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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-14 04:02am
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Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Posts: 11466
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist
Improved John II Komenos Class (The ship I planned to build but I found the 12 gun Magnificat class. But since there's a ... protest against large ships, this is the fall back option. It is far more economical than comparable designs.)

John II Komnenos, Byzantine Empire Battleship laid down 1926

Displacement:
54,731 t light; 58,364 t standard; 62,265 t normal; 65,386 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(785.31 ft / 767.72 ft) x 118.11 ft x (37.73 / 39.26 ft)
(239.36 m / 234.00 m) x 36.00 m x (11.50 / 11.97 m)

Armament:
9 - 18.00" / 457 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3,900.00lbs / 1,769.01kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 59.33lbs / 26.91kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 56.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
10 x Quad mounts on side ends, majority aft
4 raised mounts - superfiring
40 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.26lbs / 0.12kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
10 x Quad mounts on side ends, majority aft
16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 12.0 cal guns - 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
16 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
Weight of broadside 36,382 lbs / 16,503 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 395.00 ft / 120.40 m 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 79 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 19.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
4.00" / 102 mm 410.00 ft / 124.97 m 40.00 ft / 12.19 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.00 ft / 23.77 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 26.0" / 660 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 19.0" / 483 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 8.00" / 203 mm
Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 5.00" / 127 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 16.00" / 406 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 76,459 shp / 57,039 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,022 tons

Complement:
1,970 - 2,562

Cost:
£16.680 million / $66.721 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5,225 tons, 8.4 %
- Guns: 5,225 tons, 8.4 %
Armour: 24,524 tons, 39.4 %
- Belts: 5,584 tons, 9.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,427 tons, 3.9 %
- Armament: 6,013 tons, 9.7 %
- Armour Deck: 9,687 tons, 15.6 %
- Conning Towers: 812 tons, 1.3 %
Machinery: 2,447 tons, 3.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 22,405 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,533 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 0.2 %
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
110,950 lbs / 50,326 Kg = 38.0 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 22.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 8.2 ft / 2.5 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.93
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.637 / 0.643
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 37.73 ft / 11.50 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Average freeboard: 24.18 ft / 7.37 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.7 %
Waterplane Area: 71,590 Square feet or 6,651 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 255 lbs/sq ft or 1,246 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.68
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather



Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-14 11:57am
Offline
Magister
Magister
User avatar

Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm
Posts: 25080
Alright, here are the new ships that Germany currently has fitting out:

Export battlecruiser, for Spain.

Quote:
Spanish Battlecruiser, Germany Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
38,664 t light; 40,704 t standard; 42,895 t normal; 44,648 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(861.92 ft / 820.21 ft) x 100.07 ft x (34.45 / 35.54 ft)
(262.71 m / 250.00 m) x 30.50 m x (10.50 / 10.83 m)

Armament:
8 - 16.00" / 406 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,700.00lbs / 1,224.70kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
1 x Twin mount on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 39.0 cal guns - 30.52lbs / 13.84kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
36 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x 2 row sextuple mounts on side ends, majority forward
2 raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 22,023 lbs / 9,989 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 24.0" / 610 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 7.00" / 178 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 112,834 shp / 84,174 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 7,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,944 tons

Complement:
1,489 - 1,937

Cost:
£11.271 million / $45.085 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,771 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 16,047 tons, 37.4 %
- Belts: 5,277 tons, 12.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,152 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 2,887 tons, 6.7 %
- Armour Deck: 6,521 tons, 15.2 %
- Conning Tower: 211 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 3,663 tons, 8.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,108 tons, 37.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,231 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.2 %
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
60,009 lbs / 27,220 Kg = 29.3 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 9.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 18.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.93
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.531 / 0.536
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Forward deck: 34.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Aft deck: 37.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Quarter deck: 13.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Average freeboard: 19.27 ft / 5.87 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.2 %
Waterplane Area: 56,271 Square feet or 5,228 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 212 lbs/sq ft or 1,036 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.19
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

75t for three aircraft carried


Note that this ship does not follow German characteristics when it comes to speed - most German BCs have at least 30 knots design speed, this one has 28. However, it is a necessary sacrifice to get the artillery on it.


The Chinese battlecruiser export design:

Quote:
China,Battlecruiser, Germany Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
38,854 t light; 40,642 t standard; 42,987 t normal; 44,862 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(864.67 ft / 820.21 ft) x 98.43 ft x (34.45 / 35.58 ft)
(263.55 m / 250.00 m) x 30.00 m x (10.50 / 10.84 m)

Armament:
8 - 16.00" / 406 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,065.46lbs / 936.88kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
1 x Twin mount on centreline forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 39.0 cal guns - 30.52lbs / 13.84kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
36 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x 2 row sextuple mounts on side ends, majority forward
2 raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 16,946 lbs / 7,687 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 24.0" / 610 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 7.00" / 178 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 129,766 shp / 96,805 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 7,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,220 tons

Complement:
1,492 - 1,940

Cost:
£11.545 million / $46.179 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,771 tons, 6.4 %
Armour: 16,249 tons, 37.8 %
- Belts: 5,283 tons, 12.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,152 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 2,872 tons, 6.7 %
- Armour Deck: 6,730 tons, 15.7 %
- Conning Tower: 212 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,213 tons, 9.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,546 tons, 36.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,133 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.2 %
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
61,401 lbs / 27,851 Kg = 30.0 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 9.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 18.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.89
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.541 / 0.547
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Forward deck: 34.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Aft deck: 37.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Quarter deck: 13.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Average freeboard: 22.55 ft / 6.87 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.8 %
Waterplane Area: 58,151 Square feet or 5,402 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 197 lbs/sq ft or 962 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

75t for three aircraft carried


Note that this ship does not have superheavy shells, in favor of 30 knots designed speed.


Export battleship for Spain and Gran Colombia

Quote:
Export, Germany Battleship laid down 1925 (Engine 1926)

Displacement:
37,453 t light; 40,016 t standard; 42,780 t normal; 44,991 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(695.12 ft / 656.17 ft) x 108.27 ft x (36.09 / 37.60 ft)
(211.87 m / 200.00 m) x 33.00 m x (11.00 / 11.46 m)

Armament:
8 - 18.00" / 457 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3,900.00lbs / 1,769.01kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
1 x Twin mount on centreline forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 59.33lbs / 26.91kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides amidships
36 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 22.0 cal guns - 0.22lbs / 0.10kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x 2 row sextuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 31,967 lbs / 14,500 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 330.00 ft / 100.58 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 330.00 ft / 100.58 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 24.0" / 610 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 8.00" / 203 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 2.50" / 64 mm Quarter deck: 2.50" / 64 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 49,984 shp / 37,288 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,975 tons

Complement:
1,486 - 1,933

Cost:
£12.405 million / $49.621 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,805 tons, 8.9 %
Armour: 15,743 tons, 36.8 %
- Belts: 4,465 tons, 10.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 916 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 3,272 tons, 7.6 %
- Armour Deck: 6,879 tons, 16.1 %
- Conning Tower: 211 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,600 tons, 3.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,230 tons, 37.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,327 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.2 %
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
57,611 lbs / 26,132 Kg = 19.8 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 10.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.90
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.584 / 0.589
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 34.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 37.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 13.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.82 ft / 5.13 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.6 %
Waterplane Area: 51,186 Square feet or 4,755 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 251 lbs/sq ft or 1,224 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.76
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

75t for three aircraft carried



The heavy cruiser class I have currently fitting out (4 ships):

Quote:
Blücher replacement, Germany Heavy Cruiser laid down 1926 (Engine 1927)

Displacement:
19,833 t light; 20,818 t standard; 24,307 t normal; 27,099 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(748.68 ft / 721.78 ft) x 75.46 ft x (29.53 / 32.05 ft)
(228.20 m / 220.00 m) x 23.00 m x (9.00 / 9.77 m)

Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 52.0 cal guns - 715.22lbs / 324.42kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 39.0 cal guns - 30.52lbs / 13.84kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1,250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 22.0 cal guns - 0.22lbs / 0.10kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
4 x 2 row sextuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,141 lbs / 2,785 kg
12 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m torpedoes - 1.558 t each, 18.701 t total
In 4 sets of submerged side tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 460.00 ft / 140.21 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 460.00 ft / 140.21 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 4.00" / 102 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 7.00" / 178 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 106,599 shp / 79,523 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,281 tons

Complement:
973 - 1,265

Cost:
£6.288 million / $25.151 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,310 tons, 5.4 %
- Guns: 1,291 tons, 5.3 %
- Torpedoes: 19 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 6,904 tons, 28.4 %
- Belts: 2,522 tons, 10.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 681 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 1,079 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 2,496 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Tower: 127 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 3,365 tons, 13.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,204 tons, 33.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,474 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.2 %
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,737 lbs / 15,303 Kg = 50.4 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 4.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.91
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.529 / 0.543
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Average freeboard: 22.37 ft / 6.82 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.0 %
Waterplane Area: 38,785 Square feet or 3,603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 700 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.32
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

50t for 2 aircraft carried



The Bismarck class, currently in service:

Quote:
, Germany Battleship laid down 1923 (Engine 1924)

Displacement:
47,578 t light; 50,799 t standard; 57,443 t normal; 62,759 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(686.69 ft / 656.17 ft) x 124.67 ft x (36.09 / 38.98 ft)
(209.30 m / 200.00 m) x 38.00 m x (11.00 / 11.88 m)

Armament:
10 - 18.00" / 457 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3,900.00lbs / 1,769.01kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Quad mount on centreline, forward deck aft
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 39.0 cal guns - 102.99lbs / 46.72kg shells, 120 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1923 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
16 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm 39.0 cal guns - 19.83lbs / 8.99kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 39.0 cal guns - 1.86lbs / 0.84kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 22.0 cal guns - 0.22lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
8 x 2 row sextuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 40,608 lbs / 18,420 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 300.00 ft / 91.44 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 70 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.00" / 102 mm 300.00 ft / 91.44 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 24.0" / 610 mm 11.0" / 279 mm 16.0" / 406 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck: 8.00" / 203 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3.50" / 89 mm Quarter deck: 3.50" / 89 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 16.00" / 406 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 63,168 shp / 47,123 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 20,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 11,960 tons

Complement:
1,854 - 2,411

Cost:
£13.904 million / $55.617 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,796 tons, 8.3 %
Armour: 19,477 tons, 33.9 %
- Belts: 4,359 tons, 7.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,110 tons, 1.9 %
- Armament: 4,899 tons, 8.5 %
- Armour Deck: 8,597 tons, 15.0 %
- Conning Tower: 513 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,081 tons, 3.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 21,149 tons, 36.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9,865 tons, 17.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.1 %
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
97,002 lbs / 43,999 Kg = 33.3 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 17.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 11.0 ft / 3.4 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.681 / 0.689
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Average freeboard: 22.78 ft / 6.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.2 %
Waterplane Area: 64,460 Square feet or 5,989 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 266 lbs/sq ft or 1,298 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.16
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

75t for 3 aircraft carried


Note that this class still has a casemate secondary armament that is not DP. It is the last German BB to do so.


And the refits:


Quote:
Österreich, Germany Schlachtschiff laid down 1920

Displacement:
42,154 t light; 44,666 t standard; 46,325 t normal; 47,652 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(764.87 ft / 721.78 ft) x 118.11 ft x (36.09 / 36.89 ft)
(233.13 m / 220.00 m) x 36.00 m x (11.00 / 11.24 m)

Armament:
10 - 16.50" / 419 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,866.01lbs / 1,300.00kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model
2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 59.33lbs / 26.91kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 22.0 cal guns - 0.22lbs / 0.10kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 29,425 lbs / 13,347 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 355.00 ft / 108.20 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 76 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.70" / 69 mm 355.00 ft / 108.20 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 26.0" / 660 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 16.0" / 406 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 8.00" / 203 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 50,512 shp / 37,682 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,986 tons

Complement:
1,578 - 2,052

Cost:
£9.205 million / $36.819 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,789 tons, 8.2 %
Armour: 17,958 tons, 38.8 %
- Belts: 4,783 tons, 10.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 887 tons, 1.9 %
- Armament: 4,388 tons, 9.5 %
- Armour Deck: 7,679 tons, 16.6 %
- Conning Tower: 222 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,766 tons, 3.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,566 tons, 40.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,171 tons, 9.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.2 %
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
80,139 lbs / 36,350 Kg = 35.7 x 16.5 " / 419 mm shells or 14.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 9.0 ft / 2.7 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.527 / 0.530
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 34.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Aft deck: 37.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarter deck: 13.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 21.75 ft / 6.63 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.9 %
Waterplane Area: 58,231 Square feet or 5,410 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 248 lbs/sq ft or 1,209 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.88
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

75 kt for three aircraft carried



Quote:
Ziethen, Germany Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1922

Displacement:
51,798 t light; 54,352 t standard; 58,447 t normal; 61,723 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(899.68 ft / 853.02 ft) x 124.67 ft x (36.09 / 37.66 ft)
(274.22 m / 260.00 m) x 38.00 m x (11.00 / 11.48 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,700.00lbs / 1,224.70kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 59.33lbs / 26.91kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 39.0 cal guns - 30.52lbs / 13.84kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides amidships
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 22.0 cal guns - 0.22lbs / 0.10kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
8 x 2 row sextuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 25,314 lbs / 11,482 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 465.00 ft / 141.73 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 465.00 ft / 141.73 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 26.0" / 660 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 16.0" / 406 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 7.00" / 178 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 179,948 shp / 134,241 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,371 tons

Complement:
1,879 - 2,443

Cost:
£13.008 million / $52.032 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,737 tons, 6.4 %
Armour: 19,876 tons, 34.0 %
- Belts: 5,311 tons, 9.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,548 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 4,195 tons, 7.2 %
- Armour Deck: 8,562 tons, 14.6 %
- Conning Tower: 260 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 6,104 tons, 10.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 22,006 tons, 37.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,649 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.1 %
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
85,893 lbs / 38,960 Kg = 41.9 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 14.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 9.4 ft / 2.9 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.533 / 0.539
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.84 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.21 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 32.15 ft / 9.80 m, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
- Forward deck: 34.00 %, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
- Aft deck: 37.00 %, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarter deck: 13.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 23.76 ft / 7.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.9 %
Waterplane Area: 73,048 Square feet or 6,786 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 234 lbs/sq ft or 1,142 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.35
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

75kt for three aircraft carried



Quote:
Einheit,Klasse, Germany Schlachtschiff laid down 1923

Displacement:
49,965 t light; 53,388 t standard; 56,830 t normal; 59,584 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(767.62 ft / 721.78 ft) x 118.11 ft (Bulges 123.36 ft) x (36.09 / 37.61 ft)
(233.97 m / 220.00 m) x 36.00 m (Bulges 37.60 m) x (11.00 / 11.46 m)

Armament:
14 - 16.50" / 419 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,866.01lbs / 1,300.00kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 59.33lbs / 26.91kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 39.0 cal guns - 30.52lbs / 13.84kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides amidships
36 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 800 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
18 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
8 x 2 row sextuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 41,760 lbs / 18,942 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 375.00 ft / 114.30 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 80 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.70" / 69 mm 375.00 ft / 114.30 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 26.0" / 660 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 16.0" / 406 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 7.00" / 178 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 59,201 shp / 44,164 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,196 tons

Complement:
1,839 - 2,392

Cost:
£14.875 million / $59.501 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5,441 tons, 9.6 %
Armour: 19,939 tons, 35.1 %
- Belts: 5,029 tons, 8.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 937 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 6,382 tons, 11.2 %
- Armour Deck: 7,337 tons, 12.9 %
- Conning Tower: 255 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,979 tons, 3.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 22,532 tons, 39.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,865 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.1 %
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
85,629 lbs / 38,841 Kg = 38.1 x 16.5 " / 419 mm shells or 14.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 8.3 ft / 2.5 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.99
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.619 / 0.623
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 31.17 ft / 9.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 34.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Aft deck: 37.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Quarter deck: 13.00 %, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Average freeboard: 23.39 ft / 7.13 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.4 %
Waterplane Area: 63,464 Square feet or 5,896 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 277 lbs/sq ft or 1,351 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

75t for 3 aircraft carried


Quote:
L20alpha,,Klasse, Germany Schlachtschiff laid down 1920

Displacement:
44,679 t light; 47,667 t standard; 49,402 t normal; 50,789 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(764.87 ft / 721.78 ft) x 118.11 ft x (36.09 / 36.90 ft)
(233.13 m / 220.00 m) x 36.00 m x (11.00 / 11.25 m)

Armament:
12 - 16.50" / 419 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,866.01lbs / 1,300.00kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 59.33lbs / 26.91kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 39.0 cal guns - 30.52lbs / 13.84kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides amidships
36 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 800 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
18 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
8 x 2 row sextuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 36,028 lbs / 16,342 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 353.00 ft / 107.59 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 75 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.70" / 69 mm 353.00 ft / 107.59 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 26.0" / 660 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 16.0" / 406 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 6.00" / 152 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 53,091 shp / 39,606 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,122 tons

Complement:
1,656 - 2,153

Cost:
£10.610 million / $42.441 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,715 tons, 9.5 %
Armour: 17,759 tons, 35.9 %
- Belts: 4,781 tons, 9.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 882 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 5,857 tons, 11.9 %
- Armour Deck: 6,007 tons, 12.2 %
- Conning Tower: 232 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,856 tons, 3.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 20,274 tons, 41.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,723 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.2 %
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
74,923 lbs / 33,985 Kg = 33.4 x 16.5 " / 419 mm shells or 12.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 17.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.562 / 0.565
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Forward deck: 34.00 %, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Aft deck: 37.00 %, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Quarter deck: 13.00 %, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Average freeboard: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.7 %
Waterplane Area: 60,169 Square feet or 5,590 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 263 lbs/sq ft or 1,286 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.87
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

75 kt for three aircraft carried



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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-14 04:59pm
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Thanas wrote:
Alright, here are the new ships that Germany currently has fitting out:



Hmm. I see that in the German ships where you put superheavy shells on the additional tonnage was covered by increasing the block coefficient of the design. That is not feasible. The draught of the design has remained unchanged and so has the form of the hull. So the block coefficient could not change.

The two alternatives sans major reconstruction would be either bulging or increasing draught (along with decreasing freeboard)

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-14 08:30pm
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Lascaris wrote:
Thanas wrote:
Alright, here are the new ships that Germany currently has fitting out:



Hmm. I see that in the German ships where you put superheavy shells on the additional tonnage was covered by increasing the block coefficient of the design. That is not feasible. The draught of the design has remained unchanged and so has the form of the hull. So the block coefficient could not change.


I do not think that is a valid criticism. The US ships fired superheavy shells without increasing their block coefficients, I consider my refits to be made in the same manner. The british ships that underwent reconstruction also added a lot of weight without adding additional bulges or draft. In many case, their added weight also exceeded the percentage of weight I am slapping on. For example, Renown had her whole belt armor weight increased by a third during her refits. And it is not as if the layout of the ship changes (well, except for the turret layouts and armor hoists).



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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 02:49am
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My concept for light (RL treaty/heavy) cruiser for 1927, modified a bit:

Quote:
Seattle, Cascadia Cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
10,022 t light; 10,506 t standard; 11,878 t normal; 12,976 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(627.27 ft / 615.00 ft) x 65.00 ft x (20.00 / 21.36 ft)
(191.19 m / 187.45 m) x 19.81 m x (6.10 / 6.51 m)

Armament:
9 - 8.00" / 203 mm 55.0 cal guns - 260.00lbs / 117.93kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 25.0 cal guns - 55.00lbs / 24.95kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.87lbs / 0.85kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
4 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.53lbs / 0.24kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,818 lbs / 1,278 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m torpedoes - 1.567 t each, 3.135 t total
In 3 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
2nd Torpedoes
12 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m torpedoes - 1.567 t each, 18.809 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted reloads

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.50" / 114 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 10.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.50" / 64 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.50" / 38 mm, Aft 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 86,800 shp / 64,753 Kw = 32.50 kts
Range 7,500nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,469 tons

Complement:
568 - 739

Cost:
£3.760 million / $15.040 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 765 tons, 6.4 %
- Guns: 738 tons, 6.2 %
- Weapons: 27 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 2,020 tons, 17.0 %
- Belts: 777 tons, 6.5 %
- Armament: 240 tons, 2.0 %
- Armour Deck: 980 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Towers: 22 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,740 tons, 23.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,425 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,857 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 72 tons, 0.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 72 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,206 lbs / 6,897 Kg = 59.4 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.532
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 19.72 ft / 6.01 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.4 %
Waterplane Area: 28,224 Square feet or 2,622 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 558 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

2 Scout Aircraft Included


I cut the range and speed... but of course the former means it'll still cost much the same. I am starting to wonder if we should've rated costs at full or normal tonnage instead. :|

Anyway, the big issue remains that Cascadia would use lightweight engines for this ship to make it faster, 33 or so knots instead, but of course SpringSharp's engine weight slider is non-functional. :?



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"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 03:20am
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16" armor for a barbette for a ship with 18"/45 guns? That... won't stop a 18"/45 shell, never mind a superheavy 3300lb or 3900lb.



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 09:54am
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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
16" armor for a barbette for a ship with 18"/45 guns? That... won't stop a 18"/45 shell, never mind a superheavy 3300lb or 3900lb.


An 18"/45 shell it will stop at the angles it is expected to hit the barbette. A superheavy 3300 probably as well, but not a 3900, in that you are correct. Keep in mind that hits on the barbette are not going to happen at the usual angles.

That said, the ships are built to resist british fire and at the time they were built the brits only fielded 16". The superceding Imperator and Scharnhorst classes are all more heavily built.



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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 09:58am
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Thanas wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
16" armor for a barbette for a ship with 18"/45 guns? That... won't stop a 18"/45 shell, never mind a superheavy 3300lb or 3900lb.


An 18"/45 shell it will stop at the angles it is expected to hit the barbette. A superheavy 3300 probably as well, but not a 3900, in that you are correct. Keep in mind that hits on the barbette are not going to happen at the usual angles.

That said, the ships are built to resist british fire and at the time they were built the brits only fielded 16". The superceding Imperator and Scharnhorst classes are all more heavily built.

The trouble is the Barbette armor is curved. That weakens it. I would place the ball park thickness required to be comparable to the shell size.

But I guess if you were planning to fight 16"/50 guns than it's fine. I generally design my ships to resist at the minimum its own shells.



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 10:06am
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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
The trouble is the Barbette armor is curved. That weakens it. I would place the ball park thickness required to be comparable to the shell size.

But I guess if you were planning to fight 16"/50 guns than it's fine. I generally design my ships to resist at the minimum its own shells.


Curved, yes. However note that the Iowa class BB barbettes also only had a medium barbette rating of 16", so I feel quite comfortable with it. The front of the Barbettes is therefore 18"+, the back of course is only 14-15".

As for resisting their own shells, true, but remember that superheavy shells only became a serious option when research started in full in 1925. The ammunition hoists could still be changed as they were not fitted yet, but it would be unrealistic to change the whole design. After all, I try at least to be semi-realistic.

Of course, there might be a refit later on, belting some additional barbette armor on. By my count it would only take around 500 more lbs of armor, so that is well manageable by switching out the 6" secondaries with 5"/38, which should save equivalent weight.

However, a refit is not doable at the moment because it would mean my battleline would be composed of only six ships of the first rank.



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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 03:26pm
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Thanas wrote:
Lascaris wrote:
Thanas wrote:
Alright, here are the new ships that Germany currently has fitting out:



Hmm. I see that in the German ships where you put superheavy shells on the additional tonnage was covered by increasing the block coefficient of the design. That is not feasible. The draught of the design has remained unchanged and so has the form of the hull. So the block coefficient could not change.


I do not think that is a valid criticism. The US ships fired superheavy shells without increasing their block coefficients, I consider my refits to be made in the same manner. The british ships that underwent reconstruction also added a lot of weight without adding additional bulges or draft. In many case, their added weight also exceeded the percentage of weight I am slapping on. For example, Renown had her whole belt armor weight increased by a third during her refits. And it is not as if the layout of the ship changes (well, except for the turret layouts and armor hoists).


It's simple math when it comes down to it. The block coefficient is supposed to be the volume of water displaced by the hull divided by beam, draft and p/p length. For the block coefficient to change at least one of the above has to change. In your case none is supposed to have changed. So how did the block coefficient change then?

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 03:30pm
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So tell me - what other way is there to simulate added weight in Springsharp, using real life ship switches from heavy to superheavy shells?



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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 03:48pm
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I just put in the desired magazine in superheavies and calculate from there.



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"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 03:50pm
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Steve wrote:
I just put in the desired magazine in superheavies and calculate from there.



Eh....what?



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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 03:58pm
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EDIT: *snip bad idea*

Actually, that doesn't work at all. Nevermind me.



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 04:46pm
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When looking at the ship design, I just put in the new superheavy shell weight in the shell weight area, then start reducing the number of shells until Composite Strength returns to 1.0, letting me know how much the existing magazines can hold.

I'm not entirely sure how a rebuild of the ship to accommodate the larger magazines would work. It sounds like it'd involve dismantling the vessel and rebuilding it to widen the beam and fatten it below the waterline, and that sounds really expensive and time-consuming.



”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 04:53pm
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Steve wrote:
When looking at the ship design, I just put in the new superheavy shell weight in the shell weight area, then start reducing the number of shells until Composite Strength returns to 1.0, letting me know how much the existing magazines can hold.



That does not work and produces unrealistic results. For example, I just tried that and turns out that apparently, it would mean that the magazine capacity plummets from 90 2200lbs shells to 10 2700 shells. No way.



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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 04:57pm
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Thanas wrote:
Steve wrote:
When looking at the ship design, I just put in the new superheavy shell weight in the shell weight area, then start reducing the number of shells until Composite Strength returns to 1.0, letting me know how much the existing magazines can hold.



That does not work and produces unrealistic results. For example, I just tried that and turns out that apparently, it would mean that the magazine capacity plummets from 90 to 10 shells. No way.

I did it on my attempt to create a SoDak in SpringSharp (I say attempt because I just couldn't give it the dimensions and displacement as listed) and I upgraded from 1920 to 1927 engines (probably rather pricey admittedly), swapped the 6"/53s for 5"/38s and deleted the 3" guns entirely. I went from around 150 shells to 87. Steve says that's a 2 year project.

I have no idea how feasible it'd be. Or if it's even worth it. But that's how I convinced SpringSharp to let me do things.



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The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 05:24pm
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Alright, here is my compromise solution:

- allow using the block coefficient to get the structural indicator to 1.00
- take the number of shells before superheavy shells, multiply it by shell weight.
- Divide this number with the new shell weight
- Use that number as new maximum number of shells carried by gun.



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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 05:28pm
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Thanas wrote:
Steve wrote:
When looking at the ship design, I just put in the new superheavy shell weight in the shell weight area, then start reducing the number of shells until Composite Strength returns to 1.0, letting me know how much the existing magazines can hold.



That does not work and produces unrealistic results. For example, I just tried that and turns out that apparently, it would mean that the magazine capacity plummets from 90 2200lbs shells to 10 2700 shells. No way.


Hrm. :?



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 05:32pm
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Thanas wrote:
So tell me - what other way is there to simulate added weight in Springsharp, using real life ship switches from heavy to superheavy shells?


Did anyone actually try this in real life? Not the US as far as I can tell.

To tell the truth the more I look into this the more it looks as if it would require a pretty major reconstruction to achieve. Getting the additional tonnage may well be the easier part.

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 05:37pm
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Steve wrote:
Thanas wrote:
Steve wrote:
When looking at the ship design, I just put in the new superheavy shell weight in the shell weight area, then start reducing the number of shells until Composite Strength returns to 1.0, letting me know how much the existing magazines can hold.



That does not work and produces unrealistic results. For example, I just tried that and turns out that apparently, it would mean that the magazine capacity plummets from 90 2200lbs shells to 10 2700 shells. No way.


Hrm. :?


Thanas is right there. What I find interesting is that the actual gun and magazine weights remain nearly the same, magazine weight changes slightly everything else remains unchanged, even though the composite strength plummets.

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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 05:38pm
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Lascaris wrote:
Thanas wrote:
So tell me - what other way is there to simulate added weight in Springsharp, using real life ship switches from heavy to superheavy shells?


Did anyone actually try this in real life? Not the US as far as I can tell.

To tell the truth the more I look into this the more it looks as if it would require a pretty major reconstruction to achieve. Getting the additional tonnage may well be the easier part.


Given that apparently the only thing holding back the older US BBs from firing the superheavy shells was that the ammo hoists could not handle it and nobody wanted to produce new turrets, I doubt it.



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 11:40pm
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Lascaris wrote:
Thanas is right there. What I find interesting is that the actual gun and magazine weights remain nearly the same, magazine weight changes slightly everything else remains unchanged, even though the composite strength plummets.


Because it is changing your cross-sectional strength based on the increased recoil factor, the reduced shell load allows for more (relative) structural work at the same weight factor. That would at least be my guess.

Anyway this might work, (well it physically works but everyone would have to okay it):

1) Lock in the block co-efficient
2) Go to the engines tab and press "Lock Power"
3) Increase draft by "x" feet/meters (<1 ft should be plenty)
4) Decrease freeboard by "x" feet/meters
5) Increase shell weight
6) Go back to the engines tab and Recalc speed
7) Adjust number of shells as needed

I tried this with my Majestuoso class jumping the shell weight from 3000 to 3500 and only had to go from 100 shells to 75 shells after losing .5 feet of freeboard (and about .10 of seakeeping). Anyway this should sim just replacing the shells, doing no structural work and suffering a speed loss due to the increased strain on the existing engines. The reason you have to Lock the HP is otherwise SS upgrades your engines to the horespower needed to move the extra weight at the design speed.

If you have a ship that doesn't need trim or other adjustments for seakeeping then the above change represents a pretty simple switch out that really would involve mostly just the hoists and magazine storage systems, it could probably be done in a 3 month refit. (For the Majestuoso it adds ~1,000 t to the normal Displacement or roughly 1 IBP)

Anyway that would be my idea.

This should simulate overloading the ship's weight and will allow you to carry the same overall load but you lose seakeeping ability.



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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-15 11:40pm
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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread PostPosted: 2010-03-16 04:25pm
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Okay, I did a few experiments with Springsharp. Way I see it, there are three options here:

a) Use something similar as in the OTL refits and accept that springsharp just has its limitations. It appears that BBs of that time had a strength reserve of about 10% overloarding, as evidenced by renown going from 6-9" side armor after Jutland and later having an additional 500t armor slapped on. Note that this was before it underwent the major refit, so no weight savings were made there.

In that case, I would suggest using the block-coefficient to simply adjust for that. All of my refits are well in the +10% weight category anyway, so that should be no problem.


b) Go the bulging route as suggested by Lascaris. It too adds about the 10% weight. Coincidentally, it also dramatically increases the protection of the ship, especially against torpedo attack. Generally, I have to add about 2-2,5m bulges to each side of the ships. To be honest, I would favor this route now due to the more benefits I get due to my ships being way better protected.


c) Use block coefficient as in example a and adjust magazine weight to superheavy shells. In this case, that would mean magazine capacity decreasing from 90 to 68-70 shells, depending on caliber.



So mods, that is my question to you, how to proceed. Obviously I would now favor option b) as proposed by Lascaris, due to it resulting in far stronger ships, but that is just me and my militaristic side. :)



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