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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-08 04:46pm
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Jedi Master
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Joined: 2006-09-09 01:56pm
Posts: 1088
Location: Vienna, Austria
The successor to my Arno-class:

Tevere, Tuscan Kingdom heavy cruiser laid down 1923

Displacement:
16.120 t light; 16.858 t standard; 19.080 t normal; 20.858 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(696,01 ft / 688,98 ft) x 78,74 ft x (22,97 / 24,57 ft)
(212,14 m / 210,00 m) x 24,00 m x (7,00 / 7,49 m)

Armament:
12 - 8,27" / 210 mm 45,0 cal guns - 330,69lbs / 150,00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 11,02lbs / 5,00kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
20 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2,20lbs / 1,00kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4.079 lbs / 1.850 kg
8 - 23,6" / 600 mm, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m torpedoes - 2,096 t each, 16,769 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 447,83 ft / 136,50 m 10,66 ft / 3,25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1,18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1,97" / 50 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120.070 shp / 89.572 Kw = 33,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.999 tons

Complement:
811 - 1.055

Cost:
£4,227 million / $16,909 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.000 tons, 5,2%
- Guns: 983 tons, 5,2%
- Torpedoes: 17 tons, 0,1%
Armour: 2.715 tons, 14,2%
- Belts: 944 tons, 4,9%
- Armament: 884 tons, 4,6%
- Armour Deck: 856 tons, 4,5%
- Conning Tower: 30 tons, 0,2%
Machinery: 4.013 tons, 21,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.272 tons, 43,4%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.960 tons, 15,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 0,6%
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28.038 lbs / 12.718 Kg = 99,2 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
Metacentric height 4,9 ft / 1,5 m
Roll period: 15,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,536 / 0,548
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30,15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Aft deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 200,1%
Waterplane Area: 38.891 Square feet or 3.613 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 158 lbs/sq ft or 772 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,14
- Longitudinal: 1,48
- Overall: 1,17
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

extra space again dedicated to three aircraft and their support.

Two to enter service in Jan 1925, two more fitting out and two under construction

Il Principe, Tuscan Kingdom Battleship laid down 1923

Displacement:
45.299 t light; 47.986 t standard; 50.864 t normal; 53.167 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(811,72 ft / 803,81 ft) x 104,99 ft x (32,81 / 34,06 ft)
(247,41 m / 245,00 m) x 32,00 m x (10,00 / 10,38 m)

Armament:
10 - 14,96" / 380 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1.873,93lbs / 850,00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
12 - 5,51" / 140 mm 45,0 cal guns - 88,18lbs / 40,00kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
6 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, majority forward
8 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 20.044 lbs / 9.092 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,8" / 350 mm 459,32 ft / 140,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 88% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,18" / 30 mm 511,81 ft / 156,00 m 28,22 ft / 8,60 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,7" / 400 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 15,7" / 400 mm
2nd: 2,95" / 75 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 6,69" / 170 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3,94" / 100 mm Quarter deck: 3,94" / 100 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1,97" / 50 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 173.899 shp / 129.729 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 7.500nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5.180 tons

Complement:
1.693 - 2.201

Cost:
£11,873 million / $47,492 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3.744 tons, 7,4%
Armour: 16.216 tons, 31,9%
- Belts: 3.641 tons, 7,2%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 631 tons, 1,2%
- Armament: 4.720 tons, 9,3%
- Armour Deck: 7.165 tons, 14,1%
- Conning Tower: 58 tons, 0,1%
Machinery: 5.812 tons, 11,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19.427 tons, 38,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.566 tons, 10,9%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,2%
- Hull above water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
76.207 lbs / 34.567 Kg = 45,5 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 9,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 6,3 ft / 1,9 m
Roll period: 17,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,89
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,643 / 0,647
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,66 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28,35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Aft deck: 25,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Average freeboard: 27,23 ft / 8,30 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 196,1%
Waterplane Area: 64.233 Square feet or 5.967 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 229 lbs/sq ft or 1.118 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,07
- Longitudinal: 1,58
- Overall: 1,11
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Regarding carriers, I can't design them in springsharp, so I'd like to have two small carriers finished based on my Arno-class, I'd propose 13000 ts each and 15-20 aircraft (comparable to HMS Hermes) and as a bigger ship, a conversion of a Caracciolo-class battleship to a carrier, to be finished in 1925 (planned by real-life Italy but not performed). The latter should have a total capacity of 60-80 aircraft, being a bit smaller than the Lexingtons.

Edited to include the battleship design - do we go by standard not over 50 000 ts or normal not over the limit ?




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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-08 10:15pm
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Youngling
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Joined: 2009-10-22 12:45am
Posts: 105
My first seemingly successful attempt at building a ship in SpringSharp!

Sociedad Española de Construcción Naval wrote:
El Tigre, Spanish Torpedo Boat laid down 1919

Displacement:
756 t light; 791 t standard; 949 t normal; 1,075 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(295.60 ft / 278.87 ft) x 26.25 ft x (11.48 / 12.47 ft)
(90.10 m / 85.00 m) x 8.00 m x (3.50 / 3.80 m)

Armament:
1 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal gun - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1919 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal gun - 35.63lbs / 16.16kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1919 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
3 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.26lbs / 0.12kg shells, 600 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 140 lbs / 64 kg
Main Torpedoes
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m torpedoes - 1.666 t each, 13.328 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes
2nd Torpedoes
4 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m torpedoes - 1.666 t each, 6.664 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Mines
5 - 440.92 lbs / 200.00 kg mines + 15 reloads - 3.937 t total

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.02" / 26 mm - -
2nd: 0.51" / 13 mm - -

- Conning towers: Forward 2.01" / 51 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 17,337 shp / 12,933 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 2,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 284 tons

Complement:
85 - 111

Cost:
£0.218 million / $0.871 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 67 tons, 7.1 %
- Guns: 24 tons, 2.6 %
- Weapons: 43 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 8 tons, 0.9 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.4 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 476 tons, 50.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 205 tons, 21.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 192 tons, 20.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
261 lbs / 118 Kg = 2.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 9.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.395 / 0.412
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 11.77 ft / 3.59 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 169.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.6 %
Waterplane Area: 4,490 Square feet or 417 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 112 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.44
- Longitudinal: 1.87
- Overall: 0.51
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


How does it look?

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-08 10:37pm
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Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
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Posts: 35417
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Steve wrote:
*sigh* I don't suppose a battlecruiser with just 6 16"/52 guns in 1922 would be worth it? Even if it's meant for hunting down commerce raiders or enemy large cruisers, not for participating in the line of battle?


Sinking cruisers is better accomplished by a higher barrel count. If its truly not going to stand in the line of battle, a somewhat dubious assumption in history, and lies along the Strassbourg-Alaska-B65 line of thinking then you really shouldn’t need more then a 14in gun. If you think you need a 16in gun then you also need protection against it, at which point the ship will be so large that it doesn’t make sense to give it only six guns.

Evincer wrote:
Regarding the discussion yesterday, if people find that I have too many MTBs to maintain easily, I'll cut their numbers back to 400. I just want to be able to provide some density coastally.


Those little Italian MAS boats are going to be almost worthless in the Pacific swells. Even Italy with sheltered waters to operate in only had about 100 of them in service upon the outbreak of WW2, and this was by far the world’s largest MTB force. Being frail wooden things with high power aircraft engines, MTBs had short service lives and would be quite expensive to maintain in peacetime. They can only be effective at night as well. Small submarines would make a fair bit more sense for such an open coastline but do whatever.

Germany had only about 18 of its large sea going Schnellboot in 1939 in contrast, but these large boats proved much more effective. The USN and British had similar numbers, while Japan had nothing.



"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-08 10:59pm
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Location: Florida USA
So only 30-40 torp boats should be in a fleet eh?



”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-08 11:35pm
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We are talking motor torpedo boats, torpedo boats are much larger. But yeah basically huge swarms in peacetime would just mean you constantly had to produce new MTBs because the old ones don’t last twenty years or even five years if you actually use them. You could do it but it doesn’t make any real sense. For navies it’s the same story with small escorts in general and minesweepers. No one ever had as many as they needed in wartime in peacetime because manning and operating costs would become very high. Small escorts, sweepers and MTBs could be mass produced and converted in wartime unlike bigger warships.

As for shipyards this image shows the basics of what is contained within WW1-2 shipyards and how they work.
Image

An outfitting dock is not a dock in the same manner as a dry dock, but rather just a length of quay which has one or more (usually many more) mobile cranes. Several ships could be tied up at once and be worked on out of a joining shops. Typically a shipyard that built battleships would also have a special dock with a very heavy hammerhead crane, or else a very heavy floating crane would be kept around specifically for the job of installing and removing main battery guns and turrets. These massive cranes were much rarer then even capital ship sized drydocks.

The outfitting dock would be used for certain repairs and upgrades of existing ships. However that kind of work could also be done in certain dry docks and at certain naval yard facilities not equipped for the construction of new ships. It really depends on how extensive its going to be.

Of course certain work which is not intensive of shipyard capacity, like scraping and repainting hulls would also occupy dry docks for considerable amounts of time. This was often a job assigned to floating docks when they existed, but basically it should be kept in mind that you should not have 100% of dry docks occupied by ships being built or modified for extensive periods of time which would preclude doing other quick jobs.



"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956


Last edited by Sea Skimmer on 2009-11-08 11:39pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-08 11:38pm
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Ah, torpedo boats are more likely 750 or so ton mini-destroyers or cutters I imagine?

And wouldn't it be logical for a Navy to keep wartime auxiliaries like minesweepers and minelayers in reserve condition to extent lifespan in peacetime, with occasional training cruises to keep skills up?



”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

Moderator of SDN, Former Spacebattles Super-Mod, Veteran Chatnik

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-08 11:44pm
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Yes torpedo boats ranged from about 300-800 tons in WW1. Few navies persisted with such small torpedo warships afterwards, except Italy and Germany which ultimately produced designs of as much as 1,300 tons. These large late designs amounted to the standards of WW1 destroyers, but in an era of 2,000+ ton fleet units with enclosed guns and worthwhile seakeeping they proved very crappy investments.

Certain auxiliaries might be kept in reserve, but for the most part they would be mobilized from civilian service in warto,e. Many navies had programs to subsidize the construction of civilian fishing trawlers and similar craft in peacetime to ensure they would be able to accommodate a wartime role. You can put minelaying rails on just about anything, dedicated minelayer designs are few and far between in history though examples certainly exist. The USN ended up turning the ones it built in WW2 into netlayers, the British ones spent more time taking supplies to Malta then laying any eggs.



"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 01:24am
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Thanks Skimmer, I was concerned about the Pacific swells and couldn't find any real-life analogues for the MTBs in Peru (but I did find submarines.) I will switch to an alternate plan that removes the MTBs in favour of increased an coastal submarine presence and modern destroyers.

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 03:23am
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Having some MTBs makes sense, its always good to have different ways of engaging an enemy. You just dont want hundreds of them. The area of the historical Bolivian coastline is very rocky, with large stretches consisting of steep near cliff sides just behind the high water mark, so coastal defence isn’t going to be very hard for you. Defend the ports and an enemy has few other choices for a major landing. Attacks through the surrounding desert from other countries are however s concern. The desert in that part of the world is the driest on earth, but also not very wide and thus little barrier to military operations.



"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 07:23am
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German updated destroyer design:

Quote:
Z22, Germany Destroyer laid down 1922

Displacement:
1.512 t light; 1.602 t standard; 1.737 t normal; 1.845 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(436,67 ft / 426,51 ft) x 36,09 ft x (13,12 / 13,54 ft)
(133,10 m / 130,00 m) x 11,00 m x (4,00 / 4,13 m)

Armament:
9 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,06lbs / 0,03kg shells, 600 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Quad mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 498 lbs / 226 kg
8 - 20,9" / 530 mm, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m torpedoes - 1,661 t each, 13,285 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,50" / 13 mm - -

- Conning towers: Forward 6,00" / 152 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32.717 shp / 24.407 Kw = 33,00 kts
Range 2.600nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 243 tons

Complement:
133 - 174

Cost:
£0,593 million / $2,373 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 128 tons, 7,4%
- Guns: 115 tons, 6,6%
- Torpedoes: 13 tons, 0,8%
Armour: 23 tons, 1,3%
- Armament: 4 tons, 0,2%
- Conning Tower: 19 tons, 1,1%
Machinery: 827 tons, 47,6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 515 tons, 29,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 225 tons, 12,9%
Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 1,2%
- On freeboard deck: 20 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
389 lbs / 176 Kg = 7,4 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m
Roll period: 13,6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,79
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,301 / 0,310
Length to Beam Ratio: 11,82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 11,81 ft / 3,60 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 11,81 ft / 3,60 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Aft deck: 35,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Average freeboard: 11,83 ft / 3,61 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179,3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86,3%
Waterplane Area: 9.043 Square feet or 840 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 188 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,48
- Longitudinal: 0,82
- Overall: 0,51
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

20 tons for depth charges carried. (1 thrower, 2 stern racks, total of 36 charges)



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 08:45am
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After some discussion, I have decided to make the Gigante into the first ship in a new class. Her design is a clear and lengthening of the previous class, and is armed with 16"/45's patterned off of the German L 20 α class battleship that Thanas is using so I'll hear no argument about her guns this time. Also, while her weight is high, by the rules I would have the space to build her to 55kt and our limit was set at 50kt to start. I also intend to use her as a single ship class and building a newer-class armed with weapons to be tested in our current year with a first laying in 1926.

Quote:
PSS Gigante, Portugal Battleship laid down 1922

Displacement:
47,673 t light; 49,872 t standard; 51,853 t normal; 53,438 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(815.57 ft / 787.40 ft) x 114.83 ft x (37.73 / 38.62 ft)
(248.59 m / 240.00 m) x 35.00 m x (11.50 / 11.77 m)

Armament:
12 - 16.00" / 406 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,065.46lbs / 936.88kg shells, 70 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 114.33lbs / 51.86kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.88lbs / 15.37kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 26,564 lbs / 12,049 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 413.39 ft / 126.00 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 275.57 ft / 83.99 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
98.44 ft / 30.00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 413.39 ft / 126.00 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 81 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
5.00" / 127 mm 413.39 ft / 126.00 m 34.52 ft / 10.52 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 13.0" / 330 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 6.00" / 152 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 4.00" / 102 mm Quarter deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 98,172 shp / 73,237 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,567 tons

Complement:
1,717 - 2,233

Cost:
£12.575 million / $50.300 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,534 tons, 8.7 %
Armour: 19,809 tons, 38.2 %
- Belts: 4,535 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,640 tons, 5.1 %
- Armament: 5,867 tons, 11.3 %
- Armour Deck: 6,407 tons, 12.4 %
- Conning Tower: 359 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,330 tons, 6.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 20,000 tons, 38.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,180 tons, 8.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
78,498 lbs / 35,606 Kg = 38.3 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 14.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 18.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.97
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.532 / 0.536
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Average freeboard: 25.65 ft / 7.82 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 176.3 %
Waterplane Area: 62,048 Square feet or 5,764 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 241 lbs/sq ft or 1,174 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.80
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


This is the first of the Titan line, designed to be the fiercest ship on the seas, with her four turrets each sporting 16"/52 caliber guns and her thicker armor she is a full 5,000 tons heavier than the ship designed before her. Yet she is based on the same strengthened hull as the single ship test class before her.

Quote:
PSS Titan, Portugal Battleship laid down 1926

Displacement:
52,164 t light; 54,512 t standard; 56,532 t normal; 58,147 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(815.57 ft / 787.40 ft) x 114.83 ft x (37.73 / 38.60 ft)
(248.59 m / 240.00 m) x 35.00 m x (11.50 / 11.77 m)

Armament:
12 - 16.00" / 406 mm 52.0 cal guns - 2,186.90lbs / 991.96kg shells, 70 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 114.33lbs / 51.86kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.88lbs / 15.37kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 28,021 lbs / 12,710 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 413.39 ft / 126.00 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 275.57 ft / 83.99 m 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
98.44 ft / 30.00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 413.39 ft / 126.00 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 81 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
8.00" / 203 mm 413.39 ft / 126.00 m 34.52 ft / 10.52 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 13.0" / 330 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 7.00" / 178 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 5.00" / 127 mm Quarter deck: 5.00" / 127 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 90,612 shp / 67,597 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,635 tons

Complement:
1,833 - 2,383

Cost:
£18.047 million / $72.188 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5,433 tons, 9.6 %
Armour: 23,327 tons, 41.3 %
- Belts: 4,550 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 4,224 tons, 7.5 %
- Armament: 6,259 tons, 11.1 %
- Armour Deck: 7,913 tons, 14.0 %
- Conning Tower: 381 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,901 tons, 5.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 20,504 tons, 36.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,368 tons, 7.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
84,295 lbs / 38,236 Kg = 41.2 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 16.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 18.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.98
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.57

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.580 / 0.583
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Average freeboard: 25.65 ft / 7.82 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.7 %
Waterplane Area: 64,902 Square feet or 6,030 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 241 lbs/sq ft or 1,175 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.71
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather



School requires more work than I remember it taking...

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 08:47am
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And the updated version of my light cruiser:
Quote:
Hamburg, Germany Light.cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
12.388 t light; 12.812 t standard; 15.675 t normal; 17.965 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(871,51 ft / 853,02 ft) x 62,99 ft x (26,25 / 28,69 ft)
(265,64 m / 260,00 m) x 19,20 m x (8,00 / 8,74 m)

Armament:
12 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 120 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4,50" / 114 mm 45,0 cal guns - 45,95lbs / 20,84kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
2 x 2 row octuple mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 1.404 lbs / 637 kg
8 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m torpedoes - 1,678 t each, 13,424 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6,00" / 152 mm 350,00 ft / 106,68 m 15,00 ft / 4,57 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 63% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8,00" / 203 mm 5,00" / 127 mm 6,00" / 152 mm
2nd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 2,00" / 51 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1,00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1,00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 6,00" / 152 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 74.039 shp / 55.233 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 7.200nm at 21,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5.153 tons

Complement:
699 - 910

Cost:
£2,530 million / $10,121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 359 tons, 2,3%
- Guns: 345 tons, 2,2%
- Torpedoes: 13 tons, 0,1%
Armour: 3.152 tons, 20,1%
- Belts: 1.333 tons, 8,5%
- Armament: 628 tons, 4,0%
- Armour Deck: 1.110 tons, 7,1%
- Conning Tower: 81 tons, 0,5%
Machinery: 2.512 tons, 16,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6.366 tons, 40,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.287 tons, 21,0%
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29.748 lbs / 13.493 Kg = 275,4 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 3,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,00
Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,8 m
Roll period: 16,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,51

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,389 / 0,408
Length to Beam Ratio: 13,54 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29,21 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00%, 25,59 ft / 7,80 m, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Aft deck: 35,00%, 21,98 ft / 6,70 m, 21,98 ft / 6,70 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 21,98 ft / 6,70 m, 21,98 ft / 6,70 m
- Average freeboard: 22,41 ft / 6,83 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61,3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157,7%
Waterplane Area: 32.830 Square feet or 3.050 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 164%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 540 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,99
- Longitudinal: 1,13
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 09:32am
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I'm curious about Thanas' carriers. I'm certain the Graf Zeppelin (by the project of Flugzeugtrager A) was designed in 1934 and hence it's some other carrier design under the same name.

Did the finished "Flugzeugdampfer I" (Ausonia) get that name upon presumable commission in 1922? And what happened with the conversion of three seaplane tenders: the SMS Roon, SMS Stuttgart and SMS Stettin? Without the disastrous collapse of Germany, all those would be a go.



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 09:51am
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Norade, my only problem with your guns was that you seemed to leap to the biggest ones you could have. I'm going to use either 16"/50 or 16"/52 myself (I considered 16"/55 but was told they were generally regarded as unfeasible due to length) on my newest ships after my 1918 dreadnought and 1919 battlecruiser used 16"/45s.



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American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 10:52am
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Posts: 25535
Stas Bush wrote:
I'm curious about Thanas' carriers. I'm certain the Graf Zeppelin (by the project of Flugzeugtrager A) was designed in 1934 and hence it's some other carrier design under the same name.

Did the finished "Flugzeugdampfer I" (Ausonia) get that name upon presumable commission in 1922? And what happened with the conversion of three seaplane tenders: the SMS Roon, SMS Stuttgart and SMS Stettin? Without the disastrous collapse of Germany, all those would be a go.


I only have one carrier of 12000 tons. It is called the Zeppelin simply because of the Graf of the same name. Other than that, it is a pretty limited design, carrying only around 20 planes. Seaplane tenders are nonexistent. My BBs already carry some planes, why would I need some tenders?



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 10:54am
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I think there's a zero too much :-O Unless you've built a ship the size of the Nimitz.



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 10:56am
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^I shall call it the SMS Wet Dream. :P



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 11:19am
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Thanas wrote:
I only have one carrier of 12000 tons. It is called the Zeppelin simply because of the Graf of the same name. Other than that, it is a pretty limited design, carrying only around 20 planes.

So it's called the Graf Zeppelin? That's cool. I mean, in real life it didn't even have a proper name :) Your displacement and specs quite conform to it's real capacities. However, sadly I couldn't find any art of it's final view, except that rather simple scheme :)
Image
Thanas wrote:
Seaplane tenders are nonexistent. My BBs already carry some planes, why would I need some tenders?

Well, actually seaplane tenders are (IMHO) useful as dedicated ships, and in such capacity even old or civilian ships can outserve them being obsolete, having a second life. Germany planned to convert three ships (Roon, Stuttgart and Stettin) into seaplane tenders. Russia used the seaplane tender Orlitsa with quite some effect. The tenders can be sent to cover landing assaults, their planes can engage enemy planes in combat (as they did in WWI), and conduct recon more efficiently because they have many planes on-board. They are also cheaper units than BBs, made from old or civ ships, and for a navy lacking many carriers can serve as a welcome recon asset replacement.



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A short story of humanity's first contact

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 11:36am
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Yes, SMS Graf Zeppelin. However in my view it was launched by using the hull of the Blücher.

As for seaplane tenders, Stas, all that is true, but I simply did not have the tonnage left.



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 11:40am
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Sea Skimmer wrote:
Yes torpedo boats ranged from about 300-800 tons in WW1. Few navies persisted with such small torpedo warships afterwards, except Italy and Germany which ultimately produced designs of as much as 1,300 tons. These large late designs amounted to the standards of WW1 destroyers, but in an era of 2,000+ ton fleet units with enclosed guns and worthwhile seakeeping they proved very crappy investments.


What about in the enclosed waters of the Baltic? More utility there?



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 11:40am
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You drew out the total Hochseeflotte to the limits of NF 5 tonnage? Damn. Well, but those tenders are converts of your actual ships. Or you don't have the Roon, Stuttgart and Stettin in your Navy? *shakes head* I wonder just how did that happen. A new 1920's large line of 40,000 ton battleships or something?



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 11:46am
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Stas Bush wrote:
You drew out the total Hochseeflotte to the limits of NF 5 tonnage? Damn.


Yep. I found it pretty inaccurate for Germany to scrap the Nassau or Ostfriesland just yet, so they still exist - with engine rebuilds, though, which justifies their existence.

Quote:
Well, but those tenders are converts of your actual ships. Or you don't have the Roon, Stuttgart and Stettin in your Navy? *shakes head* I wonder just how did that happen.


A lot of my ships were sold off to Mexico/the Congo/scrapped. The armored cruisers I have now are the Scharnhorst and Gneisenaus, and they are relegated to training duties.

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A new 1920's large line of 40,000 ton battleships or something?


The L20alpha design got a run of 4 ships (with a few design changes).



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 11:56am
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Well, your entire commissioned dreadnaught battleship tonnage (per my calculations) is ~715000 tons (newer designs in construction not calculated, if your last commissioned series was the 4x L20a battleships), which is less than 50% allotted limit (1,500,000 ton). Did you calculate with normal displacement? Because I think all the other ships combined would weigh around the same as the battleships or less, meaning you're well within limits.



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 12:02pm
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I'm likely to convert one of the 4-5 50,000tonne new battleships into a carrier. Are there any particular objections? I will post the specs for the battleship if required.



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2009-11-09 12:05pm
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Magister
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Stas Bush wrote:
Well, your entire commissioned dreadnaught battleship tonnage (per my calculations) is ~715000 tons (newer designs in construction not calculated, if your last commissioned series was the 4x L20a battleships), which is less than 50% allotted limit (1,500,000 ton). Did you calculate with normal displacement? Because I think all the other ships combined would weigh around the same as the battleships or less, meaning you're well within limits.


No, I recreated the designs in Springsharp to get standard tonnage. Keep in mind that there are 2 extra Bayern class, 2 Ersatz Yorck to that. And there are always heavy cruisers, submarines, light cruisers et al who all count toward the limit. Plus, construction includes 300.000 for new ships that are still fitting out, but were launched in 1923/4.



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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