If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by General Zod »

PunkMaister wrote: Wow! So what would then constitute for you absolute solid proof that SGverse hyperdrive is not thwarted by the gravitational shadows of celestial objects while in transit and ships can even enter hyperspace to go from one side of a planet to the other without hitting it unlike SWverse hyperdrive?
You, less than ten posts ago wrote:Explain to me how having hyperdrive that is not subject to being interfered by gravitational shadows and can thus go thru stars, planets or whatever is in the way not be a tactical advantage to anyone in the SW galaxy...
Don't be a dipshit. If you're going to make claims like this one then you should provide examples instead of screeching hyperbole and demanding that people prove it's not useful. Fortunately for you Starglider already listed some.
I think this incidents being "situational" or not clearly show that they can go thru the mass and gravitational shadow of celestial objects. That and the fact that when ships plot a course in SGverse hyperrdrive they do not bother themselves with carefully plotting around "navigational hazzards" as they have to do with SW hyperdrive. Now if not having to worry about such things and simply plot and go and being able to finally have actual Intergalactic travel is not a tactical advantage then I don't know what is...
Intergalactic travel was not inherently a technological limitation in the SW verse. It was due to a hyperspace disturbance surrounding their galaxy, which may or may not interfere with Stargate hyperdrives.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Count Chocula »

Perhaps an alternative explanation for hyperdrive is in order. I throw this out as a "what-if," not as anything definitive, since I'm about four seasons behind on SG-1: is it possible that the Ancients' hyperdrive is a different manifestation of the gate and ring transporter technology? Take two examples cited above: jumping through a Hatak's shields, and going into a "hyperspace window" on one side of a planet and appearing at the opposite side of the planet.

We already know from the SG movie and series that there are visual (perceptual) effects associated with gating. Perhaps Ancient ships' hyperdrive is a method of generating two "gates," or hyperspace entry and exit points, without the necessity of having a gate at each end. If consistent, then a ship would not actually go through a planet, but would be gating "past" the planet on another plane altogether.

Either way, a functional Asgard hyperdrive would be an asset: hell, Han Solo would pay a fortune for one if it would make the Falcon even faster!
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Starglider »

Count Chocula wrote:Perhaps an alternative explanation for hyperdrive is in order. I throw this out as a "what-if," not as anything definitive, since I'm about four seasons behind on SG-1: is it possible that the Ancients' hyperdrive is a different manifestation of the gate and ring transporter technology? Take two examples cited above: jumping through a Hatak's shields, and going into a "hyperspace window" on one side of a planet and appearing at the opposite side of the planet.

We already know from the SG movie and series that there are visual (perceptual) effects associated with gating. Perhaps Ancient ships' hyperdrive is a method of generating two "gates," or hyperspace entry and exit points, without the necessity of having a gate at each end. If consistent, then a ship would not actually go through a planet, but would be gating "past" the planet on another plane altogether.
This was a reasonable hypothesis early in the show's run but it has been shown to be incorrect. Matter transporters (rings, Asgard beams) work by diassembling the subject, streaming the particles to a remote site (at sublight speeds) and reassembling them. Stargates work on the same principle, but they open a wormhole in order to send the particle stream thousands or even millions of light years near-instantaneously. There have been numerous episodes that have illustrated the fact that gates work by dissassembling and reassembling objects.

Hyperdrives on the other hand shift the whole object into another 'dimension', which seems to have very little interaction with normal space. Hyperdrive travel is not instantaneous; either the hyperspace dimension is physically smaller, or its speed of light is higher (outside of the bubble of 'conventional physics' generated by the drive); in any case unlike B5 hyperspace there seems to be a consistent stable mapping of hyperspace position to realspace position. The 'dimension shift' basis of Stargate hyperdrive was further illustrated in Atlantis by the fact that the drives can be modified to shift the ship between entire alternate realities. This is fundamentally different from how SW hyperdrives work (at least, according to the popular tacyhonic theory), but not necessary incompatible, as SW physics also has a concept of 'subspace' (used for comms and sensors but not travel).

The drive you seem to be proposing did actually appear in the final episode of Atlantis, but this was explicitly not a normal hyperdrive, and was capable of instantenous jumping similar to the BSG jump drives. Interestingly while Stargate hyperdrives aren't affected by intervening masses, Stargate wormholes are; if the LOS between two connected Stargates intersects a star it can cause time travel or disruption of the star's fusion reactions, and if it passes close to a black hole it can cause the wormhole to connect to alternate realities. It seems reasonable to assume that the wormhole drive would have similar issues and require SW-style jump calculations (though probably much less elaborate, as the degree of interaction is lower) to use safely.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by PREDATOR490 »

SG Hyperdrives have demonstrated the ability to jump through objects but what use is that going to be to SW realistically ?
Additionally, In at least one instance SG hyperspace has failed to operate properly due to outside forces. Grace and Exodus / Enemies.
The latter of which had a supernova affect a Goa'uld Hatak's hyperspace travel and hurl it into another galaxy so I do not imagine SG Hyperdrive can just 'plot and go' completely.

The increase in speed that SG hyperdrive would be the main advantage, being able to pass through things is rather pointless. Would it not be highly discouraged due to the danger of some pilot jumping out at the wrong time and smacking another ship or planet at extreme speed ?
Being able to jump through things has a potential military application. Get a hyperdrive equipped torps that 'jump' through shields and hit the internals of the target. I would expect it to be better for things like Torpedo Spheres rather than ship-to-ship combat.

I dont see much else being of use to SW. The Ancient warships dont have sensors like Atlantis has demonstrated and the drones are rather lacking in firepower for SW military application. I could see the ship getting hauled off to a shipyard to be scrapped once any looters discover they cant operate the thing without the Ancient gene.
Then again, if this ship was crewed then some of the systems maybe useable since not all Ancient tech requires everyone who operates it to actually have the gene.
In that case, I would expect the greatest resource would be the databanks / logs so any looters can grab starcharts / other tech that might be more useable.

If they can figure out how the ship got into SW then they can potentially get back to SG and search for the better piecies of tech. Going to Atlantis would be the logical option in the case.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Count Chocula »

Starglider, thanks for the details. I stand corrected.

Unfortunately, you've given me something NOT to like about SG-1, damn you! It appears that the Asgard rings and transporter beams would be equally repugnant to the SW galaxy as Star Trek's transporters, given that they disassemble a person then reconstruct them at the destination - albeit with a lot more on-screen success than Trek.

Asgard shields might be intriguing, though: if I remember correctly, they only have one layer of shields that protect against both matter and energy effects. Assuming Wars ships have separate particle and energy shields, this could simplify SW systems considerably.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Alyeska »

General Zod wrote:Can you at least list specific examples? It's not exactly easy keeping track of 9+ seasons of Stargate material and I'd rather the people making the claim actually backed it up instead of having to dig through all of my DVDs.
Season 5, episode 17. They use a Teltac shuttle to expand a hyperdrive window around an entire asteroid and use it to pass through Earth. They fire the Hyperdrive from a distance of less then that of the moon. So they pass through a solid object and they use hyperdrive in the presence of a gravity well.

Season 7, episode 1. The first production F302 uses its hyperdrive for a short tactical jump for the purpose of bypassing the shields on Anubis's flagship. This allows them to conduct a strike under the shields.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Alyeska »

Stargate hyperdrives can be affected by gravity, but only super massive amounts. Asgard cannot enter Hyperdrive while very near a Blackhole. The official maiden flight of the Prometheus also had trouble, but this was gravity waves affecting the reactor itself, not the hyperdrive. So while gravity can influence hyperdrives, they are significantly less affected than SW drives. With the addition of being able to pass right through solid objects and even shielding, there is a clear technological advantage here. A weapons potential that any organization in Star Wars would see.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by PunkMaister »

Alyeska wrote:
General Zod wrote:Can you at least list specific examples? It's not exactly easy keeping track of 9+ seasons of Stargate material and I'd rather the people making the claim actually backed it up instead of having to dig through all of my DVDs.
Season 5, episode 17. They use a Teltac shuttle to expand a hyperdrive window around an entire asteroid and use it to pass through Earth. They fire the Hyperdrive from a distance of less then that of the moon. So they pass through a solid object and they use hyperdrive in the presence of a gravity well.

Season 7, episode 1. The first production F302 uses its hyperdrive for a short tactical jump for the purpose of bypassing the shields on Anubis's flagship. This allows them to conduct a strike under the shields.
The Ring Transporters are not Asgard but Ancient tech stolen by the Goa'uld would the SW civilization really find that repugnant a transport technology that is millions of years older than their own civilization and safer than their own hyperdrives by a factor of 10 or more?
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Starglider »

Count Chocula wrote:Unfortunately, you've given me something NOT to like about SG-1, damn you! It appears that the Asgard rings and transporter beams would be equally repugnant to the SW galaxy as Star Trek's transporters, given that they disassemble a person then reconstruct them at the destination - albeit with a lot more on-screen success than Trek.
That dislike is a completely unsubstantiated theory that seems to have been created primarily by posters here as a slur on Trek transporter technology. Frankly I don't know why people bother, Trek transporters are already pretty limited compared to other forms of teleportation seen in sci-fi. But anyway, I can't see any reason to think that SW humans would be less likely to use transporters than Federation humans, or Stargate humans, or for that matter real life humans. The notion that the Federation somehow indoctrinated its populace into using transporters is pretty much disproven by the fact that nearly every other spacegoing species in the Trek galaxy uses them too (and of course pretty much every species in the Stargate universes uses the gates without bizarre philosophical issues). Finally, the one canonical example of teleportation in SW that I'm aware of (those matter-transmitting hoop things) seemed to work by a similar mechanism and that didn't freak anyone out.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Starglider »

On a different tack, a major unknown with ZPMs is how easy they are to produce. ZPMs have incredibly power density, if you could make a dense block of say a million ZPMs it might well make a decent SW capship reactor (or you could distribute the ZPMs throughout the ship for improved redundancy). In Stargate, they're only encountered in single digit quantities and it's never been shown what it takes to produce them, but presumably it's difficult as the ancients didn't seem to be able to equip all their ships with them never mind keep spares on hand. The SW galaxy regularly manipulates energies and forces on a scale several orders of magnitude above what typical Ancient technology seems to use (plus they simply have a massively larger economy), so it's possible that SW would find ZPMs fairly easy to mass-produce. Certainly you'd think that charged ZPMs would be easier to ship around than hypermatter and refueling would be less frequent, a potential logistics advantage.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by PunkMaister »

Starglider wrote:On a different tack, a major unknown with ZPMs is how easy they are to produce. ZPMs have incredibly power density, if you could make a dense block of say a million ZPMs it might well make a decent SW capship reactor (or you could distribute the ZPMs throughout the ship for improved redundancy). In Stargate, they're only encountered in single digit quantities and it's never been shown what it takes to produce them, but presumably it's difficult as the ancients didn't seem to be able to equip all their ships with them never mind keep spares on hand. The SW galaxy regularly manipulates energies and forces on a scale several orders of magnitude above what typical Ancient technology seems to use (plus they simply have a massively larger economy), so it's possible that SW would find ZPMs fairly easy to mass-produce. Certainly you'd think that charged ZPMs would be easier to ship around than hypermatter and refueling would be less frequent, a potential logistics advantage.
The replicators (asurans) did not seem to have any problems making them so much so that just before their planet blew up the Wraith managed to beam up quite a cache of them which they then used to adapt into a hive ship and turn it into a truly Ubber Hive ship capable of intergalactic FTL and almost nearly impervious to enemy fire.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

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PunkMaister wrote:The replicators (asurans) did not seem to have any problems making them so much so that just before their planet blew up the Wraith managed to beam up quite a cache of them which they then used to adapt into a hive ship and turn it into a truly Ubber Hive ship capable of intergalactic FTL and almost nearly impervious to enemy fire.
That tells us nothing about how many Asuras has, or how quickly they're produced, though. All we know for the full number that the Asurans had is that it was (obviously) greater than ten (accounted for in different episodes), probably far so, and that it was "Many. Truly, I do not know the exact number."
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Stargate Nerd »

NecronLord wrote:
Ancient shields are capable of resisting them, however, so it's an open and insoluble question whether they'd penetrate any other sci-fi shields. Personally, I'd presume not, when dealing with shields (such as Star Wars' - the particle ones at least) that are of generally higher tolerances than the Goa'uld's.

.
Does it even matter in the end? The Drones had problem's punching through the Uber-Hive's increased armor. I'm sure it would be no different against the armor of a Star Destroyer.


And about the Stargate Hyperdrives. We have seen several times that a better power source improves the performance of hyper drives, whether Human or Goa'uld. So a Stargate hyper drive paired with a Star Wars power source would probably improve by leaps and bounds.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Sky Captain »

I can see SW smugglers wanting to pay a fortune for hyperdrive that allows jumping just after takeoff before even leaving atmosphere. That would make interception a lot harder.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Chris OFarrell »

Stargate Nerd wrote:
NecronLord wrote:
Ancient shields are capable of resisting them, however, so it's an open and insoluble question whether they'd penetrate any other sci-fi shields. Personally, I'd presume not, when dealing with shields (such as Star Wars' - the particle ones at least) that are of generally higher tolerances than the Goa'uld's.

.
Does it even matter in the end? The Drones had problem's punching through the Uber-Hive's increased armor. I'm sure it would be no different against the armor of a Star Destroyer.
Why?

I do get sick of this no maths 'Its SW, therefore its pure win' attitude from people at times.

Explain WHY the Uberhiveship armor is less sophisticated or durable then SW ships? Explain How you know this? I'll point out that Asgard beams and Drones can slice through Wraith Hiveships normally like a hot knife through butter, but against the Uberhive, they didn't do much more then make pretty explosions on the surface.

When stuff like Asgard beaming technology has actually shown a moderate ability to pass through shields, WHY does SW automatically get a free pass, when they have never actually been shown to stop *any* matter/energy transporter technology at all?

Dito Drones, which appear to have an ability to pass through certain shield technologies but not others, why do people automatically declare SW into that 'other' catogory, without even a cursory analysis of the technologies??


I'd like to see a lot more facts from some people in this thread...

Now with that said.

I'd have to say that SG Hyperdrive would have some interesting possibilities, especially in siege tactics you see in SW planetary assaults. Until someone comes up with a way to interdict an SG1 hyperdrive, a lot of the SW doctrine is going out the window. Bloody hell, the Rebels could just hyperspace a Corvette into the DS reactor area, blast the Hypermatter reactor, then jump out! Screw the Battle of Endor...
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by An Ancient »

It would probably be safer to assume that since the SW-verse shield manfacturers have not been seen to encounter weapons like the Ancient drones there would not be any real chance of them resisting those weapons. The Puddle Jumper O'Neill used had never met a Ha'tak before, yet it's drones had no problem going through it's shields.

Citing the Uber-Hive doesn't really help much, aside from that, drones haven't had any problems against non-Ancient tech, and given what that Hive was up to, who knows what that stuff was made of, given that the armour's manufacture was somehow connected to the new power source it could be a material entirely superior to anything seen elsewhere.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by NecronLord »

An Ancient wrote:It would probably be safer to assume that since the SW-verse shield manfacturers have not been seen to encounter weapons like the Ancient drones there would not be any real chance of them resisting those weapons. The Puddle Jumper O'Neill used had never met a Ha'tak before, yet it's drones had no problem going through it's shields.
Spurious. The physics of the shields is going to be about the same. Goa'uld ships even contain items of older Ancient technology, duplicated. (Transporter rings). A craft from a different universe with different development is going to be very much more different.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

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Star Wars ships have ECM jamming and point defence systems, the latter of which should be able to cut drone swarms down to some degree. Although realistically, I dont see Drone swarms being much use in capital ship warfare except at closer ranges. The drones will take time to reach the target and if they swarm then point defence weapons should be able to blast entire lines of drones as they approach.

I could see drones being used as an improved Anti-Fighter weapons system or method of intercepting incoming warheads but whats the use in packing a finite number of drones when you have massively more destructive Turbolasers that cannot be intercepted and easier to aim ?

There is no indication that SW could manfucature Drones let alone in the kind of quantities that would be required for the larger capital ships. Although arming them on fighters might be more useful in the long run or as ground based weapon platforms. Even if they do breach shields, they are going to be of minimal damage to larger ships except in large swarms or against vulnerable locations which relegates them to more of a support weapon.

As for 'jumping into shit'. It should be noted that noone in SG has adopted this tactic and only in times of desperation. Jumping into the reactor of the DS is a rather epic exageration. One fuck up and the ship ends up plowing into the DS which costs them a ship, a crew and potentially failing the mission. Even more likely if the target is mobile and you dont have a good blueprint of what your jumping into.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

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An Ancient wrote:The Puddle Jumper O'Neill used had never met a Ha'tak before, yet it's drones had no problem going through it's shields.
First off we do not know that. It is merely an assumption. Second since the Goa'uld are technological scavengers we have no idea if they invented or stole the Ha'Tak shield design. So watching that scene all we can say for sure is that a pair of drones can destroy a Ha'Tak.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by An Ancient »

NecronLord wrote:Spurious. The physics of the shields is going to be about the same. Goa'uld ships even contain items of older Ancient technology, duplicated. (Transporter rings). A craft from a different universe with different development is going to be very much more different.
And this makes it superior/invulnerable how? Just being 'different' isn't enough, especially when you don't know how the drones work, or really how SW shields work, the principle the drone uses to bypass the shields could be something both shielding systems have in common, it could be as simple as 'drone detects energy field, drone performs tiny itty-bitty micro-jump through shields and continues on it's merry way', it could be some technobabble frequency stuff, it could phase slightly out of this reality and simply ignore the prescence of anything in it's path. You don't know, I don't know, no-one knows. However, the observed ability of the drones is that they do go through shields, SW ships have not demonstrated resistance to this form of technology, so to assume they are somehow 'immune' simply because you wish them to be is not sound reasoning.

To try and even begin to come up with counter-arguments, you have to rely on assumptions with little or no proof that Goa'uld systems must be similar to Ancient ones, and SW systems must be radically different (in a superior way, not an inferior way that would leave them vulnerable I might add), and that the drones must be a specifically calibrated weapon unable to adapt to various environmental factors. And why all these unfounded must statements? Because you're trying to make the facts fit the assumption (that SW shield are immune to drones), which is the wrong way around.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Batman »

Wars (capital ship) shields ARE radically different in that they are orders of magnitude more powerful than SG shields. I also don't think we've ever seen skintight ship shields when in Wars for most ships they seem to be the norm.
Onus to prove that drones would be able to penetrate Wars shields is on the people who claim they CAN. NecronLord is perfectly correct to point out that since most of the shields in the series are closely technologically related (and appear to behave in much the same way) to assume they can penetrate any other shields is preposterous, especially when you have no fucking clue as to how they did it.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

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Chris OFarrell wrote:
Why?

I do get sick of this no maths 'Its SW, therefore its pure win' attitude from people at times
Explain WHY the Uberhiveship armor is less sophisticated or durable then SW ships? Explain How you know this? I'll point out that Asgard beams and Drones can slice through Wraith Hiveships normally like a hot knife through butter, but against the Uberhive, they didn't do much more then make pretty explosions on the surface.
And little Darts whose energy weapons cause small explosions also seem to do serious enough damage to the hull of a normal Hiveship. In fact a swarm of Darts seems to be a sufficient threat against a Hive ship as seen in the episode in which Teyla play's Todd's queen. But that's neither here or there.

You can correct me if I'm wrong but I've always been under the assumption that armor is stronger the denser the material used is and that organic matter doesn't match metal in durability. Based on that assumption I think it's safe to assume that drones that have trouble penetrating really thick self generating organic armor would be equally troubled when faced with a set of armor that has to be able to protect a Star Destroyer from 3 digit Gigatons and higher level weaponry for at least a short while.

When stuff like Asgard beaming technology has actually shown a moderate ability to pass through shields, WHY does SW automatically get a free pass, when they have never actually been shown to stop *any* matter/energy transporter technology at all?
See that's the thing, I'm not arguing whether or not Drones can penetrate Star Wars shields. I'm saying that even if that is the case Drones should have problems with the Heavy Armor present on Star Destroyers, for the reasons given above.
Dito Drones, which appear to have an ability to pass through certain shield technologies but not others, why do people automatically declare SW into that 'other' catogory, without even a cursory analysis of the technologies??
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by NecronLord »

An Ancient wrote: and continues on it's merry way', it could be some technobabble frequency stuff,
It almost certainly is, given that such a thing is known to be possible and cited as a possibility for missiles (and something similar is shown in use for transport beams) in Stargate.

Hell, if you run at the exact right speed at a goa'uld shield, you can pass right through. This is normal humans, sped up with a super-virus.
To try and even begin to come up with counter-arguments, you have to rely on assumptions with little or no proof that Goa'uld systems must be similar to Ancient ones,
Aside from the crystals they use, and the transporter rings, and the fact that the knowledge of the ancients lets a character open the hood of a tel'tak and start modifying it proficiently, and hell, that he knows what the power cell of a staff weapon would be capable of...

Aside from these, I have little or no proof that goa'uld systems must be similar to Ancient ones.


And then there's the fact that I'm talking about physics; in SG, there is, as far as we know, one way to make an energy shield. It's logical to presume that any species' shields follow the same physical principles. It is not the same when dealing with a different setting; a (Doctor Who) Dalek's personal force shields and a (warhammer) refractor field. Though obviously, they're both close enough for a wheel to be a wheel and a hammer to be a hammer, they come from universes with different physics, presumably their more sophisticated technologies have different functions.
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PunkMaister
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by PunkMaister »

OK If I may make a few quick observations here:

1. While is true that Goa'uld tech is partially based on Ancient Tech it does not mean it operate in exactly the same manner. For example Anubis supership had very powerful shields but this shields suffered from gaps when working in an atmosphere as seen when he attacked in the episode "Homecoming" that's how Lord Yu and the other Goa'uld managed to attack his ship while hovering above the city. However the shields of Atlantis have never, ever shown this type of weakness and neither have Asgard shields.

2. Passing thru shields: Again this is something that as I recall only happened once in the show if it a mayor weakness it has never, ever been exploited again, all other occasions that people have used transporter rings are to ships that are cloaked or their shields are not up. One thing I have to add as well is that we don't even know if the Ha'tak that was destroyed by the puddle jumper had it's shields raised or not. The Goa'uld being as arrogant as they are I would not be surprised if they deemed the little puddle jumper and it's weapon system as harmless until it was too late. Again passing thru shields has only been observed in Atlantis only once when they were attacked by who turned out to be a lost renegade tribe of Asgard and given the Asgard level of technology it could be that they simply transphased or something like that. No one else before or after has been able to go thru Atlantis shields in this fashion and if it were possible to make a hyperspace jump to skip Atlantis shields the Wraith would have done it long ago and never did nor has anyone else for that matter.
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Re: If Ancients (SG) tech is found in the SW galaxy....

Post by Solauren »

#1 - Anubis's super ship was damaged when it was attacked over Jonas's planet. That was the whole point of the initial attack that jumped through the shields in the first place; To take take Anubis's anti-fleet weapon, and damage the ship to give the other System Lords a chance to beat the tar out of him.

#2 - We've never seen the hyperdrive trick used again because the only ships we know small enough to pull it off without a high level of risk are hyperdrive equipped Fighters like the X-301, the F-302. (possibly hyperdrive equipped Puddle Jumpers, but I don't watch Atlantis).

I'd also like to point something out with Anubis's shields; they appear to be immnue to phasing technology. You'll recall the destruction of the Tolan homeworld. They were using some sort of Phased Ion Cannon technology to destroy Gou'ald ships in 2 - 3 shots. The only instance we've seen it hit a Gou'ald ship, it appears to ignore the shields (unless the Gou'ald were too stupid to raise shields when entering a hostile powers territory, which they are not).

When faced with Anubis's shield technology, Tolan ion cannons prove useless (and Asguard weapons prove less effective then normal).

Considering Anubis was using knowledge he got from being ascended with the Ancients (at least that he could have learned as a Gou'ald), and the amount of other Ancient refinements and technology he was using, I think it's reasonable to assume Anubis's ships had Ancient shields.
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