SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread

[Slacker]

Yes, but I'd rather advise you to design a better hull or reduce the guns. Otherwise you have a large problem. The baltic does have some heavy storms and in battle I wouldn't want to be in a bad seaboat - a few hits and the situation just gets worse....

I may tweak it, but I'm not really looking to min-max my fleet. I'm waiting on your BC design and then basically I'm done, I've got 164,400 tons of warship light cruiser size or smaller. I just picked WW1-era designs for my other stuff. This is supposed to represent their first attempt to 'do it on their own', so for RP purposes it's fine if it's not an optimized design-indeed, they can always be refit during the game.

Designing my air force and army's going to be the much more involved task, they're very much the services that will keep my ass alive.

[K. A. Pital]

Well, I would have no problem with it if you give the laying down date at 1918 and rationalize it in game as "was rebuilt in 1920". I think that would be the best solution to avoid anybody else from building ships with less than 1.0 integrity.

Just a suggestion.

Also, your armor....good lord.

Just FYI - that's a real project, and that's the real armoring school of Russia 1914 (armor = 30-35% weight).

[Raj Ahten]

That all depends on what you want to do with your Navy, Raj, and how much power projection you need. I'd figure your nay is geared to challenge the Brazilian one, so your ships should naturally reflect a capability to sail the seas bordering South America and to at least match Brazilian ships in firepower and protection.

The main purpose of this navy would be neutralize the navy of any one South American nation and be able to put that nation under blockade. My planners probably worry a lot about a communist alliance forming on the continent. I intend to have a fairly heavy emphasis on mine warfare, as its a relatively cheap way to screw people over.

For ship designs at this point I'm considering going mainly with historical US designs with "Standard" type ships like the South Dakota class being my most modern ship and Nevada through Colorado classes filling out the rest of the line. From what I've seen being designed in this thread it is still competitive. I'll probably move to an 18 inch guns and huge displacement in a few years when it becomes the standard. (Or just to the Montana class.)

For other classes of ships I'm thinking of using British light cruisers (C-class, Danae class), Japanese Heavy Cruisers (Aoba and Myoko class) and American destroyers (Mostly Clemson class for now.) I'll also likely throw in a few Lexington class Battle-cruisers and a couple converted Lexington carriers as well.

On the other hand I am also interested in the ships that Thanas has been designing; perhaps I'd have bought a few or have made clones myself. They look to be very tough ships.

No matter what I end up doing I'm pretty certain I will not be making my own designs on Springsharp. I simply don't have the time.

Edit: An unrelated question for the experts here: Can I generally trust Wikipedia on ships displacement? Or are there other sources online to consult? Finally are we using short or long tons for our tonnage limits?

[Thanas]

Germany is willing to export ships to a lot of nations that do not threaten Germany, Cascadia, Spain or Italy. I will have to work out a shipyard schedule though.

At the moment I have orders for:
- 4 Bayern class updated from Siege
- Spain: ditto
- Doomriser: 2 updated Bayern class
- Slacker: 4 BCs ordered, custom design from Ersatz Yorck baseline.

[Slacker]

Well, mine would probably be mostly delivered before the game started.

[Ryan Thunder]

Code: Select all

Vendetta, Columbian battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
	69 797 t light; 74 411 t standard; 80 003 t normal; 84 476 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
	1 004.18 ft / 984.25 ft x 98.43 ft x 32.81 ft (normal load)
	306.07 m / 300.00 m x 30.00 m  x 10.00 m

Armament:
      9 - 17.72" / 450 mm guns (3 mounts), 2 780.39lbs / 1 261.16kg shells, 1925 Model
	  Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
	  on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised guns - superfiring
	  Main guns limited to end-on fire
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1925 Model
	  Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
	  on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.62lbs / 7.09kg shells, 1925 Model
	  Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts 
	  on side, all aft
      32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1925 Model
	  Machine guns in deck mounts 
	  on side, evenly spread
	Weight of broadside 26 804 lbs / 12 158 kg
	Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	13.8" / 350 mm	639.76 ft / 195.00 m	11.91 ft / 3.63 m
	Ends:	1.97" / 50 mm	344.46 ft / 104.99 m	11.91 ft / 3.63 m
	Upper:	1.97" / 50 mm	639.76 ft / 195.00 m	8.01 ft / 2.44 m
	  Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
		4.13" / 105 mm	639.76 ft / 195.00 m	32.61 ft / 9.94 m

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	17.7" / 450 mm	      -			5.91" / 150 mm
	2nd:	15.7" / 400 mm	      -			3.94" / 100 mm

   - Armour deck: 11.81" / 300 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
	Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries, 
	Electric motors, 2 shafts, 104 618 shp / 78 045 Kw = 25.00 kts
	Range 6 000nm at 20.00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 10 065 tons

Complement:
	2 378 - 3 092

Cost:
	£18.762 million / $75.048 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 3 350 tons, 4.2 %
	Armour: 32 720 tons, 40.9 %
	   - Belts: 5 138 tons, 6.4 %
	   - Torpedo bulkhead: 3 191 tons, 4.0 %
	   - Armament: 3 618 tons, 4.5 %
	   - Armour Deck: 20 694 tons, 25.9 %
	   - Conning Tower: 79 tons, 0.1 %
	Machinery: 3 397 tons, 4.2 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 30 330 tons, 37.9 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 10 206 tons, 12.8 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  145 727 lbs / 66 101 Kg = 52.4 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 27.5 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
	Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
	Roll period: 18.4 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 84 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.23
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck
	  and transom stern
	Block coefficient: 0.881
	Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 34.76 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
	Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
	   - Stem:		34.51 ft / 10.52 m
	   - Forecastle (20 %):	21.95 ft / 6.69 m
	   - Mid (50 %):		21.95 ft / 6.69 m
	   - Quarterdeck (15 %):	21.95 ft / 6.69 m
	   - Stern:		21.95 ft / 6.69 m
	   - Average freeboard:	22.95 ft / 7.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.5 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.5 %
	Waterplane Area: 94 706 Square feet or 8 798 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 243 lbs/sq ft or 1 184 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 1.33
		- Longitudinal: 0.91
		- Overall: 1.00
	Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
	Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Thanas]

Eh, no. Ryan, 50kt maximum.

[Thanas]

Well, mine would probably be mostly delivered before the game started.

True, but I have to calculate shipyard space and delivery anyway for my building schedule from 1915-1925.

[Slacker]

Ahhhh.

[Ryan Thunder]

Eh, no. Ryan, 50kt maximum.

Wait, what? Why do I supposedly have 80 kt shipyards, then?

[Ma Deuce]

Wait, what? Why do I supposedly have 80 kt shipyards, then?

That represents the total amount of warship tonnage you can have under construction at the same time, which is added to the capacity determined by your combined industry/economy score (1 point = 20,000 tons capacity, so in your case you could build 280,000 tons simultaneously). It has nothing to do with the tonnage limit on individual ships. Did you really think we were going to let people with NF 5 build 200,000 ton battleships .

[Ryan Thunder]

Wait, what? Why do I supposedly have 80 kt shipyards, then?

That represents the total amount of warship tonnage you can have under construction at the same time, which is added to the capacity determined by your combined industry/economy score (1 point = 20,000 tons capacity, so in your case you could build 280,000 tons simultaneously). It has nothing to do with the tonnage limit on individual ships. Did you really think we were going to let people with NF 5 build 200,000 ton battleships .

Well... no.

All I saw was something to the effect of "80 kt yards" and thought it meant that's how big my yards were. Oh well, my bad.

[Norade]

My dream for a 400,000 ton battleship has been ruined. xD

[Thanas]

Long live Hitler's napkinwaffen.

[Norade]

Indeed, though I wonder how long a project the 1km a side floating monstrosity the US was toying with would take to complete?

[Steve]

Actually, to further curb people attempting to throw everything into dreadnought production, I added slipway count for ships over 25,000T Standard displacement as stated in the Rule thread. Going to update the ruleset page in a moment.

I wouldn't mind exporting vessels to nations I deem friendly to myself and those nations I regard as friends and allies. And as I'm an NF of 5 you can be sure you're getting a sophisticated, technologically capable ship.

That said, I don't know if I'll design export ships myself or if I'll accept orders for ships with specific capabilities (certain amount of guns or a specific weight of broadside, for instance, speed requirements, protection, etc.)

[Ryan Thunder]

Indeed, though I wonder how long a project the 1km a side floating monstrosity the US was toying with would take to complete?

Hey, I made a 300 m battlecube, remember.

CSS Asinine ftw.

[Raj Ahten]

Thanas are you willing to have sold or let Chilatina (working name) build under liscence some of your Bismarck class vessels? I figure my naval types would be very eager to get a look at 18'' gun designs and see how they hold up with my mostly 16'' or less fleet.

I'd like to get my hands on a pair os the Bismarck's. I'm also interested in the Blucher class for its purported sheer survivability. Perhaps four of the cruisers?

[Thanas]

Thanas are you willing to have sold or let Chilatina (working name) build under liscence some of your Bismarck class vessels? I figure my naval types would be very eager to get a look at 18'' gun designs and see how they hold up with my mostly 16'' or less fleet.

At the moment the Bismarck cannot be built, nor can any other of my 60kt monsters. However, I might have a 50kt design for you tomorrow or over the weekend which will be interesting to you.

I'd like to get my hands on a pair os the Bismarck's. I'm also interested in the Blucher class for its purported sheer survivability. Perhaps four of the cruisers?

Pm me and we can work something out.

[Thanas]

Norade, any chance of getting a look at your gigante class?

[Raj Ahten]

Sorry to be bombard everyone with questions, but is there a ratio of destroyers to capital ships I should be shooting for while building my fleet? I'll probably be doing a fair amount of commerce protection locally to keep my industries running nicely but I certainly don't have commitments all over the world to deal with.

[Norade]

Gigante-class, Portuguese Battleship laid down 1920

Displacement:
46,288 t light; 49,172 t standard; 51,214 t normal; 52,848 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(853.02 ft / 820.21 ft) x 101.71 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x (37.73 / 38.73 ft)
(260.00 m / 250.00 m) x 31.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x (11.50 / 11.80 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 52.0 cal guns - 2,400.00lbs / 1,088.62kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck centre
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 52.0 cal guns - 115.32lbs / 52.31kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 52.0 cal guns - 34.17lbs / 15.50kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
6 x 2 row twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 23,394 lbs / 10,611 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 535.13 ft / 163.11 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 285.06 ft / 86.89 m 12.10 ft / 3.69 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 7.50 ft / 2.29 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
6.00" / 152 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 33.94 ft / 10.34 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.50" / 38 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 6.00" / 152 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 15.00" / 381 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 60,873 shp / 45,411 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,676 tons

Complement:
1,701 - 2,212

Cost:
£9.955 million / $39.822 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,952 tons, 9.7 %
Armour: 21,256 tons, 41.5 %
- Belts: 6,933 tons, 13.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,708 tons, 7.2 %
- Armament: 4,488 tons, 8.8 %
- Armour Deck: 5,681 tons, 11.1 %
- Conning Tower: 446 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,128 tons, 4.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,851 tons, 34.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,927 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
87,712 lbs / 39,785 Kg = 42.8 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 18.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 18.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.98
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.64

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.535 / 0.538
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.58 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 26.51 ft / 8.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.6 %
Waterplane Area: 57,407 Square feet or 5,333 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 224 lbs/sq ft or 1,092 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.71
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Key Notes:
16" Main Weapons
Her own guns won't penetrate her belt at 13,000m
Is only defeated by her own plunging fire at greater than 28,000m
Can survive forty-one 16" shells, or 17.2 torpedoes
Has a slow top speed of 23 knots, but cruises at 14 knots

[Steve]

Um, 18" armor for main belt is above material science of the day I believe.

[Thanas]

That is a good design, Norade. I'll try and put my own up tomorrow.

[Norade]

Dual layer system of 10" and 8" plates for maximum protection, at least I think that is the best way to go.