Bugs vs Stormtroopers

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-02-22 10:18pm

The bugs from the book starship troopers.

The stromies are conducting Operation Bughouse. Just replace the MI with Stormies. Nothing else.

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2004-02-22 10:20pm

ISD support for the troopers?

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-02-22 10:21pm

No. You take the individual MI trooper and replace him with a stromtrooper. No other force subs.

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2004-02-22 10:27pm

Only troopers? No Vehicles?
I think the Bugs would win.
The weapons used by their warriors can kill a MI with one shot and the have an ungodly number of theses warriors .
And the bugs could use nukes to kill the troppers,

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-02-22 10:48pm

Stormies are stomped. They lack the mobility, strength, and heavy armament of the book MI.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-02-22 10:59pm

There are different storm trooper setups. What about those big mech-ish power suits from Jedi Knight: Academy? The RPGs have power suits too, I don't see it beyond the Storm troopers to have some heavy powersuited units.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-02-22 11:09pm

Gagme, I am using Canon here. Not games or RPG's

And the Book Starship Troopers out ranks the movie on the canon scale

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-22 11:55pm

What's the energy output of the bugs weapons?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-23 12:16am

Unknown. The only description of the Bugs rayguns is that that it goes through Mobile Infantry armor like "a hot knife through an egg". That indicates that they are really high powered, given that Mobile Infantry suits can walk around in craters that are so hot that they'd instantly immolate an unsuited human for extended periods of time without harm.

On topic, given that this is Stormtroopers (not Stardestroyers) versus Bugs, I'm going to have to go with the Arachnids. For one thing, Klendathu is their homeworld, not some piddling outpost hive. There are going to be billions of warriors on the planet and it's their home territory. Secondly, Warriors work together like they are one being and are smart and aggressive fighters. They ambush by attacking from the ground and quickly burrowing tunnels, use armor fragging rayguns, and if necessary, aren't opposed to using nuclear landmines in a pinch. I don't think the Stormtroopers can win this, the deck is stacked completely against them.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-02-23 01:10am

Okay

two new scenarios.

first one. Three ISD in orbit. NO BDZ. The planet must be taken intact.

second. 5 ISD plus support ships. same as above

Remember this is the home planet. The bugs will use everything they have to stop you.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-23 01:13am

No, probably not (at least not winning). I'm just guessing *maybe* megajoule range weapons (this assumes that MI armor is resistant to energy levels that could instantly incinerate/cremate a human body, but its probably a reasonably accurate order of magnitude estimate.)

In an open field (and with the rifles and light repeaters and other equipment in ANH) they probably could set up a defensive perimeter and fight at range (unless the Bug weapons have multi-km range) But that's about it (Ie purely defensive - if they get into enclosed spaces they're probably in trouble). I must say that it seems that this scenario is deliberately stacked *against* the stormtroopers - because if this is the bugs home base, they obviously (aside from a numerical advantage) have alot of resourcese at their disposal (defenses, structures, weapons, etc.) The stormtroopers, by contrast, have only what they might carry.

Why they don't have any sort of light armored forces (even light armor) puzzles me. (They have Darktroopers, Spacetroopers, Radiation troopers, etc.) That would seem like a more accurate comparison.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-23 01:16am

Err, ISD's in orbit (to provide orbital bombardment suppor - you dont need to BDZ them to do that) as well as heavy armor (AT-ATs, etc.) and TIEs is overkill on the parrt of the Imperials. You wouldn't really even need the stormtroopers until the end.

Could I suggest maybe using spacetroopers/darktroopers to replace the MI in equal numbers, plus maybe a few assault transports to carry them/act as bases?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-23 01:18am

Didn't we just do this, or was that crap specifically with the movie version?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-23 01:21am

It's rather unfair to take the light infantry of a conventional infantry/cavalry/artillery/CAS combined-forces army, separate them from the support equipment they're designed to work with, and then use them in a force-sub to replace units in an army which is built around a rather different paradigm of individual super-troopers.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-23 01:22am

Darth Wong wrote:It's rather unfair to take the light infantry of a conventional infantry/cavalry/artillery/CAS combined-forces army, separate them from the support equipment they're designed to work with, and then use them in a force-sub to replace units in an army which is built around a rather different paradigm of individual super-troopers.

That's why I'm suggesting Darktrooper/Spacetroopers

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-02-23 01:25am

Okay thats true Wong. Replace the Stormies for the first sub.

Remove the ISDs and just give them armor support.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-02-23 01:44am

Darth Wong wrote:It's rather unfair to take the light infantry of a conventional infantry/cavalry/artillery/CAS combined-forces army, separate them from the support equipment they're designed to work with, and then use them in a force-sub to replace units in an army which is built around a rather different paradigm of individual super-troopers.

That was what I was going to say. All BMI heavy weapons and the like are organic to individual troops or at most squads, while Imperial firepower is more dispersed among different systems.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-23 10:24am

Connor MacLeod wrote:No, probably not (at least not winning). I'm just guessing *maybe* megajoule range weapons (this assumes that MI armor is resistant to energy levels that could instantly incinerate/cremate a human body, but its probably a reasonably accurate order of magnitude estimate.)

It's not an assumption, Rico says as much when he puts men to guard the crater made by a nuclear explosion on Planet P. What's interesting is the reason he does this. The threat there is that the Bugs were possibly going to attack from the crater to get at them.

In an open field (and with the rifles and light repeaters and other equipment in ANH) they probably could set up a defensive perimeter and fight at range (unless the Bug weapons have multi-km range) But that's about it (Ie purely defensive - if they get into enclosed spaces they're probably in trouble). I must say that it seems that this scenario is deliberately stacked *against* the stormtroopers - because if this is the bugs home base, they obviously (aside from a numerical advantage) have alot of resourcese at their disposal (defenses, structures, weapons, etc.) The stormtroopers, by contrast, have only what they might carry.

Not even that would work. Aside from the fact that the Bugs are a match for the Mobile Infantry (who consider a kilometer distant point blank range), the Bugs are very capable of digging under the defense perimeter and attack up into to.

Why they don't have any sort of light armored forces (even light armor) puzzles me. (They have Darktroopers, Spacetroopers, Radiation troopers, etc.) That would seem like a more accurate comparison.

How much of a difference would that make in this scenario? The Arachnids already can readily kill the Mobile Infantry, which are far more dangerous than anything the Stormtroopers can put forward.

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2004-02-23 11:21am

Ok if the Empire had 10 billion stormtroopers with spacetrooper armour and some armour support then sure they might have a chance

This is very hard to win with Imperial forces under the setup. If I had a ISD why land troops untill I had removed any concentration of bugs large enough to be engaged by the ship board weapons??. After all a bug city needn't be taken intact??.

Possibly if you used huge quantities of combat droids (you might have to go to EU for these) some stormtroopers and armour support. In other words out number the bugs 20 to 1 or even 2000 to 1. Course this ignores how you can get troops to the planet let alone in one peice.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2004-02-23 11:42am

harbringer wrote:Course this ignores how you can get troops to the planet let alone in one peice.

Short of their uber infantry, the BSSverse has nothing to compete with Imperial technology or armed forces, wether MI or Arachnide. I think that landing troops will be easy.
That's once they stepped outside of the transport that trouble arise

.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-23 12:10pm

The Nomad wrote:Short of their uber infantry, the BSSverse has nothing to compete with Imperial technology or armed forces, wether MI or Arachnide. I think that landing troops will be easy.
That's once they stepped outside of the transport that trouble arise .

What are you talking about? The Terran Federation is capable of completely destroying the surface of planets with nuclear weapons and by the end of the war, developed a missile that could literally destroy an entire planet (the nova bomb). Of course, Rico was a ground pounder, so he never really talked about the Navy side of the Federation except in snippets and hints (he didn't know very much about them, the Army and Navy types didn't really hang out together). In terms of sheer firepower, the Federation has some good examples and the Arachnids have about equal technology (it was said that the Federation navy is only arguably better than the Bugs).

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2004-02-23 05:54pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:What are you talking about? The Terran Federation is capable of completely destroying the surface of planets with nuclear weapons and by the end of the war, developed a missile that could literally destroy an entire planet (the nova bomb).

It's been a while since I read the book, but their greatest feat was supposed to be 'cracking the planet open' ( which could mean DS-style destruction as well as mere BDZ crust fragmenting ).

Of course, it might be the translation. With terms that vague, you never know.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-23 06:39pm

The Nomad wrote:It's been a while since I read the book, but their greatest feat was supposed to be 'cracking the planet open' ( which could mean DS-style destruction as well as mere BDZ crust fragmenting ).

Of course, it might be the translation. With terms that vague, you never know.

Rico references the nova bomb other times. He also describes it as "blow[ing] a planet out of the sky", which doesn't sound like mere BDZ crust fragmentation.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-24 02:19am

Gil Hamilton wrote: It's not an assumption, Rico says as much when he puts men to guard the crater made by a nuclear explosion on Planet P. What's interesting is the reason he does this. The threat there is that the Bugs were possibly going to attack from the crater to get at them.

The heat in the crater is going to be applied over the entire surface area of the armor, not on a small area (like the bug beam weapons.) The intensity is likely to be different.

Not even that would work. Aside from the fact that the Bugs are a match for the Mobile Infantry (who consider a kilometer distant point blank range), the Bugs are very capable of digging under the defense perimeter and attack up into to.

Stormtrooper packs have equipment for setting up perimeters (OT VD). (WE know blasters have multi-km ranges.. TESB, AOTC, AOTC ICS, etc.)
Anyways, are multi-km ranges for ALL of the MI's weapons, or just certain kinds? I'm a bit puzzled why you think the stormtrtooper would be unable to detect the bugs burrowing under htem with their sensors, for that matter. Although it certainly does make even a defensive fight problematic (I'm just not convinced the stormtroopers still have NO chance.)

How much of a difference would that make in this scenario? The Arachnids already can readily kill the Mobile Infantry, which are far more dangerous than anything the Stormtroopers can put forward.

Based on what, exactly? I haven't seen anything concrete about MI firepower, either. (Darktroopers are force users using heavy powered armor that includes heavy rifles, rocket launchers, etc.. and some use the Dark Side.. Spacetroopers are powerful enough to fend off/fight enemy starfighters (Spacetroopers fired on Wedge/the Falcon, at least with the mini torpedoes.)

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-24 02:21am

Before we start discussing larger scale, maybe we should get some harder figures on Bug numbers, capabilities, what sorts of defensees they have, etc. (As wlel as what the humans attacked them with numerically so we can work up equivalents.)