You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

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Solauren
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by Solauren » 2019-02-07 06:03pm

That's actually an interesting approach, Mr. Chicken. (Sorry, always wanted to do that to someone).
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by Gandalf » 2019-02-07 06:12pm

Invictus ChiKen wrote:
2019-02-07 05:37pm
With the war averted and the USA whole again the question becomes what to do with the Slaves? For part of a long term plan I'd back the colonize Africa plan (with several T-800s on the return trip as part of the long term plan).
Why? At this point a lot of slaves didn't see themselves as Africans. Would you force them back?
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The Romulan Republic
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-02-07 07:27pm

Gandalf wrote:
2019-02-07 06:12pm
Invictus ChiKen wrote:
2019-02-07 05:37pm
With the war averted and the USA whole again the question becomes what to do with the Slaves? For part of a long term plan I'd back the colonize Africa plan (with several T-800s on the return trip as part of the long term plan).
Why? At this point a lot of slaves didn't see themselves as Africans. Would you force them back?
This.

By the time shit hit the fan in the 1850s and 1860s, slavery wasn't really about economics, or at least not entirely. It was about the self-justifying ideology of white supremacy that the Slavocracy had developed, and about the deadly fear that if the millions of people who they had treated as animals ever got free, they would turn on their masters and destroy them. Even in the North, you had widespread fear of an influx of freed blacks coming and taking jobs and so forth IIRC. There would be no peaceful solution by providing an economic replacement to slavery, because then you have millions of free black people living in America and the South (and to some extent the North, especially pre-war) will not tolerate that. So you have to get rid of the black people if you don't want to fight a war. Which is probably why historically a lot of anti-slavery politicians did support the "colonization" idea of sending them back to Africa. Lincoln supported it, for a time, before his views on abolition became more radical. But the black people themselves won't willing go for it, because for some reason, despite America having done nothing to earn their affection or loyalty, many of them had come to regard America as their home.

The civil war was coming. Arguably from the moment slavery was enshrined in the founding of the United States, it was as close to inevitable as any historical event could be. It was only a matter of time, and what the specific trigger would be.
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by Solauren » 2019-02-07 09:28pm

now, assuming a 'replacement labor force' route was offered, would the confederate states be comfortable with say, the ex-slaves being resettled in their own towns (and perhaps even states).

Note: I seriously doubt it, but putting the idea out there to show, despite my being a would be super-villian, I am open to other ideas before I finally send out my legions....
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2019-02-07 09:40pm

Solauren wrote:
2019-02-07 09:28pm
now, assuming a 'replacement labor force' route was offered, would the confederate states be comfortable with say, the ex-slaves being resettled in their own towns (and perhaps even states).
My source(s) say no.
Note: I seriously doubt it, but putting the idea out there to show, despite my being a would be super-villian, I am open to other ideas before I finally send out my legions...
And, they'll fight you to other people's deaths for the right to be small-minded hateful bigots who get off on owning other human beings. Same way Nazi Germany fought to the bitter end of other people's lives and their head psychopath's suicide, just so a bunch of cruel people could go on being cruel to others in the name of mastery.
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by Solauren » 2019-02-10 05:58pm

You remember where my legions are Terminators, and almost completely immune to period weapons, right?
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-02-10 07:45pm

Solauren wrote:
2019-02-10 05:58pm
You remember where my legions are Terminators, and almost completely immune to period weapons, right?
Yeah, the people who will be being sent to die will be legions of poor Southerners. Just like in real life, only more so. Because for all its stupidity, at least Picket's Charge was against cannons, not plasma rifles with gunship support.
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by Solauren » 2019-02-10 08:24pm

I thought you believed that sheer shock and awe would deal with most of the CSA military resistance quickly?
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-02-10 10:04pm

Solauren wrote:
2019-02-10 08:24pm
I thought you believed that sheer shock and awe would deal with most of the CSA military resistance quickly?
Oh, I think they'll certainly crumble once it sinks in that there is literally no meaningful resistance they can offer. The question is how many troops they'll throw into pointless campaigns against the Terminators before the leadership figures that out (or before the army starts deserting en mass, which I expect will happen first).

Even if you handle them delicately and do not send out Terminators to massacre every Confederate army, a lot of lives will be pointlessly lost- from accidents and disease on the campaign trail, and from the economic effects of the (necessary, in my opinion) dismantling of Confederate industrial and military infrastructure).

I also expect that you'd have to make at least one (possibly more than one) "demonstration" on a Confederate army to properly get the point across.

I wonder if there will be significant efforts to turn the conflict into a religious war. While this isn't the dark ages, Terminators are sufficiently far outside 19th. Century America's experience that they might well be seen by some as "demonic hordes"- with religious and political leaders trying to inspire resistance by painting this as the Biblical Armageddon.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by Steve » 2019-03-12 12:23am

*looks at OP, cackles evilly*

Oh, the havoc that waits to be wrought... :twisted:

Although I'd prefer ten more years, and an easily hidden base. Put me in 1851 and by the time of Lincoln's historic election, I could have the South tearing itself apart in insurrection scares. The South was prone enough to them without robot infiltrators actually dumping strychnine into wells or poisoning meals.or setting fire to plantation houses... :twisted:
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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by Gandalf » 2019-03-12 01:31am

Steve wrote:
2019-03-12 12:23am
*looks at OP, cackles evilly*

Oh, the havoc that waits to be wrought... :twisted:

Although I'd prefer ten more years, and an easily hidden base. Put me in 1851 and by the time of Lincoln's historic election, I could have the South tearing itself apart in insurrection scares. The South was prone enough to them without robot infiltrators actually dumping strychnine into wells or poisoning meals.or setting fire to plantation houses... :twisted:
Wouldn't that kill a lot of innocent people? Or is this just an internet tough guy shitpost?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: You get to intervene in the US Civil War (RAR).

Post by Steve » 2019-03-12 10:57am

Gandalf wrote:
2019-03-12 01:31am
Steve wrote:
2019-03-12 12:23am
*looks at OP, cackles evilly*

Oh, the havoc that waits to be wrought... :twisted:

Although I'd prefer ten more years, and an easily hidden base. Put me in 1851 and by the time of Lincoln's historic election, I could have the South tearing itself apart in insurrection scares. The South was prone enough to them without robot infiltrators actually dumping strychnine into wells or poisoning meals.or setting fire to plantation houses... :twisted:
Wouldn't that kill a lot of innocent people? Or is this just an internet tough guy shitpost?
As I'm currently re-reading William Freehling's "The Road to Disunion", which includes an extensive examination of how Southern society worked in all of the regions and incidents like the Madison County Insurrection Scare in 1835 (which led to, among other things, outright shooting when the extrajudicial mobs tried to forcefully extradite citizens of neighboring Hinds County), it was more me letting my dark side out to play. Preferably this would be done with minimal violence and loss of life and I now admit it was not the best post to start off with.

But let's be honest, this isn't being done cleanly. Even those parts of the South that were willing to consider the slow process of "post-nati emancipation" (that is, everyone born after a certain date is free at a specific age, which would still provisionally allow for them to be sold out of state before their emancipating birthday) were likely to violently objection to the imposition of emancipation from above, and as noted, the governing mentality was that you could not have freed slaves living side by side with their former masters (A mentality only challenged in Delaware and Maryland). Nor will a mass migration of Afro-Americans to Colorado be permitted easily, since that's seen as taking land meant for further white settlement. Even if you overawe them at first, eventually, there will be trouble. Lamentably, it is still likely to be the less bloody outcome short of forcing Afro-Americans to leave for Africa, and as the failure of the Colonization Society showed, the vast majority were not going to head down there willingly.
”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

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