[data_link] Why not blame the parents?

[Uraniun235]

We all have seen (or at least heard about) the various mass-media "reports" about various things that pervert children into mass-murder-machines (guns, violence in media, etc.).

Why not do a report on just plain shitty parenting? We all know they're out there. We all know they're probably responsible for the most fuckups.

"So, Mrs. Schitt, you say that you forbid your children from reading the newspaper?"
"That's right. There's all sorts of pornography in there, and it will rot their minds faster than Satan himself."
"Pornography?"
"Yes, those racy lingerie ads. I swear, it is this subtle perversion of America that has brought God's wrath on us!"
"Yet little Bobby tells us you let him get drunk on weekends."
"Well, but that's just alcohol, nothing wrong with that."
"Despite the fact that both sides of your family have a history of severe alcoholism."

Oh the hilarity. How I wish the TV networks would have the balls to do this.

[Captain Kruger]

You know why music/movies/TV/video games get all the blame and not the parents? Because the USA has become the I Have An Excuse For Everything capital of the fucking universe. Nobody can take responsibility for their actions. If a kid blows up a toilet with a cherry bomb, is it because the parents didn't teach him right and wrong? Of course not, it must be because of that PS2 game where he gets to use grenades. If a black man murders someone in a drive-by, is it because he's a fucking homicidal asshole with no respect for life? Of course not, he's just expressing his anger at his great-great-grandfather being a slave. Jesus Fucking Harold Christ on seven crutches.

[Wicked Pilot]

Why not do a report on just plain shitty parenting? We all know they're out there. We all know they're probably responsible for the most fuckups.

What causes kids to become fuckups is a very complex question with very complex answers. I'm afraid that you simply can't point the finger at one cause like that. I do agree with you that methods of parenting influence most children's development more than any other factor. You must remember however, that shitheads can come from good homes too.

[Captain Kruger]

What causes kids to become fuckups is a very complex question with very complex answers. I'm afraid that you simply can't point the finger at one cause like that. I do agree with you that methods of parenting influence most children's development more than any other factor. You must remember however, that shitheads can come from good homes too.

What exactly would be your definition of a good home? Are we talking about being well-to-do and having all your needs taken care of or are we talking about parents who know what they're doing? As for the financial definition, yes, kids from middle-class or even upper-class homes can turn out to be shits. I still think it comes down to the parenting, regardless of financial status. If there's been good parenting but a bad kid resulted from it, I think a mental problem has reared its head.

[Uraniun235]

Why not do a report on just plain shitty parenting? We all know they're out there. We all know they're probably responsible for the most fuckups.

What causes kids to become fuckups is a very complex question with very complex answers. I'm afraid that you simply can't point the finger at one cause like that. I do agree with you that methods of parenting influence most children's development more than any other factor. You must remember however, that shitheads can come from good homes too.

Yeah, but then you couldn't point the finger at video games in the same fashion either, could you?

I think it would be simply hilarious to see the reaction of America as the mass-media pointed the finger at parents, saying "Maybe it's not the video games... maybe it's YOU. Maybe some responsibility needs to be taken. By the way, here are a few examples of laughably poor parents."

[Wicked Pilot]

Well, I know I'm not offering much insight into this subject by saying this, but I think that you are trying to discuss something who's complexity goes way beyond this board. People have studied adolecent problems for decades, if not centuries, and concrete answers are still nonexistant. The question of what exactly turns a baby fresh out the womb into a full blown shithead a few years later will probably never be answered. We can always get approximations, like what helps and what hurts, but a definate answer will probably always allude us. Human nature is like that, it doesn't reveal itself easily or quickly. When you add on to that the fact that every human is somewhat different from everyone else, you dive even deeper into the rabbit hole.

In conclusion, more good kids come from good parents than from bad parents, but there will always be a standard deviation. Just make sure not to make hasty generalizations and blanket statements concerning such a complex issue.

[Darth Wong]

I'm with WP on this one, although I would be wholeheartedly in favour of subjecting a parent to the third-degree interrogation if he or she starts trying to blame music, movies, computer games, or secularism for their child's misbehaviour.

[SyntaxVorlon]

No one comes out of the womb an asshole, but blaming the parents for everything is an irrational simplification. Parents are an obvious factor in the development of every child, whether present or not. But so are schooling, money, peers, money, environment, and money. Really everyone learns to cope with their environment, the sad fact is that some cope through violence and hate. Parents play the role of first showing children how they cope with situations, and peers next.

[ArmorPierce]

A big part of it can be placed on the parents, but far from all of it. A parent can't hold the childs hand at all times and he / she/ it will experience outside influences. A good parent will, however, be able to stop a lot of it before it gets to far, but all blame that the kid has done can't single handedly be placed on every single one of their parents.

[Sea Skimmer]

Sometimes, god forbid, its a case of the child being the one at fault. I hate the people who refuse to admit or accept that someone under the age of 18 can make a conscious choice to do something they know is wrong.

[Priesto]

Yes, the media is pathetic concerning this.Parents control how much their child is exposed to things they see or hear.They have a responsibility to teach the child proper behavior.You don't have babysitters or barney do this, it's the parents job.That is what parenting is all about.Today children look up to britney spears and Jay z for guidance.

[Rob Wilson]

We all have seen (or at least heard about) the various mass-media "reports" about various things that pervert children into mass-murder-machines (guns, violence in media, etc.).

The question should be, who let littl Jimmy buy the game, play the game long enough for it to 'affect' him and then failed to notice or act on his changed behavior (obviously he was an angel before the nasty video games and rock music twisted him with Satans will), oh and let him own a gun in the first place ("but he bought it on the black market" with what? you're giving your child $100's in pocket money?).

If the parents were any good then they would have noticed all these things and if they couldn't do anything about it then at least flags would be raised. However, they let TV bring up their kids and don't even try to talk to them or find out about their hobbies/interests. I'm not saying you need to have a 2 hour meeting after each meal, but at least find out something about your child before pointing the finger at anyone else.

And don't try to tell me teenagers don't talk about things to their parents, that's just laziness on the parents side. If the kid won't start a conversation then here's a brainwave, why don't you try to start one like the fucking adult you're meant to be.

But teenage boys don't talk about anything/are sarcastic when you talk to them - Have you ever asked teenage boy what his favourite band/game/book/show is? Once they get past the sarcasm and realise your paying attention you can't shut them up for the next 2 hours.

It might not solve everything, but actually paying attention to you child might just help somehow, hell it might even qualify you to be a fucking Parent rather than a glorified Housemate/cleaner.

Oh, it's good to rant.

[SWPIGWANG]

When you extend casualitic view of human behavior, there can be no fundamental blame.

and if the inverse applies there can be no blame other than the perpetrator.

Only in the fuzzy undefined world inbetween can there be blame. In that case, it can be as rational as the bible.

[Tosho]

In my opinion it's a combination of bad parenting and psychological problems the child might have.

[Andrew J.]

Why not blame the parents?

Because that will make the parents stop watching. It's a matter of ratings, nothing more.

[LadyBarbara]

Why not do a report on just plain shitty parenting? We all know they're out there. We all know they're probably responsible for the most fuckups.

I think I may have found another example of this. In Manhattan, a group of parents is suing McDonald's Corporation claiming that their children (well, technically, they're all teenagers between the ages of 14 and 19) ate there repeatedly and thus became obese, putting said children at risk for further health problems like diabetes and hypertension.

The basis of the lawsuit is the claim that McDonald's didn't adequately warm them [the children] that its meals contained lots of fat, salt, and sugar, while at the same time pushing larger portions of those meals via super-sizing. One parent is quoted as stating that he "always believed McDonald's was healthy for my children." I guess he's not making macrobiotic milkshakes at home, then.

I agree with Rob Wilson's rant. Too many parents place obstacles between themselves and their children (jobs, careers, television, etc) and then whine and moan when the children get out of hand. They look for someone else to blame rather than face the fact that they are at fault.

[Sir Sirius]

Kids are like dogs. If there is something wrong with their behavior the problem is in the owner 99 times out of a hundred.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

One parent is quoted as stating that he "always believed McDonald's was healthy for my children."

Isn't this an example of evolution in action. Dumb parents have dumb kids. Dumb kids eat four or five times a day at McDonalds and grow so fat they explode.

[SeebianWurm]

Natural Deselection

[kojikun]

When a kid goes out and shoots up his highschool and kills numerous people, it's not because he watched too much Matrix and listened to Rammstein, it's because his parents didn't teach him that killing people is bad. Plain as that. When your kid goes and does some horribly despicable crime, its your fault because you have taught your kid some fucked up morals.

Another cause is when a persons emotional foundations conflict. If a person is christian and thinks sex is evil and believes it whole heartedly, but enjoys sex, theres a very good chance he's going to go psycho (literally) because hes wracked by conflicting emotions which he cannot resolve. His fear of god will drive him mad and he'll end up a rapist or a prostitute killer.

[Rob Wilson]

Kids are like dogs. If there is something wrong with their behavior the problem is in the owner 99 times out of a hundred.

"Sit, Cletus jnr! Sit, Peggy-sue!"
----
"Now, you have to remember whenever your child misbehaves you must rub their noses in it and tell them firmly - NO! Except when they have a cocaine problem, as young Phoenix's owners found out."
----
"Yeah, he was out to all hours of the night, fucking every skanky bitch he could find in the clubs and on the streets. Since I had him neutered though he's been the most docile and obedient son you could ask for."
----
"Damn it, jeanie wouldn't stop pissing our money away on frivolous things. I'm sorry dear but she's costing us a fortune in bills, we'll have to have her put down."

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Parents won't blame themselves because not only will they admit they were lousy parents, but blaming others will give them a chance to sue. It's about money, too. If people blame the parents of a killer on a disaster, they can't get money. When they blame it on the media, there's plenty of it. An example would be the parents of the kids killed at Columbine suing the vidoe game industry for $5 billion. Not only is it stupid, frivolous, a blatant attempt to get a quick buck, but I find it despicable that people use a tragedy as an excuse to make money.

[Rob Wilson]

Parents won't blame themselves because not only will they admit they were lousy parents, but blaming others will give them a chance to sue. It's about money, too. If people blame the parents of a killer on a disaster, they can't get money. When they blame it on the media, there's plenty of it. An example would be the parents of the kids killed at Columbine suing the vidoe game industry for $5 billion. Not only is it stupid, frivolous, a blatant attempt to get a quick buck, but I find it despicable that people use a tragedy as an excuse to make money.

And isn't it amazing that they knew the amount of money it would take to totally heal the loss of their loved ones?

Luckily when the next spate of badly raised/abused/attention seekers go on a killing spree, their parents can either blame the news networks; for filling the screens with death and destruction every night and really bringing people down - "Why oh why is there no rating system on the news? My poor jonny would lock himself in his room and watch the gore and carnage thy displayed in homes everywhere. Won't someone take responsibility for his actions that day? I'm desperate to find a scapegoat."

Or they can blame the police for allowing bad things to happen "That nice Mr Speilberg showed that in 50 years we would have telepaths predicting murders and stopping them. Why isn't the police doing this now? Why must more innocent children like... um, damn it's on the tip of my tongue, written on his bedroom door... timmy! - That's it, why must children like my beloved Timmy - or was it Jimmy, it's hard to remember without adding 'you ungrateful little bastard' at the end - die because the police aren't properly utilizing their telepaths?".

Or if all else fails, follow the leader and blame it all on Terrorists "The news is full of these people and the things they do, their actions twisted my son - what? Shit, really? I just thought he was growing his hair in protest or something, Fuck. - Twisting my daughter into the mass murderer she became - look are you sure Mark? After all I only married you 2 years ago, really? A girl?How did you find out... never mind. - I want that bin Laden fella to pay up the money I deserve for the trauma he created by killing my little girl - look are you sure? wasn't there a girlfriend? oh that was a boy with long hair... I really should start paying attention to other people sometime. - The papers all say these terrorists are rich organisations from crime and shit so they had better pay up so i can get over my grief from Janes death at the hands of the SWAT team."

[data_link]

Look, I know that you all are trying to place the blame on the correct person, but did it ever occur to you that sometimes it is THE CHILD at fault? I'm with Sea Skimmer, why the hell is it that no one can accept that sometimes children just decide to do bad things? Why the hell is it that even when people are telling parents not to play the blame game, that they at the same time do it themselves by blaming the parent? Oh right, it's because many of you ARE parents and thus suffer from the delusion (formed when the children are very young) that you can actually control your child. Here's a hint: YOU CAN'T. They are seperate beings from you, and are therefore capable of completely ignoring you if they should so desire and believe me: when you have spent your entire life being the de facto PET of some idiot parent who is very likely dumber than you (due to having more misconceptions engraved into their brains), you very much desire to ignore your parent. I will in fact state that at the age of 16, one single friend will have MORE influence over the behaviour of a child than the parent does: persons who desire evidence of this are welcome to surf over to GP4Teens and note that we are having an EFFECT there: a feat which would be completely impossible if the combined power of parents and churches was actually greater than the effect of a few words posted on a fucking webpage. Why don't we just drop the bullshit act of trying to blame people who are one level removed from the problem and admit that bad actions performed by a kid are the damn KID's fault for being such a fucking moron?

[Rob Wilson]

Look, I know that you all are trying to place the blame on the correct person, but did it ever occur to you that sometimes it is THE CHILD at fault?

I'm confused, perhaps you could point me to the part where i said the child was in no way to blame. Infact, don't I actually attack the point that after the child commits the act (something incredibly dificult to do if the Child isn't responsible for it - unless declared mentally incompetant) that the parents look for any scapegoat outside of themselves. Did you perhaps read my first post on the subject? Where I specifically say that even if the parent has no influence they can at least note the changes in their child and if they are a responsible adult they will report it to the relevant authorities, if they feel they cannot prevent it themselves.
Of course the child shares responsibility, but I was (in the first post) attacking the lack of responsibility the Parents take and (in the second) lampooning/satirising the Sue-'Em mentallity of the modern culture - again linked by refusal to accept any personal responsibility and playing up observed behavior.

Glad I could clear that up before you posted something that made you look like a complete idiot.