Graeme Dice

[MKSheppard]

At one point the vendetta in ASVS included calling college admins and informing them of Ryan's past criminal history.

Wait, what the fuck? This is the first I've heard or known of it.

ALso, I would like to point out that Dice's trolling, wall of ignorance, and vendetta against me go way back. Out of a random search of "Graeme Dice" and "Ryan" I uncovered this gem of a thread from 2003:

Link

Page six of that thread is great:

No you fucking moron! We asked for you to prove the correlation multiple times pages ago and the best answer we got was red herring bullshit about secondary emissions and backpeddling.

You got that because that was always my argument. Ryan Crierie aka MkSheppard is simpy an idiot who was run out of ASVS for verbally attacking the children of another member, and for various other tantrums he threw. Ask him sometime about why he got kicked out of university. He's a worthless creep, and I don't need to bother dealing with him with any level of respect.

I could probably find a whole bunch of other threads like that; it happens about like once or twice a year; Graeme pops out of nowhere and trolls the hell out of a thread I'm in, and then tosses in completely unrelated ad hominem arguments generally like:

"Psst hey, you guys do know that Ryan is a worthless sack of shit right? (or variations on that theme)"

[Samuel]

I can't believe it Sheppard! I just can't!

Your real name is really Ryan?

Do you have any idea why GD has a vendetta against you? What happened in AVAS?

[Sea Skimmer]

I can't believe it Sheppard! I just can't!

Your real name is really Ryan?

What, you really thought he was in command of GDI? He’s blatantly NOD material....

[MKSheppard]

What, you really thought he was in command of GDI? He’s blatantly NOD material....

Funnily enough back in like 1997-1998; I was trying to think up a log-in ID for use with AOL or later Erols Internet (RCN bought them out a while ago); and since I was a big Command and Conquer Fan; as well as GDI fan, I decided to use General Shephard's name; though I didn't know he had only one p instead of 2 ps, and I assumed his name would be something like Mark, and it turned out that I was right!

An oversight by Westwood Studios had his last name officially spelled as both "Shepherd" and "Sheppard" within the Command & Conquer manual. He was played by Eric Martin.

Anyway, as for NOD material; I've never actually played the NOD Missions.

[Havok]

This guy is ridiculous. Whether or not all, one, two or none of the accusations that GD seems to just casually throw out about Shep, I got a nice little PM basically saying the same thing, but including "woman beating", are true, it is not this assholes place to give out personal information about another member no matter how wide spread that knowledge may be perceived to be.

Fuck this guy. Let him twist.

[MKSheppard]

I got a nice little PM basically saying the same thing

You too? I wonder how many people he's PMed all together.

BTW, I got a nice little PM from him too:

---------------------------------------

No, you're the one moving the goalposts here; kind of like your attempt to bring in events outside the board which occured about a decade ago, and have no revelance to the discussion at hand.

The "events" in question are definitely relevant. They illustrate that you are a worthless sack of human flesh that is barely worthy of being called a human. They illustrate that you aren't capable of operating as a human being in normal society and that you should still be locked up to protect us all from yourself. But then, I guess that you'd rather hide behind board rules, continue to wank to military porn, and continue to pretend that you have something worthwhile to add to any discussion. But then, seeing as how you are so vile that you got kicked out of university for beating up women I don't expect anything better from you.

The events in question are relevant because they demonstrate that your opinions are as worthless as you.

-------------------------------------

Can't you feel the ?

BTW, I like how having actual knowledge of history constitutes "military porn". I guess we could say the same about anyone on ASVS or SDN, "wanking to science fiction, and make believe".

[Havok]

Since Shep OK'ed this, here is the PM I got from GD...

Wow. That is one of the worst, most unwarranted things I think anyone has said about someone on this board. Congratulations douche.

That's because I don't deal nicely with women beating, child threatening, people who try and shoot their father as he he's driving away. Call it a character flaw if you like I guess.

Like I said, whether or not any of this is true, it is not this dick heads "responsibility" to spread the information, not to myself, or anyone else. So I will ask again, as I asked in the thread Edi locked that this came from... Why is this guy still here?

[MKSheppard]

People should grow up, most of you were in high school or barely out of it back then, Shep sure as shit did

I have a dark confession to make. I was a battleship fanwhore/troll on Sci.military.naval for quite a while, before I found ASVS. Now, I'm cured of my battleship love; but if you put the Shep from 1995/96 on here today, I'd be quite a dicknozzle regarding military knowledge:

"RAR BATTLESHIPS GREAT! GUNS GREAT!"

[MKSheppard]

Actually, from what I hear, Skimmer -- Dice has been doing this campaign of PM messaging people in threads that involve both him and me for a while.

By the way, since you mentioned

He could have just said, ‘I don’t fucking like Shep, but I’ll keep it out of the forums and just ignore him’ or could have just stayed silent

I'm sure you guys all know that there are....issues between me and Duchess of Zeon from past battles between the two of us a while back on the board; but I'm perfectly fine as it is with the current state of events between the two of us -- a quiet ceasefire where we don't snipe at each other constantly and turn the board into a neverending battleground.

[Rogue 9]

Well, as long as we're sharing...

Oh, Jesus fucking Christ.

Look Graeme, I'd ask if you took stupid pills this morning, but I know better, because you're pretty much always like this.

Thanks for poisoning the well. Are you aware that Sheppard made death threats against Charles Sonnenburg's children, got kicked out of university for hitting a girl who was in his dorm room and wanted him to pay attention to her, and shot at his father when he tried to take his rifle away? Do you understand now why I react badly whenever he pollutes threads with his very presence? He's a piece of human scum who doesn't deserve to be tolerated in polite company.

I wasn't aware of his threatening Sonnenburg's kids, but I know the rest. I'm no particular friend of Shep's, but none of that makes him automatically wrong on this or any other issue. I understand you don't like him, but letting your dislike drive you to make yourself look like an ass accomplishes nothing but making you look like an ass. You were driving on in that thread long after it was clear that your position was untenable just because you don't like Shep, and that's not going to make other people particularly respect what you have to say.

I still don't know why he wasn't banned years ago. The thing is that I agree with you, so I really can't argue against what you've said. I simply find that Shep is the one and only person in the world that I truly hate, and I always have trouble seeing why anybody else doesn't also hate him. He's a living, breathing example of an unrepentant criminal and he revels in it. Were there some way to killfile him I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Lord Revan]

I dunno maybe it's just that I've not been frequent at the right forums, but Shep has never come across as unrepentent crimimal to me (and definetly not one would revel or glorify that aspect), in fact I didn't know about the whole thing until someone told me.

while there's alot of subjects I disagree (some even strongly) with Shep, I definetly agree that Graeme Dice was so out of line it's not even funny

When I saw GC's last post on that thread in HoS before it got locked, I could not help but to think of a line from Prince Arthas in Warcraft 3 "Nothing shall prevent me from having my revengence, old friend, not even you".

I mean Graeme Dice's whole purpose of being on this board seems to be to troll threads shep is in, really does he have anything against shep that isn't 10+ years old?

I ain't a fan of Shep, but for the Name of the Light, give it a rest, there's no reason to bring shep's past into a discussion unless it's somehow truly relevant to it and ad hominens (or how ever you spell it) never are relevant to the discussion.

[Coyote]

Stuff from 10 years past certainly is relevant, because it displays a... vendetta! A decades-long nurturing of one, in fact.

That's not merely a vendetta, that's fucking stalking.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Stuff from 10 years past certainly is relevant, because it displays a... vendetta! A decades-long nurturing of one, in fact.

That's not merely a vendetta, that's fucking stalking.

Is it a crime in US law for this sort of thing?

[Coyote]

That's not merely a vendetta, that's fucking stalking.

Is it a crime in US law for this sort of thing?

Technically, yes. But it would involve Shep filing charges, collecting the evidence, and going through a lot of trouble that, frankly, Dice isn't worth.

[Uraniun235]

He's a piece of human scum who doesn't deserve to be tolerated in polite company.

This strikes me as the money quote right here, and it helps me articulate the feeling I've had for awhile now - this isn't just a vendetta, this is some kind of sick crusade to banish Shep.

[Eleas]

These are my two cents; adjust for inflation.

Technically, yes. But it would involve Shep filing charges, collecting the evidence, and going through a lot of trouble that, frankly, Dice isn't worth.

Quite. Also, if one has problems with a member's behaviour, I think it's important to consider whether a) that behaviour is relevant today, or even b) whether it actually happened. Now I came down on Shep before, and that may be. He and I don't get along, and we've both learned to shut up about it and even (Ryan may correct me here) be cordial toward one another at times. Despite this past history I cannot recall Shep doing all these things.
Furthermore, no matter what I'd think of him, or indeed any poster, I'd never be stupid enough to engage in some sort of campaign of public shaming. Not only is it redundant (it's usually enough to point out mistakes when they're made, and to make one's opinions known, unless the object of your ire is an unrepentant asshole), it's cowardly to boot. We didn't rule against vulturing because the vultures were saying contrafactual things; we did it because it was sycophantic mob behaviour.

I also think it surpassingly ironic that Dice would trot out his well-worn charge of "poisoning the well" and then do just that in the very next sentence.

This strikes me as the money quote right here, and it helps me articulate the feeling I've had for awhile now - this isn't just a vendetta, this is some kind of sick crusade to banish Shep.

Yep, looks like. And the funny thing is, most things Shep actually did of which Graeme Dice complains? They were done during his ASVS period. Yeah, it was a different time, and we were a lot rougher around the edges, but all the same, doesn't it seem a bit arrogant of a non-moderator to try and expel a member of one forum for something said member did in a completely different forum, before this forum was even conceived? This isn't ASVS, and onetime membership of that board doesn't give us the authority to conduct moral purges.

[Solauren]

Mr. Dice is, quite frankly, being a complete and utter fucking asshole, and that's all there is too it.

MkSheppards's real/personal life is no one's business but his own, those directly connected to it, and those he chooses to make it the business of / offer the option of making it their business.

This includes any criminal activities he may or may not have; commited (or been involved in), convicted of, accused of, assoicated with, or possesed knowledge of.

An examination of Mr. Dice's posting history on this board appears to indicate a clear vandetta against MkSheppard. The cause and details of are none of our concern. Mr. Dice's pursuit of this vendetta is.

Mr. Dice is in clear violation of the rules, and apparently only participates in the board due to his apparent vandetta with MkSheppard.

I so no further need for discussion on this issue, beyond deciding the length of required ban.

I'd vote Permaban if I was in the senate, as it's clear this isn't behaviour that's going to clean itself up.

[Lord Revan]

I think it's quite telling that we got people who have issues with Shep coming to defend him, yet I've not seen anyone trying to dismiss or defend Graeme Dice's actions.

As said the cause and/or details of the vendetta aren't our problem at all, what is our problem how ever is the threads Graeme Dice is wreaking due to persusing this vendetta, as those could have been source of valid and intresting view points, but I don't and probably most others don't wanna raise any of those points, if it causes the thread to be flooded with posts saying essentially "*insert member* is a meany and I don't like him" like some 2 year old. This is, I would think why there's the rules against vendettas and dismissing members point due to not liking him/her.

Like all crusades, moral crusades even by just 1 man have nothing good come out of them.


I'm not a member of the staff so I'll hold my opinion about what punishment I'd find suitble, but I'll say this, if a person only apparent reason for being on this board is to pursue a vendetta that has little to none to do with this board, do we really want him here?

[Coyote]

It is also worth noting that regardless of what Shep's past with the law may include, he hasn't hidden it here and society has already carried out the punishment it saw fit to assign, and he has completed that punishment.

To continue to harass him over that provides no reason for a person to bother try rehabilitating himself. I find Dice's vendetta petty.

[Graeme Dice]

Do you have any idea why GD has a vendetta against you? What happened in AVAS?

The reason is very simple. Shep was convicted of attempted murder. I supported him at the time because I thought he had a simple anger management problem and could still pick himself up if he tried hard enough. He then got into a fight with a girl at college and was expelled because of it. Around the same time he made threats against Chuck Sonnenburg's kids. At some point, one has to cut off former friends that act in such an antisocial manner. Now I find myself continually incredulous that people who know of these events are still willing to deal with him.

I was told by the mods to take my disagreement with Shep to PMs, so I did that. Every PM I sent was a response to posts in the relevant thread. That's not an organized campaign, that's an attempt to defend myself when I'm told that I'm not allowed to post about it publicly.

[Guardsman Bass]

Do you have any idea why GD has a vendetta against you? What happened in AVAS?

The reason is very simple. Shep was convicted of attempted murder. I supported him at the time because I thought he had a simple anger management problem and could still pick himself up if he tried hard enough. He then got into a fight with a girl at college and was expelled because of it. Around the same time he made threats against Chuck Sonnenburg's kids. At some point, one has to cut off former friends that act in such an antisocial manner. Now I find myself continually incredulous that people who know of these events are still willing to deal with him.

Then why are you still here, if you wanted to cut him off? You could have just left the board, or ignored him.

[Aaron]

The reason is very simple. Shep was convicted of attempted murder. I supported him at the time because I thought he had a simple anger management problem and could still pick himself up if he tried hard enough. He then got into a fight with a girl at college and was expelled because of it. Around the same time he made threats against Chuck Sonnenburg's kids. At some point, one has to cut off former friends that act in such an antisocial manner. Now I find myself continually incredulous that people who know of these events are still willing to deal with him.

I was told by the mods to take my disagreement with Shep to PMs, so I did that. Every PM I sent was a response to posts in the relevant thread. That's not an organized campaign, that's an attempt to defend myself when I'm told that I'm not allowed to post about it publicly.

Have you given any thought to the fact that Shep is not that guy anymore? That was over ten years ago, he is older and more importantly. he has made something of himself. He works for the Post Office, a job that IIRC requires you to be bonded. Exactly how much time needs to pass before a person can be considered reformed? Or does he require to meet some nebulous standard of your own devising? Things change and so do people, give it up.

[rhoenix]

The reason is very simple. Shep was convicted of attempted murder. I supported him at the time because I thought he had a simple anger management problem and could still pick himself up if he tried hard enough. He then got into a fight with a girl at college and was expelled because of it. Around the same time he made threats against Chuck Sonnenburg's kids. At some point, one has to cut off former friends that act in such an antisocial manner. Now I find myself continually incredulous that people who know of these events are still willing to deal with him.

I was told by the mods to take my disagreement with Shep to PMs, so I did that. Every PM I sent was a response to posts in the relevant thread. That's not an organized campaign, that's an attempt to defend myself when I'm told that I'm not allowed to post about it publicly.

I see. And who here nominated you the great and holy Inquisitor whose noble and sacred duty is to proclaim misdeeds far and wide, particularly when they are irrelevant to the topic at hand? Or was this a real-life ceremony we of lesser faith aren't privy to?

Put less sarcastically, and more bluntly: nothing you just said could possibly justify the actions you've chosen to do. All of your actions assume that Shep has not changed as a person at all since he did those things, when several long-time users here have commented at different times that he has. Your actions state that you are unwilling to grant that possibility, in favor of demonizing him. This says far more about you than it does about him.

[MKSheppard]

Shep was convicted of attempted murder..

Shows how much you know, you fucking nimrod. I pled guilty to Assault One and recently, I've been getting a lot of papers from the State of Maryland about how the case is being wiped from their computers.

Wow, Expungement is such a nice thing, hun. I'm sure the great State of Maryland thinks I'm a ticking time bomb ready to go off in a mass slaughter thingy, that's why they expunged my criminal record. Yeah. Sure.

And of course, you get just about everything wrong. Expelled? Hahahhaa. If you call a decision to just leave RIT on your own being expelled; I guess we'd have a lot of people who decided to leave college on their own defined as "expelled".

[Solauren]

Graeme Dice.

Get the fuck off this board.

Shep has paid this debt, and you're problems with him are both dated, and apparently inaccurate.

This board is for MATURE people. You have proven you do not meet that qualification.