Well since I don't feel like slogging through the after-effects of nuclear war I thought I'd start this out.
First off, by all means finish up whatever in SDN World. This'll take awhile before the game gets going anyway.
So I'm curious to see who's good with this and whatever. I had a general thought on GDPs for the levels:
Imperium - 6 trillion USD
Tsardom - 4.5 trillion USD
Kingdom - 2.25 trillion USD
Principality - 1.125 trillion USD
Duchy - 0.9 trillion USD
These numbers could change. It depends on how many people want to join and how we'd balance things out. I don't mind power blocs but I'd like to see what we can do with a (somewhat) more balanced setup. Obviously groups with more nations at the higher levels would be better off, but lots of smaller nations won't be a burden anymore, as they can better contribute.
Other stats like land area will probably change, although I think they're mostly good as they are, with bringing Principality to half a Kingdom's area and a Duchy as half a Principality would work.
So post away with your thoughts!
SDNWorld Redux - Casting Call & Planning
SDNWorld Redux - Casting Call & Planning
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
What about the militaries? Duchies and Principalities would have to get some more hardware to compensate.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Shroom Man 777
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I disapprove of giving Principalities the GDP of Canada.
Give them Sweden's. 500 billion. Sweden is a major producer of rocket launchers and 4th generation fighters, they can killfuck things good and aren't pussies.
Duchies get Saudi Arabia's - 300 billion (OR Hong Kong, for 200 billion)
Principalities get Sweden - 500 billion
Kingdoms get Netherlands's GDP - 750 billion
Tsardoms get Canada - 1.4 trillion
Imperiums get twice that, Germany - 3 trillion
Game balance, mang.
Give them Sweden's. 500 billion. Sweden is a major producer of rocket launchers and 4th generation fighters, they can killfuck things good and aren't pussies.
Duchies get Saudi Arabia's - 300 billion (OR Hong Kong, for 200 billion)
Principalities get Sweden - 500 billion
Kingdoms get Netherlands's GDP - 750 billion
Tsardoms get Canada - 1.4 trillion
Imperiums get twice that, Germany - 3 trillion
Game balance, mang.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people
- PeZookShroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
Oh yeah, duh, I forgot.PeZook wrote:What about the militaries? Duchies and Principalities would have to get some more hardware to compensate.
It could probably scale like the land mass. Half a Kingdom's hardware and so on:
Principality
Comparable armored/motorized deployment to half of British Army
75 Jet Fighters
5 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, 20 Halifax-class frigates and 5 modern diesel submarines
A fleet of patrol ships and helicopters (approx. 1/8 of USCG)
Duchy
Comparable armored/motorized deployment to one-quarter of British Army
40 Jet Fighters
2 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, 10 Halifax-class frigates and 2 modern diesel submarines
A fleet of patrol ships and helicopters (approx. 1/16 of USCG)
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Oh, yeah I didn't catch that: RogueIce's proposal gives a Duchy merely 200 million less GDP than a principality, in effect giving us just a bunch of principalities
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
And I'll admit my giganto GDPs are based on an idea to have a more global game. In addition to the players there are various NPC "rogue states" like what Terra Libertia was, way back in the start of things. Except now there's more of them and they're a bit varied in how they operate (Some are like Somalia, others like Iran/North Korea/etc, others like the Terra Libertia of Nova Terra, and so on...)
So a more global game, and it also gives people somebody to shoot at besides the other players, if they feel a compelling need to do so.
So a more global game, and it also gives people somebody to shoot at besides the other players, if they feel a compelling need to do so.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
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Shroom Man 777
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I say Duchies get 200 billion.
Principalities stick with 500 billion.
Kingdoms get 750 bil.
Tsardoms and Imperiums get the trillions.
There will be diversity, yet no one will be a poorass shithole.
Principalities stick with 500 billion.
Kingdoms get 750 bil.
Tsardoms and Imperiums get the trillions.
There will be diversity, yet no one will be a poorass shithole.
Last edited by Shroom Man 777 on 2008-07-08 09:21am, edited 1 time in total.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people
- PeZookShroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
Whoops.PeZook wrote:Oh, yeah I didn't catch that: RogueIce's proposal gives a Duchy merely 200 million less GDP than a principality, in effect giving us just a bunch of principalities
700 billion?
I don't want to inflate Duchies too much, but I don't want them to be, essentially, a burden to any alliance they're a part of like they were in the old system.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
I dig Rogue's higher GDPs. This makes people able to operate on their own if they so wish, while still forcing larger players to work together if they want to accomplish, say...a Moon mission
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
-
Shroom Man 777
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Then follow me! We could have a system where the Duchies, the least prosperous of nations, would have proportionately more resources of something.
Duchies become prime ground for contesting territory, booming businesses and investment and shit!
EDIT:
I don't want Duchies, and every one, to be on the brink of the 1 trillion mark or something. When you go past 1 trillion and are rich... everyone is practically the same in terms of power and stuff! It's too similar already.
DIVERSIFICATION
Duchies become prime ground for contesting territory, booming businesses and investment and shit!
EDIT:
I don't want Duchies, and every one, to be on the brink of the 1 trillion mark or something. When you go past 1 trillion and are rich... everyone is practically the same in terms of power and stuff! It's too similar already.
DIVERSIFICATION
Last edited by Shroom Man 777 on 2008-07-08 09:26am, edited 1 time in total.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people
- PeZookShroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
So...Duchies would get a resource bonus?Shroom Man 777 wrote:Then follow me! We could have a system where the Duchies, the least prosperous of nations, would have proportionately more resources of something.
Duchies become prime ground for contesting territory, booming businesses and investment and shit!
We could also space the map so that Duchies are located strategically. Say, some would be on the equator (launch complex extravaganza!) and between landmasses making them prime spots for placing missiles and/or airbases
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
-
Shroom Man 777
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And we could specifically request size differentials.I don't want Duchies, and every one, to be on the brink of the 1 trillion mark or something. When you go past 1 trillion and are rich... everyone is practically the same in terms of power and stuff! It's too similar already.
DIVERSIFICATION
Some Kingdoms and Tsardoms could be TINY - like Korea. Duchies might be poor (well... 300 billion isn't THAT much) but they could be HUEG with MANY peoples - like Indonesia or something.
SWEATSHOPS!
Diversification of resources.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people
- PeZookShroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
Depending on who joins, we could probably figure the alliances easily enough, and then try to place them in groups.
It tends to kind of make you stuck with an alliance, but ah well.
This way at least, even if someone goes with the "lolz nuke spam!" the alliances would be placed such that anyone trying it has to go through their combined air defenses, making it that much harder.
Essentially, nobody could really pick on an alliance in war, not without crazy orbital weapons and shit. So it'd either be more limited wars between powers, or proxy wars, or something to that effect. You simply couldn't hope to wipe out an alliance of any decent size.
This does tend to place a limitation on joining though. In that once the game is in-progress the world is effectively "locked"; no more player nations can join (though we could "discover" more NPC nations if there was enough interest...we have a whole planet to work with!).
It tends to kind of make you stuck with an alliance, but ah well.
This way at least, even if someone goes with the "lolz nuke spam!" the alliances would be placed such that anyone trying it has to go through their combined air defenses, making it that much harder.
Essentially, nobody could really pick on an alliance in war, not without crazy orbital weapons and shit. So it'd either be more limited wars between powers, or proxy wars, or something to that effect. You simply couldn't hope to wipe out an alliance of any decent size.
This does tend to place a limitation on joining though. In that once the game is in-progress the world is effectively "locked"; no more player nations can join (though we could "discover" more NPC nations if there was enough interest...we have a whole planet to work with!).
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
A Nazi continent to invade?
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
-
Shroom Man 777
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The Balkanization of Shepnukistan.
We need land masses.
We need land masses.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people
- PeZookShroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
I would say if you want to give an incentive for people to play independent if they want, they could get some bonuses. Extra resources, a slight boost of GDP, whatever. But they have to play it straight. They can't say "I'm independent!" take the bonuses, and suddenly declare they're in an alliance two days later.
It doesn't have to be a bunch of alliances as players, after all.
One thing though, if you're gonna go independent you'd also get placed away from the "alliance masses" for example. So, even if say, three years down the line someone woos you to formal alliance membership, your defense is that much harder since you're more out in the open than a declared alliance member.
But you get some bonuses and a bit more leeway by going indepenent, so it's up to your play style.
It doesn't have to be a bunch of alliances as players, after all.
One thing though, if you're gonna go independent you'd also get placed away from the "alliance masses" for example. So, even if say, three years down the line someone woos you to formal alliance membership, your defense is that much harder since you're more out in the open than a declared alliance member.
But you get some bonuses and a bit more leeway by going indepenent, so it's up to your play style.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Something to consider would be some third world areas for everyone to try and influence and have pissing contests with out it going nuclear. Any ideas how to role-play such places?
Also please make the world bigger in general with more distance between nations. Land borders could be interesting as well in some cases. More money is also good. I was always dubious of Mr. Bean’s death satellites and Sheps ridiculous nuclear aircraft given their nation's budgets and resources (not to mention availability of researchers).
Also please make the world bigger in general with more distance between nations. Land borders could be interesting as well in some cases. More money is also good. I was always dubious of Mr. Bean’s death satellites and Sheps ridiculous nuclear aircraft given their nation's budgets and resources (not to mention availability of researchers).
Let's not get bogged down in bonuses and perks for play styles
After all, you don't get those in the real world.
After all, you don't get those in the real world.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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DarthShady
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Yeah, that's one of the things I'm looking for, really. More places like Terra Libertia. Except they don't get "resolved" as easily as TL did.Raj Ahten wrote:Something to consider would be some third world areas for everyone to try and influence and have pissing contests with out it going nuclear. Any ideas how to role-play such places?
I mean, TL wasn't really three functioning countries, but it pretty rapidly went from "complete anarchist shithole" to "wait there are three power blocs now?" pretty damn quick.
Yes indeed. Forgot to mention that. Lessens having nuke/bomber spam with more distance (thus you get more warning and the like, ranges are increased, etc.).Raj Ahten wrote:Also please make the world bigger in general with more distance between nations.
Adding that with alliance grouping it makes the whole Global War thing against the alliances a dicey proposition at best.
Independent countries are a bit more out in the wind, but nobody would want to destory them or try and force a bloodly and hugely expensive occupation because then they'd all lose the little bonus or niche service or whatever that they provide. That's their best protection.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
For added hilarity, the "anarchistic undeveloped shitholes" may be...natives of the planet
Who hate the humans for displacing them
Who hate the humans for displacing them
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Well basically I'm trying to figure a way for independent players to not just get randomly attacked by an alliance that gets bored one day.PeZook wrote:Let's not get bogged down in bonuses and perks for play styles
After all, you don't get those in the real world.
They could find a niche I suppose, like Sweden in our world, or Indhopal did last time. Providing some independent, neutral service to all sides, thus providing their insurance against any of the blocs bullying them...if that happens, the others would come in to protect the aforementioned service.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Or, you know...we may let politics run its course. After all, there's gonna be plenty of people pissed with assholes attacking random small countries.
You know, one way to resolve the issue would be to do a map beforehand, divide it into regions, assign all regions point values and have people compose their countries out of points (for example: you have 100 points, you can buy one 40 point territorry and spend 60 points on population and GDP, or buy two 80 point territories and only spend 20 points on development)
You know, one way to resolve the issue would be to do a map beforehand, divide it into regions, assign all regions point values and have people compose their countries out of points (for example: you have 100 points, you can buy one 40 point territorry and spend 60 points on population and GDP, or buy two 80 point territories and only spend 20 points on development)
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
-
Shroom Man 777
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Me to Rogue over AIM:
The only reason the Duchies suffered in the last game was because of their financial/geographic/militaristic insignificance. If we up the GDP, but not up it to the point where they are 900billions, I think we can make them not-insignificant while still keeping them... as Duchies. Hence 300 billion GDP, Austria, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong - it's not a bad deal!
It's not so much as sheer militaristic clout as... more intangible aspects. Shroomania is different and affects shit in a more noticeable manner than... say Tian Xia, because I'm a nut. Stas affects the world differently because he's Soviet Cyberpunk, Fingolfin is a Byzantine Emperor.
Just because a Duchy is 300 billion, doesn't mean it can't make an impact. A Duchy could try becoming Dubai, making crazy architecture.
The only reason the Duchies suffered in the last game was because of their financial/geographic/militaristic insignificance. If we up the GDP, but not up it to the point where they are 900billions, I think we can make them not-insignificant while still keeping them... as Duchies. Hence 300 billion GDP, Austria, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong - it's not a bad deal!
It's not so much as sheer militaristic clout as... more intangible aspects. Shroomania is different and affects shit in a more noticeable manner than... say Tian Xia, because I'm a nut. Stas affects the world differently because he's Soviet Cyberpunk, Fingolfin is a Byzantine Emperor.
Just because a Duchy is 300 billion, doesn't mean it can't make an impact. A Duchy could try becoming Dubai, making crazy architecture.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people
- PeZookShroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
True. At least with the upped GDPs they could also afford real defenses, so nobody can just knock them aside without any real effort (which would have happened to Duchies beforehand if anyone had cared to).PeZook wrote:Or, you know...we may let politics run its course. After all, there's gonna be plenty of people pissed with assholes attacking random small countries.
A Tsardom could go independent and not need anything special because they'd be large and (relatively) powerful enough that anyone attacking them is going to pay a far higher price than anything they'd get in return.
We could work the GDPs so Duchies can have some of that, too, though obviously not be a Big Boy. Basically, they could never hope to attack a Tsardom, but even a Tsardom would pay a good price for attack a Duchy. Or something.
There is that. I think it's sort of like how other STGODs kinda do it.PeZook wrote:You know, one way to resolve the issue would be to do a map beforehand, divide it into regions, assign all regions point values and have people compose their countries out of points (for example: you have 100 points, you can buy one 40 point territorry and spend 60 points on population and GDP, or buy two 80 point territories and only spend 20 points on development)
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight