SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread V

[Siege]

What did you have in mind? I can't think of much off the top of my head besides additional security forces and nuclear reactors, though I'm sure Coilerburg already has some of the latter...

Both the Commonwealth Government, and the Gizmonic Institute are willing to invest in Mr. Bank's endeavours in Coilerburg. Mostly through funding, but we are also willing to export some labour for whatever rebuilding Mr. Bank has in mind.

Actually since Coilerburg's infrastructure has been neglected most of its energy generation is done by coal-fired plants. But nuclear reactors are a step too far right now: I'm looking principally for investments in Coilerburg's harbors, metalworking, shipbuilding, mining, machinebuilding, textile, steel, energy and chemical industries.

So Shroom, you repaired the sub for free?

We (that is, the transitional government of Coilerburg) would be willing to pay for any repairs related to the collision. But you better realize we're not going to pay for any repairs related to the cutting up of our own damned submarine.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hrm... blah. I should've spared myself the trouble and made that sub explode in Shroomanian waters. Would've really spared us all the trouble of bitching over the sub's integrity, since there won't be much to argue about it being blown to smithereens.

I guess we'll ship it back on a heavy lift ship.

[Shroom Man 777]

SiegeTank, I hope we're still superbestfriends and I can sell Coilerburg like things like solar panels and non-nuclear stuffs like dam(n)s and stuff to make it self-sufficient and awesome.

And windmills to tear flocks of birds to bloody gibs.

[Siege]

SiegeTank, I hope we're still superbestfriends and I can sell Coilerburg like things like solar panels and non-nuclear stuffs like dam(n)s and stuff to make it self-sufficient and awesome.

Shroomanian investments are more than welcome. If there's any way to demonstrate that the past was the past and this is the future, it's gotta be investments by Shroomania in Coilerburg.

[Shroom Man 777]

The Coilers will want good pornography. We will provide.

Amongst other things. If the government is lenient on stuff like steroids, then our pharmaceuticals can make a killing.

And the Coilers will be bigger, buffer, and MANLIER than ever!

The way of the future!

[PeZook]

It probably just had a crushed sonar dome. Let's say Shroomania fixed up the dome, then filled it with gay porn, THEN charged Coilerburg for repairs and the porn.

Then published the invoice on ShroomStrat TV as proof of goodwill. With a position saying "130 000 gay porn magazines" clearly visible

[K. A. Pital]

Shroom is awesome and that's an official endorsement.

[Shroom Man 777]

Thank you, here have a boiled duck fetus egg.

[Shroom Man 777]

I made edits care to take a look and find out where is Waldo?

[DarthShady]

Shroom is awesome and that's an official endorsement.

I'll second this endorsement.

Also: It begins.

[Shroom Man 777]

Cool idea with the sub-bluff, Coyote.

Never underestimate a man who can be a deranged mess at one moment, and on the next being able to communicate with world leaders like any other cool cat!

[CmdrWilkens]

Yes, but not everyone follows precedental law. Precedents like maritime incidents are especially hard - do you see that in real life that people "evaluate" maritime incidents and border violations based on previous incidents? Uhh... nop

Unification of Maritime law goes back to the turn of the century and I'm gonna try and drag a quote out of a book on the Titanic investigation (not the incident but rather the Congressional investigation) noting how American and British admiralty courts regularly cited each other's works in determining salvage and other rights. In other words yes folks do quote prior precedent with regards to maritime incidents.

[Steve]

Wait, Warden wasn't there to nuke you, it was just Coiler doing something stupid and then, after it blew up like that, he came up with some stupid story of "Oh, Marina sent the sub there to prevent a war in the future", which would hardly be "public knowledge" in-game.

It has all the earmarks of Coilerburg testing its sub's ability to slip into potentially hostile waters and accidentally colliding with another sub they didn't notice.

[PeZook]

No time to write a game post right now, but please do assume the Foreign Ministry sent a note inviting Lelouch to visit PeZookia.

[Shroom Man 777]

LANGLEY:
You guys can visit Shroomania, yo. As detailed in this post.


STEVE:
The Coilers were out to murder us. But Siege didn't share that information to you, though.

[Shroom Man 777]

Wait, Warden wasn't there to nuke you, it was just Coiler doing something stupid and then, after it blew up like that, he came up with some stupid story of "Oh, Marina sent the sub there to prevent a war in the future", which would hardly be "public knowledge" in-game.

It has all the earmarks of Coilerburg testing its sub's ability to slip into potentially hostile waters and accidentally colliding with another sub they didn't notice.

Siege confirms that Coiler intended it to be part of an endgame. And Siege has, in fact, posted in-game that his intelligence corresponds with Coiler nuclear nuttery. He said as much to President Shinra.

[Siege]

The Coilers were out to murder us. But Siege didn't share that information to you, though.

That's not actually the case, as I've repeatedly told you. Farve hadn't ruled out that he'd give a launch order should his silly invasion go south. But it's not like he'd already authorized the reduction of Farbanti to nuclear ashes.

Steve's pretty much right: the sub was trying to sneak in and collided with one of your own boats. That the Warden happened to have a nuclear arsenal aboard is a very serious matter, but there's no conceivable way Shroomania could logically deduct that Coilerburg was out "to murder you". You don't have knowledge of the possible future; there are no launch orders aboard the submarine, so you simply cannot draw that conclusion. All you can do is conclude that it would have been in a position to launch a nuclear strike against Shroomania, which is serious enough of its own right, but jumping from that to "zomg they wanted to murder us" is simply hysteria.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Here's the problem. Shroomania has her crew. Since Coiler made a claim that Marina ordered them into Shroomanian waters to fire off the nukes, it means, under severe duress, the captain of the Warden would have revealed his mission.

[Shroom Man 777]

It's really not that hard to extrapolate what a Coiler missile sub heading for launch position in Shroomanian waters intends to do. In a world where two nations were destroyed in surprised WMD strikes, a world whose leaders have collectively experienced an apocalypse and who were reincarnated from the decades of ensuing dystopic survival struggles, you can pardon me for needing a little hydrodynamic hysterectomy.

Sydney Hank might've not lived through it all, but the Prime Minister has and it's nearly sent him spiraling down the brink of madness.

As we can so clearly see.

It's really not hysterical. Coilerburg WAS out to invade Shroomanian territory in a mad scheme. Coilerburg is a nuclear power. Shroomania is a nuclear power. Coiler wanted war. A Coilerburg nuclear missile sub was in Shroomanian waters.

The only reason we're all here to say that he wasn't out to murder us because he was caught sneaking in my backyard at night, holding a knife at hand, before he could moisten it a little by sticking it in me.

[Siege]

No, they weren't "ordered into Shroomanian waters to fire off the nukes". What happened was, and I quote:

"Yes. I sent the submarine, knowing full well that it would collide."

That's of course Marina talking. And there's nothing about a nuclear launch there. In fact, according to Coiler the nuclear war between Coilerburg and Shroomania is still two years into the future. There's no way the captain would've known about it, let alone know of any order to fire.

Now, I personally feel we'd be better off retconning Marina out of it, and having the submarine be where it was because President Farve wanted to see how easy he could get his subs into Shroomanian waters, as a prelude to the invasion of that island chain he was planning. In fact I've written most of my posts assuming that's what happened, with Farve being deposed the minute people found out what he was planning.

The point remains however that under neither scenario would there be orders to kickstart the nuclear armageddon aboard that submarine, or in the captain's head, or anywhere else.

[Coyote]

Oh, I dunno. It means he's playing in-character, as a guy who was reincarnated from a nuclear strike survivor, getting his memories (and reasons for paranoia) mixed up. "Marina" also remembers full well how the last game ended up and wanted to head it off at the pass so that this world didn't go down in flames like the last one.

We'd be 2-0 for planets, not a good record, and the last thing we want to do is give Q the chance to gloat.

It could well be, given the 'otherworldly power' aspect introduced by that brief bit of fore-shadowing, that the order came across the sub commander's desk in perfectly legitimate form, with all the right codes, down to the letterhead, and he was told to scout routes or even possibly prepare for a possible single-missile decapitation strike on Shroom. Possibly even as a way to earn more "street cred" among the FTO nad try to become the local Big Guy.

[Shroom Man 777]

That's a dumb way to earn street cred with the FTO.

But the Coilerburgers have never been anything but meatheads.


EDIT:

The moral lesson is that you shouldn't fuck around in Shroomanian waters. It's not worth it. Go bother someone who's sane instead.

[PeZook]

Guys, this really isn't complicated. A misile sub submerged in territorial waters already violated the Convention On The Law Of The Sea. Even if it doesn't have the orders aboard, so what? It's a question of sending off one ELF message telling it to fire.Why do you think the US and USSR signed that agreement prohibiting SSBNs from crawling up to each other's shores?

The Coilers are lucky they weren't torpedoed right away, after what happened to Astaria.

[Coyote]

That's a dumb way to earn street cred with the FTO.

Yeah, but I was using the example provided by Libyan leader Moammar Khadafy the last couple of weeks. He's trying to be the "African King of Kings" and hired a bunch of guys to parade around in historic tribal king outfits to represent the "Kings of Africa", and goes to African Unity meetings insisting everyone call him "your Majesty", that sort of thing. He's trying to strongarm his way into being the Big Guy and ends up looking like a buffoon.

[DarthShady]

Alright, lets get this meeting started.

P.S. My previous post is now moved to Unreal Time, We'll see what happens with it, later.