Zerg vs. Imperial Army

[Darth Garden Gnome]

I Think that the spines could penetrate give enough force.

Can you say DUUHHHHHH?

[Smiling Bandit]

the zerg are immune to all types of nerve gas/checmical agents/ disease

While the Terrans are ruthless, They didn't seem to have much of that available. It most likely wasn't worth investing in when all of your troops have full NBC protection.

BUt what really makes the day for the Empire is the concept of "firepower". Zerglings are useless, and no Zerg colony can have more than 200 or so attackers at once. Joke!

But really, the range and power of the blaster is horribly overpowering. Stromies could line up on their shielded walls and blow the Zerg to Hell and back, even if those Hydralisk spines could kill them. Plus, it doesn't matter how many troopers the Swarm tries to eat, they don't use solid-metal technology, (though I guess they have metal in their hides) and will not gain any assimilation advantage. Anyway, when in comes down to it, the Swarmn got nothing from eating any Terrans, either. All the Swarm terrans did was blow up! And no mere chemical explosion will play a part in Star Trek!

Besides, one BDZ and its all over. I'd just sit tight, let the Zerg smash their power against my walls, and have tea while the wall turret gunners chew the Zerg to peices. Then call a ship up and blow the Zerg away.

[Cpt_Frank]

The fight is unfair, the poor Zerg are extremely outmatched.
A fight Zerg vs Federation would be fairer. And funner.

[Master of Ossus]

The fight is unfair, the poor Zerg are extremely outmatched.
A fight Zerg vs Federation would be fairer. And funner.

No, then the Federation would be slaughtered by an even greater margin than the Zerg would by the Empire. You're right, it would be more fun.

[Master of Ossus]

I Think that the spines could penetrate give enough force.

Of course they could penetrate, given enough force. The question is, DO they have enough force. The answer is no.

[lgot]

There's nothing in the manual about Zerg being immune to biological/chemical weapons. However, the humans of SC are a pretty ruthless bunch, and we can assume they tried out those weapons.

This is so logical...
Look, Zergs are not imune to their own weapons, Not imune to the defiler powers or Queen's parasite, etc. There is nowhere to think they are, and the fact humans do not use it (Unless we think irradiate in some how) its all.
The Zergs wouldnt stand a chance against the Empire, they probally cannt do damage enough to empire's shield and their flying options are not very effective if you compare to a Destroyer or even to the old Enterprise.
They can, due their large number and killitall way of life, cause damage to some populations, but to cause damage to some populations is not the same than facing the Empire or the federation...
of course, that was not the original scenario, where some stormtroppers are to face zergs in ground combat...

[Moonstone Spider]

Hydralisk spines are stated to be able to penetrate 2 inches of neosteel plating. We don't know what neosteel is like but it is most likely superior to normalsteel. Assuming it's just plain cast iron though, a 2 inch thick plate would probably resist all the projectiles a Stormie armor suit has ever been seen to repel (ie, a spear would not do anything to a 2 inch thick cast iron plate. Stormtrooper armor was chipped.) Of course we have to wonder how strong the cyborg was so there's some room for doubt, but it seems highly likely given the 2-inch neosteel armor penetration rating that they can punch through stormie armor in a single volley. This is on top of the fact that the Hydralisk does not shoot a single spine but a large cluster of them at once, which would result in a shotgun effect very likely to hit the black body-stocking and kill the trooper.

Ultralisk blades have monomolecular edges, the edges are a single molecule thick. That's extremely sharp. It would not be surprising, given this armament and the huge size of the Ultralisk (not exactly sure how big it is), to see it simply slice the legs off an AT-ST in a single blow.

The Zerg choose to live on the planet Char. This planet's name is no pun, it's massively volcanic, covered in lava pools, and every part of the surface is glowing red hot. The Zerg don't seem to mind a bit and even burrow into it's surface now and then even in the lava pools. This suggests some incredible heat resistance, and since Imperial weapons are mainly thermal transfer this points to the Stormies needing a lot of shots to take even a Zergling down, possibly concentrated fire from their artillery weapons as blaster rifles might be totally ineffective.

I've never seen TIEs fighting in an atmosphere, are they even atmosphere capable? The design looks rather bad for such an environment. In TESB they used speeders rather than X-Wings to attack the AT-ATs even though apparently X-Wing weaponry is powerful enough to blow away an AT-AT with a single shot. This suggest they have very poor atmosphere power and the X-Wing looks much more atmosphere worthy than the TIE does, as well as being shielded. Also while a Scourge would by a fly on a windshield to an ISD it would definetly be damaging to a Tie, almost certainly a 1 shot kill.

Then there's the various spells and the Lurkers which Stormies will not even be able to see until their spines are ripping them apart, and the tunneling

Anyway I think the Zerg are being highly underestimated here. The only edge the Imperials have is orbital bombardment, and we've seen how rarely that's really done in combat, never in the movies and rarely in any other circumstances. If the Ewoks with superior numbers could slaughter stormies and AT-STs, I suspect the Zerg will have a cakewalk in a similar situation.

[lgot]

The Zergs have no special resistense to the Firebait attack. So, they can be killed, just like they are by anything by fire.
If they have more resistense to the vulcanic eviroment that was not the same of fire or heat resistense.

[Moonstone Spider]

Or the Firebat weaponry is way hotter than you might expect. After all those guys are wearing massive combat armor and the jets look a lot different from a normal flamethrower. The weapons are called Plasma Flamethrowers but I'm not sure what that means, I am under the impression all fire is a form of plasma. A different kind of heat is a really absurd bit of trekkie logic, heat is heat. If the Firebats can damage Zerg, and Zerg can handle lava without damage, then Firebats>Lava. A much simpler piece of logic than saying there are somehow different forms of thermal energy all of a sudden. Heat is Heat, period.

Also re: Bioweapons. Zerg do not breathe, as shown by the fact that they wander around on space platforms and fly through space with no suits, air tanks, or protection. Thus to work a bioagent must be able to somehow affect them without being inhaled. Their skin is also a super-dense armored carapace so it's not porous like normal skin is, making skin-contact bioagents iffy. The Queen Broodling attack can go through shields and the armor on a tank, and the Defiler Plague is a seething mass of energetic corrosive spores that can eat through many feet of steel as well as flesh, being vulnerable to weapons like that hardly suggests bioweaponry is going to hurt them.

[Cpt_Frank]

There's nothing in the manual about Zerg being immune to biological/chemical weapons. However, the humans of SC are a pretty ruthless bunch, and we can assume they tried out those weapons.

This is so logical...
Look, Zergs are not imune to their own weapons, Not imune to the defiler powers or Queen's parasite, etc. There is nowhere to think they are, and the fact humans do not use it (Unless we think irradiate in some how) its all.
The Zergs wouldnt stand a chance against the Empire, they probally cannt do damage enough to empire's shield and their flying options are not very effective if you compare to a Destroyer or even to the old Enterprise.
They can, due their large number and killitall way of life, cause damage to some populations, but to cause damage to some populations is not the same than facing the Empire or the federation...
of course, that was not the original scenario, where some stormtroppers are to face zergs in ground combat...

Remember the Defiler's ot the Queen's abilities are not conventional biological or chemical agents. The Defiler's plague ability damages all units, even the units in enviromental sealed battle armor, it even damages tanks and starships.
The Queens parasite is not a conventional biological/chemical agent.
It's merely a small living being which is attached to a Unit allowing the Cerebrate/Overmind to see through it's eyes.
And for the Zerg not being immune to their own weapons: What's the point?
If you're immune to nerve gas, usually you can still be ripped apart with claws or armor piercing spikes.

[lgot]

Moonstone Spider:

I Just like to point out again that all zergs are affected in the same way by the firebaits as humans are. They did not show anywhere to have a speciel imunnity to fire or heat.
If its trekkie logic or not, does not mind , since you pointed their adaptation to the Char could make Emperial blaster to be inefective.
In the game we never found a example of Zerg special immunity over humans. So , I do not see why assume this.

Moonstone Spider and Cpt Frank:

I never said a commum neddle would be enough to pass by Zerg's defenses. I just pointed again, they showed no imunity to diseases or anything.
And Of course, They are not affected by a sneeze or something, but they are affected.
Its a different kind of weapon, its a special, etc, does not matter, its enough to show they have not such imunnity.
So, its false to presume they are imunte to diseases/biological weapons etc when we see they can affected by those weapons. But I never said they would be affected by all diseases and gaseous stuff that affect us.

[Moonstone Spider]

lgot
I Just like to point out again that all zergs are affected in the same way by the firebaits as humans are. They did not show anywhere to have a speciel imunnity to fire or heat.
If its trekkie logic or not, does not mind , since you pointed their adaptation to the Char could make Emperial blaster to be inefective.
In the game we never found a example of Zerg special immunity over humans. So , I do not see why assume this.

Maybe you haven't noticed this, but every single in-game human is wearing massive power-armor that makes a stormie uniform look like Federation standard issue pajamas. Wearing such advanced armor, these humans can also wander around Char in it's lovely volcanic splendor with no problem. So sorry, but the fact that lava also doesn't hurt a human in power armor at all merely emphasises how awesomely powerful StarCraft stuff really is. The Zerg special immunity you speak of is the Zerg wandering around in space, in lava, etc. while the humans need starships and power suits to do the same thing. As I said, heat is heat. Zerg don't take damage from molten-Rock level heat touching every part of their body at once. I doubt the Stormtrooper weapons can match that kind of discharge, so odds are the Hyrdalisks will be shooting spines right through them while the stormies need to empty their guns to kill a single Zergling.

I never said a commum neddle would be enough to pass by Zerg's defenses. I just pointed again, they showed no imunity to diseases or anything.
And Of course, They are not affected by a sneeze or something, but they are affected.
Its a different kind of weapon, its a special, etc, does not matter, its enough to show they have not such imunnity.
So, its false to presume they are imunte to diseases/biological weapons etc when we see they can affected by those weapons. But I never said they would be affected by all diseases and gaseous stuff that affect us.

As pointed out, Plauge isn't a disease at all, though it is a biological weapon. It's an acid spore that dissolves dang near anything, and passes unharmed through shields to boot. Armor plating disintigrates from plague, buildings are fried by it, concrete bunkers dissolve in it. Show me a stormtrooper bioweapon that eats things like that and I'll allow it might hurt Zerg. Broodling isn't a disease at all but a rapidly-multiplying parasite that devours it's host from the inside out in a few hundreds of a second, far different from some slow-attacking disease.

[Master of Ossus]

So, what makes you think Stormies cannot survive in such conditions? BTW, not all people ARE wearing suits. There are civilians in game, and they are not that much weaker than standard marines. This indicates to me that the Marine suits do not add very much to people in general, or their resistance to attack. This would strongly argue in favor of SW during this contest. Also, Zerglings can be killed by a truck hitting them at low speed. That is sad, compared with SW stuff. The rate of fire on the Gauss Impaler rifle (as shown by the ammunition counter) is pathetic for a projectile weapon, the range of the firebat is extremely limited, even by modern standards, and their powered suits do not seem terribly impressive. Clearly the Zerg would be unable to stand up to Imperial troops.

[lgot]

Maybe you haven't noticed this, but every single in-game human is wearing massive power-armor that makes a stormie uniform look like Federation standard issue pajamas.

I have nothing to say about federation shirts, but I have notice this. You know why ?
Because SVC show no armor when the game starts and also the Ghost. Only the Mariner have in his description the use of life suporting armor.

As I said, heat is heat. Zerg don't take damage from molten-Rock level heat touching every part of their body at once.

Something you presume. Because in the game graphics no one can cross any chasm of vulcano, zerg among those.
And they still take damage from the Firebait, which damage is , by Blizzard,concusion and fire.

As pointed out, Plauge isn't a disease at all, though it is a biological weapon. It's an acid spore that dissolves dang near anything, and passes unharmed through shields to boot. Armor plating disintigrates from plague, buildings are fried by it, concrete bunkers dissolve in it. Show me a stormtrooper bioweapon that eats things like that and I'll allow it might hurt Zerg. Broodling isn't a disease at all but a rapidly-multiplying parasite that devours it's host from the inside out in a few hundreds of a second, far different from some slow-attacking disease.

Perhaps we use a different meaning for disease. From a dicionary:
"A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms. "
No, its a spore that dissolve with acid. Slighty difference. Funny, how the defiler have this description of blizzard:
"They generate a number of virus-like biochemicals which are capable of overpowering even the most effective anti-toxins. " also they :
Do you notice, that when you have a infestation with fungus , their spores are causing warm to us. And this is still a disease.
The only difference between the broading and the Taenia Saginata, a parasite that devour host from inside its the speed. But a Parasite devouring you from inside is a infection and a disease.
And you dont need to ask me for Stormtroppers weapons, when i never talked about this here. I talked against their imunities only. That was my point and nothing about Stroopers will increase anything here.

[Moonstone Spider]

I have nothing to say about federation shirts, but I have notice this. You know why ?
Because SVC show no armor when the game starts and also the Ghost. Only the Mariner have in his description the use of life suporting armor.

The SCV is wearing a massive suit equipped for heavy construction. Do you really think he's a naked human with metal-colored skin and rectangular arms 8 feet long ending in welding tools? Get real. He has an armor class of 0 because his armor isn't able to reduce the damage from SC level weapons. However he is considerably tougher than a marine and it takes a lot more firepower to rip his construction suit apart. Also if you use an Engineering bay to enhance Terran Infantry armor, the SCV gets an Armor class of 1,2, or 3. That must mean he's wearing armor.

As for the Ghost, again he gets an upgrade though he starts with 0 as an armor class. Again that doesn't mean he's not wearing armor, as you can see from the picture a Ghost wears a full-face mask equipped with various sensors and they do not have any part of their body that looks like flesh. They also can wander around on lava or in deep space as can the Space Construction Vehicle which you claim is not power-armor.

Something you presume. Because in the game graphics no one can cross any chasm of vulcano, zerg among those.
And they still take damage from the Firebait, which damage is , by Blizzard,concusion and fire.

Actually according to Blizzard it's a double plasma stream but that's just technobabble. Nothing says it's fire but it is called concussive, indicating it actually has kinetic energy since that's required for a concussion, certainly it's not regular fire then. Thanks for the help. As for game engine, you're right, they can't climb in the deep chasms. However if you look at the map you can see areas they can cross readily that are actually cracked and broken up with lava welling up in the seams, the seams were often wider than a Zerg's body. And they can burrow into this surface and actually hide and heal themselves while they, proving full-body immersion. I presumed nothing while you have postulated that somehow lava and fire produce different forms of heat energy or that humans in space-going power armor are actually not wearing any armor.

Perhaps we use a different meaning for disease. From a dicionary:
"A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms. "
No, its a spore that dissolve with acid. Slighty difference. Funny, how the defiler have this description of blizzard:
"They generate a number of virus-like biochemicals which are capable of overpowering even the most effective anti-toxins. " also they :
Do you notice, that when you have a infestation with fungus , their spores are causing warm to us. And this is still a disease.
The only difference between the broading and the Taenia Saginata, a parasite that devour host from inside its the speed. But a Parasite devouring you from inside is a infection and a disease.
And you dont need to ask me for Stormtroppers weapons, when i never talked about this here. I talked against their imunities only. That was my point and nothing about Stroopers will increase anything here.

Very well, I concede the point. Plague and Broodling are diseases. However my point remains, do stormtroopers have anything like that kind of power available in their Bioweapons locker? Otherwise they are not likely to be effective.

So, what makes you think Stormies cannot survive in such conditions? BTW, not all people ARE wearing suits. There are civilians in game, and they are not that much weaker than standard marines. This indicates to me that the Marine suits do not add very much to people in general, or their resistance to attack. This would strongly argue in favor of SW during this contest. Also, Zerglings can be killed by a truck hitting them at low speed. That is sad, compared with SW stuff. The rate of fire on the Gauss Impaler rifle (as shown by the ammunition counter) is pathetic for a projectile weapon, the range of the firebat is extremely limited, even by modern standards, and their powered suits do not seem terribly impressive. Clearly the Zerg would be unable to stand up to Imperial troops.

Yes, there are civilians. One is killed in a single shot from a marine in-game and blown limb from limb. However I must point out Civilians are also wearing suits of armor, as you can see from their full-body coverage. It's nothing like Marine armor but it still provides enough protection for them to handle some horrific conditions. As for your argument that Stormtroopers might be able to handle such a place, get real. Point to any scene where a stormtrooper handles hot lava even touching his feet and maybe you've got something. Stormies can't even handle vacuum for more than a few minutes while Zerg can wander a vacuum happily.

As for getting hit by a truck being sad, call me crazy but I think a truck has more kinetic energy than a rock being tossed by an Ewok. Zerglings show more Kinetic Energy resistance than Stormtroopers do. Getting killed by rocks, ropes, and sticks is sad by StarCraft standards. And we didn't even see a crack in the Zerglings shell, no signs of damage at all showing an impact by a moving truck was unable to actually damage the exterior in any way, which merely backs up it's toughness.

The Impaler is a Marine weapon, irrelavent to discussing the Zerg.

The Range of the Firebat is indeed limited, but that has nothing to do with it's raw power which is what is being discussed. As for impressive, frankly what are you doing in this debate? You provide no real arguments and no real evidence, all you do is toss around words like "Impressive," "Sad," or "Pathetic" as if merely your saying something makes it true. And none of it really is true as I shown. Show some events, some calculations, or some real arguments but don't come in here and think that by saying you don't think the enemy is impressive you're going to get anywhere.

[Typhonis 1]

This thread is about the Imperial Army right??? so how are they armed since I think Stormtroopers are a different group

[Moonstone Spider]

Oh, okay. Since stormies are the *Elite* warriors and they don't seem to be able to cut it, the Imperial army is going to be raped.

[Cpt_Frank]

I have nothing to say about federation shirts, but I have notice this. You know why ?
Because SVC show no armor when the game starts and also the Ghost. Only the Mariner have in his description the use of life suporting armor.

The SCV is wearing a massive suit equipped for heavy construction. Do you really think he's a naked human with metal-colored skin and rectangular arms 8 feet long ending in welding tools? Get real. He has an armor class of 0 because his armor isn't able to reduce the damage from SC level weapons. However he is considerably tougher than a marine and it takes a lot more firepower to rip his construction suit apart. Also if you use an Engineering bay to enhance Terran Infantry armor, the SCV gets an Armor class of 1,2, or 3. That must mean he's wearing armor.

As for the Ghost, again he gets an upgrade though he starts with 0 as an armor class. Again that doesn't mean he's not wearing armor, as you can see from the picture a Ghost wears a full-face mask equipped with various sensors and they do not have any part of their body that looks like flesh. They also can wander around on lava or in deep space as can the Space Construction Vehicle which you claim is not power-armor.

Something you presume. Because in the game graphics no one can cross any chasm of vulcano, zerg among those.
And they still take damage from the Firebait, which damage is , by Blizzard,concusion and fire.

Actually according to Blizzard it's a double plasma stream but that's just technobabble. Nothing says it's fire but it is called concussive, indicating it actually has kinetic energy since that's required for a concussion, certainly it's not regular fire then. Thanks for the help. As for game engine, you're right, they can't climb in the deep chasms. However if you look at the map you can see areas they can cross readily that are actually cracked and broken up with lava welling up in the seams, the seams were often wider than a Zerg's body. And they can burrow into this surface and actually hide and heal themselves while they, proving full-body immersion. I presumed nothing while you have postulated that somehow lava and fire produce different forms of heat energy or that humans in space-going power armor are actually not wearing any armor.

Perhaps we use a different meaning for disease. From a dicionary:
"A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms. "
No, its a spore that dissolve with acid. Slighty difference. Funny, how the defiler have this description of blizzard:
"They generate a number of virus-like biochemicals which are capable of overpowering even the most effective anti-toxins. " also they :
Do you notice, that when you have a infestation with fungus , their spores are causing warm to us. And this is still a disease.
The only difference between the broading and the Taenia Saginata, a parasite that devour host from inside its the speed. But a Parasite devouring you from inside is a infection and a disease.
And you dont need to ask me for Stormtroppers weapons, when i never talked about this here. I talked against their imunities only. That was my point and nothing about Stroopers will increase anything here.

Very well, I concede the point. Plague and Broodling are diseases. However my point remains, do stormtroopers have anything like that kind of power available in their Bioweapons locker? Otherwise they are not likely to be effective.

So, what makes you think Stormies cannot survive in such conditions? BTW, not all people ARE wearing suits. There are civilians in game, and they are not that much weaker than standard marines. This indicates to me that the Marine suits do not add very much to people in general, or their resistance to attack. This would strongly argue in favor of SW during this contest. Also, Zerglings can be killed by a truck hitting them at low speed. That is sad, compared with SW stuff. The rate of fire on the Gauss Impaler rifle (as shown by the ammunition counter) is pathetic for a projectile weapon, the range of the firebat is extremely limited, even by modern standards, and their powered suits do not seem terribly impressive. Clearly the Zerg would be unable to stand up to Imperial troops.

Yes, there are civilians. One is killed in a single shot from a marine in-game and blown limb from limb. However I must point out Civilians are also wearing suits of armor, as you can see from their full-body coverage. It's nothing like Marine armor but it still provides enough protection for them to handle some horrific conditions. As for your argument that Stormtroopers might be able to handle such a place, get real. Point to any scene where a stormtrooper handles hot lava even touching his feet and maybe you've got something. Stormies can't even handle vacuum for more than a few minutes while Zerg can wander a vacuum happily.

As for getting hit by a truck being sad, call me crazy but I think a truck has more kinetic energy than a rock being tossed by an Ewok. Zerglings show more Kinetic Energy resistance than Stormtroopers do. Getting killed by rocks, ropes, and sticks is sad by StarCraft standards. And we didn't even see a crack in the Zerglings shell, no signs of damage at all showing an impact by a moving truck was unable to actually damage the exterior in any way, which merely backs up it's toughness.

The Impaler is a Marine weapon, irrelavent to discussing the Zerg.

The Range of the Firebat is indeed limited, but that has nothing to do with it's raw power which is what is being discussed. As for impressive, frankly what are you doing in this debate? You provide no real arguments and no real evidence, all you do is toss around words like "Impressive," "Sad," or "Pathetic" as if merely your saying something makes it true. And none of it really is true as I shown. Show some events, some calculations, or some real arguments but don't come in here and think that by saying you don't think the enemy is impressive you're going to get anywhere.

Err.. if the firebat's fire is a 'plasma stream', and it's effective against Zerg, then blasters will be effective, too, since they too are plasma based.

[lgot]

The SCV is wearing a massive suit equipped for heavy construction. Do you really think he's a naked human with metal-colored skin and rectangular arms 8 feet long ending in welding tools? Get real. He has an armor class of 0 because his armor isn't able to reduce the damage from SC level weapons. However he is considerably tougher than a marine and it takes a lot more firepower to rip his construction suit apart. Also if you use an Engineering bay to enhance Terran Infantry armor, the SCV gets an Armor class of 1,2, or 3. That must mean he's wearing armor.

As for the Ghost, again he gets an upgrade though he starts with 0 as an armor class. Again that doesn't mean he's not wearing armor, as you can see from the picture a Ghost wears a full-face mask equipped with various sensors and they do not have any part of their body that looks like flesh. They also can wander around on lava or in deep space as can the Space Construction Vehicle which you claim is not power-armor.

The massive suit of a SVC or the multiple sensors of ghosts are much fair away from the "but every single in-game human is wearing massive power-armor " you first said.
Also, the fact they use a suit -that i agree, have some degree of armor but never enough to count out - (blizzard says the SVC suit was build to do the building job in the vacum, not to protect from fire or heat or cold or snow) does not mean this suit will protect from fire.
This is your assumption.
The Ghost wander around lava, as much, you can do. He does not walk over it, jump inside it or anything like that. Always around or over chasms. He does not come in contact of it.

Actually according to Blizzard it's a double plasma stream but that's just technobabble. Nothing says it's fire but it is called concussive, indicating it actually has kinetic energy since that's required for a concussion, certainly it's not regular fire then. Thanks for the help.

You want help ? here some help:
"Firebats do Splash damage. The Splash damage affects only enemy units. It will not hurt your own units even in close tight battles.

Equipped with powerful, twin arm-mounted "Perdition" flame throwers, these fearless warriors serve as assault troopers for those close encounters. Fire Bat Power Suits are heavier, more durable, and much more heat resistant than Marine armor, and provide additional squad-level support.

Multiple Firebats with overlapping fire streams do great damage. The Damage is Concussive Attack (50% damage to Medium Units 25% damage to Large Units)."

actually it does not point out as heat, as you said. So its your point valid. From this I cannt prove any fire damage.
Menwhile, It is still to prove anywhere there is fire imunity. After all, you noticed they describe the Power suits ? And they let clear the Fire bait armor is much more heat resistant than mariners ? They do not talk about Human armor, but Just mariners. Neither they talk such things in any Zerg troup. Do you noticed that ? If Blizzard wanted to give anyone else the heat immunity you assume, They would just have written that down. They would have make it official, like they did here. So, "Cannonwise", No one but Mariners and Firebats do have any heat protection. And in the game, other source, we do not see that happening, since the unities do not come in contact with fire. My point, as the begining: Nowhere Blizzard or the game shows Zergs having special immnuties to heat and fire. They could have said if they wanted, but they do not. Therefore, anytime, assuming they have such immunity is just a assumptiion.

However if you look at the map you can see areas they can cross readily that are actually cracked and broken up with lava welling up in the seams, the seams were often wider than a Zerg's body. And they can burrow into this surface and actually hide and heal themselves while they, proving full-body immersion.

You cannt build over those chasms and Zergs cannt really borrow there. They can borrow aside. If they could build armor able to withstand the constant fire there, why didnt they do it with buldings ?
Also, they walk over it, but not in the big cracks. They walk only in the small ones. I assume they walk over it with minimal contact.

I presumed nothing while you have postulated that somehow lava and fire produce different forms of heat energy or that humans in space-going power armor are actually not wearing any armor.

This is not true.
One I never postulated this. I said only they take fire damage, so they would not have heat immunity at all. You do not try to twist my arguments.
You the one that assume the heat immunity, saying they can burn in lava or do not take damage from full body contact with this. When all unities in Starcract dont take any damage from this.Even if they avoid jumping in lava bigger crackers or rivers. Most simple explanation: They actually do not take contact with lava for enough time to do any damage, and they avoid the big ones because they are affected from this. You bring a immunity that Blizzard didnt come out. So its your assumption.

Now, So far my only points are against the immunties. I have no idea if Stormtroopers have such weapons. Someone else can answer this I am sure.
And to help out, I do not think we actually find the civilians wandering in any time in the volcanic places, just in that human's stations, laboratories and such.

[Master of Ossus]

1. Stormtroopers have never been issued flame projectors as part of their standard weaponry, though such weapons exist in SW (ref. AotC, canon, and several official sources). It is probable that if a stormtrooper group decided they needed such weapons they would have the ability to get them from somewhere. Stormtroopers are primarily armed with their E-11s and repeating blasters. They also carry thermal detonators and vibro-knives as standard issue. Some specialty groups carry other weapons, as well, including miniature proton torpedoes.

2. Civilians, to my knowledge, do not populated lava worlds, except in the decidedly not canon user-mods. They can be seen withstanding multiple hydralisk spines in other missions of the game (which should prove the worthlessness of such attacks).

3. Stormtroopers likely have access to certain kinds of biological weapons. They are protected from them, and the Empire clearly has been able to engineer such weapons in the past (ref. The Krytos Trap, The Emperor's Plague). They CERTAINLY have access to chemical weapons as grenades and air support.

4. Standard stormies can handle vacuum for 20 minutes, and specialist stormies can handle vacuum almost indefinitely. There are also specialist stormies that can and do fight on lava worlds, except that they can actually swim through lava. Trucks have more KE than rocks thrown by Ewoks, but no stormtrooper was ever killed by such an attack. I don't doubt that it would be possible for them to break their necks, but there is no canon or official reference to them being killed by rocks. BTW, according to Lightsabers they can withstand a HUGE amount of kinetic energy. A spear thrown with enough force to nearly make someone black out from deceleration upon hitting a wall was stopped without significant damage.

5. I was using the Impaler weapon as a reference point to how much Zerg can both dish out and withstand. In order to properly compare, we must first understand how much damage from a zergling can take.

6. PEOPLE survive being hit by cars and trucks. If a zergling cannot do similar, we can assume that a Zergling's ability to resist concussive damage is comparable to that of a human.

[Moonstone Spider]

Cpt_Frank
Err.. if the firebat's fire is a 'plasma stream', and it's effective against Zerg, then blasters will be effective, too, since they too are plasma based.

Pathetic logic. Phasers and Turbolasers and both energy weapons, Turbolasers can destroy Star Destroyers, therefore Phasers can destroy Star Destroyers, by that reasoning. We're debating the magnitude of energy, not the nature of the weaponry. Stormie weapons don't make the grade, they've never shown anything like Char level heat.

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:19 pm Post subject:

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The SCV is wearing a massive suit equipped for heavy construction. Do you really think he's a naked human with metal-colored skin and rectangular arms 8 feet long ending in welding tools? Get real. He has an armor class of 0 because his armor isn't able to reduce the damage from SC level weapons. However he is considerably tougher than a marine and it takes a lot more firepower to rip his construction suit apart. Also if you use an Engineering bay to enhance Terran Infantry armor, the SCV gets an Armor class of 1,2, or 3. That must mean he's wearing armor.

As for the Ghost, again he gets an upgrade though he starts with 0 as an armor class. Again that doesn't mean he's not wearing armor, as you can see from the picture a Ghost wears a full-face mask equipped with various sensors and they do not have any part of their body that looks like flesh. They also can wander around on lava or in deep space as can the Space Construction Vehicle which you claim is not power-armor.

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The massive suit of a SVC or the multiple sensors of ghosts are much fair away from the "but every single in-game human is wearing massive power-armor " you first said.
Also, the fact they use a suit -that i agree, have some degree of armor but never enough to count out - (blizzard says the SVC suit was build to do the building job in the vacum, not to protect from fire or heat or cold or snow) does not mean this suit will protect from fire.
This is your assumption.
The Ghost wander around lava, as much, you can do. He does not walk over it, jump inside it or anything like that. Always around or over chasms. He does not come in contact of it.

Do you or do you not agree that an SCV is a type of power armor? Do you or do you not agree that a Ghost stealth suit is a type of power-armor? No human in Starcraft is wandering those maps in their underwear, all humans are wearing considerable armor that explains their resistance. The SCV may have been built for space, but space is a seriously hostile environment and just by nature of being space-capable on worlds like Char it has to handle obscene levels of heat.
The ghost does walk over lava, as you can see below.

actually it does not point out as heat, as you said. So its your point valid. From this I cannt prove any fire damage.
Menwhile, It is still to prove anywhere there is fire imunity. After all, you noticed they describe the Power suits ? And they let clear the Fire bait armor is much more heat resistant than mariners ? They do not talk about Human armor, but Just mariners. Neither they talk such things in any Zerg troup. Do you noticed that ? If Blizzard wanted to give anyone else the heat immunity you assume, They would just have written that down. They would have make it official, like they did here. So, "Cannonwise", No one but Mariners and Firebats do have any heat protection. And in the game, other source, we do not see that happening, since the unities do not come in contact with fire. My point, as the begining: Nowhere Blizzard or the game shows Zergs having special immnuties to heat and fire. They could have said if they wanted, but they do not. Therefore, anytime, assuming they have such immunity is just a assumptiion.

This is the only thing I dislike about the ICS, people forget how to actually look at the events and judge firepower from them, they think everything has to be written out. Look at what the Zerg can survive on Char, and you can see they are lava resistant. Blizzard doesn't have to write this down, we can see it from the fact that they wander around on and burrow into lava, and we can see they are no less tough vs. Insane plasma blasts than the firebats and marines. Again, you help me by pointing out Fire resistance on the part of Firebats, and we see they take no less damage than Zerg.

You cannt build over those chasms and Zergs cannt really borrow there. They can borrow aside. If they could build armor able to withstand the constant fire there, why didnt they do it with buldings ?
Also, they walk over it, but not in the big cracks. They walk only in the small ones. I assume they walk over it with minimal contact.

Enough is enough, here is a picture of multiple Zerg walking on Lava and burrowed into it. [img]http://moonstone.netfirms.com/images/me ... f[img]It's a bit downgraded in quality due to being turned into a GIF but you can clearly see lava in wide cracks in the ground, zerg walking on the lava, and two highlighted Zerg which have burrowed underneath the thin crust of rock and directly into the lava underneath. I don't think there's any room left for doubt now on the nature of their thermal resistance.

1. Stormtroopers have never been issued flame projectors as part of their standard weaponry, though such weapons exist in SW (ref. AotC, canon, and several official sources). It is probable that if a stormtrooper group decided they needed such weapons they would have the ability to get them from somewhere. Stormtroopers are primarily armed with their E-11s and repeating blasters. They also carry thermal detonators and vibro-knives as standard issue. Some specialty groups carry other weapons, as well, including miniature proton torpedoes.

Flame weapons of theirs are likely to be ineffective along with the E-11s due to LAva-level heat resistance. Thermal detonators will certainly kill Zerg. I can't see Vibroknives being effective against them.

2. Civilians, to my knowledge, do not populated lava worlds, except in the decidedly not canon user-mods. They can be seen withstanding multiple hydralisk spines in other missions of the game (which should prove the worthlessness of such attacks).

Civilians do not populate lava worlds, but that's irrelavant. Zerg DO populate lava worlds and that's what counts here. Civilians also wear space-suits in Starcraft, so again the attacks are hardly worthless, as we have written canon saying they can penetrate 2 inches of Neosteel. Civie space suits obviously provide a defense equivalent of many inches of Neosteel.

3. Stormtroopers likely have access to certain kinds of biological weapons. They are protected from them, and the Empire clearly has been able to engineer such weapons in the past (ref. The Krytos Trap, The Emperor's Plague). They CERTAINLY have access to chemical weapons as grenades and air support.

Hard to say if a Chemical Weapon will have any effect unless we see it, some chemicals will work but given the Zerg's hyper-adaptive nature and superb immune systems the chemicals may well not work as well. The Empire will be able to engineer such weapons over time but that's time that will cost them dearly, and the Zerg adapt quickly by assimilating new DNA into the hive.

4. Standard stormies can handle vacuum for 20 minutes, and specialist stormies can handle vacuum almost indefinitely. There are also specialist stormies that can and do fight on lava worlds, except that they can actually swim through lava. Trucks have more KE than rocks thrown by Ewoks, but no stormtrooper was ever killed by such an attack. I don't doubt that it would be possible for them to break their necks, but there is no canon or official reference to them being killed by rocks. BTW, according to Lightsabers they can withstand a HUGE amount of kinetic energy. A spear thrown with enough force to nearly make someone black out from deceleration upon hitting a wall was stopped without significant damage.

No stormtrooper killed by rocks? What exactly was happening when those Ewoks smashed them? The Ewoks did inflict considerable casualties on the Stormtroopers with their primitive weaponry. The canon references are A) We see stormies fall down after being hit with rocks, often screaming and yelling as Ewoks with rocks on sticks start hitting them. They would be laughing if they were taking no damage, not screaming in pain. B) After the battle Ewoks are playing with Stormtrooper heads like drums. Clearly Stormtrooper armor was defeated by such primitive weaponry. On the other hand, if you want to deny evidence the Zerg was merely stunned by the truck, we saw no blood or damage so quite possibly it too was just knocked down and hadn't gotten up yet. At any rate it's KE is rather good considering how bullets seem to have a minimal effect and it's skin was undamaged by the car impact.

5. I was using the Impaler weapon as a reference point to how much Zerg can both dish out and withstand. In order to properly compare, we must first understand how much damage from a zergling can take.

Lots of damage. An impaler fires metal spikes at hypersonic (more than mach 5) velocities, and it takes up to 50 to kill a single Zergling depending on which side has better tech. Given equal tech it takes about 25 rounds to kill a Zergling.

6. PEOPLE survive being hit by cars and trucks. If a zergling cannot do similar, we can assume that a Zergling's ability to resist concussive damage is comparable to that of a human.

Some lucky people survive some low-speed impacts. Nobody has undamaged skin after being hit and rolled, however. And no human would survive being tossed off the windshield and across the ground 50 feet. At any rate Imperials generally don't carry bullet weaponry, and I've already proven their energy weapons are going to be ineffective so by the time they realize the Zerg are soaking up the E-11s with minimal damage the Stormtroopers will be getting ripped apart, it will be highly difficult to redeploy bullet weaponry to them in time after the first attack and stormtrooper bullet weaponry will run out of ammo quickly trying to stop thousands of Zerglings and Hydralisks from flooding them.[/img]

[lgot]

Do you or do you not agree that an SCV is a type of power armor? Do you or do you not agree that a Ghost stealth suit is a type of power-armor? No human in Starcraft is wandering those maps in their underwear, all humans are wearing considerable armor that explains their resistance. The SCV may have been built for space, but space is a seriously hostile environment and just by nature of being space-capable on worlds like Char it has to handle obscene levels of heat.
The ghost does walk over lava, as you can see below.

No, I agree it offer some armor. A Leather Jacket offer you some armor also.
1 - Its so weak the armor give by it that have no effect to stop any form of attack of SC.
2 - Because you have a form of armor that stops a form of attack that wont mean it will stop heat.
I will repeat : Blizzard clearly states two armors having heat protection. No other else. Until they do so, its a assumption that SVC or other armor would protect from heat.
I do not agree. Blizzard if ghost equipament was a power-armor blizzard would describe this. They describe it as a multiple sensors. They do not have a power-armor.
Much otherwise. What explains the resistense is because they can do it without much help.
Do you notice that Firebats - the bigger heat resistense armor users - use a armor that is not protective enough for him even try to run by a bigger lava crack ?
Sure, SVC are build to a hostile sittuation that did not include heat. Did not include radiation or acid, or parasites. All of those belong to what can be said hostile environment. And They are not imune to it. Why being to fire also ? Because you assume it.
How much is the level of heat of char ? They have vulcanos, yes. Magma craking; But you, we have that here in the earth, people live considerably close to vulcanos. Peopel walk over ashes from vulcanos. colect stuff from magma and they do not have such over protection you claim. If the zergs adapted to such harsh sittuation, it was not enough even to give BLizzard the care to note it.

This is the only thing I dislike about the ICS, people forget how to actually look at the events and judge firepower from them, they think everything has to be written out. Look at what the Zerg can survive on Char, and you can see they are lava resistant. Blizzard doesn't have to write this down, we can see it from the fact that they wander around on and burrow into lava, and we can see they are no less tough vs. Insane plasma blasts than the firebats and marines. Again, you help me by pointing out Fire resistance on the part of Firebats, and we see they take no less damage than Zerg.

I have no idea what ICS means...but you assume too much.
You do not know anything about how hard is or not to live in char and every specie of SC was abble to live there. SVC and Ghosts who wear no special protection to heat - please note i mean special. the flame who burns my hand does not burn theirs because they use more than my clothes, but this is not goes to the level you claimed about giving anyone heat/fire imunity. - are able to do so. A zerg without any forcefield suffers not from such heat. The most simple conclusion: Where they wander in char the heat is torelable enough. You go for a higher one: They have imunity to fire therefore to stormtropers weapons.
Blizzard does not have to write down ? But they did. They wrote when they wanted, remember ? You assume so many things.
And you miss the point, as you pointed and agreeded there is no Fire damage from the firebats, so its logical they extra protection wont make difference. You seem to use blizzard's writings only its stand for your point. Bad thing.

Enough is enough, here is a picture of multiple Zerg walking on Lava and burrowed into it. [img]http://moonstone.netfirms.com/images/me ... f[img]It's a bit downgraded in quality due to being turned into a GIF but you can clearly see lava in wide cracks in the ground, zerg walking on the lava, and two highlighted Zerg which have burrowed underneath the thin crust of rock and directly into the lava underneath. I don't think there's any room left for doubt now on the nature of their thermal resistance.

No, I see wide cracks in the grond and Zergs walking over it. And the two borrowed zergs clearly in the dark soil, not in the cracks. The lava is not spiting out those cracks, so they can avoid contact there.
Besides, You cannt build here, zergs buildings - with the same characteristics of their unities and zerg's gross stuff does not go here. Did you notice that clearly means: Nothing in SC can keep constant contact with lava and those cracks, they just can cross it. Most simple conclusion: They cross it over the lava. Your conclusion : thermal immunity.
If there is such thing, why zergs buldings can be done there ?
And you clear much remember, this kind of contact is much inferior to your previous:
"As I said, heat is heat. Zerg don't take damage from molten-Rock level heat touching every part of their body at once."
Which does not happen.
So, if you want to assume things and just say that what blizzard says or left unsaid does not mean anything, or anything like that, fine.
For me that wont happen and there is difference between us that will remain i think.

[Moonstone Spider]

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2002 11:53 pm Post subject:

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Do you or do you not agree that an SCV is a type of power armor? Do you or do you not agree that a Ghost stealth suit is a type of power-armor? No human in Starcraft is wandering those maps in their underwear, all humans are wearing considerable armor that explains their resistance. The SCV may have been built for space, but space is a seriously hostile environment and just by nature of being space-capable on worlds like Char it has to handle obscene levels of heat.
The ghost does walk over lava, as you can see below.
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No, I agree it offer some armor. A Leather Jacket offer you some armor also.
1 - Its so weak the armor give by it that have no effect to stop any form of attack of SC.
2 - Because you have a form of armor that stops a form of attack that wont mean it will stop heat.
I will repeat : Blizzard clearly states two armors having heat protection. No other else. Until they do so, its a assumption that SVC or other armor would protect from heat.
I do not agree. Blizzard if ghost equipament was a power-armor blizzard would describe this. They describe it as a multiple sensors. They do not have a power-armor.
Much otherwise. What explains the resistense is because they can do it without much help.
Do you notice that Firebats - the bigger heat resistense armor users - use a armor that is not protective enough for him even try to run by a bigger lava crack ?
Sure, SVC are build to a hostile sittuation that did not include heat. Did not include radiation or acid, or parasites. All of those belong to what can be said hostile environment. And They are not imune to it. Why being to fire also ? Because you assume it.
How much is the level of heat of char ? They have vulcanos, yes. Magma craking; But you, we have that here in the earth, people live considerably close to vulcanos. Peopel walk over ashes from vulcanos. colect stuff from magma and they do not have such over protection you claim. If the zergs adapted to such harsh sittuation, it was not enough even to give BLizzard the care to note it.

As your have pointed out, Firebats and Marines do have such protection. Since they take exactly the same amount of damage as SCVs, etc. from plasma blasts the other units must have similar protection, or else they would take more damage from heat weapons.

And just being an SCV means the vehicle must be capable of performing in vacuum, under different G-Forces, and the temperatures in space where it will go from a few degrees above absolute zero to thousands of degrees K in the space of minutes as the sun lights or doesn't light a surface. Then there's the radiation in space, got to deal with that too. Just by being made for space SCVs must have heat resistance in scads because otherwise they couldn't function.

As for the level of heat on Char, here's a picture of Char on Blizzard's Website

No, I see wide cracks in the grond and Zergs walking over it. And the two borrowed zergs clearly in the dark soil, not in the cracks. The lava is not spiting out those cracks, so they can avoid contact there.
Besides, You cannt build here, zergs buildings - with the same characteristics of their unities and zerg's gross stuff does not go here. Did you notice that clearly means: Nothing in SC can keep constant contact with lava and those cracks, they just can cross it. Most simple conclusion: They cross it over the lava. Your conclusion : thermal immunity.

They can stand on it as long as they want, and can dig and burrow into it. My conclusion on buildings: The ground moves too much to build on such a surface due to being partly liquid. Even the solid rock on Char has glowing red spots in it from the incredible heat.

If there is such thing, why zergs buldings can be done there ?
And you clear much remember, this kind of contact is much inferior to your previous:
"As I said, heat is heat. Zerg don't take damage from molten-Rock level heat touching every part of their body at once."
Which does not happen.
So, if you want to assume things and just say that what blizzard says or left unsaid does not mean anything, or anything like that, fine.
For me that wont happen and there is difference between us that will remain i think.

Now you are just deliberately being obtuse. I can, if you wish, go to the trouble of creating another image in which the Zergling is burrowed directly into a crack, with red visible on all sides. Are you really so desperate you need me to do that to prove what you already know? They can burrow into the cracks as easily as the clinkers, it must take real desperation tactics to claim they are burrowed into the surface crust..

However I shouldn't have to because the cracks are clearly between clinkers of hardened rock on the surface, underneath such a surface (such as you would find on Hawaii's volcanoes) the ground is entirely molten and you can even move those clinkers by pushing them around as they float. The Zergling is burrowed beneath the surface and is thus completely immersed in magma, as I said. Thus full-body magma immersion < Zerg carapace level 0.

Here's a lava flow with a similar appearance on Earth:

http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/vol ... i/015.html
A link showing that such lava has a thin surface crust, molten underneath. It's clearly not terrain suitable for building massive complexes but quite good to stand on if you'got power armor on, and if you're Zerg you can burrow into it and hide or heal get back to full strength. Because you're tough enough to laugh at lava.

As for your last parting shot, of course I consider what Blizzard says important. I greatly respect Blizzard as a company (if only they were faster about making games!) I've used their statements in this very argument. However you are trying to claim that because they didn't bother to state that a given suit is immune to heat, there is no possibility of heat resistance in those suits. I state that since a known heat resistant suit (firebat) provides similar protection from heat (Lava, firebat attacks) the second suit must also be heat resistant. It's quite simple logic, really. Just the same way, if we see a ship holding up under enemy fire as easily as an ISD, we can conclude it has similar shielding. Ditto here.

[lgot]

As your have pointed out, Firebats and Marines do have such protection. Since they take exactly the same amount of damage as SCVs, etc. from plasma blasts the other units must have similar protection, or else they would take more damage from heat weapons.

I think you forgot that you pointed out and i have agree there was no fire damage or heat damage. That is why they all take the same damage. There is no heat weapons.

And just being an SCV means the vehicle must be capable of performing in vacuum, under different G-Forces, and the temperatures in space where it will go from a few degrees above absolute zero to thousands of degrees K in the space of minutes as the sun lights or doesn't light a surface. Then there's the radiation in space, got to deal with that too. Just by being made for space SCVs must have heat resistance in scads because otherwise they couldn't function.

And He is not protected from Radiation (He is affected by Science Vessel Irradiate) but of course would by not logical saying he have some degree of protection from Radiation. But not enough in the military weapon scale.
Also, they have not this "thousand degrees" protection or else they would just walk over the big rifts of lava.

As for the level of heat on Char, here's a picture of Char on Blizzard's Website

Fine, how much is that ??

Now you are just deliberately being obtuse. I can, if you wish, go to the trouble of creating another image in which the Zergling is burrowed directly into a crack, with red visible on all sides. Are you really so desperate you need me to do that to prove what you already know? They can burrow into the cracks as easily as the clinkers, it must take real desperation tactics to claim they are burrowed into the surface crust..

Nah, you do not need, It was mistaken from me. Perhaps I failed to really express what i wanted to say.
If they could just walk over lava or burrow there why they do not do in the large rifts ? That would be a great advantage for Zergs. They do not. They just do in those cracks.

However I shouldn't have to because the cracks are clearly between clinkers of hardened rock on the surface, underneath such a surface (such as you would find on Hawaii's volcanoes) the ground is entirely molten and you can even move those clinkers by pushing them around as they float. The Zergling is burrowed beneath the surface and is thus completely immersed in magma, as I said. Thus full-body magma immersion < Zerg carapace level 0.

Its a good explanation for lack of buldings. I thought about that and i think that stands a problem:
If you have a porting of a terran in the middle of a river of lava, or cracks with enough size for bulding, you can build here. In the middle of such molten earth in a piece of molten earth. The earth pieces do not move (but then water does not also ^^) but such bigger pieces can hold the bulding when should not. I guess this question i made was in the end useless for any purpose because the visualization does not help much.
Also, the burrow is not much beneath the surfice since the ammount of earth over him does not protect him, therefore he may still in earth, not deep down in lava.

As for your last parting shot, of course I consider what Blizzard says important. I greatly respect Blizzard as a company (if only they were faster about making games!) I've used their statements in this very argument. However you are trying to claim that because they didn't bother to state that a given suit is immune to heat, there is no possibility of heat resistance in those suits. .

Well, I must remember that I used Blizzard statments and you main argument come from the adaptation of Zergs (Logical one, but I think that does not mean being able to resist that to being able to resist heat from tropers weapons. Also they are apapted to vacum but that did not gave them special imunities.).

I state that since a known heat resistant suit (firebat) provides similar protection from heat (Lava, firebat attacks) the second suit must also be heat resistant. It's quite simple logic, really. Just the same way, if we see a ship holding up under enemy fire as easily as an ISD, we can conclude it has similar shielding. Ditto here

If that is your statement, then you know you are wrong. Because the firebat does no heat attack as you pointed out before. Thefore we can only conclude they have protection to firebat attack not heat. And since they cannt really cross large potions of lava, their protection is not enough for this.
Those are mine. But we have been there , isn't ?. Taking from what happened the disease thing when we quickly achived to a agreement, i would say about this topic we will never with the little information blizzard gave to us. So lets wait for the SC II and see if we can see something else.
If there Blizzard states (or something similar) zergs can eat magma , I will agree and believe that your logical points made up the designers mind and that was not a big absurd to happen. I do not feel shame for this. Agreed ?

[Moonstone Spider]

I think you forgot that you pointed out and i have agree there was no fire damage or heat damage. That is why they all take the same damage. There is no heat weapons.

On the contrary, I stated that they are not normal flame but some sort of concussive plasma. The name Firebat, and Peridition strongly suggest heat-based weaponry, however the only reason firebats came into this argument was your claim that the damage from them meant Zerg could not survive lava. Since you now claim no firebat flame damage, there is no possible contradiction to Zerg energy immunity. Well and good.

And He is not protected from Radiation (He is affected by Science Vessel Irradiate) but of course would by not logical saying he have some degree of protection from Radiation. But not enough in the military weapon scale.
Also, they have not this "thousand degrees" protection or else they would just walk over the big rifts of lava.

The big rifts are pits, and actually not as glowing (and thus likely not as hot) as the lava pools. Either way we don't really know why they don't go down in the trenches, it might be because they are tectonically unstable or simply difficult to navigate. Either way, it doesn't change what we see, Zerg digging into lava pools. You cannot say they don't do that, merely that they don't go into chasms. Why? We can speculate but speculation < Canon and the burrowing into magma is canon.

Marine suits are said to have NBC protection (and a nuke leaves no harmful radiation to Marines) but are still affected by Irradiate, which means either Irradiate is some sort of advanced Funky radiation that penetrates normal shielding or the canon is wrong. Since we don't throw out Canon unless there's no other alternative, Irradiate is funky radiation that penetrates normal shielding. Again, don't try to throw out Canon because you have a theory. The same goes for Plague, like stormies Marines have NBC but plague still affects them.

Fine, how much is that ??

For Basalt, that would be around 1400 Degrees for it to be that color. However that's fairly rough, it could be cooler or hotter.

Nah, you do not need, It was mistaken from me. Perhaps I failed to really express what i wanted to say.
If they could just walk over lava or burrow there why they do not do in the large rifts ? That would be a great advantage for Zergs. They do not. They just do in those cracks.

We don't know why, but they do burrow into lava so it doesn't matter, we know they can survive lava from that.

Its a good explanation for lack of buldings. I thought about that and i think that stands a problem:
If you have a porting of a terran in the middle of a river of lava, or cracks with enough size for bulding, you can build here. In the middle of such molten earth in a piece of molten earth. The earth pieces do not move (but then water does not also ^^) but such bigger pieces can hold the bulding when should not. I guess this question i made was in the end useless for any purpose because the visualization does not help much.
Also, the burrow is not much beneath the surfice since the ammount of earth over him does not protect him, therefore he may still in earth, not deep down in lava.

Depends on how well attached the earch pieces are, I'm no geologist and I don't know how firmly fixed an island is. It may be all they need is a firm surface and the magma lakes are like jello but it doesn't matter if the whole surface shifts a bit now and then. As for burrow, we don't know how much earth would be needed to protect a Zergling from weapons fire, they could be shooting through six feet of earth. After all, 2 inches of some sort of advanced alloy doesn't stop them and an inch of steel is several inches of earth. According to this link: http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/Par ... pahoe.html the surface of such lava is less than 1 meter (and that lava has considerably less red than what's onscreen, suggesting a much thinner surface onscreen). Here's an A'a flow less than 2 meters thick which doesn't glow at all except on the edges. http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/vol ... i/020.html What's my point? It's crust appears to be only 2 feet thick. Since Starcraft lava glows far more brightly, it is likely to contain more energy or else have a much thinner crust in order to look redder. Since a Zergling is roughly human size but with longer limbs and an odd shape it's not going to be able to fit more than perhaps a third of it's body into even the thickest crust. A Hydralisk is much bigger than that and will only be able to get perhaps 1/4 of it's body inside the surface. In addition they can burrow into the cracks directly, as I've already said, which means the red part, no crust to hide in at all. This argument dies. I'll accept your point to the degree that a Zerg can only withstand lava on 5 curbic sides and the sixth is up against the surface and cool, that's still more heat exposure than a Blaster Bolt is likely to produce. Eventually they can do damage but it's going to take artillery or else every blaster they have on full power on a single Zergling. And if they need those kinds of tactics for individual enemies they're goners.

Well, I must remember that I used Blizzard statments and you main argument come from the adaptation of Zergs (Logical one, but I think that does not mean being able to resist that to being able to resist heat from tropers weapons. Also they are apapted to vacum but that did not gave them special imunities.).

I also used Blizzard's statments here and there. You tried to use a LACK of statements to produce a false dichotomy, because Blizzard did not say "They can burrow into Lava." you have tried to show that the visuals are wrong, visuals win over dialogue if there's a chance of contradiction, which there isn't since you have no dialogue actually saying they CAN'T do what I've shown they do. Going into space unharmed means they are immune to suffocation, the amount of radiation one would be exposed to in space, the heat of direct sunlight in space, and the cold of solid shadow in space (Just on the Moon that means roughly 250C to -203C). Being in space and surviving comfortably actually implies a heck of a lot of immunities.

If that is your statement, then you know you are wrong. Because the firebat does no heat attack as you pointed out before. Thefore we can only conclude they have protection to firebat attack not heat. And since they cannt really cross large potions of lava, their protection is not enough for this.
Those are mine. But we have been there , isn't ?. Taking from what happened the disease thing when we quickly achived to a agreement, i would say about this topic we will never with the little information blizzard gave to us. So lets wait for the SC II and see if we can see something else.
If there Blizzard states (or something similar) zergs can eat magma , I will agree and believe that your logical points made up the designers mind and that was not a big absurd to happen. I do not feel shame for this. Agreed?

Okay, as siad before, if you insist there's no heat although I think that's an incredibly stupid argument for a unit called "Firebat." Either way the Zerg burrow into Lava, ergo they can withstand 13-1400 degree heat on most of their bodies. Stormie weapons don't make the grade.

Last of all consider the Dark Swarm. This Zerg effect causes a massive cloud of living parasites for form a field in which all directed fire weapon attacks are warped and twisted off path, making them useless as aim is for crap. Inside a Dark Swarm only Melee combat is possible. In Melee who would you vote for, the Stormies and At-Sts or the Zerglings and Ultralisks?