SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Create, read, or participate in text-based RPGs

Moderators: Thanas, Steve

User avatar
White Haven
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6292
Joined: 2004-05-17 03:14pm
Location: Richmond, Virginia: The Capitol of Treason
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby White Haven » 2011-04-07 05:28pm

While my brain continues to fizzle and burp along like an Umerian chemistry set with regards to a prospective nation, I've run across a more mechanical question browsing through the wiki. Specifically the Solarian order of battle and the carrier rules as posted seem wildly at odds with one another (warships with carrier capacities and no apparent penalty to warfighting ability, non-superheavies carrying ultralights). Given the prominence of the Solarian presence, I assume the carrier rules have changed behind the scenes. For obvious reasons, I'd like to figure out what exactly the rules are before I start to write up an order of battle.
Image
Image
Chronological Incontinence: Time warps around the poster. The thread topic winks out of existence and reappears in 1d10 posts.

Out of Context Theatre, this week starring Darth Nostril.
-'If you really want to fuck with these idiots tell them that there is a vaccine for chemtrails.'

Fiction!: The Final War (Bolo/Lovecraft) (Ch 7 9/15/11), Living (D&D, Complete)Image

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28492
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-04-07 06:27pm

White Haven wrote:While my brain continues to fizzle and burp along like an Umerian chemistry set with regards to a prospective nation, I've run across a more mechanical question browsing through the wiki. Specifically the Solarian order of battle and the carrier rules as posted seem wildly at odds with one another (warships with carrier capacities and no apparent penalty to warfighting ability, non-superheavies carrying ultralights). Given the prominence of the Solarian presence, I assume the carrier rules have changed behind the scenes. For obvious reasons, I'd like to figure out what exactly the rules are before I start to write up an order of battle.
Could you name the ship classes in question? We may have a violation on Siege's part, or more likely just an honest mistake.

Rules are as follows.


STARSHIP CARRYING: WHY BOTHER?

In general, there's no point to having carriers that carry starships, since anything over 3 points is yacht-class and is perfectly capable of moving as far as you want under its own power.


SMALL CRAFT CARRYING: HERE IT IS

Small craft (gunboats, which are hypermobile but lack inter-sector range, and fighters, which are STL) must be placed on a carrier.

A carrier devotes X points to small craft storage, up to the limit of its hull size. It carries X/2 points of small craft. However, this small craft wing acts offensively as if it were worth X points: small craft punch at twice their nominal point value.

This part gets people upset because it's kind of inelegant. I was not a mod when the decision was made, though I was involved in the discussions at the time; the main reason we don't change it now is that everyone would have to rewrite their order of battle to adjust the point costs of their small craft. I for one am opposed to that because it would involve work.


THE FOLLOWING APPLIES TO CARRIERS WHICH DEVOTE ALL OR NEARLY ALL THEIR POINT VALUE TO SMALL CRAFT CARRIAGE:

A carrier, operating alone and without its small craft wing, has a 'defensive' value equal to its point cost: that reflects how difficult it is to kill. Thus, if you wish to destroy a 300-point carrier, you had better bring along a 300-point battleship, or a wolfpack of several 40-50 point destroyers, because you're going to need that volume of firepower.

HOWEVER, the carrier's offensive firepower is quite limited- probably massed point defense weapons more than anything else. Therefore, the carrier on its own is unable to reliably kill ships worth more than 10% its own point value: a 75-point cruiser cannot reasonably expect to kill a 300-point carrier using its limited weapons, but the carrier won't be killing the cruiser either. At least, not until its small craft wing comes back.

User avatar
White Haven
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6292
Joined: 2004-05-17 03:14pm
Location: Richmond, Virginia: The Capitol of Treason
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby White Haven » 2011-04-07 07:21pm

Ah. The salient point is that those carrier rules bear almost no resemblance to the carrier rules in the wiki linked under Current Ruleset. Are properly-updated rules posted anywhere, and if so would it be possible to get an updated link?
Image
Image
Chronological Incontinence: Time warps around the poster. The thread topic winks out of existence and reappears in 1d10 posts.

Out of Context Theatre, this week starring Darth Nostril.
-'If you really want to fuck with these idiots tell them that there is a vaccine for chemtrails.'

Fiction!: The Final War (Bolo/Lovecraft) (Ch 7 9/15/11), Living (D&D, Complete)Image

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20719
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-04-07 08:40pm

Steve posted an update involving saying something about telling us peons to stop bothering him. :D
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

User avatar
Dark Hellion
Permanent n00b
Posts: 3501
Joined: 2002-08-25 07:56pm

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Dark Hellion » 2011-04-07 10:08pm

Sorry bout the general silence from me, I just haven't been feeling it the last couple of weeks. Also, according to Simon I can legitimately claim writers block so bleh.

About the carrier rules, given the mess that they have been can't we just rule 1 it instead and say, carriers exists, make them up somehow, don't be a douche about using them?

Anywho, whenever I get around to it I have another BEEEF post to make, as well as a post to prelude my involvment in operation MEHstomp and maybe some little silly posts as well. I just need to get them organized in my brain.

Finally, no giant killer robots in the Inhumanist league Shroom? We hate humanity too.
A teenage girl is just a teenage boy who can get laid.
-GTO

We're not just doing this for money; we're doing this for a shitload of money!

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20719
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-04-07 10:18pm

We (the Brags) don't know what to make of the Xylyx.

Though if you are coordinating with the Chamarrans, then we can gladly bring you into the special meeting that will happen after the Inhumanist League meeting. That special meeting dealing with a certain very large, you could almost say fat, interest we have in common. :D
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

User avatar
Mayabird
Storytime!
Posts: 5970
Joined: 2003-11-26 04:31pm
Location: IA > GA
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Mayabird » 2011-04-07 11:41pm

I'm making a list of all the major players and forces in the former Outlander Commissions. Here's what I have so far:

Image
A graphical representation of the interactions between the competing and opposing forces listed



Major nations:
The Refuge
The Bragulan Star Empire
The Clans of Hiigara
Byzantine Empire

Sassanid Empire?
League of Free Stars??

(Special considerations) Karlack Swarm

Mega-corporations:
Spinward Outback Trading Company
Multi-Planetary United


Political movements:
Centralism
Communards

Others:
Former Outlanders
*Black Asteroid caretakers/local Muslim sect


These are for major powers and forces only. Small mercenary groups and pirates, etc, are excluded. So, any others I should add to the mess?

EDIT: addition of Black Asteroid, removal of USS.
Last edited by Mayabird on 2011-04-08 09:10pm, edited 2 times in total.
DPDarkPrimus is my boyfriend!

SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.

KlavoHunter
Jedi Master
Posts: 1401
Joined: 2007-08-26 10:53pm

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby KlavoHunter » 2011-04-07 11:58pm

Presumably there is at least a moderate-sized group of the local sect of Muslims who are acting as caretakers of the Black Asteroid, where supposedly the twin Black Stones of the twin Meccas of Earth and Nova Terra originated from. Expect some professional Klavostani mercs to supplement their defensive muscle.
"The 4th Earl of Hereford led the fight on the bridge, but he and his men were caught in the arrow fire. Then one of de Harclay's pikemen, concealed beneath the bridge, thrust upwards between the planks and skewered the Earl of Hereford through the anus, twisting the head of the iron pike into his intestines. His dying screams turned the advance into a panic."'

SDNW4: The Sultanate of Klavostan

User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11831
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2011-04-08 12:32am

KlavoHunter wrote:Presumably there is at least a moderate-sized group of the local sect of Muslims who are acting as caretakers of the Black Asteroid, where supposedly the twin Black Stones of the twin Meccas of Earth and Nova Terra originated from. Expect some professional Klavostani mercs to supplement their defensive muscle.

And well paid too. :lol:
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28492
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-04-08 12:57am

Is that a real graph, Maya? I can't read it.

[embarrassed]

User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11831
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2011-04-08 01:19am

Simon_Jester wrote:Is that a real graph, Maya? I can't read it.

[embarrassed]

I do not believe so.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 19602
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby K. A. Pital » 2011-04-08 03:31am

Would me dumping a few of the Commune's more advanced technology to the Communards in Outlander Co. impact the situation somehow?
It is of paramount importance to achieve naval superiority... because humans are mostly made of water

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20719
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-04-08 05:17am

Probably, yeah. :D
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

User avatar
Mayabird
Storytime!
Posts: 5970
Joined: 2003-11-26 04:31pm
Location: IA > GA
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Mayabird » 2011-04-08 08:37am

Well...it might be a real graph. I just found it online while looking for an out-of-context overcomplicated 3D graph to represent the nature of how screwed up the former Outlands are.

So, Black Asteroid caretakers. Anyone else?

Edit: and speaking of them, would this be something where the Refuge could get some local brownie points by letting pilgrims go worship there and keeping the traveling lanes clear? Made me think of a hypothetical yelling match:

"It promotes goodwill and we could even charge a small toll for traveling there."

"But they're worshiping a god. We shouldn't encourage any theology, no matter what the source!"

"Oh, come on. Their god isn't real!"

Panic Node: "YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!"
DPDarkPrimus is my boyfriend!

SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.

User avatar
Siege
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4108
Joined: 2004-12-11 12:35pm
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Siege » 2011-04-08 09:43am

The Sovereignty isn't directly involved in the Outlands, as a rule the Sovvies don't maintain a military presence outside the K-Zone. Doesn't stop enterprising individuals or, well, enterprises from meddling of course, but that's another matter.
Image
SDN World 2: The North Frequesuan Trust
SDN World 3: The Sultanate of Egypt
SDN World 4: The United Solarian Sovereignty
SDN World 5: San Dorado
There'll be a bodycount, we're gonna watch it rise
The folks at CNN, they won't believe their eyes

User avatar
White Haven
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6292
Joined: 2004-05-17 03:14pm
Location: Richmond, Virginia: The Capitol of Treason
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby White Haven » 2011-04-08 01:35pm

So since it's been established that the carrier rules are woefully out-of-date, are there any other divergences from the posted rules that new players should know about beforehand?
Image
Image
Chronological Incontinence: Time warps around the poster. The thread topic winks out of existence and reappears in 1d10 posts.

Out of Context Theatre, this week starring Darth Nostril.
-'If you really want to fuck with these idiots tell them that there is a vaccine for chemtrails.'

Fiction!: The Final War (Bolo/Lovecraft) (Ch 7 9/15/11), Living (D&D, Complete)Image

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28492
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-04-08 02:08pm

The naval construction times have been updated, so I don't think so. The ground troop rules are screwy, but haven't been changed and don't cause a lot of problems- certainly won't cause problems when you're setting up your country.

That said, I'd like to review where you're planning to put your country and what it is; PM me, OK?

User avatar
doom3607
Jedi Knight
Posts: 648
Joined: 2011-03-02 04:44pm
Location: Bringing doom to a world near you!

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby doom3607 » 2011-04-08 07:37pm

Yay, rules issues! :evil:

By the way, I had a thought. I'm assuming people have considered a major NPC invasion of the galaxy at large, so I'd like to ask- what was the reasoning against? Because I thought it would be... interesting if the Melconian Empire, say, decided to stop by and do some conquering. Someone not actively xenophobic to the point of always genocide all the time, in particular- someone who people can negotiate with and backstab the rest of us to side with. That might allow for some shaking-up of the galaxy that I can't see coming about any other way. So, why not, because like I said, I assume this has been thought of before?

User avatar
RogueIce
_______
Posts: 13185
Joined: 2003-01-05 01:36am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby RogueIce » 2011-04-08 07:49pm

doom3607 wrote:Yay, rules issues! :evil:

By the way, I had a thought. I'm assuming people have considered a major NPC invasion of the galaxy at large, so I'd like to ask- what was the reasoning against? Because I thought it would be... interesting if the Melconian Empire, say, decided to stop by and do some conquering. Someone not actively xenophobic to the point of always genocide all the time, in particular- someone who people can negotiate with and backstab the rest of us to side with. That might allow for some shaking-up of the galaxy that I can't see coming about any other way. So, why not, because like I said, I assume this has been thought of before?

If everybody (or at least a supermajority) wanted that to happen, it could possibly do so. But barring that, I don't think there's a will for it.

Besides: who's controlling this extragalactic force from a playing standpoint? Or does each player just randomly assume control of their own theater and what happens happens?

I mean, sure we don't get to just dictate that only what we want to happen will happen. I could launch an invasion force against Siege tomorrow and he'd just have to deal with that, for example. (I'm not going to, of course) But insofar as introducing an entirely new element into the game that could affect, well, everyone, I think it is something that all players can either go along with...or object to. With good reason.

So, tl;dr version: I don't think anyone feels like dealing with that, as the majority seem rather content with the current state of affairs.
Image
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight

User avatar
Master_Baerne
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1984
Joined: 2006-11-09 08:54am
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Master_Baerne » 2011-04-08 07:55pm

I'd have no particular objection to an extragalactic invasion. It'd shake things up, certainly - but I'd like to get my internal affairs in order before anything of that magnitude happened.
Conversion Table:

2000 Mockingbirds = 2 Kilomockingbirds
Basic Unit of Laryngitis = 1 Hoarsepower
453.6 Graham Crackers = 1 Pound Cake
1 Kilogram of Falling Figs - 1 Fig Newton
Time Between Slipping on a Banana Peel and Smacking the Pavement = 1 Bananosecond
Half of a Large Intestine = 1 Semicolon

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28492
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Simon_Jester » 2011-04-08 08:59pm

I agree with Rogue; I don't want major events dropped on my head any time in the near future.

Hell, I introduced an NPC faction that could potentially make trouble, but I wouldn't impose any major events caused by that faction without the consent of the players directly involved. A galactic invasion would have just such an effect- everyone would be obliged to drop their plans and deal with the consequences.

KlavoHunter
Jedi Master
Posts: 1401
Joined: 2007-08-26 10:53pm

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby KlavoHunter » 2011-04-08 09:26pm

I think with all the players who've popped into existence already, we're ALREADY dealing with a MUCH more interesting sense of "Invasion", it's not like they're sweeping in in an all-conquering horde of starships with their weapons blazing, necessarily. Not everything is resolved by warfare alone.
"The 4th Earl of Hereford led the fight on the bridge, but he and his men were caught in the arrow fire. Then one of de Harclay's pikemen, concealed beneath the bridge, thrust upwards between the planks and skewered the Earl of Hereford through the anus, twisting the head of the iron pike into his intestines. His dying screams turned the advance into a panic."'

SDNW4: The Sultanate of Klavostan

User avatar
Force Lord
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1562
Joined: 2008-10-12 05:36pm
Location: Rio Piedras, San Juan, Puerto Rico
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Force Lord » 2011-04-08 10:56pm

Yeah, a sudden extragalactic invasion will cramp our storylines.

And now I started a new one.
An inhabitant from the Island of Cars.

User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11831
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2011-04-08 11:13pm

Master_Baerne wrote:I'd have no particular objection to an extragalactic invasion. It'd shake things up, certainly - but I'd like to get my internal affairs in order before anything of that magnitude happened.

There have been lots of discussions into this actually.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20719
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2011-04-09 12:21am

Mayabird wrote:Well...it might be a real graph. I just found it online while looking for an out-of-context overcomplicated 3D graph to represent the nature of how screwed up the former Outlands are.

So, Black Asteroid caretakers. Anyone else?

Edit: and speaking of them, would this be something where the Refuge could get some local brownie points by letting pilgrims go worship there and keeping the traveling lanes clear? Made me think of a hypothetical yelling match:

"It promotes goodwill and we could even charge a small toll for traveling there."

"But they're worshiping a god. We shouldn't encourage any theology, no matter what the source!"

"Oh, come on. Their god isn't real!"

Panic Node: "YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!"


There could be a Defense Against Divine Actions department that now promotes a new strategy of diverting indigenous people's beliefs from worshiping potentially real god-entities that would eat souls and break shit to worshiping totally not-real harmless fake gods like Christianity, Islam and so on. *

Hell, there could be a Space Jihadist group that goes around blowing up Buddha statues ancient artifacts of mysterious dead races, and since these artifacts are potentially theologically unsound, the Refuge could support the Jihadist loons in blowing up those infidel iniquities.



* Byzonism and Byzantine Orthodoxy don't count in the latter, since their deity worship-figures are real and are harmful, though they aren't really god-entities. Well, at least Byzon doesn't have theological powers. Dunno how the GEoM's gnarly psyker powers strike the Refuge.
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!


Return to “STGOD role-playing games”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest