Five questions that evolutionists can't answer

[Darth Wong]

BTW, what the fuck is he talking about when he says that the Ptolemaic System produces accurate predictions "to this day?" Geocentrism was proven wrong because it does NOT produce accurate predictions. Copernicus and Galileo buried it by showing precisely that.

Does this retard actually think that geocentrism produces accurate predictions?

[Dark Hellion]

It produces some relatively accurate predictions, if you are using Ptolemaic accuracy. It also uses something like 50 or so epicycles, and takes several hours to do even simple calculations. It is convoluted and overly complex (not to mention wrong) which was why it was thrown out. It made decent predictions, but only because they modeled it backwards, figuring out a system that would fit the facts, and altering accordingly, instead of finding the system and then verifying it to the facts.

[Darth Wong]

When someone says that something makes accurate predictions "to this day", he is implying that nobody has done better, not that it's accurate in the "horseshoes and hand grenades" sense.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

It produces some relatively accurate predictions, if you are using Ptolemaic accuracy. It also uses something like 50 or so epicycles, and takes several hours to do even simple calculations. It is convoluted and overly complex (not to mention wrong) which was why it was thrown out. It made decent predictions, but only because they modeled it backwards, figuring out a system that would fit the facts, and altering accordingly, instead of finding the system and then verifying it to the facts.

Giant interlocking crystal spheres in the sky with about 50 epicycles or so requires one to assrape Occam to believe in.

[Dark Hellion]

Sorry, should have had a rolly eyes. I was being sarcastic, because of course it doesn't really work. Ptolemaic standards of accuracy where abysmal, so it was very ad hoc.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Honestly, I think he's a troll who is just getting a kick out of wasting your time.

I think there are churches that have people log onto various evil secular messageboards and spam cut-and-paste arguments, and that this fool is one such.

Is that how humans came to be? Did the monkeys assimilate the dna of another species and then become humans?

We didn't come from monkeys, we came from apes. We ARE apes. Just balding, smart ones. Well, smart in some cases.

As for DNA, last I heard a few percent of our DNA is believed to be from other species, thanks to retroviruses.

And as for your idea that no new information ever appears in DNA, that's just wrong; we have ample examples in nature, and it's implied in the imperfect nature of DNA synthesis/replication, as Mr Wong points out. We see it all the time, in such things as lethal dominant genetic defects that can only appear due to mutation, because they kill anything that has it before they can breed. And in cases of chromosome duplication. And in cancer cells, which wildly mutate and evolve while we watch. And in an immense number of other things. Arguing against evolution and claiming God created us is almost as stupid as arguing against gravity, and claiming that God is actually holding us down by the ankles.

[Darth Wong]

It's interesting how people like this have no problem accepting harmful mutations, but they can't seem to recognize the possibility of benign or beneficial mutations. You hear it all the time from them: they say that mutations are always harmful, without a shred of evidence other than their say-so. It's all part of their "we keep falling from our original perfection" meme, which they never justify other than to keep repeating it.

[Superman]

My dad was a typical fundie when I was growing up, and I remember him once telling me that "a mutant cannot reproduce its mutation."

Forget the fact that every creature is a mutant (fuck you, X Men), to blatantly exclaim such a stupid phrase only shows how ignorant he was about biology. At that point in his life, though, he wouldn't hear or consider anything else. It's almost as if this ignorant fundie state has to be grown out of...

[Napoleon the Clown]

Time travelling this fucktard back to see T-Rex stomping around eating things that had a pulse not too long before may not work. He'd probably be convinced it was some massive conspiracy contrived by Satan and the Atheist Liberal Socialist Fascist League (with contributions by the Illuminati) to destroy his faith.

Superman, that's exactly it. It's something they have to grow out of on their own. You can't cure them of it. Either they mature past fairy tales or they don't.

[Mange]

Antibiotic resistance.

Beyond that, since bacteria reproduce by fission without an exchange of DNA, the differentiation between populations into species is more difficult to define. Typically we define the point of separation into different species when isolated populations will no longer spontaneously breed with each other if reintroduced; that's not a definition that works with organisms that don't actually breed. This makes it hard to decide when bacteria populations that have been adapting to different environments have actually diverged into different species.

It's actually much easier with fruit flies. Via artificial selection, you can pretty easily split a population and into to groups and cause each group to differentiate from the other enough that it will no longer breed with the other when reintroduced.

Neither of those points to evolution.

They do, provide evidence otherwise.

They can be explained as variation that is already in the gene pool. Do we know if there were bacteria that weren't resistant to the antibiotics that we have?

What? If you claim that it's anything else than a beneficial mutation, then back it up.

What we have done is eliminate most of the bacteria that isn't resistant, thus leaving the resistant ones behind

Newsflash: That's natural selection.

We can play semantics here, but that is not a result of evolution. Again, the dna was dna that was already in existance, and not a case of new dna resulting from a mistake in dna synthesis. This has is simply a trait that dna has.

You don't have a clue what evolution is or how it works. You have shown this fact several times now.

Does any other organism have this trait? Is that how humans came to be? Did the monkeys assimilate the dna of another species and then become humans?

We're not bacteria and our ancestors weren't "monkeys". Again you show your complete ignorance on human evolution. Have you finished school yet? I certainly don't hope so. Learn what evolution is and the mechanisms of evolution before spouting the next time.

Are you familiar with the Ptolemaic System? This is a classic example that demonstrates the very real possibility that a theory can make accurate predictions, as the Ptolemaic System can do to this day, and still be completely wrong.

What "accurate predictions" does the Ptolemaic system yield?

I submit that this is one reason why evolution is not proven. We simply have not obtained enough evidence to rule out all other possibilities, and we do not have enough evidence to prove evolution to be correct.

You have repeatedly shown that you don't know jack shit about evolution and know you're showing that you don't know anything about science. Nothing can be proven 100 %.

This last quote is the closest you have come to admitting what I've been trying to get you to admit. Evolution is a convenient theory. If I were to not believe in a God that created the universe, then I would need an explanation as to how life came about. After all, we are here, and there must be a reason for it.

Why must there be a reason for it? And as for God creating the universe, I think it's arrogant (and stupid) to think that God created the entire universe for our benefit. We live in a ordinary galaxy which we share with hundreds of billions of other stars and galaxies. On top of that there are hundreds of billions of other galaxies which holds countless of stars and people think that some God created that for the benefit of humans? That the "truth" is a book of fairy tales written when people didn't have the means to understand their surroundings and relied on superstition to explain the world? Superstition which has been used to justify murder and bigotry throughout history. It's appalling.

I find it very suspicious though that in a universe so devoid of intelligent entities, that such amazing order and structure would come about by complete random chance. Given the odds, would it not be more likely that no life, and especially sentient life would have sprung up completely by chance?

Hey fundie, natural selection is anything BUT random and the processes behind abiogenesis has been replicated.

[mr friendly guy]

It's interesting how people like this have no problem accepting harmful mutations, but they can't seem to recognize the possibility of benign or beneficial mutations. You hear it all the time from them: they say that mutations are always harmful, without a shred of evidence other than their say-so. It's all part of their "we keep falling from our original perfection" meme, which they never justify other than to keep repeating it.

Its funny how he argues against mutations existing with the "no new information is created" line, yet at the same time is arguing that mutations are harmful. How the hell does he work out that mutations are harmful if he says they don't even happen?

[wishful]

You know what, all you guys/gals want to do is twist everything I say. You are an imbeciles, incapable of producing an ounce of honest debate. I will discuss this with you no further.


I'm sorry to have came here to waste your time.

[SirNitram]

You know what, all you guys/gals want to do is twist everything I say. You are an imbeciles, incapable of producing an ounce of honest debate. I will discuss this with you no further.


I'm sorry to have came here to waste your time.

Run along and come back when you grow a spine, kiddie.

[Superman]

You know what, all you guys/gals want to do is twist everything I say. You are an imbeciles, incapable of producing an ounce of honest debate. I will discuss this with you no further.


I'm sorry to have came here to waste your time.

Bwahaha...

Nobody saw that coming... Fundies are so damn predictable.

[Mange]

You know what, all you guys/gals want to do is twist everything I say. You are an imbeciles, incapable of producing an ounce of honest debate. I will discuss this with you no further.


I'm sorry to have came here to waste your time.

That certainly came from the right person...

[General Zod]

You know what, all you guys/gals want to do is twist everything I say. You are an imbeciles, incapable of producing an ounce of honest debate. I will discuss this with you no further.


I'm sorry to have came here to waste your time.

Translation: Waaah! Waaah! The atheists are being mean! Waaah!

[wautd]

You know what, all you guys/gals want to do is twist everything I say. You are an imbeciles, incapable of producing an ounce of honest debate. I will discuss this with you no further.


I'm sorry to have came here to waste your time.

Yes, crow back in your hole where you'll be sheltered from mean Reality again

[Adept]

Golly, what a surpr....

Oh wait, of course it isn't.

Ciao, coward.

[Dooey Jo]

You know what, all you guys/gals want to do is twist everything I say. You are an imbeciles, incapable of producing an ounce of honest debate. I will discuss this with you no further.


I'm sorry to have came here to waste your time.

Aww, running home to write some Christian rock on your guitar? You know, the one you betted that no-one could answer your original points? My my, that's very honest of you. Of course, the second you posted that, everyone knew that you were going to be a dishonest asswipe and would never own up to what you said, but hey, by running away I'm sure you'll look like a great martyr to your fellow creationists. Chickenshit and stupidity is the stuff martyrs are made of, after all. Bye-bye now, little man.

[Ritterin Sophia]

You know what, all you guys/gals want to do is twist everything I say. You are an imbeciles, incapable of producing an ounce of honest debate. I will discuss this with you no further.


I'm sorry to have came here to waste your time.

Well, I honestly didn't see this, you actually complied with the board administrators demand that you debate the points brought against you or face punishment, I... oh wait... no you didn't.

[Darth Wong]

If we're such imbeciles, then why couldn't he explain what was wrong with our points, the way we were dismantling his points? I guess his vast intelligence must be soooo superior that he can't even figure out how to explain his super-intelligent thoughts to our tiny minds.

But of course, our minds have been warped by education, whereas his mind is free of that corrupting influence.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

You know what, all you guys/gals want to do is twist everything I say. You are an imbeciles, incapable of producing an ounce of honest debate. I will discuss this with you no further.


I'm sorry to have came here to waste your time.

Unfortunately, it's true. You can't produce honest debate when one side refuses to debate. However, your refusal to debate in no way makes us imbeciles.

By the way, you're going to be tortured for all eternity for your denial of the Gods, may they take you as a sacrifice to sate their all-destroying wrath.

[Darth Wong]

Since he has announced he is leaving, should we just ban his account now and immortalize his stupidity in the Parting Shots forum?

[SirNitram]

Since he has announced he is leaving, should we just ban his account now and immortalize his stupidity in the Parting Shots forum?

Of course. He's broken enough rules to be banned. We can stage a show trial, of course, but I think it's an open-shut case.

[Edi]

I'm very much in favor of that.