[Russian] Generic anti-Saxton bullshit

[Wanderer]

I'm not a "trekkie" ( fan of Star Trek ?), but rather a Star Wars fan....

Irrelevant.


Cao Cao already took care of your retort to me.

[Darth Wong]

I'm sick of people who spew Trekkie-style "I talk with science terms but I don't know any science at all" bullshit and then act as if we should stop criticizing them if they declare that they're actually Star Wars fans. This isn't a fucking partisan political war; it's a matter of determining what does and doesn't make sense. Declaring that someone is on our side doesn't change anything.

[Darth Servo]

We saw in films, what the standard turbolaser bolt could do, perhaps you could think, that films din't show the full power. But what the reason for nit using a full power shots for Rebels at Endor or in the battle for Coruscant (Episode 3).

I see we have another reason to call you an idiot--the fact that you don't know that there are things like HEAVY guns, MEDIUM guns and LIGHT POINT DEFENSE guns and its the last one we see most of the time in the films. By your logic, we should dismiss the firepower of a full Battleship salvo based on the observed firepower of their anti-aircraft guns.

But neither in Episode 6, nor in Ep.3 we saw ships been vaporized, which is inevitable when ship lose it shields if the bolts were 200 GT powerful. The only ships vaporized were MC80 and other rebel shis in Episode 6 fallen under the Death Star-2 blasts ( which were far more powerful then 200 GT....)

Do you even realize you're being self contradictory. You state as a fact your assumption that 200GT would vaporize a SW ship (without any evidence) and then turn around and admit that it takes far more than 200GT to vaporize them in ROTJ.

[Darth Servo]

I'm not a "trekkie" ( fan of Star Trek ?), but rather a Star Wars fan....

We don't care which you find more entertaining. We only care about whether or not you know what you're talking about and so far the answer to that has been an astounding 'not in a million years'

[Darth Servo]

It seem stange that ship armour, that withstands 200 GT yield shots could be easily destroyed by an asteroid impact ( Episode 5),

The ISD in question was NOT destroyed. Its bridge tower was damaged, nothing more.

[Connor MacLeod]

In Episode I it is clearly seen that tusken "rifles" are not firearms, because we see such weapons shoot the same plasma bolts as the blasters do. Perhaps, they are a primitive version of blasters.

In revenge of the Sith we see projectile weapons firing bolts that look like blaster bolts. Concussion missiles and proton torpedoes also look like blaster bolts from a distance, and aren't energy weapons.

About stormtrooper bodyarmour - it is non-resistant to blaster fire in lethal mode, even to weak-powered spoting models.

"lethal mode" is so ludicrously ambiguous with regards to the weapon's output I have ot laugh. I'd also like to see your proof that "weak-powered" sporting models are able to pierce it.

I like how you also ignore:

- In the ANH novelization, a stormtrooper on the Tantive IV has his armor penetrated by a glancing hit, yet the person survives.

- the DK visual dictionaries specify that glancing blaster bolts cannot penetrate stormtrooper armor and make direct hits survivable (meaning it absorbs much of the energy of the bolt.

- In "survivor's quest", stormtrooper armor stands up to blaster fire.

- Rebels are stated in the EGW&T to carry heavy blaster pistols in order to allow them to "reliably" penetrate stormtrooper armor.

- The SWSB says that Stormtrooper armor "cannont stop a heavy blaster bolt" (it also says "no known armor can stop a full power blaster bolt", but it doesn't quantify how powerful " a full power bolt" is supposed to be.

Getting more than a little dishonest, aren't we?

But are blasters much more powerful than firearms?

Yeah they are. Its stated in a number of sources (from WEG's SWSB to more recent books like Shatterpoint.)

No, because as we can see in Episode 6 the blaster didn't cause massive damage ( I mention the scene, where Leia's been shot by blaster... IMHO, the ST armour is more like a modern class II armour according to ballistic resistance, it will hold the pistol bullet, but an AK would pierce through it on its effective range ( it is up to 350 m) like knife through butter...

You're a fucking moron. A bullet is a physical projectile (IE it possesses signfiicant kinetic energy and momentum), which is different from a blaster bolt's effects (IF blaster bolts and projectile weaponry were the same, why the fuck would they call them BLASTERS you fucking twit?)

Oh yeah, and regaridng Leia and ROTJ, I don't supposed you noticed that what the bolt hit, it struck sparks and Leia didn't even visibly react to the impact? (She reacted, in fact, several frames later.) I suppose you're going to tell me SW people have metal in their bodies or she got a cybernetic arm we never knew about, right?

I also like how you fucking ignore in that scene that the Stormtroopers tried to CAPTURE Han and Leia, rather than simply kill them. (They could have shot Han in the back when he turned to aid Leia if that was their objective.) And if you're trying to capture someone, its pretty fucking stupid to use a lethal setting.

And lastly, I still love how you spout all this bullshit without backing it up with a single shred of proof. No references, no calcs, etc. You've clearly taken the Stewarrt at SDI "You cannot percieve my brilliance" approach to debating.

]
We saw in films, what the standard turbolaser bolt could do, perhaps you could think, that films din't show the full power. But what the reason for nit using a full power shots for Rebels at Endor or in the battle for Coruscant (Episode 3).

Wow, more vague claims. Especially against targets whose natures are completely unknown (unless you can tell me the properties of Imperial armor, your claim is irrelevant.)

I always love it when morons bring up "But they didn't look like huge explosions when they hit" excuses from ROTJ or ROTS.

But neither in Episode 6, nor in Ep.3 we saw ships been vaporized, which is inevitable when ship lose it shields if the bolts were 200 GT powerful. The only ships vaporized were MC80 and other rebel shis in Episode 6 fallen under the Death Star-2 blasts ( which were far more powerful then 200 GT....)

And again, moron, you clearly know the properties of the materials the ships are made out of because... "We cannot perceive your brilliance", right?

[Connor MacLeod]

It seem stange that ship armour, that withstands 200 GT yield shots could be easily destroyed by an asteroid impact ( Episode 5), so it seems if the turbolaser shots that powerful once the shields are down, the ship is doomed, just a couple of 200 GT directed energy shots will easily vaporise even an ISD..

Because, as we all know, phyiscal impactors behave EXACTLY like a massless beam of energy (or a beam of particles, for that matter. Incidentally, if you bothered to read Mike's website, you'd notice he'd addressed that issue. If you're too stupid to understand why, try to go do research on the difference between momentum and energy.)

And again, your SDI-seque "I don't need no stinking math to prove my point" bullshit. I guess we're all still failing to perceive your brilliance here.

But I must admit, that SW deflector shields are really tough thing - in Episode 5 an asteroid was vaporized by ISD's deflector...

Which has nothing to do with the point, aside from illustrating that you're a moron when it comes to momentum and energy. (Hint, momentum must be conserved.)

We actually don't know how much of that blast is turbolaser shot, we see an ISD been punctured by 2 bolts ( it didn't vaporise like the asteroids in Ep.5) than there is a powerful explosion ( looks like as the reactor went off)

I like how you contradict yourself here. You claim "we don't know" in this instance, yet you were screaming before that ROTS/ROTJ refuted "200 GT" TL claims as if we CAN measure the outputs in the battle. Rather fucking hypocritical of you, moron.

To me correct are stated in SWTC numbers of turbolaser bolt be about 450 terawatt powerful at maimum, that is enough for asteroid destruction, and it is equvalent to power of approximatly 107 KT nuke, while it hits ground it could produce an explosion ( it was stated it is half a power of Hiroschima nuclear explosion) about enough to destroy a small city, as stated in canon materials...

Wow, more vague, moronic claims that have no references or backing. I also like how you cite SWTC's (Curtis SAxton's site, which while accurate is unauthorized by LFL) to refute.. Curtis Saxton's written, AUTHORIZED SW books. I also like how you cherry pick his evidence, clearly ignoring cases in that site where he states much higher yields (and specifies which are merely lower limits. I guess we can add "lack of understanding of lower limits" to the list of things you fail to grasp.)

I'm not a "trekkie" ( fan of Star Trek ?), but rather a Star Wars fan....

So you're a Pro-Wars moron, then. Big deal. That still makes you a moron.

[Russian]

Now let's discuss the technical side of the question, how powerful the turbolaser bolts are.
But first we need to turn to Star Wars universe's one of the most powerful weapon - Death Star superlaser, it could be stated that its power could be no more than 10E41 joules ( that is estimated average power of supernova explosion) , which are 10 quadrillion tons in TNT quivalent ( estimated power of 100 MT nuke is aboul 10E18 joules) (( most Russian SW sources indicate that Death Star had lower power, about 10E38 joules)). If the turbolasers are 200 GT powerful, as you had states, the Death Star blast ( even if it was 10E41 joules) is equivalent to 50 000 turbolaser shots..
In Episode 5, imperial officer reports to Lord Vader that rebel base shields could deflect any bombardment, but if the turbolaser were 200 GT powerful, and the Executor-class SSD having 250 heavy turbolser batteries ( I doubt that data is correct, it seems there are much more), it would take it only 200 salvos to match the power of the DS superlaser at full capacity. And if we take figure, that a turbolser battery could do 1 shot per 2 seconds, it would take Executor less then 7 minutes to do 200 salvos...
From Episode 4 we could see, that no planetary shields can match the Death Star blast, powerful Alderaan shield was taken down within a fracture of second without the significant lost of power by superlaser blast. So if the turbolaser were 200 GT powerful it would take SSD ( only SSD, not the entire Death squadron) 1-2 minute of bombardment maximum to take down rebel shields. So the statement, that turbolasers are 200 GT powerful contradicts to films, which are considered absolute canon...

[Solauren]

Then later on, after the bombardment, we tossing bolts at asteroids. Vaping asteroids that would require at least 200 Gigatons to do that too....

[Wanderer]

"Snip pointless bullshit ranting"

Please use proper sentence structure and actual mathematics with proper terms. Also show us your Basc in science cause I want to know what college graduated you.

[Kane Starkiller]

Now let's discuss the technical side of the question, how powerful the turbolaser bolts are.
But first we need to turn to Star Wars universe's one of the most powerful weapon - Death Star superlaser, it could be stated that its power could be no more than 10E41 joules ( that is estimated average power of supernova explosion) , which are 10 quadrillion tons in TNT quivalent ( estimated power of 100 MT nuke is aboul 10E18 joules) (( most Russian SW sources indicate that Death Star had lower power, about 10E38 joules)). If the turbolasers are 200 GT powerful, as you had states, the Death Star blast ( even if it was 10E41 joules) is equivalent to 50 000 turbolaser shots..
In Episode 5, imperial officer reports to Lord Vader that rebel base shields could deflect any bombardment, but if the turbolaser were 200 GT powerful, and the Executor-class SSD having 250 heavy turbolser batteries ( I doubt that data is correct, it seems there are much more), it would take it only 200 salvos to match the power of the DS superlaser at full capacity. And if we take figure, that a turbolser battery could do 1 shot per 2 seconds, it would take Executor less then 7 minutes to do 200 salvos...
From Episode 4 we could see, that no planetary shields can match the Death Star blast, powerful Alderaan shield was taken down within a fracture of second without the significant lost of power by superlaser blast. So if the turbolaser were 200 GT powerful it would take SSD ( only SSD, not the entire Death squadron) 1-2 minute of bombardment maximum to take down rebel shields. So the statement, that turbolasers are 200 GT powerful contradicts to films, which are considered absolute canon...

You seriously need to learn math. 1 megaton is 4.184*10^15J. Therefore 200 gigatons (200,000 megatons) is 8.37*10^20J.
Therefore it would take 10^17 or 100 million billion turbolaser blasts to equal one Death Star blast. If we assume that SSD has a million of such turbolaser and fires them every second it would take it over 3000 years to equal the Death Star's blast.

[Batman]

Now let's discuss the technical side of the question, how powerful the turbolaser bolts are.

You have yet to discuss anything. So far you've made bold claims, trfused to back them up with anything (unsurprising as they were patently false), and ignored any and all rebuttals.

But first we need to turn to Star Wars universe's one of the most powerful weapon - Death Star superlaser, it could be stated that its power could be no more than 10E41 joules ( that is estimated average power of supernova explosion) , which are 10 quadrillion tons in TNT quivalent ( estimated power of 100 MT nuke is aboul 10E18 joules)

There's no need to estimate as a MT is quite clearly defined. 100 MT are 4.18E17J.

(( most

Russian SW sources indicate that Death Star had lower power, about 10E38 joules)).

Use peoper notation. It's eithe 1E38J or 10^38J. 10E38J is ten times the value Mikle uses which is, guess what, 1E38J.

If the turbolasers are 200 GT powerful, as you had states, the Death Star blast ( even if it was 10E41 joules) is equivalent to 50 000 turbolaser shots.).

1E38/8.36E20 is marginally more than that, boyo. Try 1.19E17 times. That's 119 trillion shots.

In Episode 5, imperial officer reports to Lord Vader that rebel base shields could deflect any bombardment, but if the turbolaser were 200 GT powerful, and the Executor-class SSD having 250 heavy turbolser batteries ( I doubt that data is correct, it seems there are much more), it would take it only 200 salvos to match the power of the DS superlaser at full capacity.

476 billion salvoes, actually.

And if we take figure, that a turbolser battery could do 1 shot per 2 seconds, it would take Executor less then 7 minutes to do 200 salvos...

IT would, hover, take 3,000,000 years to deliver the same energy as the DS superlaser.

From Episode 4 we could see, that no planetary shields can match the Death Star blast, powerful Alderaan shield was taken down within a fracture of second without the significant lost of power by superlaser blast. So if the turbolaser were 200 GT powerful it would take SSD ( only SSD, not the entire Death squadron) 1-2 minute of bombardment maximum to take down rebel shields.

Wrongo. See above. If you're willing to spend the next 150,000 generations bombarding the shield go right ahead.

So the statement, that turbolasers are 200 GT powerful contradicts to films, which are considered absolute canon...

Only to a math-ignorant moron like you. Can't you even do basic division?

[Darth Wong]

Notice how this ass-wipe totally ignores all of the rebuttals in order to launch into yet another monologue complete with unsupported claims and laughably incorrect math. He's not even trying to debate at this point.

[Surlethe]

Notice how this ass-wipe totally ignores all of the rebuttals in order to launch into yet another monologue complete with unsupported claims and laughably incorrect math. He's not even trying to debate at this point.

He's probably used to some kiddie-forum where his audiences applaud and agree with him every time he stands up and posts something. I suspect the language barrier may have something to do with it, too, but he's probably never encountered an environment where people actually criticize his claims.

[nickolay1]

To me correct are stated in SWTC numbers of turbolaser bolt be about 450 terawatt powerful at maimum, that is enough for asteroid destruction, and it is equvalent to power of approximatly 107 KT nuke

...Another idiot who's too stupid to know the difference between power and energy.

[Batman]

By now, that shouldn't really come as a surprise anymore.

[Cao Cao]

<snip nonsense>

I'm not even going to read this, because you have not bothered to respond to the numerous rebuttals that quite simply leave you without a leg to stand on.
I will tell you this: I suck at math. Hence I don't get into parts of debates with math. Because I would get it wrong, and then I'd look stupid.
Like you are doing. Stop showing your ignorance.

[Darth Wong]

Notice how this ass-wipe totally ignores all of the rebuttals in order to launch into yet another monologue complete with unsupported claims and laughably incorrect math. He's not even trying to debate at this point.

He's probably used to some kiddie-forum where his audiences applaud and agree with him every time he stands up and posts something. I suspect the language barrier may have something to do with it, too, but he's probably never encountered an environment where people actually criticize his claims.

That's an interesting observation. It's true that his general demeanour is that of someone who is accustomed to being viewed as the "expert" in his particular stomping grounds, hence his habit of stating his personal judgment as if it's evidence. Not to mention the way he acts as though he's a lecturer. I'd say he managed to successfully bluff a bunch of kiddies somewhere, and that made him confident enough to spew his idiotic bullshit elsewhere. Too bad he's so goddamned stupid that he can't even operate a calculator.

You really have to wonder how dense someone has to be in order to think that 1E42 (or as he put it, 10E41 ) divided by 8.4E20 is 5E4. Even without using a calculator, any idiot can just look at that and see he's more than a dozen orders of magnitude off.

[Vympel]

I'm sick of the "Leia's arm" argument. That's it, tommorow I'm going screenshot grabbing. I already have a bunch, but I'm gonna get them all- they'd make a good addition to Mike's argument page.

[Rogue 9]

Here's one, but it's the only one I've got of it.

[Meest]

Here's a composite I did from the old debates.

Back on topic, even with his shitty math he doesn't consider that the fleet couldn't hope to match that output instantly, the shield would only be limited to how much fuel they got to sustain it.

[Connor MacLeod]

Now let's discuss the technical side of the question, how powerful the turbolaser bolts are.

We have been discussing it. The fact you shove your head up your ass and pretend our arguments don't exist does not mean the discussion disappea
rs.

But first we need to turn to Star Wars universe's one of the most powerful weapon - Death Star superlaser, it could be stated that its power could be no more than 10E41 joules ( that is estimated average power of supernova explosion) , which are 10 quadrillion tons in TNT quivalent ( estimated power of 100 MT nuke is aboul 10E18 joules)

100 Megatons is ~4.2e17 J (100x 1 megaton, which is 4.2e15 J) Strike one.

(( most Russian SW sources indicate that Death Star had lower power, about 10E38 joules)). If the turbolasers are 200 GT powerful, as you had states, the Death Star blast ( even if it was 10E41 joules) is equivalent to 50 000 turbolaser shots..

ROFLMAO. As pointed out, 200 GT is 8.4e20 joules roughly, which is quadrillions of times more energy than the DS's destruction of Alderaan.

In Episode 5, imperial officer reports to Lord Vader that rebel base shields could deflect any bombardment, but if the turbolaser were 200 GT powerful, and the Executor-class SSD having 250 heavy turbolser batteries ( I doubt that data is correct, it seems there are much more), it would take it only 200 salvos to match the power of the DS superlaser at full capacity. And if we take figure, that a turbolser battery could do 1 shot per 2 seconds, it would take Executor less then 7 minutes to do 200 salvos...

Go look up what a "gigaton" is, moron.

From Episode 4 we could see, that no planetary shields can match the Death Star blast, powerful Alderaan shield was taken down within a fracture of second without the significant lost of power by superlaser blast. So if the turbolaser were 200 GT powerful it would take SSD ( only SSD, not the entire Death squadron) 1-2 minute of bombardment maximum to take down rebel shields. So the statement, that turbolasers are 200 GT powerful contradicts to films, which are considered absolute canon...

Your total ineptitude regarding how much energy is in a megaton or a gigaton does not make the argument valid, it makes us laugh at you for being a complete idiot.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'm sick of the "Leia's arm" argument. That's it, tommorow I'm going screenshot grabbing. I already have a bunch, but I'm gonna get them all- they'd make a good addition to Mike's argument page.

Think you can make a frame by frame of Leia's arm getting hit?

[Batman]

Well as Russian is for all practical purposes done for and I rarely get to make fun of the big shots so...

ROFLMAO. As pointed out, 200 GT is 8.4e20 joules roughly, which is quadrillions of times more energy than the DS's destruction of Alderaan.

I know he simply mistakenly posted 'more' instead of 'less' but leave me my nanosecond or so of infamy.

[seanrobertson]

Russian,

Sean here.

Please, do yourself a favor post-haste: address the rebuttals directed at you.

It is highly likely you will be banned, but the only way you might avert that is if you stop introducing "new" arguments (read: claims addressed and refuted countless times over the past several years), actually stand your ground and attend those rebuttals.

If you have to concede -- which you ultimately must -- do so. Do so convincingly and now. You can learn quite a lot if you manage to stick around these forums -- forums which, in my opinion, are unmatched for discussion of virtually any topic.

You'll thank me later if you set aside your ego now, concede and ask for a little mercy. Trust me.