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby KhorneFlakes » 2011-08-19 09:03am

Downfall's beginning reminded me of this:



Edit: also, I'm going to be writing a thing about the Taiidan condemming the Byzantines for this. It makes sense - my established backstory, after all, had the Taiidan Republicans performing orbital bombardment on a lot of the Imperial Taiidan planets. Little reminder: Billions of Taiidani died.

It's not a wonder the old Taiidan Empire fractured, and why the modern Taiidan Empire's populace and it's government despise the Republicans.

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-08-19 09:24am

Darkevilme has a point that I honestly don't know how to address. I think that needs to be hashed out between players a little more, without posturing or anything like that.

Siege wrote:We realized from the onset we were going to be ignoring the wishes of a lot of people. This is truly unfortunate but considering the number of different interests involved we believed it to be impossible (or at least unreasonable) to consult everyone, much less weave a story that would take all of these interests into account in a single engaging narrative, and get it out in time.

To be as accomodating as possible we neglected to mention the particulars of the space battle, and didn't make any references to any characters anybody else might be invested it, so as to leave people free to make up whatever they wish in those regards. And of course everyone is completely free to react to the way the Imperials handled the situation.
Well, let's give it some time and see what develops. Your stuff (the various powerful beings contacting Sasha and so on) was building up to this anyway. I don't really mind it, as such. I just think we need to take some time to view your... you called it a 'strong suggestion' through the lens of what other people would be doing under the circumstances.

Formless wrote:It stands to reason that if Sasha is a psycher, CN's whole motive for getting his hands on psychers falls apart. There are tons of possibilities that make far more sense. Say, for instance, that she is what CN made her out to be? You know, a tyrannical dictator who likes to claim she is a god * that people all but worship? Ignoring that fact is piss poor writing even if it is stylish, and introduces a bad precedent because its contradicting what a player of this game (munchkin he may be) wrote about his nation. Observe.
You weren't here at the time, but CN did present Sasha as a being of enormous power of some kind- if not psychic, then something that's letting her break the rules in a different way. There was one point at which he wanted to give her ground combat potential equal to, oh, some ungodly number. Eighty points I think.

So quit jumping up and down and wailing about it.

As to the objection that the MEH is being presented unfaithfully to CN's wishes, I can sorta understand, but to be honest CN abdicated creative control of his nation a long time ago after people got pissed off at him for being a dickhead and trying to game the rules. Since then, the MEH evolved into a one-dimensional parody, and the current writing is actually an improvement over the parody in some respects because it shows more complexity and actual effort put into protecting the MEH than CN ever put in.

His efforts were more concentrated on bitching in the OOC thread about things he didn't like and trying hamhanded ploys to manipulate game rules to his advantage.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Ryan Thunder » 2011-08-19 09:27am

Darkevilme wrote:As well written as Downfall is. There are a lot of plotholes in it regarding the whole making it a one horse show among other things. I'll list them by nation.

Chamarran Hierarchy: Why the hell would the Hierarchy let Byzantines have first crack at the planet considering their track record in Xena and the Hierarchy's desire to minimize international outcry from this war?

The ISU as well. Even if this does stand, when all is said and done, the Brags and the Byzantines will not be welcome anywhere near our space and will be actively attacked upon detection without prior warning given.

Also needless to say their entire force if Downfall remains canon just watched the Byzantines gleefully bombarding a planet outside the K-zone. So whatever the actual force does is almost certainly gonna dwindle into insignificance compared to the political results later.

The MEH: Why beyond lazy plot convenience to write every nation not bearing an Aquila out of the situation would the great majority of battlefleet Sol NOT be protecting Earth-4 where their goddess is when they have been characterized as fanatically loyal to her?
Hell it doesn't even make much sense from a 'this was all a plan to create the EOT' as surely if they die over Earth-4 that'd be either irrelevant or an actual benefit to the whole blood sacrifice thing. Also battlefleet sol wasn't gonna stop the coalitions and this was known by Sasha so again why beyond conveniently writing the other nations out of the fall of earth would battlefleet Sol not be over Earth-4.

So that Fin can show up and immediately start dropping habitats on things, obviously. Because that's such a wonderful precedent to set. :|
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Siege » 2011-08-19 09:33am

Whilst I do not deny there are many issues to be worked out, broadly our idea with respect to the fleet battle was as follows:

The Eoghans and Atlanteans were already present in-system, harrying MEH forces but refusing to decisively engage. Their Centralite and Ascendant allies arrive, and move to reinforce them (possibly joined by the Klavostanis, ISU, Shinrans etc.) They then jointly begin hammering Battlefleet Sol. A proper fleet battle begins to develop at this point and even though it's obvious who's going to win it, it'll still take some time to sort it out. Now, it is only after Battlefleet Sol has engaged that Bragulan and Imperial flotillas drop out of hyper and make a beeline for Earth. The Bragulans then remain behind to run political interference for the Imperials*, creating a distinct impression that to hurry after the Imperial armada might mean having to engage and defeat two Bragulan kosmoflots first, which with Battlefleet Sol not yet defeated in detail might not be the best of ideas. To make matters worse the Imperials throw up a minefield, ostensibly 'to prevent the MEH from retreating' but of course in reality it's just so they can have free reign of the place for a short while at least.

We did not have any specific ideas about the fleets of the Xylyx, Chamarrans and Refuge because, frankly, we were not sure about their motivations, and so couldn't be sure how to factor them in one way or another.

I want to stress that whilst our assumptions were made the way they were to service the plot we had in mind, they were most assuredly not solely "lazy plot convenience". In fact Shroom wrote up quite a number of paragraphs about the defeat of Battlefleet Sol by the coalition armada which we ended up scrapping from his post here because we felt they constituted taking control of other player-assets, which can't be justified in a game like this. We furthermore couldn't be sure if somebody wasn't writing a Zebes-style massive fleet battle somewhere, and didn't want to get in the way of that.

Now, like I said, we were quite liberal in our assumptions, and there are issues to be worked out, and certainly there are going to be political repercussions to what the Imperium did or at least I imagine there will be. This is all perfectly fine and fair, and like I said right at the top of the Downfall post, we'll be happy to work with y'all to sort the matter out to what I'm confident will be our mutual satisfaction.


* For those wondering why they would do this: from a Brag point of view, letting the Imperials bleed themselves on Earth's orbital defences whilst they get to sit back and look menacing is a pretty good deal. They get to be on the winning side and if everything goes according to plan they don't even have to fire a shot for it.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby White Haven » 2011-08-19 09:46am

In the mean time, I recommend people tag posts made with regards to Downfall as Downfall-contingent, thus if it's finally ruled against they can all be snipped to non-canon at once rather than trying to figure out after the fact what was and wasn't tied into Downfall. That way people can get moving on reactions without having to worry about whether they're polluting the timeline or some such frippery.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby KhorneFlakes » 2011-08-19 10:01am

White Haven wrote:In the mean time, I recommend people tag posts made with regards to Downfall as Downfall-contingent, thus if it's finally ruled against they can all be snipped to non-canon at once rather than trying to figure out after the fact what was and wasn't tied into Downfall. That way people can get moving on reactions without having to worry about whether they're polluting the timeline or some such frippery.


Good idea. I'll tag the Taiidan condemnation thing for that, and just a thing:

You know, if Downfall remains canon...what happens now, as Chaos or a Chaos equivalent has arrived in the SDNW4 universe?

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-19 10:16am

Deleted scenes from the Battle of Sol (I chose not to include them for reasons Siege outlined):

I would have wrote:They charged head on and fought to the last man and machine, their Slaughter Devices blazing away with mighty turbolasers until they in turn were slaughtered by coalition dreadnoughts and pounded into oblivion. The MEHN’s greatest ships were, ironically, the first to fall as their jamming systems and still-formidable firepower made them priority targets. After them, the coalition focused its wrath on the lesser ships, but despite the decimation of their flagship and the death of their admiral, the sailors and spacers of the MEHN fought on.

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss30 ... y_1965.jpg

Such was their desperation that after expending their ammunition, and having their motherships destroyed by coalition fire, the MEHN’s fighters and bombers simply hurled themselves at their enemies in kamikaze runs - using their own fuselages as projectiles. Following their example, megacorvettes and cruisers likewise went in close to the coalition warships, entangling themselves in slugging matches with their opposites at point-blank range, where enemy bombardment ships could not strike at them from afar in fear of hitting their own ally ships.

No quarter was asked, and none was spared. For the MEHN, their last hour was also their finest, and with a ferocity unequaled and unerring alacrity, they wrestled with the much larger coalition fleets and held on until the last moment. In comparison, with so many warships from so many nations at hand, with human-coalition and OMINOUS armadas struggling to inter-operate and cooperate, the alliance fleet made a much more disorganized and poorly-coordinated showing.

Yet the disparity in force and strength could not be overcome with guile and ferocity. The coalition armadas simply hammered the defenders of Sol into submission, into oblivion. Albeit with imprecise strikes, unbalanced fleet movements, much hesitation on part of those who wished to avoid friendly-fire, and uncertainty of the trustworthiness of their new allies to the point of deploying forces to watch over and even defend against potential treachery from their confederates. Eventually, the last ships of the MEHN burned, but in a final act of spite, these vessels engaged their stellar drives, emergency engines and Heim generators and threw themselves at their killers. The hyperwaves were filled with the last words of captains and crews, praying to their Goddess, before the remaining MEHN ships buried their prows into the nearest coalition vessels and detonated in blinding hypermatter explosions.


Other mitigating circumstances of the battle:

The Centralists promised to the Chamarrans (and the rest of OMINOUS) not to bring anyone else to Sol. They broke their promise, and other humans went to Sol. In light of this, how would the Chamarrans react to the lying Centralists, and the presence of other navies that might threaten the Chamarran's own plan to keep Sol for themselves?

Were the other OMINOUS nations even informed that the Centralists and other humans would be there? Eoghans and Nova-Atlanteans are not exactly on good terms with the Centrality, and how a Centralist fleet appears out of nowhere?

The Tianguonese are xenophobes. The inhumans in OMINOUS won't like that.

The Xylyx may come. Who knows what they'd do in Sol, but yeah. (Also, the Tianguonese hate them)

Even before the war, the OMINOUS already planned to invade Sol after Xena and thus were prepared for that. In comparison, the SHITS' original plan (as per Rouge, and as per the Pellaeon Heart Attack posts) was to occupy Alpha Centauri and Wolf only, which was agreed with the Chamarrans. So while the OMINOUS had planned the Sol attack months ago, the SHITS had only devised their plan to invade Sol days ago. Previously, they had no idea they were even going to Sol.

As such, after the post-battle logistics in Xena (very close to Chamarran space), the OMINOUS was already hot to go to Sol. Comparatively, the SHITS didn't even know they were going to Sol until the last minute, with lots of haphazard politicking and impromptu back-dealing on part of the various leaders of the various factions.


ADDENDUM

The whole point is that while everyone is bickering on the who and the what and arguing with each other and fighting the Sol Fleet and watching at each other, because now nobody can trust each other (which tends to happen when you go back on your word and bring unexpected battle fleets) and such, Byzantium bypasses the entire space battle and makes a beeline for Earth while dropping minefields and such.

Bragule will try to stall the others, possibly by screaming a lot of outrage at the imperialistic human shits coming to Sol with the intention of wreaking unmentionable destruction at the poor peoples of the MEH who have suffered enough ( :P ) and so on and so forth, while also relying on everyone else's mutual distrust and hate to slow everyone down.

Certain factions, like the Tianguo or the Refuge or Eoghans just fresh from shooting down civilian ships trying to flee to Sol's warpgate to escape (a true act of heroism, my mongoose comrades!) might also be fine with Earth, and Sasha, totally torched.

I'd also imagine that after Earth goes down the drain, a whole lot of people would be confused as hell as to what's happened, while also trying to run for their lives away from the growing abomination within the system and such, and immediately wouldn't exactly know what the hell is going on at that moment. Would anyone have time to scream at Byzantium (or much less chase their fleet down) then when, at that very moment, dimensional beasties are screaming void-chilling blasphemies and threatening to eat everyone there?


ALSO

Byzantium is not part of the OMINOUS nor the SHITS. Like the Ascendants, it may not have hypered out to Sol at the same time as the rest of OMINOUS. There is no reason why they couldn't have just flown out first.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby KhorneFlakes » 2011-08-19 10:52am

Thanks for explaining that, Shroom. I think I understand the intentions of the post now.

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-19 11:06am

Another thing, because we were talking about pulp Chinese fiction stereotypes like ghosts and ancestor worship and footbinding with Beowulf:

Formless wrote:
Anyway, all that other stuff you wrote would be all nice and good except for this line:

Downfall wrote:Ever since the start of the war the empress had been a psychic star on the far horizon, ever-present and undiminished.

This is what I have a problem with. Whatever power she had before now should not have been psychic in nature, even if there is a workaround to allow her to become psychic by sacrificing espers or whatever. That's the ret-con.


If it had been a Tianguonese moshushi, to his mystic perspective the Goddess would've been a star of discordant chi emanating from misaligned leylines of a solar system whose planets were not properly arranged in a way harmonious to Confucianist Feng Shui.

Then later some pedantic dude would shriek that Sasha doesn't practice Feng Shui or tai chi and how that would be a retcon. :P

But CN left out whether or not Sasha practiced footbinding!
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-08-19 11:24am

If the Byzantines had flown out first, it's more likely that the MEH mobile fleet in Sol system would have intercepted them successfully. They could handle that, they've got the firepower, but they'd take a beating on the way in. My impression is that they didn't do that- they went in along with other fleets that engaged the MEH mobile fleet, making it impractical for them to stop the Byzantines.

You can do that kind of thing when you outnumber the enemy four or five to one- just pile an overwhelming force on him in one place to keep him from moving, then drop another overwhelming force somewhere else.

I don't actually have a problem with the (for lack of a better term) "OMINOUS battle plan" involving the OMINOUS fleet attacking Sol and the Byzantines making a beeline for Earth with most (if not all) of their available forces. Nor do I have a problem with the idea that the OMINOUS fleet shows up before the human fleet, since there is plenty of material to justify the idea that OMINOUS was planning their offensive much farther back than the humans were. It also has a certain consistency- humans take two MEH systems, OMINOUS takes two systems.

What I do want to make clear is that other people will have their own ideas about what will happen. That may require some modification or clarification of the events surrounding this big post- what are the Centralists, the Chamarrans, and so on, doing? I don't think that can be resolved without a lot of discussion, but as long as everyone proceeds in good faith I don't think there will be too much of a problem.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-19 11:37am

Simon_Jester wrote:If the Byzantines had flown out first, it's more likely that the MEH mobile fleet in Sol system would have intercepted them successfully. They could handle that, they've got the firepower, but they'd take a beating on the way in. My impression is that they didn't do that- they went in along with other fleets that engaged the MEH mobile fleet, making it impractical for them to stop the Byzantines.


They could've arrived at Sol after the Ascendants but before the OMINOUS, sat around and chilled for a while while Rus made fun of the Tau in the Nova-Atlantean fleet (a missed opportunity!), waiting for the OMINOUS ENEMA SHITS to arrive and crushinate the Sol fleet, the Byzantines could've made their mad dash.

But it's no different from:

"They all arrived together and while everyone crushed the Sol fleet, the Byzantines sneaked ahead."

What I do want to make clear is that other people will have their own ideas about what will happen.


This is a fair point. Did anyone else have a clear idea of exactly what was going to happen in Sol (aside from pew-pew, fatties explode)? Before we came up with the whole Eye thing, I had no exact idea of what the Brags were gonna do myself.

Nor do I have a problem with the idea that the OMINOUS fleet shows up before the human fleet, since there is plenty of material to justify the idea that OMINOUS was planning their offensive much farther back than the humans were. It also has a certain consistency- humans take two MEH systems, OMINOUS takes two systems.


:)
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2011-08-19 11:40am

The Byzantines and the Brags agreed that Byzantium would do the planetary assault while the Brags kept their allies away. That was the plan from the start, and hinted in the Rus-Bragnetsov meeting.

Also, there's always the option of entering the Sol System from the bottom or top orthogonal to the planetary plane. So everyone is busy with engaging the enemy along the planetary plane, we instead dive in from the top.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-08-19 11:43am

Again, as long as other forces are available to draw off the defenders, getting your own fleet through will probably be possible.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-19 11:45am

The basic Bragulan plan is "let the Byzantines do the world-wrecking for us, we honor our deal with the Chamarrans in that we don't do any overly horrible stuff, and the humans end up looking terrible". :D

Also, Panic Node's physical core is probably going to jump out of a window because of this. Despite being an immobile and inanimate CPU. While spontaneously catching fire.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby White Haven » 2011-08-19 11:56am

He can land in Deep Purple's Existential Threat Monitoring Directorate, which will be in the throes of a Full Dress Panic at the time. :D
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Formless » 2011-08-19 12:35pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Siege wrote:Oh deary me, we seem to have offended the guy who's not even posted a single thing about his Stegosaurusy or indeed anything else at all. Well, sir, I hesitate (not really) to inform you that I haven't got the foggiest idea who you are and why I should pay attention to your opinion, so kindly get back to me when you can voice it in such a way that I don't have to distill your point from paragraphs of frothing rage!

More like, I was wondering why the fuck anyone with no stake in the game would even open his damn mouth and word off such a long post. :lol:

Let me tell you something: I still don't give a flying fuck, and I can and will call in the moderators (the REAL ones, you know, Thanas or Lagmonster) if you do not stop with this ad hominim bullshit every time someone new to the game or low on story posts criticizes you. DEAL WITH THE FUCKING CRITICISM, OR STFU. Your attitudes stink like dog turds, and are not acceptable just because this is one of the less than serious forums. And yes, there are answers to my criticisms. Neither of you have even bothered.

Its also inappropriate from a game context for the following reason. I was strongly suggested to use the OOC thread a little before posting in the story thread. To get a feel for the game and the people playing it. To discuss the game in good faith, as I had even before joining the game. So far? Unimpressed. You two are the biggest dickwads in this game, routinely post here in bad faith, and I think its time someone told you that. Bullshit like this is as stupid as saying that a film critic needs to have directed two successful films before they can be taken seriously, or that a book critic needs to have at least one trilogy published under their name before they deserve to be read. Worse, even, because this is an interactive story and your attitude is the single biggest obstacle to participating.

Lastly, I already promised elsewhere that I would post but NOT before the MEH-stomp is over. I have yet to change my mind on that.

And if I hear any more whining about how I'm being "That Guy" or assinine shit like that, you can fuck off or take it to the moderators. Again, the real moderators. Not Simon or RougeIce. Thanas or Lagmonster, or whomever you think will care that actually has power on this board.
Last edited by Formless on 2011-08-19 12:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Formless » 2011-08-19 12:35pm

Simon_Jester wrote:As to the objection that the MEH is being presented unfaithfully to CN's wishes, I can sorta understand, but to be honest CN abdicated creative control of his nation a long time ago after people got pissed off at him for being a dickhead and trying to game the rules. Since then, the MEH evolved into a one-dimensional parody, and the current writing is actually an improvement over the parody in some respects because it shows more complexity and actual effort put into protecting the MEH than CN ever put in.

His efforts were more concentrated on bitching in the OOC thread about things he didn't like and trying hamhanded ploys to manipulate game rules to his advantage.

Personally, I prefer a one dimensional parody to an inconsistently portrayed serious nation. Hell, at times the Bragulans can appear pretty one dimensional too, and yet they are one of my favorite nations in the game.

I was also thinking of some of the stuff Darkevilme posted too, but this looked more pressing because of the bad precedent it appeared to create. I'm sorry for not reading more carefully with regards to certain recent posts establishing Sasha's ascension to true godhood, but bear in mind its been busy this week and I haven't been able to keep up with everything that has been posted here. That said, I think in a game that was supposed to be rules lite trying to bend the rules to your favor is a lesser problem to trying to railroad the story. In my mind, the MEH stomp from the beginning was always going to end more in the spirit of (the military-political equivalent to) Stealth Fail than what it has become just due to the sheer number of people involved with conflicting agendas.
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2011-08-19 12:41pm

Formless wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:As to the objection that the MEH is being presented unfaithfully to CN's wishes, I can sorta understand, but to be honest CN abdicated creative control of his nation a long time ago after people got pissed off at him for being a dickhead and trying to game the rules. Since then, the MEH evolved into a one-dimensional parody, and the current writing is actually an improvement over the parody in some respects because it shows more complexity and actual effort put into protecting the MEH than CN ever put in.

His efforts were more concentrated on bitching in the OOC thread about things he didn't like and trying hamhanded ploys to manipulate game rules to his advantage.

Personally, I prefer a one dimensional parody to an inconsistently portrayed serious nation. Hell, at time the Bragulans can appear pretty one dimensional too, and yet they are one of my favorite nations in the game.

I was also thinking of some of the stuff Darkevilme posted too, but this looked more pressing because of the bad precedent it appeared to create. I'm sorry for not reading more carefully with regards to certain recent posts establishing Sasha's ascension to true godhood, but bear in mind its been busy this week and I haven't been able to keep up with everything that has been posted here. That said, I think in a game that was supposed to be rules lite trying to bend the rules to your favor is a lesser problem to trying to railroad the story. In my mind, the MEH stomp from the beginning was always going to end more in the spirit of (the military-political equivalent to) Stealth Fail than what it has become just due to the sheer number of people involved with conflicting agendas.


Idiot. The MEH was such a joke that a lot of things done simply made so little sense that it boggled the mind.

The whole idea from the start, starting with a post here, was to give at least some logical reason to the insanity that CN had created, followed by this and then the Downfall post.

The whole point of this exercise wasn't to just give a nice ending to it all, it was to at least give this game some purpose beyond the MEHStomp. Otherwise, the game would have simply grinded to a halt and died by sheer lack of ideas and interest.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Formless » 2011-08-19 12:45pm

And that purpose is to... further the interests of the K-Zone powers and only the K-Zone powers. Sorry, that's railroading and I have no tolerance for it. Never have, never will, do not ask me to change my mind about it. I've had that experience before, and it never ends well.

Edit: And why not skip to something more interesting if people are getting bored with the MEH-Stomp? Unreal Time exists for a reason, you know.
Last edited by Formless on 2011-08-19 12:49pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-19 12:47pm

Pray tell, how would that interest K-Zone powers in anyway in game?
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shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
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