SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-19 04:43pm

No. That show is probably heresy in Byzantium, so the Byzantines won't recognize it at all. :P
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Dark Hellion » 2011-08-19 09:49pm

Alright, since I am directly involved in the Sol system I feel I should way in with my opinion on "Downfall". As a story I like it; it is tense and dramatic and has an interesting conclusion. On its own I find it perfectly acceptable. Unfortunately, this is a collaborative story effort and in that light "Downfall" suffers from severe continuity issues. Darkevilme laid many of them out so I will not rehash those but simply add my own to the list.

First, close as I can tell (the timeline of some of the events in MEH space are a bit muddled) I have around 48 hours during which I am alone in the Sol system. I have over three times the MEHNs full Sol Defense Fleet strength (even assuming no loses or performance deterioration from months of fighting an Ork waaaagh) and this fleet by necessity will be split into at least two groups (one at Earth and another to protect the warp gate at Uranus). Thus I can easily overrun the MEHN in the system. It should be assumed that I have control over the space of the Sol System by the time the Brag/Byz group arrives. For the most part this makes it very hard to reconcile your story with the rest continuity even without the kind of diplomatic wrangling over MEH Earth that is likely to happen.

I do not have any real wish to see "Downfall" rendered non-canonical but I also do not wish to overlook the glaring discontinuities it would invite in its present form. However, I do have an idea/suggestion that can allow the story to remain canon and yet also preserve continuity. Others have written about how the MEH have been attempting to build a number of wonder weapons in an attempt to prevent their destruction, and CN himself wrote that the MEH (or at least Sasha) have multiversal jump technology. My suggestion is that the MEH attempted to make some type of multiverse transit device, either as a weapon to remove enemy fleets or an escape method to retreat from this universe. But, this device does not function properly and instead of its intended effect it creates a kind of 'multiversal nexus' that encloses the Sol System and a surrounding area of space well beyond the hyperspace limit. Inside this nexus the Sol System has been copied many times, each copy lying in their own tiny pocket universe with various levels of removal from base reality. Ships entering the Sol System through various hyperspace vectors can each enter their own pocket universe from which escape by similar methods may or may not possible.

For the most part this is just an idea from reading too many DC comics but I think it solves a number of problems and opens many interesting story possibles. First, it allows everyone to have their cake and eat it too as different groups can each enter a different pocket universe and get their shot at Sasha without having to fight over her. It also allows "Downfall" to remain canon and in continuity. But more importantly it opens many story angles. Some factions could have their fleet scattered across multiple universes with different elements contending with the situation. Layers far removed from base reality may become increasingly distorted allowing for posts that could be considered too silly, esoteric or grimdark to be in continuity. We could also have a very interesting story as the Refuge attempts to undo this phenomena (possibly with help from the Umerians or others).

As for the resolution of this I can see it going in several ways. First, we could leave this nexus up as some odd spacial anomaly which players could argue about and factions like the Elyssians could use to have strange adventures. Second, we could have players figure out how to reverse it and end up with over a dozen fleets all simultaneously dumped back into base reality in the Sol System and have fun with that diplomatic clusterfuck. Finally, we could have the process of reversing it send the Sol System to another universe, denying anyone a clear victory in the MEHstomp and using that as a springboard for future political tensions.

Now as I said this is just an idea. I do not want to go writing this in unless there is some general consensus of players and mods. It is basically a giant cop-out deus ex machina to let players get away with all kinds of things without needing any retcons. And I have no objection if someone can come up with a better idea or if Siege et al. decide to retcon on their own. Frankly, I feel no one is going to be happy with the resolution of the MEHstomp. There are so many participants who each have their own view on events and their own conflicting styles to satisfy anybody but the faction who makes the final post and I fear it could turn into a big conflict of people who are all trying to get in the last word. I feel that my idea (or a similar one) could prevent that. I also think that it would speed up this storyline by allowing each poster to proceed at their own pace and thus allow people to move onto other storylines.

I hope people will consider this option and either add input or attempt to come up with their own idea.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby White Haven » 2011-08-19 10:14pm

I...I'm sorry, DH, but that's the most horrid copout I've ever read. Comic Book Logic would be an upgrade from that. I don't claim to have a great answer, not least of which because I haven't kept track of all the pieces in play due to not being there (fictional characteres aside), but...horrid copout.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-19 11:11pm

Well, that's an interesting suggestion DH.

But, I honestly don't know what to make of it. I wasn't aware that the Xylyx had gotten to Sol (I thought they were shooting down listening posts last time), so yeah this is an unexpected pickle we're in now. And I have no idea how to resolve it (and at the moment I'm also pretty sleep deprived).

But thanks, Hellion. I just... don't know about the whole popping multiverses and pocket universes. My first reaction was actually to ask out loud what you were smoking, and if you could hook me with some, cause damn that weirds even me out. *Salute* :P
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-08-19 11:28pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Well, that's an interesting suggestion DH.

But, I honestly don't know what to make of it. I wasn't aware that the Xylyx had gotten to Sol (I thought they were shooting down listening posts last time), so yeah this is an unexpected pickle we're in now.
Seconded- I must have missed the part where the XylyXians were already overrunning the system.

Although who knows? Maybe Dr. Androidbik's superweapon fried the XylyXians?

:D

And I have no idea how to resolve it (and at the moment I'm also pretty sleep deprived).

But thanks, Hellion. I just... don't know about the whole popping multiverses and pocket universes. My first reaction was actually to ask out loud what you were smoking, and if you could hook me with some, cause damn that weirds even me out. *Salute* :P
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Siege » 2011-08-20 04:55am

Hmm. Last I checked the Emissaries were on their way at an undefined and entirely, and I feel we shouldn't get hung up on assuming the events of the story thread necessarily have to take place in a chronological order.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Dark Hellion » 2011-08-20 06:12am

I think you should be hung up on the fact that even as things stand now your post requires at least four factions to sit around for something like 12 hours in Sol Sector without making any kind of moves. This is discounting the fact that I still haven't gotten to write any story posts past June 1, 3401.

To be blunt, the assumption that several million naval personnel including thousands of officers and myriad AIs of various degrees of sentience are going to sit around with their thumbs up their asses for long enough to watch a Lord of the Rings marathon is utterly ridiculous and the only reason I am trying to find some other way for it to remain canon is because it is well written. Otherwise I would just attempt to force a retcon by... well, doing fucking anything at all because your post assumes that I just sit around and jerk off for 96 fucking hours.

Your post was cool and flavorful and I really enjoyed it but it requires half a dozen factions and something like 100,000 points of ships to literally hold the idiot ball for a full day. Even 80's cartoon henchmen were more competent than that.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Siege » 2011-08-20 06:35am

Can you clarify for me which those four factions are, and why it is necessary for them to "sit around for something like 12 hours in Sol Sector without making any kind of moves" for Downfall to happen? Where did these 12 hours come from, anyway?

EDIT: To avoid potential confusion I'd like to clarify that this isn't a trick question or somethin'. Yours truly might be one of those persons who "routinely post here in bad faith" (god that cracks me up every time :)), but in this particular case I'm honestly not following.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby RogueIce » 2011-08-20 11:59am

As far as Downfall is concerned, my main concern is the Terror From Beyond, in general terms. As I recall, we were trying to avoid introducing too much of that, with certain exceptions. Still, as long as this stays semi-contained to MEH Sol and we don't have a lot of "Warp Demons" or whatever popping up on a routine basis, I'm fine with it.

As far as the rest...well, there is a response, of sorts. Whether or not that idea I last discussed Thursday night is still a go, I'm not sure.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-08-20 12:07pm

[Modhat on]

IF "Downfall" winds up standing in essentially its present form, then:

1) The extreme effects will be limited to a small area around MEH Sol for the foreseeable future. In the extreme long term (centuries) it might be more of a problem, but only if in the extreme long term it is plausible that mechanisms for countering the spread could be devised by people willing to put in the effort.

2) Any other bizarre Terror From Beyond manifestations related to the "Downfall" phenomena must be limited in scope, to the point where they aren't inherently more of a threat to large civilizations than, say, renegade Solarian cyborgs or Kryptonian superdicks. Isolated locations may have problems with them at specific times, but no one's going to be stuck having to accept that their civilization gets washed away in a plague of demons.

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Siege » 2011-08-20 12:16pm

We certainly don't want to force anything on anyone. I want to emphasize that we are not aiming for a "the Imperium was right, time to submit to the God-Emperor, turn the lights down and cue the spikebannerskulled grimdarkness" response. That's not how the Sovereignty is going to respond, and it's not how I expect anybody else to respond (if they want to respond in the first place, which they might not want to.)

We are most empathically not trying to turn this game into WH40K. There might be shades of it popping up here and there, but that's really no different from shades of Doc Smith turning up in Simon's fiction, or shades of William Gibson showing up in mine. We all have our preferences and nobody's gonna force you to do anything you don't wanna do. It's for this reason too that we've blended the typical 40K blood sacrifice stuff with generic Cthulhu Mythos type prose, to make it palpable for those of us who abhor 40K (which as I understand it includes several of our players... Though I'll be the first to admit that 'since you don't like Khorne we've added some Yog-Sothoth just for you!' might not be the response these players were looking for... ;))

What it all boils down to is, you're still free to tell the stories you want to tell. No-one's gonna enforce a '... but with daemons!' imperative on ya!
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby RogueIce » 2011-08-20 12:23pm

Yep. Sorry I didn't make it clear (pressed for time). I know that's not what you were gonna do, Siege. I am basically satisfied.

I actually kinda like it, as is. We have this...nexus...or whatever it is. I figure people will be watching it. Might be good for the occassional fodder of the various nations 'monitoring the situation' to, ah...bump into each other? Whether accidently or otherwise...
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-08-20 12:53pm

Siege wrote:We certainly don't want to force anything on anyone. I want to emphasize that we are not aiming for a "the Imperium was right, time to submit to the God-Emperor, turn the lights down and cue the spikebannerskulled grimdarkness" response. That's not how the Sovereignty is going to respond, and it's not how I expect anybody else to respond (if they want to respond in the first place, which they might not want to.)
That was my perception, I just wanted to nail it down to reassure everyone. This is, at most, an opportunity for others to write stories featuring Terrors From Beyond, should they choose to do so. Not an imposition.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-20 01:05pm

If anyone wants to see Byzantine atrocities in the MEH, the Bragulans will be the first ones to broadcast it to the galaxy. We have telecameras and fricking printing presses (along with some other less archaic media instruments) in some of our paleocruisers. Possibly the very same telecameras that showed the mooning of the Apexai homeworld live to countless Bragulans eating bragcorn at Bragule! Brag brag brag!
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Master_Baerne » 2011-08-20 11:19pm

I'd just like to have it on record that I have no serious problems with Downfall - sure, there were Eoghan and Ascendant ships there before the Byzantines could have showed up, but there's plenty of ways for things to have turned out that way.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Force Lord » 2011-08-20 11:28pm

Master_Baerne wrote:I'd just like to have it on record that I have no serious problems with Downfall - sure, there were Eoghan and Ascendant ships there before the Byzantines could have showed up, but there's plenty of ways for things to have turned out that way.


Oh don't worry, I'm writing up just the reason.... :twisted:

Assuming Downfall is canon, of course.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-20 11:57pm

Awesome, PeZook. That's what penal divisions are for! :twisted:

And EWOKS! The biggest little badasses ever!

Did they all die? :(
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-08-20 11:59pm

[modhat on]

When everyone has had a solid opportunity to weigh in on the events of the battle for Sol system, I will do what I need to to resolve the situation in an internally consistent fashion that doesn't keep any player from being able to participate meaningfully in events.

Downfall is, at most, a framework for people to think about 'what happens if I don't get involved decisively.' I'll be taking it under very serious consideration, but, I repeat:

Everyone is still free to post about what's happening at the Battle of Sol. What happens when the smoke clears is as yet unsettled, though Downfall is a good place to start if you need something to base your image of events on.

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Dark Hellion » 2011-08-21 01:53am

Siege wrote:Can you clarify for me which those four factions are, and why it is necessary for them to "sit around for something like 12 hours in Sol Sector without making any kind of moves" for Downfall to happen? Where did these 12 hours come from, anyway?

EDIT: To avoid potential confusion I'd like to clarify that this isn't a trick question or somethin'. Yours truly might be one of those persons who "routinely post here in bad faith" (god that cracks me up every time :)), but in this particular case I'm honestly not following.


From what I can tell (again the timeline for the MEH invasion is a bit muddled because several posts are not dated) from the OMINOUS the Eoghan and Ascendant forces of the Sol Distraction fleet were in system since June 3rd while the Byz/Brag forces seem to arrive sometime June 4th. So a timeframe of something like 12-24 hours exists in which these two are in Sol but make no move. From the Coalition the Klavostani's have stealth ships in the area that are monitoring ship movement (I am going to assume that the Klavostani's detected the logistics tail of the Emissary fleet when they sent their message to the Tianguo) and it is unclear if the Tianguo sent any advanced forces to system between June 2nd and June 4th. So, there are at least three and possibly four factions who have forces in the area who must not respond.

Additionally, the Coalition fleet jumps toward Sol Sector at 11AM June 4th. This gives a relatively short time in which the Brag/Byz fleet must jump from Xena to Sol and then move from the hyperspace limit to Earth, smash the static defenses, drop colonies and then fulfill the Downfall post. I am not saying that this is impossible. As it currently stands it could happen but it seems to rely on a number of very improbable events. Besides simple physical interdiction it relies on the Byzantines being able to act for several hours without any diplomatic pressure that they cannot ignore. Given the perpetually fragile political nature of the K-Zone and the fact that half of the known galaxy has reasons to apply such pressure I think this is a very, very big assumption to make. Additionally, many OMINOUS members have a vested interest in applying their own pressures on the Byzantine fleet to forestall this kind of event and considering the general animosity between the inhumanists and the Imperium, the relative size of fleets and the investment of military power the Imperium is making, I doubt the Primarchs want to risk being destroyed by their own allies. Especially because such actions could severely endanger their position within K-Zone and galactic politics. Of course, the Imperium is Fins and he can do whatever he wants with it but in the interest of fairness others should have been allowed to do what they wanted with their factions and respond to the events leading up to Downfall.

And these objections are only using continuity as it stands now. I am still early in June 1st, 3401 in my storyline which means I have at least 24 hours + transit time of total impunity within the Sol Sector before any Tianguo advanced force could arrive, 48-72 hours + transit time before the Sol Distraction Fleet arrives and 72-96 hours before Downfall occurs. Downfall makes no consideration for my actions and for any reactions that other factions may have to them.

Now, I don't think there was any ill-will involved in the creation of Downfall, I think you guys had an idea for a story you felt was interesting and you ran with it. This is why I suggested the goofy multiverse idea. Now, that idea is very comic booky (Steve and other DC fans should recognize it as basically an adaptation of the various DC crisis events) and is honestly just a giant cop-out to maintain what I think is cool story that would otherwise need to retconned out for continuity reasons. I am not actually very satisfied with that whole idea and would welcome other suggestions but I do think it would make for some very good stories.

Additionally, while I neither agree with his tone or his general conclusions I did find Formless use of the word "Bullying" to be interesting (and hilarious ironic how he redacted it). I found it interesting because while not quite the proper word it does somewhat inadequately describe the situation. It isn't the right word because bullying carries connotations that are far too negative and implies a malice that isn't there but this situation does involve a kind of "polite extortion" being present. Basically, you guys have said "hey dudes we got this sweet post for how the MEHstomp works out now everyone just has to make sure it comes true." Now, for the most part this is just the game working as intended. It is necessary for people to modify their stories and ideas in order to fit other peoples posts into continuity. However, I feel that you did jump the gun a bit by not letting the entire story proceed before posting and have oversimplified what should be a very complex event. That being said many people seem to be okay with changing their plans in order to work it into canon and I do have several ideas of how I can write my own fleet out but I honestly don't like having to do so simply because you managed to post first.

Because of research I haven't really been as active as I want to be and have had to change my plans a couple of times because of what others have posted so I am going to try to give a general idea of what my plans are for the Sol system so that others can draw up some reactions before I simply dump posts on people.

12:00am June 1st: Emissary fleet enters Sol Sector and destroys first listening post. Frigates are dispatched and systematically destroy all out of system defensive installations. Given other people's general timelines I figure this should take around 12 hours or so.

12pm June 1st: Emissary fleet broadcasts to Sol System. First is a demand for unconditional surrender (its been well established that they aren't going to surrender until the bitter end) with an ultimatum if they do not surrender within 36 hours the Emissaries will utterly destroy the system one planet at a time. Second is a call for civilian evacuation in light of the upcoming planetary bombardment. Unarmed transports will be guaranteed safe passage with anyone attempting to intercept or fire upon them being summarily destroyed. This is both a pragmatic move (its good PR) and preserves the continuity of Siege's posts. While this evacuation occurs the Emissary fleet will enter the Sol system and destroy any military escorts of the civilian convoys and attempt to draw out the Solar Defense fleet into a decisive battle. I feel the Solar defense fleet will eventually have to swallow their misgivings and trust that the civilian transports will be safe unescorted in order to keep a defensive force at Earth but it may work better for others stories to have the defense force make some kind of suicide run.

12am June 3rd: Emissary fleet begins bombardment of Pluto. First it destroys all military targets then moves on to industrial targets and finally onto civilian habitation. The bombardment is highly discriminate and targeted so that civilian evacuation routes are the final thing destroyed. Back in Emissary territory civil war begins over this action leaving the First in charge of the Emissary fleet in MEH territory.

June 3rd+: Crisis point. OMINOUS forces will now be in the territory and may react. I plan to continue bombardments skipping Uranus because of the warp gate facility there and destroying the Saturnian colonies, Jovian colonies, Martian colonies, etc. until the Solar Defense fleet engages or I hit Earth. However, others may have reactions that cause these plans to change. This is were discontinuity occurs because there will be over 30,000 points of Emissary fleet in the Solar System and they will react to the Imperium's actions. Now, there are ways I can write myself out during this time period but I don't really like being forced to. That being said I do have one idea that I am kinda liking but I need a bit of time to work it out further to see if I really want to use it.

With all that said I would like to reiterate that I am not against Downfall itself. I like the story and I'm sure that Mayabird and me could use it for some cool story collaboration about Adventures in Amateur God-Slaying. If a couple more posters decide that they want to keep it I am totally cool with helping that along. Given the belligerent and quixotic nature of my faction I am sure I can justify actions that will help bring it about. For the most part I just want to make sure that all the loose ends get tied up if we are going to use it and to raise a bit of a fuss to stress that this kind of thing should be an outlier and not become precedent.

[Addendum one: This post was typed out over a period of several hours and so you may notice an inconsistency of tone as I ate dinner and had several smoke breaks during which I mulled some of this over. I did not attempt to edit this out because 1) that would probably take a few more hours during which I would probably have more time to think about this and be back at the same problem. 2) I find it personally interesting how as the thought processes work through this post my attitude changes.]

[Addendum two: Just an aside for those comment on comic book logic. First to Shroomy, this idea is mostly stolen from DC; apparently Warner Bros. doesn't scimp when it comes to getting their writers the good shit, which probably explains Freakazoid and the Animaniacs. Second, to White Haven about how its worse than Comic Book Logic; no way man! I didn't involve time travel, the spirit of God's vengence, faceless lesbians (Steve we need you for this buddy) or immortal cavemen. It doesn't even involve people flying around in their underwear so I feel that I am still safely in the realm of bad sci-fi logic :lol: ]
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby White Haven » 2011-08-21 02:18am

Dark Hellion wrote:It doesn't even involve people flying around in their underwear so I feel that I am still safely in the realm of bad sci-fi logic :lol:


It's okay man. Tim has that one covered for you already.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-08-21 02:20am

[modhat on]

Tim's Kryptonians can't fly without technological assistance.

DH, I will review this in more detail tomorrow. Bear in mind that I don't think anyone else is particularly enthusiastic about your timeline or multiverse ideas, which you seem to have developed largely in isolation.

That said, everyone please be restrained in your criticisms of DH's proposal for the time being, if you have any. As I said, I will review it tomorrow to see if there are bits of it worth incorporating into the overall plan. At this time I have nothing to say about it, because I don't want to put in the time to review it this late at night.

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-08-21 02:41am

Dark Hellion wrote:
From what I can tell (again the timeline for the MEH invasion is a bit muddled because several posts are not dated) from the OMINOUS the Eoghan and Ascendant forces of the Sol Distraction fleet were in system since June 3rd while the Byz/Brag forces seem to arrive sometime June 4th. So a timeframe of something like 12-24 hours exists in which these two are in Sol but make no move.


The Eoghan and Atlanteans arrived at Sol on June 2. Their purpose there is to basically harass and harry the defenders to prevent them from reinforcing Xena, not directly engage them in a giant decisive battle, because the EUC/Atlantean force is not big enough to simply smash the defenders aside. They force the Sol fleet to stay in Sol, the Sol fleet cannot reinforce their allies in Xena who are getting killed because if they leave the system, Sol will be defenseless from the Eoghans and Nova-Atlanteans.

They did stand there for a day or two waiting for reinforcements. OMINOUS was meant to back them up right after affairs at Xena were over. However, while OMINOUS was ready to reinforce them, the Chamarran-Centralist negotiations delayed them.

The Ascendants went first before the rest of OMINOUS, in response to the Eoghan calls for reinforcements.

Additionally, the Coalition fleet jumps toward Sol Sector at 11AM June 4th. This gives a relatively short time in which the Brag/Byz fleet must jump from Xena to Sol and then move from the hyperspace limit to Earth, smash the static defenses, drop colonies and then fulfill the Downfall post. I am not saying that this is impossible. As it currently stands it could happen but it seems to rely on a number of very improbable events. Besides simple physical interdiction it relies on the Byzantines being able to act for several hours without any diplomatic pressure that they cannot ignore. Given the perpetually fragile political nature of the K-Zone and the fact that half of the known galaxy has reasons to apply such pressure I think this is a very, very big assumption to make. Additionally, many OMINOUS members have a vested interest in applying their own pressures on the Byzantine fleet to forestall this kind of event and considering the general animosity between the inhumanists and the Imperium, the relative size of fleets and the investment of military power the Imperium is making, I doubt the Primarchs want to risk being destroyed by their own allies. Especially because such actions could severely endanger their position within K-Zone and galactic politics. Of course, the Imperium is Fins and he can do whatever he wants with it but in the interest of fairness others should have been allowed to do what they wanted with their factions and respond to the events leading up to Downfall.


Ah, but you forget. The OMINOUS and SHITS don't exactly see eye to eye, and they will also be exerting diplomatic pressures on each other because the Centralists brought in other human nations to Sol.

Originally Sol was supposed to be OMINOUS Only with no human coalition fleets allowed. Xena and Sol were OMINOUS, Alpha Centauri and Wolf were SHITS. This was the original agreement between Shinra and Chamarra.

The Centralists desperately wanted to kill Sasha, so they made a last minute negotiation with Chamarrans (thus delaying the OMINOUS strike at Sol). The agreement was that only the Centralists would enter Sol, for the sole purpose of killing Sasha, and then they could bugger off and OMINOUS would have Sol for itself.

The Centralists brought Tianguonese (who later backed off because of PORTENS), Haruhiists, Hiigarans and some others who I may be forgetting into Sol.

The Chamarran plan for Xena and Sol is to basically make them tributaries subservient to the Hierarchy, or something to that effect. The Centralists breaking their end of the bargain and bringing in additional human forces would threaten this. So there would be some diplomatic friction between the Chamarrans and the Centralists, and the OMINOUS and the SHITS.

Bragule would go on further to fan the flames of these frictions, by going "the humans betrayed us, they are coming to steal Sol from OMINOUS!" and other such incendiary agitprop to further confuse the situation and make OMINOUS and SHITS butt heads while the Byzantines fuck Earth up.

And these objections are only using continuity as it stands now. I am still early in June 1st, 3401 in my storyline which means I have at least 24 hours + transit time of total impunity within the Sol Sector before any Tianguo advanced force could arrive, 48-72 hours + transit time before the Sol Distraction Fleet arrives and 72-96 hours before Downfall occurs. Downfall makes no consideration for my actions and for any reactions that other factions may have to them.


We had no idea that you were in the Sol system actual. Your last post before that was destroying some listening posts on June 1, and mobilizing your fleet and deploying them. So... oops. :oops:

Now, I don't think there was any ill-will involved in the creation of Downfall, I think you guys had an idea for a story you felt was interesting and you ran with it. This is why I suggested the goofy multiverse idea. Now, that idea is very comic booky (Steve and other DC fans should recognize it as basically an adaptation of the various DC crisis events) and is honestly just a giant cop-out to maintain what I think is cool story that would otherwise need to retconned out for continuity reasons. I am not actually very satisfied with that whole idea and would welcome other suggestions but I do think it would make for some very good stories.


Instead of making bubble universes, can't we simply alter some time stamps and fluidize the chronology of events if we want to keep Downfall? That would seem simpler.

It would also make more sense for the Xylyx to begin attacking MEH listening posts and assets after or simultaneously when the SHITS (and OMINOUS) begin their first attacks, because that would distract the MEH and disallow them from reacting to Xylyx incursions.

However, I feel that you did jump the gun a bit by not letting the entire story proceed before posting and have oversimplified what should be a very complex event. That being said many people seem to be okay with changing their plans in order to work it into canon and I do have several ideas of how I can write my own fleet out but I honestly don't like having to do so simply because you managed to post first.


We left the actual battle of Sol undetailed, and did not actually describe anything aside from Byzantine actions, precisely to allow others to flesh out their reactions and the details of the complex Sol situation.

June 3rd+: Crisis point. OMINOUS forces will now be in the territory and may react.


Well, the Eoghans and Nova Atlanteans were there at June 2. They arrived at Sol exactly when the rest of OMINOUS attacked Xena.
Now, there are ways I can write myself out during this time period but I don't really like being forced to. That being said I do have one idea that I am kinda liking but I need a bit of time to work it out further to see if I really want to use it.


Well, as long as that idea doesn't involve DC style crisis universe shenenigans, I'll look forward to hearing it. Because, yeah, as you say we've got a lot to suss out.

And I'm glad that you're cool with Downfall, and are also talking to us about this without, I dunno, threatening to unleash a vast conspiracy of robots at people's countries for some totally not-personal reasons or something. You're a real mensch, man. :)

And no, I would not like to have any of DC's ca-ca. They're just terrible.

White Haven wrote:
Dark Hellion wrote:It doesn't even involve people flying around in their underwear so I feel that I am still safely in the realm of bad sci-fi logic :lol:


It's okay man. Tim has that one covered for you already.


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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby PeZook » 2011-08-21 02:56am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Awesome, PeZook. That's what penal divisions are for! :twisted:


Well, duh. But even a penal division will lose the ability to attack after sustaining a certain level of casualties. Even if you treat your soldiers as you would expendable rounds of ammunition, they'd still be expected to accomplish something in return for their death, even if it's just demining an area :P

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Darkevilme » 2011-08-21 09:49am

Okay and up. A reaction.
Fingolfin I dont expect to cause a lot of damage, just some, but that's dependent on what the others do. Because of course we announced our decision to Ominous so anyone on Ominous is welcome to join us.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2011-08-21 10:03am

Darkevilme wrote:Okay and up. A reaction.
Fingolfin I dont expect to cause a lot of damage, just some, but that's dependent on what the others do. Because of course we announced our decision to Ominous so anyone on Ominous is welcome to join us.


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