Boba Fett versus the Predator...

[Vympel]

Why is this bullshit about Leia's arm still going? Burning chest shot. Jesus, it's not that fucking hard.

[Connor MacLeod]

There were orders to take Leia alive.

Very unlikely. Nevertheless, armour can appear to be normal clothes (like that assassin's [forget the name] shell-spun sweater in Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, and it was a hit to the arm. Most people don't die when you shoot their arm, except maybe from blood loss. But blasters tend to cauterize a wound to a certain extent.

There are also numerous examples of such in the DK visual dictionaries (paritcularily the Ep1 and 2 VD's.)


It should alos be noted the OT VD also makes it clear that stormtrooper armor has blaster energy "heat sinks" designed to absorb the energy of incoming shots (therefore its not just that the armor withstands it..)

[Connor MacLeod]

As for blaster power, aside from the mentioned canon examples, there is also "Tattooine ghost" which sets blaster rifle power in the tens of MJ range, the AOTC ICS which also sets clonetrooper rifles at the low MJ range, minimum (minimum in that it assumes modern materials. TG is a more precise value because it is based on the sudden vaporization of a known quantity of water.)

These are also supported by the ANH novelization (where a max power blaster carbine can blast a man-sized opening in a door of SW metal), as well as comparisons to lightsabers.

I'm a bit curious as to what sorts of firepower levels the Predator can claim (and by level I mean what sort sof numbers have been derived , even though I *know* that I am going to get dumb looks over this and typically asking for numbers is like pulling teeth.)

[Vympel]

So far the Predator's big achievements are hitting a few trees (resulting in much sparkage) and blowing a hole through Jesse Ventura. His wrist gun is *almost* capable of penetrating police body armor (with a metal or ceramic plate). I have no idea how to derive numbers from any of these events.

[Mechwarrior]

Incorrect. The Predator does shoot Blaine twice.....

Blasted lack of an edit button!

Anyways heres the little rat thing the pred shot...to splash blaine.

http://members.shaw.ca/dmz/debatepics/PREDATOR-1-2.jpg

No that could have been the aplash that hit Blaine for 2 reasons
1) there was no shot from the Pred before the one that hit Blaine in the back. (a hit that actually blasted something SOLID OUT of his chest by the way)
2) The angle of the Splash came from above and the Critter was pretty much at Blaines feet.

[Mechwarrior]

Damn no edit button, Meant to say that could NOT have been the splash.

[beyond hope]

If someone got a shot of the entrance and exit wounds, could you use pixel scaling to determine the volume of tissue missing and then calculate how much energy it would take to boil or vaporize it?

[Laird]

jaeron20: 20-30 kilos..
jaeron20: maybe ~100 MJ or so? (low powered shot that roasted blaine.)
jaeron20: well its less than say 300-400 MJ
jaeron20: as I said, its still approximately an order of magnitude estimate(Full powered shot based on what it does to a armoured colonial marine in the AVP games which are offical.)

So Connor did alittle calcing for the Plasma caster last night and came up with these numbers.

his absolute min for the shot that killed blaine was "In the low MJ range,Upwards of 22MJ."

The 100MJ shot is refering to this http://members.shaw.ca/dmz/debatepics/shot.JPG (A face hugger being vaporized and a glassed spot where the face hugger was.)


300-400mj shot.
http://members.shaw.ca/dmz/debatepics/shot2.JPG (All thats left after a full powered shot is the lower body and the left arm.)

[Laird]

If someone got a shot of the entrance and exit wounds, could you use pixel scaling to determine the volume of tissue missing and then calculate how much energy it would take to boil or vaporize it?

http://members.shaw.ca/dmz/debatepics/wound.zip

for the exit wound go here http:members.shaw.ca/dmz/debatepics/goo,jpg

[Kamakazie Sith]

There were orders to take Leia alive.

Very unlikely. Nevertheless, armour can appear to be normal clothes (like that assassin's [forget the name] shell-spun sweater in Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, and it was a hit to the arm. Most people don't die when you shoot their arm, except maybe from blood loss. But blasters tend to cauterize a wound to a certain extent.

Also, from the position of the hit (top of arm, rather than side) it appeared to be a grazing shot.

I can agree with that.

[Connor MacLeod]

jaeron20: 20-30 kilos..
jaeron20: maybe ~100 MJ or so? (low powered shot that roasted blaine.)
jaeron20: well its less than say 300-400 MJ
jaeron20: as I said, its still approximately an order of magnitude estimate(Full powered shot based on what it does to a armoured colonial marine in the AVP games which are offical.)

So Connor did alittle calcing for the Plasma caster last night and came up with these numbers.

his absolute min for the shot that killed blaine was "In the low MJ range,Upwards of 22MJ."

The 100MJ shot is refering to this http://members.shaw.ca/dmz/debatepics/shot.JPG (A face hugger being vaporized and a glassed spot where the face hugger was.)


300-400mj shot.
http://members.shaw.ca/dmz/debatepics/shot2.JPG (All thats left after a
full powered shot is the lower body and the left arm.)

Yes, and its nicee you asked permission before posting this. anyhow, you didnt mention they are rough "order of magnitude" estimates. Meaning that they probably aren't much greater or less

[2000AD]

On the Blaine getting splashed / hit twice issue:

Watching in slo-mo this is what happened:
(Note: The DVD player i used has no screenshot function and when i use the "print screen" button the picture produced wont save as a JPEG or GIF without being fucked up. Are there any other formats i can use?)

Blaine turns away from the otter thing and something hits him. There is definately something solid that hits him. When paused it was too blurry to make out but it seemed to be a solid object and not a plasma caster shot. (On top of that the sound effect was more like the cloak/decloak effect rather than the plasma shot) If you watch his left shoulder, there's a pouch or something that goes from intact to torn, so something must have hit him.
He then seems a bit dazed, turns a bit and then gets hit by the plasma caster. The dazed reaction also seems to fit with him being hit and hurt by something rather than just being splashed.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hmmm....

Maybe he brushed a twig or branch and then it swung back and hit him.

[2000AD]

Hmmm....

Maybe he brushed a twig or branch and then it swung back and hit him.

There's definately some sort of projectile. When paused, the object isn't connected to anything like a branch would be, it's in mid air like it's just been thrown/fired. There's also the sound effect, which although it sounds like the de/cloak effect is definately a Pred effect.
It would also have to be a pretty hefty, or spiky, branch to have caused the amount of blood splatter.

[Shroom Man 777]

But you never mentioned any blood splattering when the unknown thing hit him.

Maybe it was a Predator spear gun thinggy.

[2000AD]

But you never mentioned any blood splattering when the unknown thing hit him.

Maybe it was a Predator spear gun thinggy.

*checks back* My bad. There is a bit of splatter, not as much as when the plasma hits but still more than you'd expect for if someone was hit by a branch.
On the spear gun thing, the object looked bigger than the spear would be, compared to the one in Pred 2 and the computer games. However, oddball out-on-a-limb theory time, it being the spear gun would explain the cloak sound as in the games you decloak if you use the spear gun.

[His Divine Shadow]

Boba has a wife?

Yes, she goes with him on all his Jedi hunting adventures, I dunno why but Boba goes "crikey" alot in those clips.

[Vympel]

Yes, she goes with him on all his Jedi hunting adventures, I dunno why but Boba goes "crikey" alot in those clips.

That was a pretty funny fan film

If what 2000AD says is correct, perhaps it's the wrist dart the second Predator uses on one of those Jamaicans in the Penthouse scene.

EDIT: and sorry, but I'm *highly* skeptical of selective cherry-picking of evidence from a crappy source like video games. I've played Aliens vs Predator- those supposed Colonial Marine splattering shots show no visible damage to walls of any kind.

[Connor MacLeod]

Hmmm....

Maybe he brushed a twig or branch and then it swung back and hit him.

There's definately some sort of projectile. When paused, the object isn't connected to anything like a branch would be, it's in mid air like it's just been thrown/fired. There's also the sound effect, which although it sounds like the de/cloak effect is definately a Pred effect.
It would also have to be a pretty hefty, or spiky, branch to have caused the amount of blood splatter.

Doesn't neccesarily mean its not a plasma shot. You can't just expect a plasma to remain coherent on its own, so some sort of physical containment vessel would probably be required.

[Connor MacLeod]

EDIT: and sorry, but I'm *highly* skeptical of selective cherry-picking of evidence from a crappy source like video games. I've played Aliens vs Predator- those supposed Colonial Marine splattering shots show no visible damage to walls of any kind.

Does it really matter? The firepower available to either apparently is not going to be significantly different either way (and by signfiicant, I'm meaning orders of magnitude difference.) and both the Predator and Boba Fett have multiple weapons to draw on (particularily Fett). What I see being relevant in this case is more a matter of how they approach it.

From what I recall of the movies, the Predators have a "code" about how they do these things.. they enjoy a "fair game" sort of hunt, so this might be a limiting factor (at least if Fett is aware of this, which I don't know). And while he also has ranged weapons, they also seem rather fond of those arm claws and that harpoon/spear... if he tries using that against Fett, I'm more than certain FEtt will shoot him.

For that matter, whats to say Fett has to engage him head on in hand to hand or even at a close range gunfight? Fett's only rule is to win by the most expedient means available to him - he isn't hampered by any sense of "fairness" that the Predator might or might not (at least initially, that sense of fairness leans towards "even odds" sort of behaviour - Fett can probably surprise him a few times if he plays it right, but the Pred's not going to deliberately hold back forever, either.) and won't play by the same rules the Predator is.

Another possible factor is whether or not the Predator will be expecting Fett to be packing what he does. Neither side may exactly know the other's capabilities, but Fett is used to such surprises like that (aliens packing high-technology firepower and such) and that may be a potential advantage here.

[Laird]

jaeron20: 20-30 kilos..
jaeron20: maybe ~100 MJ or so? (low powered shot that roasted blaine.)
jaeron20: well its less than say 300-400 MJ
jaeron20: as I said, its still approximately an order of magnitude estimate(Full powered shot based on what it does to a armoured colonial marine in the AVP games which are offical.)

So Connor did alittle calcing for the Plasma caster last night and came up with these numbers.

his absolute min for the shot that killed blaine was "In the low MJ range,Upwards of 22MJ."

The 100MJ shot is refering to this http://members.shaw.ca/dmz/debatepics/shot.JPG (A face hugger being vaporized and a glassed spot where the face hugger was.)


300-400mj shot.
http://members.shaw.ca/dmz/debatepics/shot2.JPG (All thats left after a
full powered shot is the lower body and the left arm.)

Yes, and its nicee you asked permission before posting this. anyhow, you didnt mention they are rough "order of magnitude" estimates. Meaning that they probably aren't much greater or less

Well I'm sorry I didn't "Ask permission" I wouldn't want you to loose face infront of your "Fellow wars fans.":P

Anyways I'll ask next time.

[Robert Walper]

Another possible factor is whether or not the Predator will be expecting Fett to be packing what he does.

FYI the Predator was seen in "Predator 2" to use his vision mdes to analyse what a potential enemy is carrying(according to the AvP movie interviews, this is going to be expanded upon significantly). This was seen at the graveyard, the Predator was confronted by a small boy carrying a toy machine gun with built in sound. The Predator locked onto the boy and his vision mode changed and apparently determined the boy's toy as not a real weapon, despite very much looking like one. Lucky for the kid.

[Connor MacLeod]

Another possible factor is whether or not the Predator will be expecting Fett to be packing what he does.

FYI the Predator was seen in "Predator 2" to use his vision mdes to analyse what a potential enemy is carrying(according to the AvP movie interviews, this is going to be expanded upon significantly). This was seen at the graveyard, the Predator was confronted by a small boy carrying a toy machine gun with built in sound. The Predator locked onto the boy and his vision mode changed and apparently determined the boy's toy as not a real weapon, despite very much looking like one. Lucky for the kid.

Wow. He can tell if someone is armed or not (and can distingiush between a real chemically-propelled weapon and a fake.) So?

[Connor MacLeod]

Well I'm sorry I didn't "Ask permission" I wouldn't want you to loose face infront of your "Fellow wars fans.":P

Oh, that scares me. Yet you consider me reliable enough to at least ask to do calcs.

Anyways I'll ask next time.

Thank you.

[Robert Walper]

Another possible factor is whether or not the Predator will be expecting Fett to be packing what he does.

FYI the Predator was seen in "Predator 2" to use his vision mdes to analyse what a potential enemy is carrying(according to the AvP movie interviews, this is going to be expanded upon significantly). This was seen at the graveyard, the Predator was confronted by a small boy carrying a toy machine gun with built in sound. The Predator locked onto the boy and his vision mode changed and apparently determined the boy's toy as not a real weapon, despite very much looking like one. Lucky for the kid.

Wow. He can tell if someone is armed or not (and can distingiush between a real chemically-propelled weapon and a fake.) So?

The point being we know the Predator's vision technology can identify what is a weapon and not, even weapons outside of it's own arsenal. Therefore it would seem to be a safe assumption the Predator would realize that Fett is packing a great deal of weaponry, even if that weaponry is not completely understood or known. This was merely addressing your statement the Predator would have no idea what Fett is armed with. The Predator most certainly wouldn't understand everything Fett is carrying, but he should at least be able to recognize that Fett is heavily equipped, and adapt tactics accordingly.