SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK IV

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-05-31 01:25pm

Okay, why the fuck did Alexandria get a radar? Only against missile attacks? Embargo against Tonkin extended indefinetely.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2008-05-31 01:35pm

Coiler, how can your country, with a GDP $6,250,000,00 afford all that without making your country destitute?

Even if Shep sold you those DDGs at half the cost, that'll still put you in the area of $400mil for each one of them.

Shinn Langley Soryu · Post by **Shinn Langley Soryu** » 2008-05-31 02:04pm

Lonestar wrote:Coiler, how can your country, with a GDP $6,250,000,00 afford all that without making your country destitute?

Even if Shep sold you those DDGs at half the cost, that'll still put you in the area of $400mil for each one of them.

Rifles are dirt cheap as far as military hardware goes, and even the M1 Abrams at a sticker price of US$4.35 million each (or so Wikipedia and Global Security say) and the two minesweepers would fall firmly within his acceptable price range, but with those two Burkes, he's looking at spending a good US$1 billion or so on acquisition costs alone; maintenance fees would drive it up to approximately US$2 billion, give or take several hundred million. Proportionally, even North Korea doesn't spend that much on its military.

I don't think anyone would really mind if I were to dump several thousand surplus M16A2s and M4A1 Carbines on him, though.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2008-05-31 02:21pm

Lonestar wrote:I retract, the PARs are more like the Pave Paws system.

Ah, okay, that makes a lot more sense.

Stas Bush wrote:Okay, why the fuck did Alexandria get a radar? Only against missile attacks? Embargo against Tonkin extended indefinitely.

It's mostly to cover gaps in coverage that the homeland-based radar has. It's certainly not missile-only.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2008-05-31 03:12pm

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote: Rifles are dirt cheap as far as military hardware goes, and even the M1 Abrams at a sticker price of US$4.35 million each (or so Wikipedia and Global Security say)

Dig a little deeper, that's for a product run over over 400, and it's the M1 basic. It costs more for the M1A2, in fact it costs an extra two million per tank. For example Australia recently (2003-2004) bought brand new M1A1 tanks, they bought 59 of them, we charged them 550 million(9.3 million each). Even accounting the extras we threw in and profit margined, thats a minimum of 7 million each. Why? Small run, same thing for all military things. It's 4.3 million for Abrams if you want to make five hundred of the things.

The Merkava meanwhile sells for 4.5 million(export), no idea on internal IDF pricing, only the T-90 sells for less(Export is 2.2 to 3.0 million each for any large sized order)

We run into this over and over again in production, if you want to build allot, it's pretty cheap, if you want to build ten, it's going to be a few billion. See B-2, see F-111, see Abram's, See MRAP, see every single stinking part of the entire US Arms industry.

Coiler · Post by **Coiler** » 2008-05-31 03:25pm

Heh, I guess I miscalculated. Oh well, that's the price you get for having an ambition that outstrips your knowledge of prices......

I'll revise the order down to something more sensible.

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-05-31 03:35pm

hmm, as far as the radar goes, I only posted on it after reading the game thread, so I didn't know it was also a military system until checking this thread. That changes things. Alexander would not accept such a high profile system in his lands without some sort of major concession (it basically says nuke me in case of a war.)

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2008-05-31 03:38pm

Raj Ahten wrote:
phongn wrote:
Raj Ahten wrote:Well Indopal has big gold and copper deposits, and I am now looking or partners to help develop the resources!
Tonkin International Mining?
Well, they came to mind first I want to wait and see if anyone else wants to try, though Tonkin likely ocntrols most of the market and can give Indhopal the best deal.

We'll be happy to assist Tonkin and yourself, should we be needed. International cooperation and all that.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2008-05-31 03:44pm

Raj Ahten wrote:hmm, as far as the radar goes, I only posted on it after reading the game thread, so I didn't know it was also a military system until checking this thread. That changes things. Alexander would not accept such a high profile system in his lands without some sort of major concession (it basically says nuke me in case of a war.)

Whoops, sorry about forgetting to consult you.

There's an egg on my face. If I can't make a deal, there are other things I can do instead.

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-05-31 03:47pm

phongn wrote:
Raj Ahten wrote:hmm, as far as the radar goes, I only posted on it after reading the game thread, so I didn't know it was also a military system until checking this thread. That changes things. Alexander would not accept such a high profile system in his lands without some sort of major concession (it basically says nuke me in case of a war.)
Whoops, sorry about forgetting to consult you. There's an egg on my face. If I can't make a deal, there are other things I can do instead.

DOn't worry about it too much, Alexander's policies have never been made clear before, so lets do that now. So far all forces from other armies in his territory have been there as advisors. He hasn't allowed anyone else to base their operations that aren't directly on the behalf of Alexandria (and is unliekly to do so. He knows the area is a powderkeg.) Unless Tonkin makes a VERY good offer, he is not going to allow the radars to be there.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-05-31 04:40pm

phongn wrote:
Some of us here aren't too familiar with radar systems but are OTH-B systems the best ones to use for detection or should we pair them with other systems like phased array systems?
But if I give away all my secrets, you might not make a mistake and make it easier for the UAR to nuke you

Meh, I said it on IM but I'll say it here too: that's kind of dick-ish, dude. Since you're using basically existing old Earth principles I don't see why you can't offer some help or even pointers. We're not all arm-chair military experts after all.

I mean, IU one would assume we have very smart people in our militaries who know these things. OOC of course we all don't. So it's not like you're giving away "secrets" on any practical level: you're just giving us OOC pointers on things we would already presumably have info on IU.

I mean if you had done some kind of radical new idea never before tested in the original Earth or something, that'd be one thing. But I don't see what's so "secret" about something that's been done before in the real world.

We don't all have mad Google-fu or encyclopedic knowledge like Sea Skimmer, after all.

Raj Ahten
I'll help you out on the mining thing. You asked about economic assistance from me before so here we go. Step one in a process I largely know nothing about. Luckily, I have smart people who work for me that do.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-05-31 04:46pm

I'm no going to have reliable internet access until the sixth. Until then, Tian Xia will be in Ice's hands.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2008-05-31 05:02pm

RogueIce wrote:Meh, I said it on IM but I'll say it here too: that's kind of dick-ish, dude. Since you're using basically existing old Earth principles I don't see why you can't offer some help or even pointers. We're not all arm-chair military experts after all.

I think my tone (and emoticon) rather clearly indicated that I was joking. Sheesh. But it would be nice if people did a little bit of research before asking me.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-05-31 06:08pm

phongn wrote:* whistles innocently *

*pic snipped*

Phase I: IRT OTH-B radar completes primary archipelago-facing nodes.
Phase II: IRT OTH-B radar completes full 360° coverage

Phase III: Alexandria OTH-B radar completes primary archipelago-facing nodes.
Phase IV: Alexandria OTH-B radar completes full 360° coverage

High-bandwidth, dedicated satellite uplinks are being investigated for this. Phase I is nearly complete.

If radios all over Nova Terra start getting a strange tapping noise we're going to be annoyed with you.

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-05-31 06:40pm

Well, for the mining deal, Indhopal is likely to select the Shinra Republic, as they are offering assistance partly as economic aid, and the terms of the contract are therefore going to be more favourable than for the for profit Tonkinites. A small team from Bearne could also stay on, as they did the initial survey and such. Perhaps Bearne would like to partner with my new technical institute in some way?

DarthShady · Post by **DarthShady** » 2008-05-31 06:49pm

yes, however since Hughes Kaiser pulled out, it's going to be a conventional airport/seaport, with some airship capability, and a factory from Norse motors to build civilian vehicles, and to provide repair, rearment and replacement for my central seas Templar II GEV fleet. (the Templar IIs are made out of aircraft grade aluminum, carry a 30mm automatic gun, a .50cal remote gun, and have 4 hard points on the two stabilizer wings (keeps the GEV level during highspeeds and or rough seas) You will probably be able to get your own Templar II GEVS out of that deal)

The hard points can hold TOW, Hellfire, and MLLRS rockets, currently working on a SAM fire control upgrade for the Templar IIs)

Ok, thats great. Please enjoy your stay in the Shadow Empire and let me know if you need any help.

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2008-05-31 06:59pm

Raj Ahten wrote:Well, for the mining deal, Indhopal is likely to select the Shinra Republic, as they are offering assistance partly as economic aid, and the terms of the contract are therefore going to be more favourable than for the for profit Tonkinites. A small team from Bearne could also stay on, as they did the initial survey and such. Perhaps Bearne would like to partner with my new technical institute in some way?

Jolly good. Perhaps an exchange program, with some of my university professors coming to work in Indhopal?

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-05-31 07:05pm

Master_Baerne wrote:
Raj Ahten wrote:Well, for the mining deal, Indhopal is likely to select the Shinra Republic, as they are offering assistance partly as economic aid, and the terms of the contract are therefore going to be more favourable than for the for profit Tonkinites. A small team from Bearne could also stay on, as they did the initial survey and such. Perhaps Bearne would like to partner with my new technical institute in some way?
Jolly good. Perhaps an exchange program, with some of my university professors coming to work in Indhopal?

That would work perfectly.

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2008-05-31 07:05pm

Excellent. I'll make the announcement presently.

TimothyC · Post by **TimothyC** » 2008-05-31 10:57pm

Hey Bean - did you get the check for those 130Js yet?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2008-05-31 11:01pm

MariusRoi wrote:Hey Bean - did you get the check for those 130Js yet?

Transfers are after the first of the year which is tomorrow.

Which is an hour from now.

Coiler · Post by **Coiler** » 2008-05-31 11:34pm

I'm wondering if any of the Nova Terra nations have small, cheap, missile FACs available for purchase.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-05-31 11:42pm

Coiler wrote:I'm wondering if any of the Nova Terra nations have small, cheap, missile FACs available for purchase.

I have a Dromon corvette based on the Swedish Visby stealth corvette, but it's made of demagnetized steel. So you would expect the vessel to have stealth characteristics similar to the French LaFayette.

The maximum price is probably 130 million, i.e. Antiship or 100million for minesweeping and ASW.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2008-06-01 12:05am

I have seven Halifax Frigates I'm trying to sell (Now only 50 million each!)

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2008-06-01 12:07am

Coiler wrote:Heh, I guess I miscalculated. Oh well, that's the price you get for having an ambition that outstrips your knowledge of prices......

I'll revise the order down to something more sensible.

Just remember the numebres in the start of the OP thread as they give the best indication. With a GDP of $6-7Bn your maximum annual expenditure should not exceed $500mil of which at least $300 would go to simply maintaining your existing forces and not new procurment. This means you have at most $200mil to spend on anything new and that's about it...just remember everything new you buy adds to the pricetag of the next year's maintenance costs. Also don't go too high tech as your 2nd world citizens almsot certainly don't have the kind of knolwedge to be able to operate and maintain the best of what a 1st world army can sell you.