[Uther] Star Trek Fans: Pedophiles?

[Zed Snardbody]

Ah. I see where your coming from now.

I was originaly reply to the post the presented the idea that they should be studied so a treatment regime can be put inplace before they become sexualy active. That is what didn't jive with me. I dislike the idea of someone telling an otherwise normal person that they have the warning signs of being a child molester and that they must under go some treatment. Am I taking it to an extreem, somewhat, I will admit.

The problem though is that current research bassicly has no bloody idea what causes it in the first place. The original idea that victims of abuse became abusers has fallen somewhat out of favor, and has lead most psychologists to favor an idea that its a family trait, but from biology or learned behavior has yet to be determined. So yes, absolutly, study them, and try and determine what causes it. But I'm still at a loss somewhat as to what exactly we can do with that information, until a crime is commited.

[Lord Zentei]

Ah. I see where your coming from now.

I was originaly reply to the post the presented the idea that they should be studied so a treatment regime can be put inplace before they become sexualy active. That is what didn't jive with me. I dislike the idea of someone telling an otherwise normal person that they have the warning signs of being a child molester and that they must under go some treatment. Am I taking it to an extreem, somewhat, I will admit.

Think of it as inoculation, then it isn't so bad. And no it wouldn't be "you have warning signs of being a child molester", but "you have warning signs of <mental illness>, but it can be medicated. Are you ok with this prescription?" Most people would say "yes", I think. Even if not all would do so, the number of cases would drop.

The problem though is that current research bassicly has no bloody idea what causes it in the first place. The original idea that victims of abuse became abusers has fallen somewhat out of favor, and has lead most psychologists to favor an idea that its a family trait, but from biology or learned behavior has yet to be determined. So yes, absolutly, study them, and try and determine what causes it. But I'm still at a loss somewhat as to what exactly we can do with that information, until a crime is commited.

Hence the need for more research.

[Robert Walper]

I resent the implication of Star Trek fans being pedophiles.

[Lord Zentei]

I resent the implication of Star Trek fans being pedophiles.

I agree, being one myself.

[Lord Revan]

I resent the implication of Star Trek fans being pedophiles.

thirded.

[UCBooties]

Calm down guys, we are not saying that Star Trek fans are pedophiles, but that there is a disturbingly large proportion (in this documented instance) of pedophiles who are also Star Trek fans. So we are trying to figure out why that is, not saying that someone who likes Trek (me for instance) is more likely to be a pedophile.

[Coyote]

Bear in mind the officer did not completely understand what Star Trek is. He wore a Klingon sash that was confiscated and said "It's a fantasy world where monsters and mutants rule or something" (perephrased). He clearly did not understand it and described something that almost sounded more like D&D or another other fantasy-scifi genre.

To someone who is not a scifi fan, it all looks the same. When I was a kid, my friend Jim got several sets of "Micronauts" for Christmas by his well-meaning grandmother, who was answering his stated desire for "Star Wars toys".

The thing is, which came first-- the pedophelia or the Star Trek fandom? Given what I understand of such things, the pedophelia probably had its roots in the perverts long before, and this escape from reality led to the desire to seek other escapes-- and fantasy/sci-fi, supported by a vast media machine, is an obvious thing for them to cling to. I'd include horror in that too, considering the "Vampire" goth cults that are out there.

I mean, what widely-accepted media based alternate reality is a pedophile going to gravitate towards? Dawson's Creek?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Calm down guys, we are not saying that Star Trek fans are pedophiles, but that there is a disturbingly large proportion (in this documented instance) of pedophiles who are also Star Trek fans. So we are trying to figure out why that is, not saying that someone who likes Trek (me for instance) is more likely to be a pedophile.

While there may be a correlation between being a hardcore Trekkie and being a pedophile, making assumptions based on that correlation alone would be the utmost in folly.

What one needs to look at is the sort of lifestyle and personality someone who is apt to be a hardcore Trekkie will have. If we take the usual stereotype, the sortof creepy, pale fellow who doesn't interact well with women, or most forms of reality, and who keeps to themselves much of the time outside their fantasy world, then we can see a potential clue.(1)

I had this explained to me by an FBI agent once: Say you have a person who is ordinarily nice enough. Except they might have some trouble with relationships and women (or men, just in case one thinks all sexual predators are men or straight.) So they go to an environment where they are more comfortable. Say, online. And they strike up conversations with people of the opposite sex who are perhaps, easier to talk to, or more liable to overlook the things that make it hard for these people to get along with real women. In this case, young teenagers or even children.

They may not be initially aware of how wrong what they're doing is, or they realize it's wrong, but they think that they're different, or special and trouble won't happen to them. Or maybe they just get caught up and don't care that it's wrong because they're experiencing something they wouldn't experience normally. And before long, they get deep enough in that they'll do more and more to satisfy their desires and needs. And the objects of their desire tend to be too easily manipulated, too easily bowled over or overawed and overpowered to meaningfully resist. So the burgeoning predator becomes more and more encouraged, and more and more likely to push the envelope. Until one day, they're written about in a story about the law enforcement officers whose job it was to take them out of circulation.

And all of this stems from that antisocial personality type who has a difficult time with real relationships, and a source of 'easy' marks that can get them started. You can't predict this based on rabid Star Trek fanwhoredom, as any fanwhore who fits the stereotype is at risk.


(1) - Not necessarily applicable to all pedophiles. Though I was told that's how many of the guys the agent in question busted got their start.

[Uther]

LA TIMES?

No freaking way. Now... if it was the NY Times MAYBBBEEEE.

OR try for a BBC link.

The LA Times is far surperior to the NY Times, that pretentious, self-important rag which masquerades as a newspaper.

[RedImperator]

LA TIMES?

No freaking way. Now... if it was the NY Times MAYBBBEEEE.

OR try for a BBC link.

After the New York Times and the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times is the most respected newspaper in the United States; it won a boatload of Pulitzers just last year. Now, do you have anything useful to add to this discussion, or is this it?

[UCBooties]

Calm down guys, we are not saying that Star Trek fans are pedophiles, but that there is a disturbingly large proportion (in this documented instance) of pedophiles who are also Star Trek fans. So we are trying to figure out why that is, not saying that someone who likes Trek (me for instance) is more likely to be a pedophile.

While there may be a correlation between being a hardcore Trekkie and being a pedophile, making assumptions based on that correlation alone would be the utmost in folly.

What one needs to look at is the sort of lifestyle and personality someone who is apt to be a hardcore Trekkie will have. If we take the usual stereotype, the sortof creepy, pale fellow who doesn't interact well with women, or most forms of reality, and who keeps to themselves much of the time outside their fantasy world, then we can see a potential clue.(1)

I had this explained to me by an FBI agent once: Say you have a person who is ordinarily nice enough. Except they might have some trouble with relationships and women (or men, just in case one thinks all sexual predators are men or straight.) So they go to an environment where they are more comfortable. Say, online. And they strike up conversations with people of the opposite sex who are perhaps, easier to talk to, or more liable to overlook the things that make it hard for these people to get along with real women. In this case, young teenagers or even children.

They may not be initially aware of how wrong what they're doing is, or they realize it's wrong, but they think that they're different, or special and trouble won't happen to them. Or maybe they just get caught up and don't care that it's wrong because they're experiencing something they wouldn't experience normally. And before long, they get deep enough in that they'll do more and more to satisfy their desires and needs. And the objects of their desire tend to be too easily manipulated, too easily bowled over or overawed and overpowered to meaningfully resist. So the burgeoning predator becomes more and more encouraged, and more and more likely to push the envelope. Until one day, they're written about in a story about the law enforcement officers whose job it was to take them out of circulation.

And all of this stems from that antisocial personality type who has a difficult time with real relationships, and a source of 'easy' marks that can get them started. You can't predict this based on rabid Star Trek fanwhoredom, as any fanwhore who fits the stereotype is at risk.


(1) - Not necessarily applicable to all pedophiles. Though I was told that's how many of the guys the agent in question busted got their start.

I am not assuming or predicting anything. I am merely noting the pattern and asking why that pattern exists. I have said numerous times now that I do not think that any fandom leads to pedophelia, I was simply trying to figure out what made one fandom more appealing than another. Now there have been some reasonable theories postulated, including lack of distinction between fandoms for the officers in question as well as a predilection towards escapism among pedophiles. You yourself brought up some interesting points. But stop being so damn defensive and stop ascribing me to a position I have now denied multiple times. This is one set of cases and there's a pattern, I'm not making blanket accusations.

[Loner]

A blogger found that the LA Times article was a bit wrong.

[Elheru Aran]

A blogger found that the LA Times article was a bit wrong.

To elaborate:

This has very little to do with the normal topics of this blog, but yesterday the LA Times (reg. req.) published an article regarding the Toronto Sex Crimes Unit that focused on their fight against child pornography (Sifting Clues to an Unsmiling Girl). They are the law enforcement organization that photoshopped the victims out of child porn photos in order to get the public's assistance in identifying the backgrounds (it worked). In any case, the article had this amazing claim:

On one wall is a "Star Trek" poster with investigators' faces substituted for the Starship Enterprise crew. But even that alludes to a dark fact of their work: All but one of the offenders they have arrested in the last four years was a hard-core Trekkie.

Wow. All but one in four years. Seemed rather unlikely to me.

So, I called the Child Exploitation Section of the Toronto Sex Crimes Unit and spoke to Det. Ian Lamond, who was familiar with the LA Times article.

He claims they were misquoted, or if that figure was given it was done so jokingly. Of course, even if the figure was given jokingly, shouldn't the Times' reporter have clarified something that seems rather odd? Shouldn't her editors have questioned her sources?

Nevertheless, Detective Lamond does claim that a majority of those arrested show "at least a passing interest in Star Trek, if not a strong interest."

They've arrested well over one hundred people over the past four years and Det. Lamond claims they can gauge this interest in Star Trek by the arrestees' "paraphenalia, books, videotapes and DVDs." I asked if this wasn't simply a general interest in science fiction and fantasy, such as Star Wars or Harry Potter or similar. Paraphrasing his answer, he said, while there was sometimes other science fiction and fantasy paraphenalia, Star Trek was the most consistent and when he referred to a majority of the arrestees being Star Trek fans, it was Star Trek specific.

A weird factoid. Nevertheless, it is not correct that "all but one ... in the last four years" was a hard core Star Trek fan.

The section quoted from the Times article is in italics, it was indented in the blog but I couldn't figure out how to do that in the quote.

In any case, I find this rather interesting...

[Avalon616]

A blogger found that the LA Times article was a bit wrong.

Ok, after reading that: RAGE! I hate journalists who take a random line and adjust it to make their story more interesting. >.< Gee, a lot of pedophiles are interested in science fiction = all are hardcore trekkies?! Gah!

And look, all our theorizing was for nothing. Grrr...

[UCBooties]

yes, misquoted, but you did read the part where he clarefied it was specificaly Trek. It's not as extreme as first presented, but there could still be somthing to this.

[Master of Ossus]

yes, misquoted, but you did read the part where he clarefied it was specificaly Trek. It's not as extreme as first presented, but there could still be somthing to this.

He describes it as if there's a clear correlation between pedophilia and Star Trek, but it's also obvious that it's not nearly as strong as was originally reported.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

And you know what the second worse scum are?

That's right: journalists...

[AdmiralKanos]

LA TIMES?

No freaking way. Now... if it was the NY Times MAYBBBEEEE.

OR try for a BBC link.

The LA Times is far surperior to the NY Times, that pretentious, self-important rag which masquerades as a newspaper.

Obviously, Uther has not yet clued into the fact that when I tell someone he'd better answer me, I do not tolerate being deliberately ignored.

Uther's pedophilia trolling has been followed by Uther deliberately ignoring my demand that he justify his actions as something other than trolling. And that can only be followed by this:

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Ding dong, baby!!

[The Yosemite Bear]

I don't know what scares me more. That sick fucks like this exist, or the fact that this confirms wayne poe's allegations about some the sexuality of some of our more infamous trolls....

[Darth Wong]

Ding dong, baby!!

Hey Uther, do you know for whom the bell tolls? It tolls for thee

[Castor Troy]

heh heh heh.

Another one bites the dust.

We certainly seem to be getting more idiots nowadays...

[HemlockGrey]

Wow, has Banathon IV topped the others yet?

[SirNitram]

Wow, has Banathon IV topped the others yet?

I'm still betting May 20th and then on for about two months will be the true Banathon. This is mere rehersal.

[sketerpot]

They may not be initially aware of how wrong what they're doing is, or they realize it's wrong, but they think that they're different, or special and trouble won't happen to them. Or maybe they just get caught up and don't care that it's wrong because they're experiencing something they wouldn't experience normally. And before long, they get deep enough in that they'll do more and more to satisfy their desires and needs. And the objects of their desire tend to be too easily manipulated, too easily bowled over or overawed and overpowered to meaningfully resist. So the burgeoning predator becomes more and more encouraged, and more and more likely to push the envelope. Until one day, they're written about in a story about the law enforcement officers whose job it was to take them out of circulation.

That sounds pretty plausible, but I still find it incomprehensible how they could go from guilty sexual predation to this sort of sickness:

One day last year, they discovered pictures of a 6-year-old girl cowering in a dog cage, her gaze perplexed and despairing. In another, her hands are bound, a hunting knife is pressed to her abdomen, and messages are written on her body in a red substance meant to look like blood: "Hurt me." "Kill me." "I'm a slut." Her face is flushed purple. She is crying.

That paragraph is what really got me. Damn it, I shouldn't think about this stuff at night.