SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Wilkins, you might want to make the main belt higher at 15ft (or preferably 18ft) and ditch the end belt.

Also.. you might want to convert your 2.75mm guns into anti-air.

[Thanas]

Yeah, the larger your freeboard, the longer your armor belt should be. IMO 18ft is the minimum we should aim for.

[Ryan Thunder]

This overrides all preceding mentions of the Valiant, Vendetta, and Vindicator classes.

Valiant, Columbian monitor laid down 1920

Displacement:
5 987 t light; 6 352 t standard; 6 546 t normal; 6 701 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
399.85 ft / 393.70 ft x 55.77 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
121.88 m / 120.00 m x 17.00 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
4 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2x2 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (2x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
2 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.62lbs / 7.09kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
10 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (1x10 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mount
on side
Weight of broadside 2 063 lbs / 936 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 8.96 ft / 2.73 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 157.45 ft / 47.99 m 8.96 ft / 2.73 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.94" / 100 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 15.68 ft / 4.78 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm - 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm

- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 11 348 shp / 8 465 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 4 000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 349 tons

Complement:
363 - 473

Cost:
£1.138 million / $4.554 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 258 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 2 840 tons, 43.4 %
- Belts: 634 tons, 9.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 540 tons, 8.2 %
- Armament: 390 tons, 6.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1 262 tons, 19.3 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 397 tons, 6.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 492 tons, 38.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 559 tons, 8.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13 249 lbs / 6 010 Kg = 27.8 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.636
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.95 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.42 ft / 4.70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.2 %
Waterplane Area: 17 320 Square feet or 1 609 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.77
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Vindicator, Columbian frigate laid down 1920

Displacement:
13 241 t light; 14 144 t standard; 14 993 t normal; 15 671 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
432.66 ft / 426.51 ft x 82.02 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
131.88 m / 130.00 m x 25.00 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
4 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (2x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
2 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.62lbs / 7.09kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
10 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5 388 lbs / 2 444 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 10.86 ft / 3.31 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 170.57 ft / 51.99 m 10.86 ft / 3.31 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
5.91" / 150 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 19.36 ft / 5.90 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm - 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm - 5.91" / 150 mm

- Armour deck: 5.91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 19 809 shp / 14 778 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 4 450nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 527 tons

Complement:
676 - 880

Cost:
£2.662 million / $10.648 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 674 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 6 540 tons, 43.6 %
- Belts: 1 084 tons, 7.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1 082 tons, 7.2 %
- Armament: 967 tons, 6.4 %
- Armour Deck: 3 381 tons, 22.6 %
- Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 693 tons, 4.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 335 tons, 35.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 752 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28 492 lbs / 12 924 Kg = 21.8 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 7.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 17.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 92 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.762
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 79
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.93 ft / 5.16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.0 %
Waterplane Area: 30 948 Square feet or 2 875 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 676 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Vendetta, Columbian battlecruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
47 368 t light; 50 497 t standard; 55 027 t normal; 58 651 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
821.82 ft / 803.81 ft x 98.43 ft x 32.81 ft (normal load)
250.49 m / 245.00 m x 30.00 m x 10.00 m

Armament:
6 - 17.72" / 450 mm guns (2 mounts), 2 780.39lbs / 1 261.16kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 2 raised guns - superfiring
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (6x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.62lbs / 7.09kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 18 015 lbs / 8 171 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 522.47 ft / 159.25 m 11.91 ft / 3.63 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 281.30 ft / 85.74 m 11.91 ft / 3.63 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 522.47 ft / 159.25 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.33" / 110 mm 522.47 ft / 159.25 m 32.15 ft / 9.80 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm - 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 15.7" / 400 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm

- Armour deck: 12.40" / 315 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 95 777 shp / 71 450 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8 154 tons

Complement:
1 796 - 2 335

Cost:
£9.498 million / $37.991 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 252 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 24 716 tons, 44.9 %
- Belts: 3 747 tons, 6.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2 692 tons, 4.9 %
- Armament: 2 439 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 15 777 tons, 28.7 %
- Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 3 349 tons, 6.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17 051 tons, 31.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7 659 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
89 998 lbs / 40 823 Kg = 32.4 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 17.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 18.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.87
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.742
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.13 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.20 ft / 9.51 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Stern: 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Average freeboard: 20.76 ft / 6.33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.8 %
Waterplane Area: 68 768 Square feet or 6 389 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 907 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.05
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Ryan, your armor is scheme is borderline ridiculous. Please check out the other designs to get an idea how to do it.

[CmdrWilkens]

Yeah. That's not a Fast Battleship: that's a Standard. Fast Battleship would be something in the neighborhood of 30 knots.

Yeah that's a 'forgot to rename it" thing. I started with the engines rated up to 28 with cruise at 16 but dropped that in order to save weight for my guns and armor. Anyway I'm re-working it right now and it will be a standard not a fast battleship. Fast battleships are my next project and those will be what I'm building "now" once I create them and figure out their IBP cost.

[Ryan Thunder]

Ryan, your armor is scheme is borderline ridiculous. Please check out the other designs to get an idea how to do it.

Oh. I seem to recall the Bismarck having a similarly-organized armour scheme, though...

[Ma Deuce]

Oh. I seem to recall the Bismarck having a similarly-organized armour scheme, though...

And not many people here hold the Bismarck in high regard. Still, your incremental vertical armor isn't as bad as Bismarck's (which had 7 cm on the ends and 14.5 cm for the upper belt), as it's only 5 cm outside the citadel, which isn't much extra weight on a 50,000 ton ship; you'll notice on my designs I still added 40mm of belt armor extending all the way to the end of the waterline (that is more of a roleplaying thing than me believing it's actually necessary, however). The real problem is your deck armor: Normally, I'm an advocate of very thick decks, but 315mm is quite excessive against even 18 inch guns. You could easily thin it to 200-230mm and use the tonnage saved to make it faster, or make your main belt taller and maybe a bit thicker. Since you have about 6 meters of freeboard amidships, that means your main belt should be about 4.5 m. You could also do to make the faceplates on your secondaries a lot thinner: even 100mm should be quite plenty, but really the secondaries only really need protection against blast and splinter damage (for which 40-50mm all around is adequate). Finally, I'm not sure why you're so fond of such ridiculously thin-skinned conning towers.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Is there a general rule for main belt height versus freeboard?

Also, Ryan, did you even include Barbette armor on your turrets?

[Ma Deuce]

Is there a general rule for main belt height versus freeboard?

Generally, I'd consider about 3/5ths of the freeboard the minimum belt height for an all-or-nothing ship, though 2/3rds would be more ideal, and 3/4ths should be quite plenty. My ships above are closer to the minimum, though for my later designs I'm assuming the belt to be tapered underwater, which would give you a wee bit more extra height for the same weight.

[Thanas]

Ryan, your main battleships has a worse armor belt than my 1907 battlecruisers. It also is only 12 feet high, which is far too less. it also has less capability than the 40kt export ships I am building for Spain or Evincer.

[Steve]

I've been generally adapting 15-18' height armor belts myself. My ships also tend to have low freeboard.

Of course, SpringSharp doesn't quite let you emulate tapered belts or such.

I also have my newer classes utilizing inclided belts.

[Ryan Thunder]

How about this?

Vendetta, Columbian battlecruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
52 634 t light; 55 202 t standard; 60 000 t normal; 63 838 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
821.82 ft / 803.81 ft x 91.86 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x 32.81 ft (normal load)
250.49 m / 245.00 m x 28.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x 10.00 m

Armament:
8 - 17.72" / 450 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2 780.40lbs / 1 261.17kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.62lbs / 7.09kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
80 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (40x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 24 222 lbs / 10 987 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 522.47 ft / 159.25 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Ends: 5.91" / 150 mm 281.30 ft / 85.74 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Upper: 7.87" / 200 mm 522.47 ft / 159.25 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
8.66" / 220 mm 522.47 ft / 159.25 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 19.7" / 500 mm - 19.7" / 500 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm - 1.97" / 50 mm

- Armour deck: 8.86" / 225 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 55 339 shp / 41 283 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8 636 tons

Complement:
1 916 - 2 491

Cost:
£11.006 million / $44.025 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 028 tons, 5.0 %
Armour: 28 084 tons, 46.8 %
- Belts: 8 154 tons, 13.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 5 493 tons, 9.2 %
- Armament: 3 784 tons, 6.3 %
- Armour Deck: 10 458 tons, 17.4 %
- Conning Tower: 195 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1 935 tons, 3.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19 587 tons, 32.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7 366 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
104 233 lbs / 47 279 Kg = 37.5 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 26.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 19.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.736
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.42 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.37 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.20 ft / 9.51 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Stern: 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Average freeboard: 20.76 ft / 6.33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.9 %
Waterplane Area: 63 814 Square feet or 5 928 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 213 lbs/sq ft or 1 040 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.05
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

EDIT: Forgot to account for the turrets being quad-mounts...

[Steve]

I believe that material sciences won't allow belts to get much thicker than 14". I considered Cascadia pushing the envelope with a 16" main belt on my 1920+ dreads. Also, I see you're not adapting all-or-nothing Armor? That could actually hurt you, it means an AP shell could be set off striking even an unimportant part of the ship... though if someone utilizes HE only you'll be okay.

Your armor deck is also extremely thick and thus makes your vessel heavier than it needs to be. 8" was actually considered the thickest you'd see in the era - most ships didn't go past 6" protection.

Bring all that down and you should get below the 50,000T standard cap for game-starting ships.

....what's with your engine type? And do you want a Battlecruiser or a Battleship, because 22 knots is actually slower than my dreads, let alone my BCs.

[Steve]

Assuming you wanted a dreadnought and not a battlecruiser:

Vendetta, Gran Colombia Battleship laid down 1920

Displacement:
43,862 t light; 47,705 t standard; 50,092 t normal; 52,002 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(809.31 ft / 790.68 ft) x 91.86 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x (33.46 / 34.71 ft)
(246.68 m / 241.00 m) x 28.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x (10.20 / 10.58 m)

Armament:
8 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,804.10lbs / 1,271.92kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 750 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 15.76lbs / 7.15kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
5 raised mounts
40 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
10 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 24,419 lbs / 11,076 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 501.97 ft / 153.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 5.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
4.02" / 102 mm 498.69 ft / 152.00 m 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 68.00 ft / 20.73 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 19.0" / 483 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 18.0" / 457 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 6.30" / 160 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 15.98" / 406 mm, Aft 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 63,000 shp / 46,998 Kw = 23.08 kts
Range 5,998nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,297 tons

Complement:
1,673 - 2,176

Cost:
£9.524 million / $38.094 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,532 tons, 9.0 %
- Guns: 4,532 tons, 9.0 %
Armour: 20,086 tons, 40.1 %
- Belts: 6,111 tons, 12.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,309 tons, 4.6 %
- Armament: 5,734 tons, 11.4 %
- Armour Deck: 5,317 tons, 10.6 %
- Conning Towers: 614 tons, 1.2 %
Machinery: 2,203 tons, 4.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,041 tons, 34.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,231 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
72,036 lbs / 32,675 Kg = 25.9 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 14.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 21.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.97
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.612 / 0.613
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.30 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.12 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 31.20 ft / 9.51 m, 25.52 ft / 7.78 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 25.52 ft / 7.78 m, 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.85 ft / 6.05 m, 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.85 ft / 6.05 m, 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Average freeboard: 22.29 ft / 6.79 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.4 %
Waterplane Area: 53,722 Square feet or 4,991 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 228 lbs/sq ft or 1,113 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Ryan Thunder]

Are we officially using SpringSharp 3 or Springsharp 2?

[Ma Deuce]

I believe that material sciences won't allow belts to get much thicker than 14"

You can make face-hardened armor thicker, but the quality of the plate will drop off substantially by the time you get to 17.7 inches.

Also, I see you're not adapting all-or-nothing Armor? That could actually hurt you, it means an AP shell could be set off striking even an unimportant part of the ship... though if someone utilizes HE only you'll be okay.

If the armor outside the citadel is only say, 1.5 inches thick and composed of homogeneous plate only, then it may not provide enough resistance to trigger a large-caliber AP shell. It may still damage or strip away the AP cap however, reducing it's effictivness if it strikes the armor protecting the citadel (like say, if a shell passes through one of the end belts at an oblique angle and hits one of the citadel's closing bulkheads.). I should point out that even later AoN ships had such thin protection outside the citadel, usually to protect against aircraft bombs and strafing, though this protection tended to be integrated with the hull structure to save weight (you can sim this in springsharp by making the plate about 1/3 of it's intended thickness). Take careful note of that armor diagram of the Yamato that Sea Skimmer posted earlier. As an aside, the US went even further than that by making significant portions of their later battleships' structure out of homogeneous armor-grade steel where most nations would use mild steel, which made these ships significantly more expensive (AFAIK, the US alone could afford this extravagance)

Your armor deck is also extremely thick and thus makes your vessel heavier than it needs to be. 8" was actually considered the thickest you'd see in the era - most ships didn't go past 6" protection.

I should point out that one of the proposed battleships (L3 I believe) from the program that produced the G3 & N3 designs and ultimately Nelson, had 13 inches of deck armor over the magazines ( ). Of course it was much thinner over the machinery spaces, so the average thickness would have been far less.

[Steve]

The Brits did that because of the fates of their BCs at Jutland IIRC. When I talked about putting 9.5" of deck armor on a ship my naval enthusiast friends started stabbing me with slide rules....

Hrm, maybe I should start putting thin end armor to simulate what you're talking about. Too late really for my "established" designs unless the armor's thin enough to not bring composite strength down.

[Thanas]

I noticed Ryan's design had no side turret armor whatsoever.

[Ryan Thunder]

I noticed Ryan's design had no side turret armor whatsoever.

You can set the side armour?

[Thanas]

Yes?

[Ryan Thunder]

Well fuck it, I'm just going to rebuild it all in v3 from scratch. -_-

[Steve]

Keep in mind with deck armor that even 6-7" is good protection. 8" was considered excessive on Britain's part.

[Ryan Thunder]

Valiant, Columbia monitor laid down 1920

Displacement:
6 664 t light; 7 222 t standard; 7 750 t normal; 8 173 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(426.51 ft / 426.51 ft) x 65.62 ft x (16.40 / 17.13 ft)
(130.00 m / 130.00 m) x 20.00 m x (5.00 / 5.22 m)

Armament:
4 - 11.81" / 300 mm 45.0 cal guns - 830.84lbs / 376.86kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
2 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 17.11lbs / 7.76kg shells, 500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
10 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3 483 lbs / 1 580 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.33" / 110 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 2.17" / 55 mm 131.20 ft / 39.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
98.46 ft / 30.01 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 71 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
3.94" / 100 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm - 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm - 1.97" / 50 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 6 117 shp / 4 563 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 4 000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 951 tons

Complement:
412 - 536

Cost:
£1.390 million / $5.560 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 640 tons, 8.3 %
- Guns: 640 tons, 8.3 %
Armour: 2 998 tons, 38.7 %
- Belts: 799 tons, 10.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 423 tons, 5.5 %
- Armament: 391 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1 318 tons, 17.0 %
- Conning Towers: 66 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 214 tons, 2.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 813 tons, 36.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 086 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17 288 lbs / 7 842 Kg = 21.0 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 97 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.88
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.591 / 0.597
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 15.49 ft / 4.72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 50.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.5 %
Waterplane Area: 20 294 Square feet or 1 885 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 616 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.88
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Ryan Thunder]

Sorry, I undergunned the Vendetta again. This should be better;

Vendetta, Columbia battlecruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
48 141 t light; 54 647 t standard; 59 006 t normal; 62 493 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(656.17 ft / 656.17 ft) x 114.83 ft (Bulges 131.23 ft) x (32.81 / 34.72 ft)
(200.00 m / 200.00 m) x 35.00 m (Bulges 40.00 m) x (10.00 / 10.58 m)

Armament:
9 - 17.72" / 450 mm 42.0 cal guns - 2 696.17lbs / 1 222.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 7.87" / 200 mm 45.0 cal guns - 246.18lbs / 111.67kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
60 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 17.11lbs / 7.76kg shells, 1 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
30 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
10 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
60 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
40 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 30 232 lbs / 13 713 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 229.63 ft / 69.99 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Upper: 13.8" / 350 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
9.84" / 250 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 98.43 ft / 30.00 m

- Hull Bulges:
9.84" / 250 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 17.7" / 450 mm 17.7" / 450 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.89" / 175 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 46 212 shp / 34 474 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7 846 tons

Complement:
1 892 - 2 460

Cost:
£10.764 million / $43.057 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 901 tons, 8.3 %
- Guns: 4 901 tons, 8.3 %
Armour: 28 621 tons, 48.5 %
- Belts: 6 420 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 5 096 tons, 8.6 %
- Bulges: 3 920 tons, 6.6 %
- Armament: 5 736 tons, 9.7 %
- Armour Deck: 7 063 tons, 12.0 %
- Conning Towers: 386 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1 616 tons, 2.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13 003 tons, 22.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 10 865 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
99 155 lbs / 44 976 Kg = 35.7 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 26.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
Metacentric height 11.6 ft / 3.5 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.731 / 0.732
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.18 ft / 8.59 m, 23.06 ft / 7.03 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.06 ft / 7.03 m, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m
- Average freeboard: 20.15 ft / 6.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.7 %
Waterplane Area: 63 741 Square feet or 5 922 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 234 lbs/sq ft or 1 144 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.48
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Thanas]

the armor scheme is still a bit ridiculous and to boot, your ship is about 5000 tons over the limit.