SDN World 3 World History

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Agent Sorchus
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Agent Sorchus » 2009-11-15 11:26pm

In 1738 when the Ethiopian Emperor was defeated asfter his invasion of Sennar the Funj Sultan forced the Empress of Ethiopia out of power and placed a competent advisor in her place. This was all a bid by the Funj royal family to bring in allies in the face of Egyptian might. However Ethipia did not come to their aid in 1751.
Siege wrote:Whilst the Sultan stayed there in 1751 the city was besieged by a huge army sent by the Funj Sultan, which was annihilated by the army of ad-Din in the Battle of Sawakin. The Funj then sued for peace and Nasir ad-Din accepted the surrender of the last Funj Sultan, Badi III.
As the royal family's power colapsed after the Surender one group fled to Ethiopia to distance themselves from their dishonor.
However the militarism of the Sennar culture could not abide by the new government. In 1762 a coup was attempted, lead by Abu Likayik this coup petered out during a short drought. However in the next year during the attempt on the egyptian Sultan the coup was reinvigorated by the Ethiopian Emperor Iyoas I and the Funj royal family in exile. 1764 with reasurances from the Ethiopians to the Egyptians a Funj Sultan once again was enthroned in Khartoum.

The new Sultan found his courts filled with both egyptian and ethiopian influence. One of the few places that the Sultan actually had power was through the advisor in the ethiopain emperors ear. Both countries feared the egyptian army but neither had sufficent knowlege to lend to each other to resist. As the almost failed coup had demonstrated one drought could easily bring down a well planned conflict. So it was that Ethiopia starrted drastic improvments of their argriculture and the Sennar Sultan tried to keep all the other powers of the world at bay.

In the 1790s Ethiopia was finally free of the fear of a yearly drought. Meanwhile the Sultan of Sudan despite having losing a portion of the western most regions was doing well by blaming those in his courts that were impeding his policies and removing them from power. The War of the Second Coalition saw a limited number of millitary observers of the Sultan's army along side Napoleon after his return.

By the 1820's the newest Sultan decided to reclaim even the most distant lands of the former Funj empire. by the early 1840s the Sultan's army had conqueered all the way to the coast of Cameroon

1841 Ethiopian Emperor Yohannes III was preasured into retirement with his eldest Daughter taking the throne. She then married the Sudanese Sultan. This was only possible due to the mellowing of the Sudanesse royal families religious nature, since their exile they had been one the moderate side of the religion.

1869 Italy takes possesion of Eritrea.

1884 Douala is granted to Germany in exchange for Naval favors.

1896 Battle of Adwa leads to the Sultan's army surrounding Asmara with the demand for Eritrea and Somalia to be declaired as part of Sudan's territroy.

Currently there is a territorial dispute with the Grand Dominion over the proper authority of the Hannish Islands. This dispute is not of great importance in the face of the Separtist conflict and both sides have tabled the issue at the current time.
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Lascaris » 2009-11-21 09:54am

Minister of Pigeonry wrote: 1904-1905 – Refugee programs to welcome those fleeing conflict in South America go into effect. In Uruguay, the ruling “Blanco” party begins to feel increasingly threatened as opposition “Colorados” adopt socialist ideologies and challenge the “Blancos” right to power. Though Cisplatina lies between the newly formed Federal Socialist Republic of Brazil and Uruguay, conservative leaders fear Brazilian interference in Uruguayan affairs and begin to see subversion around every turn. Eventually real unrest begins to rise in the northern regions of the country and, in a panic, the Blancos send forth emissaries to Spain for aid. Domestically, social changes are still on the march, though, now the people are beginning to make their own voices - stifled for so long by Prime Minister Antonio's iron hand - heard. From Cascadia, there come groups promoting women's rights that quickly set about organizing and inspiring the female population of Spain.

1905-1906 – Taking advantage of the fear and conflict in Uruguay, Spain slowly works its way back into the country, at first through aid in form of supplies then troops for security and eventually through a bloodless coup that officially draws the nation back into the Spanish empire. Reform policies in Spain are quickly established in Uruguay silencing and appeasing most leftist sentiment that had brought the Blancos into Spanish hands in the first place - their inflexibility having been their undoing. Additionally, Spain reconfirms and seeks to broaden many of its earlier agreements made with the German Empire several years earlier when the new regime took power in Madrid in 1902.
Somewhat belatedly reading all this. Still...

Cisplatina ideologically is firmly liberal in the European 19th century sense. The original colonial setup was a mix of Dutch settlers and Jesuit Guarani missions in the interior that drew in "odd" elements of immigration even when Portugal managed to grab the colony back. After that Garibaldi was one of the country's founding fathers, Saint-Simonists played a very influential role in developing the state and hordes (relative to the size of population) of liberal immigrants reached the country.

Furthermore since the very start Cisplatina has had a close connection with Uruguay dating back all the way to Artigas. Or to be more accurate it has had a close connection with Uruguayan liberals and Colorados. The blancos would be fearing Cisplatina, with its land reforms, liberals etc doctrines like hell given how that would be going against the entrenched interests of your usual South American elites.

In other words come 1904 while the Blancos want to join up Spain there is going a very strong current in Uruguay centered around the Colorados that looks up to Cisplatina the same way Blancos look up to Spain. And while Cisplatina is not up to taking full advantage of it with the Brazilian revolution taking place next door it would be nevertheless supporting Uruguayan liberals.

And more importantly it will still be doing so as of 1925. Spanish reforms may be all nice and good but Spain is still not a democracy nor can upturn more than a century of ties and common history for Uruguayan liberals and republicans to just be happily content with Spanish rule.

How this plays out when combined with the little problem of Brazil and Peru/Bolivia is a question to make life more interesting. 8)

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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor » 2009-11-21 10:13am

Byzantine Empire, 1071

In 1071, the Seljuk Turks mounted a huge campaign against Byzantine Anatolia. One attack was aimed at the city of Antioch, while the other was aimed at Manzikert. Antioch was lost despite attempts to relieve the city, but Byzantine forces won a decisive victory over the Seljuk Turks at the Battle of Manzikert. Subsequent skirmishes between Byzantine forces and Seljuk forces ensured that the Seljuk Turks would not pose a significant threat to Byzantium for a significant amount of time. However, they failed to retake Antioch due to the Turks being too strong there. Romanos IV Diogenes won great fame for his success in battle, but his failure to retake Antioch however, doomed the continuation of his political future. Court intrigue, resulted in his son being Emperor but for one day before he was unseated by John Doukas,

The Seljuk Sultan Malik Shah however was furious at the heavy losses incurred in the campaign, and the horrendous defeats his armies suffered at the hands of the Byzantine army. He ordered the massacre of all the Orthodox Catholics and Christian pilgrims in Jerusalem. Tales of the bloody killings brought by fleeing refugees reached far and wide and shocked all of Christendom. This gave Pope Urban II, in 1095, an opportunity to rouse up to fires of the masses, and to proclaimed a Crusade against the Heathen Muslims. The Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos however declined as the Empire had wounds to lick, and the Seljuk Turks had lots of fight left in them. Regardless, the Pope Urban II garnered the support of many princes and knights, who would then lead an expedition to the east.

This was regarded with scorn by Alexios I Komnenos, who barely managed to hold onto his Southern Italian provinces, and now had to contend with armies from the West. Neither had he forgotten Urban II's refusal to lend him aid during the Seljuk invasions. Alexios did his best to escort the Western armies out of his territory in the most expedient way possible, but the initial Crusading expedition, the People's Crusade, had to be manhandled out of the territory because of the random sackings of various towns. The subsequent Princes expedition required a good portion of the Byzantine military escorting them out of the territory. Alexios even extracted oaths or pledges of loyalty from each one of the princes that they would not pose significant trouble to the Byzantine realm. The unnecessary deaths of many of a Byzantine did not endear the westerners to the populace, who regarded them as uncouth, violent and vulgar. This led to further estrangement between the Eastern Orthodox Catholics and their Western Catholic brethren.

While the fracturing of the Seljuk Sultanate allowed the Crusaders to gain victory, their failure to return Antioch to Byzantine hands as promised further infuriated Alexios I, who wrote a strongly worded letter to the Pope accusing him of authorizing a land grab from fellow Christians. However, Alexios held his armies back, and refused to help the Crusaders any more than required. The Seljuk Turks were doing a fine job decimating themselves as well. Jerusalem was subsequently captured by the victorious Crusaders, and they establish four realms between themselves: The Principality of Antioch, the Kingdom of Jerusalem. The Alexios and the subsequent son and heir, John II Komnenos chose to bide his time while regenerating the forces lost during the Seljuk invasions.

John II, in particular, instituted a major reform to the Imperial court system, making the Komnenos family the supreme Imperial family of the land, and that eldest sons (and subsequently daughters a century or two later) of the Komnenos would be Emperors. He then proceeded to award titles to men whom he felt were worth of trust and of quality to take on the role of civilian governors of the various themes, and also a separate post of High Strategos who would be the military commander for the themes. He also abolished many irrelevant posts and instituted a thorough reform of the Imperial Government such that it was more efficient and increased centralised control of the Empire. He also expanded the Varangian Guards, and they were appointed to be the guards of the various High Strategos, and civilian governors, ostensibly to provide protection for the well-being of their charges. The truth of course, was that the Varangian guard was strictly in the pay of the Emperor, and they were the Emperor's assurance that his governors would obey his every wish and command. Under Manuel I Komnenos, more reforms were instituted. The Senate was granted more power to make laws, though the final decision still lay with the Byzantine Emperor. The Senators were also made more liable to the populace through election, rather than in the past where the Senate was largely composed of the aristocracy. These reforms began the slow but arduous march towards a form of senatorial democracy that would determine the way the Empire was governed in the 19th century.

Manuel I Komnenos refused to march to the Crusaders' aid when they tried to take Damascus and Egypt. Instead, his son, Alexios II Komnenos signed an agreement with Saladin in which they would aid each other in expelling the hated European barbarians. In a joint assault on the Crusaders, the a Byzantine Army led by Alexios II Komnenos himself marched and took Antioch by storm. This however, sealed forever the schism between the East and West and never again would the schism be healed.
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Byzantine Empire, the Third Crusade and the Fourth Crusade

The Western Catholics had not forgotten Byzantine treachery in the taking of Antioch and sought to punish both the Byzantines and the Saracens and retake Jerusalem, and in early 1189, Pope Gregory VIII called for a Third Crusade against Byzantium and the Saracens. Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa invaded Byzantium from the Balkans and was intercepted at Sirmium with the bulk of the Imperial Tagmata, and the Thracesian theme troops. In a battle that hearkened back to the glorious Battle of Nineveh, Byzantine forces clashed fiercely with Holy Roman Emperor troops, and at the climax of the battle, Emperor Alexios II Komnenos, and his elite force of Krataphrateoi troops clashed into Frederick I Barbarossa's retinue. Such was the skill of Byzantine cavalry that Frederick Barbarossa's horse was terrified and and fled to the nearby river, only to have the Emperor thrown off, and drowning in the river itself. With the death of their leader, the Holy Roman Empire's troops were routed from the field of battle.

Alexios II then turned his attention to the East. His son, Adronikos Komnenos, was appointed the leader of the Eastern armies, and he led the joint Ayyubid-Byzantine campaign against Richard III the Lionheart. The battles were fierce, with some setbacks, but in the end, Richard III was forced to abandon his positions in the Middle East, and to flee with what forces he had left.

In 1204 however, another crusade was launched. This time, the Papal authorized combined Venetian and Genoan navy, carrying troops from Italy and Spain, led an assault upon the Byzantine island of Crete. For the Venetians and Genoans, this was a chance to wrest control of the eastern Mediterranean from their Byzantine rivals, and to dominate the eastern Mediterranean trade they so coveted. They were met by the Byzantine Navy, and the use of Greek Fire and skilled tactics drove off and decimated the Venetian and Genoan navy. This cemented the control of the Byzantine Empire over the Eastern Mediterranean, and it would be decades before the Venetians and their allies attempted to wrest control of the Eastern Mediterranean again with a force of this size. In the aftermath of the attack, the Venetians and the Genoans agreed to a cease fire treaty with the Byzantine Empire, which was poised to launch a raid on Italian territories along the coast in retaliation for the attack. Few in Europe desired to contest Byzantine supremacy in the east for a while.

In 1394, mass revolt in the Bulgaria, resulted in a complete secession of the territories. Attempts to deal with the revolts were unsuccessful. Instead, the Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII Komnenos negotiated with the rebel leaders, and in exchange for holding the northern frontier secure, he would grant them control over their lands. One of the Emperor's nieces was married off to the Rebel King. In that time, the Byzantine Empire formed a network of alliances with Hungary, the Russian Princes, and even with Austria, which though was Catholic, was eager to claim a share of Byzantine trade.

In 1453, endless tussles over trade between the Byzantine Empire and Venice, and the rise of Spain led to repeated clashes between the Spanish and the Byzantine Empires. This cummulated to the Fifth Crusade, which was declared at the instigation of the Pope. When news of the crusade was declared, Byzantium and Egypt renewed their old alliance, and massed a large fleet to face down the Spanish/Venetian armada. Both sides knew that a victorious Spanish and Venetian armada would be disastrous for the East, and no one wanted to give the Venetian trading Empire too much control over trade. Troops were also sent to southern Italy, to deter any would-be aggressors from marching down south. The fleets met at Lepanto, and in the last great Galley battle, the Spanish and Venetian navies were driven from the field with great loss, and the lack of intermittent resupply points meant many ships never made it home.

In the 16th century, the race for America began. However, Byzantium looked East instead. Small foot holds gained in Persia allowed it to set up a shipyard there to allow it to build ships that would sail east, while other ships sailed around the Cape of Good Hope to the East. Among the first trading posts it established, were in the Riau islands, as the natives called it, and Java. These later grew into full fledged colonies ruled by an Imperial Governor appointed by the Emperor.

During the Reformation crises in the Western Church, the Roman Empire did not get involved in any of the armed warfare, though it clashed with some Protestant factions from the Holy Roman Empire, who thought the southern Italian provinces were easy pickings, only to be met with force by the appointed High Strategos of the Taranto theme. The Empire stood on the sidelines of the Thirty Years war, not wishing to be too involved in a rather messy war.

With the Sultanate, troubles started appearing in the late 17th century. Relations reached a new low as the Sultan Hasim accussed John IX Komnenos of conspiring against him. This led to a war, with the Egyptian armies bursting pass Byzantine defences around Antioch. The armies avoided Antioch, but went rampaging through Anatolia. The Strategos of the Antioch theme massed his Akritoi and Pronoiars together with reinforcements from the surrounding lands, his large detachment of troops and retaliated with superior tactics and technology, driving the Egyptian armies from the field. John XI Komnenus, sensing an opportunity, led the Imperial Tagmata into an invasion of Syria and lay siege to Damascus. The siege was short and swift, for the population was wary of the paranoid sultan, and pledged their allegiance to their new Byzantine masters. The Imperial Tagmata next marched down into Iraq and took control of Baghdad. This signaled the end for Sultan Hasim, and led to another round of infighting within the Sultanate, while the Byzantine Imperial Army consolidated their control over Syria and much of Iraq.

The Industrial Age

In the 18th and 19th century, Byzantium's premier trade economy and its already bustling late Medieval age industry allowed it to leap onto the Industrial Revolution with great fervor. Industrialization took place briskly, and in this time, more political reforms were tabled and moved. Modern forms of government came into being, as the Byzantine Imperial Government began reforming its own bureaucracy to enable the Government to run more efficiently. The government bureaucracy had grown labyrinthine and the Emperor was determined to streamline it. Also, this time, the Senate was given more power to administer many of the newly formed ministries. Political parties were slowly being formed as a reflection of the citizenry's desire to have more say in government. A High Senator post was created, where the High Senator would form a cabinet to run these ministries. Most of the government, except the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Defence, were handed to the High Senator and his cabinet colleagues. This created a potentially antagonistic relationship between the Emperor and the High Senator, for the High Senator held control of the treasury, which pays the troops, while the Emperor held control of the Imperial Armed Forces. Two main parties were formed: One was the Monarchists, who largely consisted of the old aristocracy which though had lost much power, still commanded substantial influence. The other was the Moderates, who championed the rights of the people and the reduction of the rich-poor gap.

These reforms were completed under Emperor Gregorios II Komnenos in 1801, one of the most enlightened Emperors to come into power since John II Komnenos. These reforms became known as the Political Compact of 1801. It was also during this time where the Imperium Romanum reconciled with their Egyptian allies, and sign a treaty of friendship which would last to this day. There were still matters of contention, for the Byzantine Empire held tightly on its possessions which were in the heart of Muslim territory. The Empire had also set up many colonies and re-establish old cities within Persia in a bid to mine for resources to feed the growing the growing Byzantine Industry.

Between the 18th and 19th century, the first steam engines were built and the first rail networks were built. The Byzantine Imperial Navy evolved continuously, building more ships of the line to defend its sea lanes and ensure that the Byzantine Imperial Navy remained the dominant power of the Eastern and Central Mediterranean. During Napoleonic wars, attempts by Napoleon Bonaparte to wrestle control of the Eastern Mediterranean resulted in many defeats, both at the hands of the Byzantine Imperial Navy, as well as the British Royal Navy.

Byzantine outposts in the Riau islands and in Java grew in strength as well. Fertile crops and some raw material mined and sold to various parts of the world. Control of the Riau islands allowed Byzantium to command a central position in South East Asia. With Singapore, it was shared with the Royal Navy who co-administered the island.

The 20th Century

In more recent times, relations with the Russian Empire plunged after the collapse of the Imperial Russian government due to the Bolshevik revolution. Trade between the two nations plunged and resulted in a hiccup in the economy. Russia had long been regarded as a major economic hinterland for Byzantium, and now the Empire had to find new markets to export its goods to. Within the Empire itself, the Communist Party grew in strength, and while it was tolerated, a watchful eye was placed on the party to ensure that they do not subvert the workings of the Empire, and that they do not attempt to topple the Imperial Government. In reaction to the Communists, the Monarchist Party took a harder line against the Communists and were their most ardent foes. The Moderates continue to tread lightly between the two antagonistic parties. The current Emperor is Alexios IV Komnenos, and his son, Doukas Komnenos is the High Grand Admiral of the Imperial Navy, and is the heir to the throne.
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Lascaris » 2009-11-21 12:51pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Byzantine Empire, 1071

In 1071, the Seljuk Turks mounted a huge campaign against Byzantine Anatolia. One attack was aimed at the city of Antioch, while the other was aimed at Manzikert. Antioch was lost despite attempts to relieve the city, but Byzantine forces won a decisive victory over the Seljuk Turks at the Battle of Manzikert.
Uhm. The Seljuks had not enough forces to mount such a two pronged attack. Actually IMS Arp Aslan's army was on his way to attacking the Fatimids when Romanos start the Manzikert campaign. So I very much doubt the Seljucs are anywhere in position to take Antioch. Particularly given that Antioch has the strongest fortress in the Mediterranean after Constantinople itself and defended by a sizable army, Justinian's fortifications of it were massive and it took several months both for Byzantine armies at the time of Nicephoros Phocas and for Crusader armies in the 1st Crusade to capture it. Case in point the Byzantine ability to hold to it for several years post Manzikert despite the non existense of a Byzantine army in Anatolia and constant civil war.
Subsequent skirmishes between Byzantine forces and Seljuk forces ensured that the Seljuk Turks would not pose a significant threat to Byzantium for a significant amount of time. However, they failed to retake Antioch due to the Turks being too strong there. Romanos IV Diogenes won great fame for his success in battle, but his failure to retake Antioch however, doomed the continuation of his political future. Court intrigue, resulted in his son being Emperor but for one day before he was unseated by John Doukas,
Math don't quite fit. Romanos sons served under Alexios I and were at about his age. Romanos died in 1074 only from the treatment inflicted on him when overthrown. So you need to kill off Romanos one way or the other and a brief interregnum that leads to Alexios taking the purple.
This was regarded with scorn by Alexios I Komnenos, who barely managed to hold onto his Southern Italian provinces, and now had to contend with armies from the West. Neither had he forgotten Urban II's refusal to lend him aid during the Seljuk invasions.
Ehm... what aid and what south Italian provinces? Bari the last Byzantine stronghold in south Italy had fallen to the Normans in 1071. And Alexios never asked Urban for more than facilitating the recruitment of mercenaries.
He also expanded the Varangian Guards, and they were appointed to be the guards of the various High Strategos, and civilian governors, ostensibly to provide protection for the well-being of their charges. The truth of course, was that the Varangian guard was strictly in the pay of the Emperor, and they were the Emperor's assurance that his governors would obey his every wish and command. Under Manuel I Komnenos, more reforms were instituted. The Senate was granted more power to make laws, though the final decision still lay with the Byzantine Emperor. The Senators were also made more liable to the populace through election, rather than in the past where the Senate was largely composed of the aristocracy. These reforms began the slow but arduous march towards a form of senatorial democracy that would determine the way the Empire was governed in the 19th century.
Doesn't fit again. First Manuel was the fourth son of John. And while you can assume that Alexios (the older and most capable) still dies before John it leaves two more older sons before Manuel. Second why and how expand the Varangian guard? The Varangs were already about as large a force as recruitment allowed and were hardly the sole imperial unit in the direct pay of the emperor. About every unit of the imperial army was so. And sans Manzikert the Pronoia system is not needed and hence you don't even have a semi-feudal class of troops instituted out of necessity. Last the senate was completely and absolutely irrevelant at the tame and for the past 1000 years or so. Why an absolute monarch would reinstitute it as an elected office of all things?
Manuel I Komnenos refused to march to the Crusaders' aid when they tried to take Damascus and Egypt. Instead, his son, Alexios II Komnenos signed an agreement with Saladin in which they would aid each other in expelling the hated European barbarians. In a joint assault on the Crusaders, the a Byzantine Army led by Alexios II Komnenos himself marched and took Antioch by storm. This however, sealed forever the schism between the East and West and never again would the schism be healed.
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Is Manuel emperor at the time of the 2nd crusade without John's primature and accidental death? Then Alexios II was the son of a certain Mary of Antioch, princess of... the duchy of Antioch, a sad sack of a character by all accounts and too young when Manuel died. Furthermore both John and Manuel entered Antioch in their time. Why they don't make it stick when Byzantine Anatolia is intact and thus the Empire immensely more powerful?
Alexios II then turned his attention to the East. His son, Adronikos Komnenos, was appointed the leader of the Eastern armies, and he led the joint Ayyubid-Byzantine campaign against Richard III the Lionheart. The battles were fierce, with some setbacks, but in the end, Richard III was forced to abandon his positions in the Middle East, and to flee with what forces he had left.
How has Richard reached the Middle East? Flying? Because by ship he has to go through the imperial fleet. And the imperial fleet will kick his posterior in a massive way if at war with him... which they will be in when he attacks Cyprus. Oh for a bit more math Alexios in 1198 is checks 28 years old. His son is...
In 1204 however, another crusade was launched. This time, the Papal authorized combined Venetian and Genoan navy, carrying troops from Italy and Spain, led an assault upon the Byzantine island of Crete. For the Venetians and Genoans, this was a chance to wrest control of the eastern Mediterranean from their Byzantine rivals, and to dominate the eastern Mediterranean trade they so coveted. They were met by the Byzantine Navy, and the use of Greek Fire and skilled tactics drove off and decimated the Venetian and Genoan navy.
Venice and Genoa were already at each others throats. And Byzantum already playing them off each other to each advantage.

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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor » 2009-11-21 12:58pm

I'm going to admit that this is a sordid butchery of history, but seriously, unless you have better ideas, I'm not going to revisit this piece of work that has lingered for over a month. I have a lot of other more important work to do really.

And finally, I was revamping the Senate to destroy most of the original court system. Also, the idea behind the Senate is to put it at some distance from the Emperor himself. And of course, when the Senate becomes unpopular....

With regards to the Antioch situation, I was out of ideas to cook up a reason to make Romanos IV unpopular enough that he;'d get the sack, and blinded whatever.
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Steve » 2009-11-21 01:16pm

Good enough for me, Fin.
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Norseman » 2009-11-21 01:29pm

Any actual Brazilian would how bloody murder at my history so... ;)
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Lascaris » 2009-11-21 02:40pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I'm going to admit that this is a sordid butchery of history, but seriously, unless you have better ideas, I'm not going to revisit this piece of work that has lingered for over a month. I have a lot of other more important work to do really.
Actually I have but my site with the alt history of Byzantium under the house of Lascaris was on geocities. Still...

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.hist ... 321a7345ff

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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Minister of Pigeonry » 2009-11-21 06:26pm

Lascaris wrote:Somewhat belatedly reading all this. Still...

Cisplatina ideologically is firmly liberal in the European 19th century sense. The original colonial setup was a mix of Dutch settlers and Jesuit Guarani missions in the interior that drew in "odd" elements of immigration even when Portugal managed to grab the colony back. After that Garibaldi was one of the country's founding fathers, Saint-Simonists played a very influential role in developing the state and hordes (relative to the size of population) of liberal immigrants reached the country.

Furthermore since the very start Cisplatina has had a close connection with Uruguay dating back all the way to Artigas. Or to be more accurate it has had a close connection with Uruguayan liberals and Colorados. The blancos would be fearing Cisplatina, with its land reforms, liberals etc doctrines like hell given how that would be going against the entrenched interests of your usual South American elites.

In other words come 1904 while the Blancos want to join up Spain there is going a very strong current in Uruguay centered around the Colorados that looks up to Cisplatina the same way Blancos look up to Spain. And while Cisplatina is not up to taking full advantage of it with the Brazilian revolution taking place next door it would be nevertheless supporting Uruguayan liberals.

And more importantly it will still be doing so as of 1925. Spanish reforms may be all nice and good but Spain is still not a democracy nor can upturn more than a century of ties and common history for Uruguayan liberals and republicans to just be happily content with Spanish rule.

How this plays out when combined with the little problem of Brazil and Peru/Bolivia is a question to make life more interesting. 8)
Well, I suppose that's the price of trying to fit Uruguay back into the empire: bad background. The more I looked at it, the more difficult it became to justify, so the steps leading to reincorporation grew increasingly half-assed. I can't really think of a way to alter things well without giving up the territory altogether and rewriting my background so that it was never reincorporated at all. I’ve done the math and it actually doesn’t drop my points spread to lose Uruguay but it is certainly a distasteful solution. I wish I’d known more about Cisplatina when I’d written that, I’m not sure how I overlooked the close relationship between the two countries detailed in you history there. It is quite clear now that I’ve gone back and reread it. Save for giving up the territory, I just can’t figure how to justify things as they are so I’m really at a loss here. If I keep it the way it is, I fear that it will just cause a heap of problems and contradictions. To keep it and rewrite it, I’m forced to detail said problems which is just as bad.

Cisplatine history was detailed first so I'm left to alter things to fit yours. Any ideas here on how this can be resolved?

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Crossroads Inc.
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Crossroads Inc. » 2009-12-03 07:42pm

In process of Editing
Last edited by Crossroads Inc. on 2009-12-03 08:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Steve » 2009-12-03 08:00pm

Um, Great War in the 1870s? Where? What the hell are you talking about?

Consider that history rejected.
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Crossroads Inc. » 2009-12-03 08:04pm

sorry I posted the wrong back story :oops: Forgot to get the reedited one.
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Re: SDN World 3 World History

Post by Akhlut » 2009-12-03 09:23pm

Mongolian history: 1798-1868

Mongolian History

1798 – The Mongolian nomads, chafing under Qing imperial rule and Mongolian noblity installed by the Qing, started to foment rebellion, starting to attract to the flag of Temur, a minor warlord.

1801 – Temur starts raiding various Mongolian nobles, which starts to get some response from the Qing, who start sending more soldiers to Mongolia.

1804-1809 – The increased presence of soldiers leads to Temur to ride into what is properly Russia to gather more men and build up his supplies and morale. He makes continued raids into Mongolia to fight Mongolian nobles and get more nomads on his side.

1809-1811 – Temur fights a full-scale war against the Qing. It is a bloody, ruthless affair, but the harsh Mongolian climate and the Mongolian fighting spirit win the day. Temur manages to force the Qing to the surrender table, and though he is able to force the independence of Mongolia, he cannot force them to part with Inner Mongolia. While this angers him, he knows that it will be difficult to force more out, as war had already taken its toll upon the Mongolians.

1811-1817 – Temur starts to set up a legitimate government in Mongolia. He is set up as the Khan of Mongolia. Khans are elected from the Khural, a group of the highest army officers (who are themselves elected from the ranks of their lower officers, who are elected from the lower ranks, etc.). The Khan is elected for life and is mostly autocratic, though the Khural can contest certain decrees he makes.

1831 – Temur dies, and the Khural elects one of their own, Chuluunbold.

1831-1849 – Chuluunbold's rule is basically the maintenance of the status quo in Mongolia.

1850 – Several years after the Opium Wars, German and English industrialists manage to get into Mongolia proper. Prospectors and surveyors find large amounts of mineral wealth in Mongolia and petition the aging Khan to establish mining organizations in Mongolia. Chuluunbold agrees to this and allows English and German mining industries to move into the nation.

1854 – Chuluunbold dies of old age, Tsakhia is elected from the Khural. Tsakhia quickly starts to renegotiate with the Europeans and has the first building of actual factories, as opposed to simple ore mining and refining to be shipped out through Manchuria, Russia, and China.

1859 – Tsakhia continues to be very actively involved in the industrialization of Mongolia and creates the first weapon-manufacturing facility in Mongolia, the German-Mongol Weapon Corporation (GMWC), which often buys license agreements from foreign companies and modifies the weapons after a number of years.

1867 – Tsakhia dies of pneumonia very unexpectedly, leading to turmoil in the Khural. Due to exposure to European ideas, the idea of a constitution is floated. Interim Khan Ochir. The Khural establishes itself as unicameral legislative body, while delineating the Khan as an executive with supreme military control. Further, the constitution guaranteed the freedom of all political parties, as well as free speech and right of association. Unions were legalized, but there was no minimum wage. The Khural renamed itself the Great Khural. Suffrage was universal at age 16 for both sexes. The first elections were held in late 1867.

1868 – The election results are tabulated, with the Great Khural's members remaining mostly the same for lack of other options and Ochir being elected Khan for the same reason. The Khan is elected to 5 year terms, though this first term will be for 7 years to end it on a year divisible by 5. Khural seats are elected to 6 year, rotating election terms, with the first seats being up for election in 2 years, hence every six, then another election in 4 years, then every six, and finally in six years for the remaining third.
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