neoBSG vs. B5 aliens

[Skylon]

We've had a few threads about the neo Galactica vs. B5's Omega-Class Destroyer and Viper mk II vs. Starfury threads...but how do the following scenarios sound?

Galactica vs. Narn Heavy Cruiser - I lean towards Galactica. The Narn Cruisers never seemed to have a strong point-defense system like the EA Omega and I'd guess Vipers could swarm the shit out of it.

Galactica vs. Centauri Primus-Class Battlecruiser - Tough. Based on "The Fall of Night" it seems to, like Galactica have rapid fire weapons, but then again Starfuries seemed to do considerable damage to one in said episode.

Galactica vs. Centauri Vorchan-Class Attack Cruiser - Always seemed like fast, maneuverable bastards to me. I'd give this one to the Centauri.

Galactica vs. Minbari Sharlan-Class War Cruiser - Really not sure what to say here. Does Galactica use nukes? Does the Minbari stealth tech work against the Colonials? I'd give odds to the Minbari though.

I think Galactica has good odds against most of the League.

[Noble Ire]

Wasn't it determined that the weaponry thrown around in the B5 'verse is significantly more powerful than that of neoBSG? Considering that each of the vessels you mentioned is a pretty formidable warship in its own galaxy, the odds in any contest should be pretty one sided (kiloton versus megaton firepower, IIRC).

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Babylon 5 does not have megaton level firepower except for the few nukes they use. Their shipboard energy weapons are in the kiloton range. There are no concrete numbers for the Galactica, except a faked explosion that looked like a 50kt nuke and a 50mt citykiller bomb.

[Noble Ire]

Babylon 5 does not have megaton level firepower except for the few nukes they use. Their shipboard energy weapons are in the kiloton range. There are no concrete numbers for the Galactica, except a faked explosion that looked like a 50kt nuke and a 50mt citykiller bomb.

I stand corrected; nevertheless, if their energy weaponry is still in the kiloton range, they would still likely outclass Colonial vessels, since nukes seem to be relatively big killers in space battles (even the Pegasus was nearly destroyed by only a handful of them), and even Narn ships can churn out energy blasts at a far superior rate, not to take them from other ships.

[Noble Ire]

Ghetto Edit: Not to mention take them from other ships.

[Netko]

In all those scenarios you have the problem mentioned in the nBSG vs B5 attack fleet thread: namely, nBSG Battlestars have very slow projectile weapons with very limited firepower compared to B5 races, while Vipers are basicly useless against capships (same as B5 fighters BTW - in B5 the fighters are a danger to capships only in so much that they can damage exterior mounts like weapons, PD, etc., but they need capship support to actualy breech the armor and destroy the target, as seen in the Centauri cruiser vs B5 battle at the end of season 2).

With Galactica being limited in its ability to even bring the enemy into effective combat range (as mentioned, its projectiles are slow so the battle would have to be fought at knife range to even allow Galactica a chance to do damage), at best I would give it a tie against some of those combatants.

Specificly,

The Narns have cannon BVR weapons on their cruisers (energy mines) which have a proximity anti-fighter effect and thus can wipe out the Galactica's fighter wing even before they engage and afterwards they can evede the Galactica and keep fireing long range until it is sufficiently disabled and then move in for the kill. Still, if Galactica manages to get a jump on them (inside the minimum range of the energy mines) I would give it to Galactica if they utilise the lack of close in PD of the Narns to do to them what B5 and fighter wing did to that Centauri cruiser, namely destroy the external mounts and then close in for the kill. But starting at range, they are screwed.

Against the Centauri they are screwed. Their PD is decent close in and Vipers seem to have less firepower then Starfurys and would as such take much longer to destroy its external mounts, which would give it time to swipe them out of the sky. After that, its back to long range blasting of the Galactica.

Minbari - the Nials clear away the Vipers, then again long range blasting.

Against the various league worlds it has a better chance, but I would still give them equal chances at best.

The main problem here is that Galactica is basicly a carrier with very good onboard PD, but its fighters pretty much suck compared to B5 fighters and it is going up against cruisers with limited fighter deployment capability. Even if there was parity in firepower (which is doubtful), the matchup handicaps Galactica.

[Anguirus]

What's wrong with the Narn point-defense, anyway? I don't think they have true interceptors like EarthForce, but in "Acts of Sacrifice" we saw one spitting out pulse fire from several mounts against Centuari fighters.

The Narn ships pretty much have decent pulse cannon coverage, huge forward weapons mounts, and their energy mines are killer. They are not lacking in firepower, but being one of the younger races, they tend to get nailed by ECM (just like Earth vs. Minbari).

[Spanky The Dolphin]

There are no concrete numbers for the Galactica, except a faked explosion that looked like a 50kt nuke and a 50mt citykiller bomb.

"Faked explosion"?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

There are no concrete numbers for the Galactica, except a faked explosion that looked like a 50kt nuke and a 50mt citykiller bomb.

"Faked explosion"?

Apollo used some technobabble in the miniseries to make it appear Colonial One had been destroyed in a nuclear explosion.

[RedImperator]

There are no concrete numbers for the Galactica, except a faked explosion that looked like a 50kt nuke and a 50mt citykiller bomb.

"Faked explosion"?

By far the most egregious technobabble in the entire reimagined series. During the miniseries, Apollo uses some whatsit on Colonial One to generate an electromagnetic something or other that looks like a 50kt nuclear detonation on DRADIS. How you can do that without generating 50kt worth of X-rays and gamma radiation is beyond me. I believe Moore apologized for that scene later.

[NecronLord]

In all of these cases, with the possible exception of the Minbari (I'd assume their jamming would work on the nBSG forces, as they seem about equiv-tech to the EA in many respects (excepting artificial gravity) I'd say, based on the last thread, that it could go either way depending on the conditions, commanders, morale, and a whole load of other factors. Battlestars certainly carry more fighters than comparable sized B5 ships, and with the probable exception of Nails, the vipers seem to be either at parity or superior to the enemy fighters.

[MKSheppard]

Wasn't it determined that the weaponry thrown around in the B5 'verse is significantly more powerful than that of neoBSG?

If a puny nuke can destroy a Minbari flagship from a sizeable distance, then the Battlestars, which can survive direct hits from nukes, will wipe the floor with them.

[Batman]

Yes, because all nukes are created equal. The ones that did the Black Star in were 2MT. The ones the Battlestars survived were?

[Nephtys]

Yes, because all nukes are created equal. The ones that did the Black Star in were 2MT. The ones the Battlestars survived were?

Galactica took a 50kt in the pilot, and had to seal off a section or risk the ship exploding from the fuel line going up. That's still a good deal less than 2MT, as Shep of course would know.

[MKSheppard]

That's still a good deal less than 2MT, as Shep of course would know.

It was a DIRECT skin hit; compare that to the 2 MT initation that destroyed the Black Star at a nice distance, where the effects of the initation are vastly reduced.

[Batman]

Thank you.
If a nBSG BattleStar is in danger by a 50KT omnidirectional nuke then frankly I don't see it having much of a chance against any of the League ships. B5 ships regularly dish out, and at least for a while stand up to KT range damage from directed energy weapons, and regularly engage each other at 3 to 4 figure km ranges. I don't see how the BattleStar stands much of a chance.

[MKSheppard]

If a nBSG BattleStar is in danger by a 50KT omnidirectional nuke then frankly I don't see it having much of a chance against any of the League ships.

Yes, lets ignore the fact that a puny 2 megaton device destroyed the Minbari flagship at quite a distance. In space, the nature of nuclear weapons changes dramatically.

No atmosphere= no blast.
Thermal Radiation also mostly disappears as well.

About the only effects left are the fireball and the hard radiation from the warhead.

Running this through Mike's Nuke Calculator:

50 Kilotons generates a 159m fireball and a 1,767m 500 REM radius.

2 Megatons generates a 697m fireball and a 3,561m 500 REM radius.

Considering that the Black Star was pretty much destroyed at a distance not because of the 2 MT primary effects, but because the Black Star's reactor containment system was disrupted by the nuke...

Considering that BSG ships don't suffer from the fragility that B5 ships do....

[Batman]

The Black Star was destroyed from undetermined secondary explosions. Those were, indeed, caused by proximity detonations by 2 2MT nukes. You have, naturally, calculated how much of that energy actually hit the ship, and determined that it was considerably less than the at best 25KT that affected Galactica.
B5 ships routinely survive KT-level hits by DEW. Do BattleStars?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

As I already said in this thread, the 50 kiloton number is for a faked explosion, not the one that hit Galactica. The yield of that nuke is unknown.

[Batman]

Thank you for the correction, GAT.
So, as everybody believed the President's ship was destroyed by that 50KT explosion (and wasn't there more than one ship?), that doesn't speak particularly well for the durability of nBSG ships.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Thank you for the correction, GAT.
So, as everybody believed the President's ship was destroyed by that 50KT explosion (and wasn't there more than one ship?), that doesn't speak particularly well for the durability of nBSG ships.

There were some other civillian ships there. It doesn't speak well for the durability of nSBG unarmed, unarmoured civilian transports.

[Batman]

Fair enough. Do we have any idea how far those ships were apart? They were visible together in a single frame IIRC but I have no clue how to translate that into actual distances.

[MKSheppard]

So, as everybody believed the President's ship was destroyed by that 50KT explosion (and wasn't there more than one ship?), that doesn't speak particularly well for the durability of nBSG ships.

Yes, because we all know that civilian transports are the equivalent of heavily armored battlestars.

Thanks for your rampant strawmanning, Bats.

[Batman]

Kindly notice that I already acknowledged that point in my reply to GAT. The fact remains that several civilian vessels were believed to be destroyed by that 50KT explosion, which as you yourself pointed out is going to have a greatly reduced effect the larger the distance from the explosion is, and there's a limit on how much tougher a warship is going to be than a civilian craft.

[MKSheppard]

Battlestar Galactica takes a nuke at point-blank range in the Mini.





The Black Star is destroyed by a puny nuke at a distance.