SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread

[Thanas]

I'm likely to convert one of the 4-5 50,000tonne new battleships into a carrier. Are there any particular objections? I will post the specs for the battleship if required.

The specs would be nice...and a 50kt carrier? Aren't you better off by just using that yardspace for two 25.000t carriers?

[K. A. Pital]

That hardly makes any sense. Battleships of the era are slow, and carrier converts out of them are slow likewise (see Bearn, et cetera) unless specially provided for greater speed. Converting battleships to carriers is only a means of getting ships easier than building from ground up, not the preferred outcome of course. While a 50,000 ton battleship would have similar dimensions to a 35-40 ton fast cruiser, clearly converting the latter would be more viable.

In essence, I agree fully with what Thanas said.

No, I recreated the designs in Springsharp to get standard tonnage. Keep in mind that there are 2 extra Bayern class, 2 Ersatz Yorck to that. And there are always heavy cruisers, submarines, light cruisers et al who all count toward the limit. Plus, construction includes 300.000 for new ships that are still fitting out, but were launched in 1923/4.

Oh. I just went with the German Imperial Navy c.1918 technical manual. Yeah, that slightly changes things. 300,000 for new ships, yeah... forgot about that. I'm not expecting much major fleet construction in my nation during these 5 years, hence the wonder

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I'm likely to convert one of the 4-5 50,000tonne new battleships into a carrier. Are there any particular objections? I will post the specs for the battleship if required.

The specs would be nice...and a 50kt carrier? Aren't you better off by just using that yardspace for two 25.000t carriers?

Well, I was thinking of a Lexington type carrier which were actually based off a battlecruiser and were capable of 33.5knots.

Here are the rough tentative specs:

Proto Battleship, Byzantium Battleship laid down 1924

Displacement:
47,320 t light; 49,775 t standard; 53,921 t normal; 57,238 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(892.40 ft / 869.42 ft) x 108.27 ft x (34.45 / 36.09 ft)
(272.00 m / 265.00 m) x 33.00 m x (10.50 / 11.00 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,168.09lbs / 983.43kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92lbs / 49.41kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1924 Model
16 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm 25.0 cal guns - 56.77lbs / 25.75kg shells, 500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 600 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
8 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
Weight of broadside 22,172 lbs / 10,057 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 570.00 ft / 173.74 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
5.00" / 127 mm 410.00 ft / 124.97 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 15.0" / 381 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 5.00" / 127 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 4.00" / 102 mm Quarter deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 149,727 shp / 111,696 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,463 tons

Complement:
1,769 - 2,300

Cost:
£13.908 million / $55.631 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,619 tons, 8.6 %
Armour: 19,673 tons, 36.5 %
- Belts: 6,522 tons, 12.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,048 tons, 3.8 %
- Armament: 4,459 tons, 8.3 %
- Armour Deck: 6,305 tons, 11.7 %
- Conning Tower: 338 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,932 tons, 9.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,005 tons, 33.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,601 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 92 tons, 0.2 %
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 72 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
70,201 lbs / 31,843 Kg = 34.3 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 11.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 19.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.582 / 0.590
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.03 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.93 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 24.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 17.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.17 ft / 6.45 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.5 %
Waterplane Area: 70,526 Square feet or 6,552 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 211 lbs/sq ft or 1,030 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.03
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[K. A. Pital]

The Lexington is displacing far less for the same deck length. Think about it. The deck is very important for storing planes in this era. In fact, in case of a major war there'd be deck stuffed with planes to the extreme. So what's best, 2x270 m long decks for 38,000 tons each, or 1x 280 m long deck for 50,000 tons?

[Ryan Thunder]

EDIOT: sorry

[Thanas]

You really should increase your deck armor on that ship.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

You really should increase your deck armor on that ship.

Getting more speed while ensuring the turret/barbette armor is thick as hell is going to be a real juggle. I have to cut speed down to 28knots just to squeeze a couple more inches.

Designing a ship in the 1930s with similar specs is hell a lot easier for one thing.

[Thanas]

Cut down gun power by one inch and you should be fine.

[Steve]

Well, as I said, the problem is that the program overrates engine weight and thus horsepower. Also keep in mind that, heh, you shouldn't exceed 52,000hp per shaft (and 4 shafts is the general rule for ships - anymore complicates machinery and forces widening the beam) as that is the limit of this era's technology.

As stated, we'll just assume everyone has turbo-electric drive.

[Thanas]

Well, as I said, the problem is that the program overrates engine weight and thus horsepower. Also keep in mind that, heh, you shouldn't exceed 52,000hp per shaft (and 4 shafts is the general rule for ships - anymore complicates machinery and forces widening the beam) as that is the limit of this era's technology.

I do not think we should suddenly start going "well, the program overrates this and therefore you can have Y" unless someone comes up with a formula for that. Because I did not go through a lot of trouble to make my ships fit if springsharp suddenly does not matter anymore.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

After a considerable bit of tweaking and cutting the barrel length to 45 cal and making several compromises, this is the result:

Proto Battleship, Byzantium Battleship laid down 1922

Displacement:
47,397 t light; 49,957 t standard; 53,577 t normal; 56,473 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(892.40 ft / 869.42 ft) x 108.27 ft x (36.09 / 37.57 ft)
(272.00 m / 265.00 m) x 33.00 m x (11.00 / 11.45 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,065.46lbs / 936.88kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92lbs / 49.41kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1922 Model
16 x 2-gun mounts on sides amidships
8 raised mounts
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 25.0 cal guns - 56.77lbs / 25.75kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, majority aft
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 600 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
8 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
Weight of broadside 20,795 lbs / 9,432 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 570.00 ft / 173.74 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
5.00" / 127 mm 410.00 ft / 124.97 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 15.0" / 381 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
3rd: 5.00" / 127 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 3.00" / 76 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 7.00" / 178 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 4.00" / 102 mm Quarter deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 114,088 shp / 85,110 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,516 tons

Complement:
1,760 - 2,289

Cost:
£11.022 million / $44.088 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,997 tons, 7.5 %
Armour: 21,603 tons, 40.3 %
- Belts: 6,504 tons, 12.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,048 tons, 3.8 %
- Armament: 4,558 tons, 8.5 %
- Armour Deck: 8,157 tons, 15.2 %
- Conning Tower: 337 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 3,870 tons, 7.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,835 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,180 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 92 tons, 0.2 %
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 72 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
82,192 lbs / 37,282 Kg = 40.1 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 15.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 19.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.552 / 0.559
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.03 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 34.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 24.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 17.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.17 ft / 6.45 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.0 %
Waterplane Area: 68,523 Square feet or 6,366 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1,020 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.11
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Steve]

Well, as I said, the problem is that the program overrates engine weight and thus horsepower. Also keep in mind that, heh, you shouldn't exceed 52,000hp per shaft (and 4 shafts is the general rule for ships - anymore complicates machinery and forces widening the beam) as that is the limit of this era's technology.

I do not think we should suddenly start going "well, the program overrates this and therefore you can have Y" unless someone comes up with a formula for that. Because I did not go through a lot of trouble to make my ships fit if springsharp suddenly does not matter anymore.

It does matter, but.... aw fuck it, I'll just rule that if your design exceeds the era's hp per shaft power capability our tech is slightly higher in that regard. I guess. Though I may end up being stabbed by my naval enthusiast advisor again over that.... She's wicked with that slide rule, I tell you....

[Steve]

My 1923 classes, a dreadnought and a fast battleship, 50,000T standard (Yes, I literally went to the 5th digit in block coefficient to get 50,000 exact, at least on the fast BB).

Sovereign, Cascadian Dreadnought, laid down 1923

Displacement:
47,118 t light; 49,970 t standard; 53,493 t normal; 56,312 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(849.58 ft / 830.00 ft) x 106.00 ft x (32.80 / 34.27 ft)
(258.95 m / 252.98 m) x 32.31 m x (10.00 / 10.44 m)

Armament:
12 - 16.00" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,240.01lbs / 1,016.05kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 66.16lbs / 30.01kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.87lbs / 0.85kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
5 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
2 raised mounts
5 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 28,014 lbs / 12,707 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 17.0" / 432 mm 410.00 ft / 124.97 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 76 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
4.00" / 102 mm 450.00 ft / 137.16 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 86.00 ft / 26.21 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 13.5" / 343 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 9.00" / 229 mm
Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 16.00" / 406 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 70,000 shp / 52,220 Kw = 23.52 kts
Range 9,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,342 tons

Complement:
1,758 - 2,286

Cost:
£13.764 million / $55.054 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5,902 tons, 11.0 %
- Guns: 5,902 tons, 11.0 %
Armour: 20,983 tons, 39.2 %
- Belts: 4,721 tons, 8.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,998 tons, 3.7 %
- Armament: 4,032 tons, 7.5 %
- Armour Deck: 9,652 tons, 18.0 %
- Conning Towers: 581 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 2,340 tons, 4.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,830 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,376 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 64 tons, 0.1 %
- Hull above water: 14 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
75,543 lbs / 34,266 Kg = 36.9 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 13.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.92
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.649 / 0.654
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.83 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 19.99 ft / 6.09 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.7 %
Waterplane Area: 67,324 Square feet or 6,255 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 225 lbs/sq ft or 1,097 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.01
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Defiant-class, Cascadian Fast Battleship, laid down 1923

Displacement:
47,548 t light; 50,000 t standard; 54,045 t normal; 57,282 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(875.64 ft / 865.00 ft) x 105.00 ft x (32.30 / 33.89 ft)
(266.90 m / 263.65 m) x 32.00 m x (9.85 / 10.33 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,240.00lbs / 1,016.05kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
10 - 5.00" / 127 mm 43.0 cal guns - 61.05lbs / 27.69kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
5 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.87lbs / 0.85kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 20,830 lbs / 9,449 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 508.00 ft / 154.84 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 10.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
4.00" / 102 mm 508.00 ft / 154.84 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.00 ft / 26.82 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm - 3.00" / 76 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.25" / 159 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 200,000 shp / 149,200 Kw = 31.62 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,282 tons

Complement:
1,771 - 2,303

Cost:
£13.614 million / $54.454 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,434 tons, 8.2 %
- Guns: 4,434 tons, 8.2 %
Armour: 17,652 tons, 32.7 %
- Belts: 4,290 tons, 7.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,256 tons, 4.2 %
- Armament: 4,091 tons, 7.6 %
- Armour Deck: 6,676 tons, 12.4 %
- Conning Towers: 339 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 6,685 tons, 12.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,728 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,498 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
74,074 lbs / 33,599 Kg = 36.2 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 10.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.645 / 0.651
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.24 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 25.72 ft / 7.84 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 191.0 %
Waterplane Area: 71,039 Square feet or 6,600 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1,021 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.15
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Yeah, I know Defiant is actually heavier than Sovereign, but due to being convinced that 240,000hp for the original speed I wanted was waaaay too much for the era, I lowered the speed and just went ahead and armored her better. Of course, she still has a good max speed.....

Since SpringSharp sticks me with the damned max engine weight anyway, I'm taking Marina's advice and presuming turbo-electric drive.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Is it a good idea to have Main Belt covering less than the full length of the ship?

Also, Skimmer recommended to me to have it at 18ft high at the least.

[Steve]

The main belt only needs to cover the vital spaces or so I've been told. I usually put a little more on if I can help it but I ran out of tonnage. As for height, I was simply told that before All-or-Nothing schemes the Main and Upper should together equal Freeboard + 6-8' for below waterline areas.

[Raesene]

The main belt only needs to cover the vital spaces or so I've been told. I usually put a little more on if I can help it but I ran out of tonnage. As for height, I was simply told that before All-or-Nothing schemes the Main and Upper should together equal Freeboard + 6-8' for below waterline areas.

It probably has no influence on the calculations, but shouldn't the armour belt be angled outwards (forming a V with the tip below the keel if elongated ) instead of the other way ? If you angle it inwards, wouldn't shells have an even higher probability to penetrate than for a standard belt ?

Looking at armour belts of 47cm, I have to invest more in torpedo bombers, submarines and mines

Oh, heh, didn't notice how the belt looked. I'm not sure if it should be inclided inside or out, the diagram in Springsharp shows it inclided inward. That might be how it's meant to go as it presents a better angle to a penetrating shell, but I'm not sure.

[Evincer]

Adjustment to my fleet charts. On the recommendation of Skimmer and Stas, I have reduced my MTB boats to 40 boats, used only in those limited areas where they can be deployed.

From
750 MAS Boats 1915-1918 = 22,500 tons (or about 900 55-foot Coastal Motor Boats)

I am going to 40 MAS Boats = 1,200 tons

and replacing the other MTBs with

10 Type UBII coastal submarines = 2,400 tons 2,880

10 Type UBIII coastal submarines = 5,600 tons 6,70

10 Type Mittel U submarines = 8,600 tons 10320

10 H21-class improved Holland-class submarines = 4,230

[Steve]

Disclaimer: I am fully aware this thing is dead the moment it gets near an actual battle line. I was just curious as to opinions of the design:

Lightning, Cascadian Battlecruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
37,727 t light; 39,939 t standard; 44,192 t normal; 47,593 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(830.64 ft / 820.00 ft) x 99.00 ft x (30.78 / 32.67 ft)
(253.18 m / 249.94 m) x 30.18 m x (9.38 / 9.96 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,120.01lbs / 961.62kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 43.0 cal guns - 61.05lbs / 27.69kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.87lbs / 0.85kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 19,873 lbs / 9,014 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 543.00 ft / 165.51 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 10.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.00" / 76 mm 543.00 ft / 165.51 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.00 ft / 25.91 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm - 3.00" / 76 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 4.00" / 102 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 200,000 shp / 149,201 Kw = 33.11 kts
Range 10,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,654 tons

Complement:
1,523 - 1,981

Cost:
£11.108 million / $44.431 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,890 tons, 8.8 %
- Guns: 3,890 tons, 8.8 %
Armour: 10,507 tons, 23.8 %
- Belts: 2,205 tons, 5.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,808 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 2,688 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 3,618 tons, 8.2 %
- Conning Towers: 189 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 6,784 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,496 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,464 tons, 14.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
54,527 lbs / 24,733 Kg = 26.6 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 7.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.89
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.619 / 0.628
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.28 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.75 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 25.72 ft / 7.84 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197.0 %
Waterplane Area: 63,011 Square feet or 5,854 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,006 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.31
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The ship has less armor than say.. I think a South Dakota (1939), yet somehow it's heavier.

It's times like this when I wonder how the hell Spring Sharp really works. Ideally, of course, the program would take into account inclined armor but..

[Beowulf]

The ship has less armor than say.. I think a South Dakota (1939), yet somehow it's heavier.

It's times like this when I wonder how the hell Spring Sharp really works. Ideally, of course, the program would take into account inclined armor but..

It's also 6 knots faster, and 17 years older. Both of those tend to have deleterious effects on tonnage.

[Steve]

Yeah, for fun I just raised it to 1939 to see how it'd look, I was able to cut down some tonnage and get an extra half knot or so from 200,000hp engines.

Or if kept around the same tonnage and speed, I can more than double the armor plate and add a bit of thickness to the torpedo bulkhead.

[Sea Skimmer]

Such a poorly protected large vessel makes no real sense as it is grossly over gunned for any combatant it can reasonably engage, battleline be damned. Enemy cruiser killers with 12in guns would be an enormous threat and might still sport better armor on less displacement, rather diminishing the utility of ever having mounted 16in guns. You could mount 12in weapons and still destroy the 8in ships perfectly well meanwhile. Going to much heavier weapons gobbles up so much tonnage you could just have a balanced 30knt 16in battleship instead. I'd suggest that a cruiser is a bad investment the moment you can't get two for the price of one battleship. In game points that'd mean about 20 points or so. Real life cost figures support this too, cruisers that reached much past 15,000 tons tended to quickly become almost as expensive as battleships (2/3rds of cost or so)

[Steve]

Yeah, I wasn't serious about it, I was mostly seeing how fast I could go without hitting 40,000T standard since I'm out of slips for those at this timeframe, generally (building a full run of 1920 dreadnoughts) while maintaining a kickass arsenal. Initially my more serious 1921-1922 battlecruiser design only had the same 14"/52 Vickers/Obkuhov-style guns I put on my 1916 dreadnought.

But at 33 knots I figured I'd share.

Actually, looking at the stats on Lexington as a battlecruiser, they're pretty much the same ship save that Lexington was to have even less protection, similar speed profile, and a set of 16"/50s instead of 16"/45s. She was to be heavier, too.....

[Steve]

Hrm, Skim, what do you do about the fact that a ship that's not at least 700 or so feet in length lacks the natural speed to achieve anything past 30 knots, so anything above that quickly results in a poor or bad seaboat unless you excessively raise the freeboard or generally do other things that sacrifice stability and ability to take broadside recoil?

[K. A. Pital]

Just FYI,
this link
has extensive Navy manuals for just about every World War I nation, from Europe to Asia, small or large (as well as many ship descriptions).

It's in Russian, but you can use auto translators to find out.

WWI British Navy manual: http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazin ... /index.htm
WWI German Navy manual: http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazin ... /index.htm
WWI USA and Latin American Navies: http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazin ... /index.htm
WWI Italy and Austro-Hungary manual: http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazin ... /index.htm
WWI Russian Navy manual: http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazin ... /index.htm
WWI Small European Nations: http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazin ... /index.htm
WWI Turkey, Asia, Japan: http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazin ... /index.htm
WWI France: http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazin ... /index.htm

That is a ship roster, as well as a technical instruction on ships (includes displacement, dates of construction, ultimate fate, armament and armor, et cetera).