Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

User avatar
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10527
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-10-15 03:25pm

Just about to fire it up on the iplayer.
To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15416
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-15 04:24pm

Still pissed I missed this one, but I have been very busy lately.

Was it any good?
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

User avatar
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10527
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-10-15 04:25pm

Quite enjoyed this episode, the ending was a little predictable, I'm not sure I like the rags hinting at a great mystery about the Doctor. (Been there done that) But basically solid.

The performances and relations of the main cast, the Doctor and the especially the three companions is very well done and the real strength of the episode.

Whittaker really excelled in the TARDIS reunion scene though.
To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15416
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-15 04:29pm

I expected Whittaker to be good, but I'm glad to hear that the ensemble is holding its own as well. Should be an interesting new dynamic for the new series (though not for Who if you go back to the really old days, of course). The closest we've had is 11/Amy/Rory (and sometimes River), and I really liked 11/Amy/Rory's dynamic.

Agreed that we don't need a new mystery about the Doctor every season. That was a Moffatism I can do without.

Edit: I suppose it made sense to focus more on the Doctor's identity around the 50th (even if it could have been better-written), but that was five years ago.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 9462
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: Bound in a nutshell

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2018-10-15 04:48pm

I rather enjoyed that, though pretty much as soon as they mentioned the flesh-eating microbes and started wondering where the people went I'm thinking "um...the microbes killed them perhaps?" It was an interesting development that this wasn't science gone wrong but people being forced to make weapons. Nice touch.

The new Doctor and her crew are working very nicely I think. Whittaker is completely selling it for me. The TARDIS reunion was particularly well-done. As for the new Console Room set, I'm not completely convinced about it yet, but I suspect that rather like Eleven's first version it'll grow on me. The "You've redecorated" line was just perfect.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

bilateralrope
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3837
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by bilateralrope » 2018-10-15 04:50pm

Those tooth collecting warriors seem to be seem to be a local power that the rest of the galaxy doesn't care about. And part of this seasons overall plot.

User avatar
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10527
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-10-15 04:55pm

I just realised; this was an 'everybody lives' episode. I was expecting at some one to fall into to microbe waters.

Oh and the Stanza are being set up as an ongoing threat, and interestingly Thirteen seems to know a lot less about things. Or at least that's the impression I'm getting.
To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15416
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-15 04:57pm

Okay, having seen the new TARDIS interior... its different, as they all are, but I like it well enough. It has an interesting atmosphere, a little reminiscent of Ten's TARDIS, actually.

Anyone see the teaser for the next episode? Rosa Parks on Doctor Who. Hope they don't screw it up. Writing an episode around US race relations is like walking into a minefield, and I wonder if some nuances might be lost on British writers, but good for them for doing it anyway.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

User avatar
B5B7
Jedi Knight
Posts: 719
Joined: 2005-10-22 02:02am
Location: Perth Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by B5B7 » 2018-10-16 12:21am

There were a couple of odd points - the guy who is supposed to be selfish rescued two people from space, and the Doctor freaking out when the Tardis wasn't there when they got to the destination - she should know that the Tardis has a habit of phasing in and out and turning up when it desires, so that may need to wait a little while.
I have an explanation for why the robots were such poor shots - the scientists sabotaged their programming.
TVWP: "Janeway says archly, "Sometimes it's the female of the species that initiates mating." Is the female of the species trying to initiate mating now? Janeway accepts Paris's apology and tells him she's putting him in for a commendation. The salamander sex was that good."
"Not bad - for a human"-Bishop to Ripley
GALACTIC DOMINATION Empire Board Game visit link below:
GALACTIC DOMINATION

User avatar
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10527
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-10-16 02:50am

The two competitors were expecting bonuses in the competition for having picked the people up but the organiser had discontinued that in the final stage.

And 13's memory still seems a little off.
To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

User avatar
Admiral Valdemar
Outside Context Problem
Posts: 31558
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:17pm
Location: UK

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Admiral Valdemar » 2018-10-16 05:21am

Yeah, but custard cream dispenser, people.

User avatar
B5B7
Jedi Knight
Posts: 719
Joined: 2005-10-22 02:02am
Location: Perth Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by B5B7 » 2018-10-16 07:23am

I have just rewatched the episode and this time saw and remembered the bits about the bonuses.
There are a couple of HHGG references with this episode - the spaceships grabbing people from death in space is like what happened with Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect, and the Doctor used the line 'Don't panic' shortly after.
TVWP: "Janeway says archly, "Sometimes it's the female of the species that initiates mating." Is the female of the species trying to initiate mating now? Janeway accepts Paris's apology and tells him she's putting him in for a commendation. The salamander sex was that good."
"Not bad - for a human"-Bishop to Ripley
GALACTIC DOMINATION Empire Board Game visit link below:
GALACTIC DOMINATION

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2057
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Q99 » 2018-10-19 04:44am

I'm digging the fairly big crew. Gives a lot to work with.
Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-10-15 04:25pm
Whittaker really excelled in the TARDIS reunion scene though.

Yes, they really care for each other :)

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2057
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Q99 » 2018-10-19 08:37pm

Observations on 13- Having heard of most species and so on around space seems to be very downplayed. Flipside, building stuff is played up- many Doctors build a sonic, but building one onscreen in a montage? And then the microwave-space-warper? 13 likes to make stuff, and it's being on-screen emphasized more.

She's very get-your-hands-dirty, as the return of Venusian Aikido also shows.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15416
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-19 09:48pm

Q99 wrote:
2018-10-19 04:44am
I'm digging the fairly big crew. Gives a lot to work with.
Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-10-15 04:25pm
Whittaker really excelled in the TARDIS reunion scene though.

Yes, they really care for each other :)
Yep.

Hmm... Eleven did call her Sexy. And the TARDIS definitely seems to identify as a female...

Does this mean the Doctor is in a lesbian relationship now?
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2057
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Q99 » 2018-10-20 03:40am

Why not? :)

HortonX25
Redshirt
Posts: 36
Joined: 2015-12-14 12:27pm

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by HortonX25 » 2018-10-20 03:42am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-19 09:48pm
Q99 wrote:
2018-10-19 04:44am
I'm digging the fairly big crew. Gives a lot to work with.
Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-10-15 04:25pm
Whittaker really excelled in the TARDIS reunion scene though.

Yes, they really care for each other :)
Yep.

Hmm... Eleven did call her Sexy. And the TARDIS definitely seems to identify as a female...

Does this mean the Doctor is in a lesbian relationship now?
Honestly, I think they should add that now just to trigger people. :lol:

User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 9462
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: Bound in a nutshell

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2018-10-20 12:37pm

Not sure you can count it as a "lesbian" relationship when one is an immortal higher-deimensional timeship and the other is a multi-lived gender-swapping species. Neither are human, neither are the same species and I would be frankly astonished if the Time Lords even ascribed to the same ideas of sex/gender as we humans do...the aforementioend regenerating thing kinda messes up that one.

It'd still be a hilarious thing to throw in though :D
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15416
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-20 03:44pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
2018-10-20 12:37pm
Not sure you can count it as a "lesbian" relationship when one is an immortal higher-deimensional timeship and the other is a multi-lived gender-swapping species. Neither are human, neither are the same species and I would be frankly astonished if the Time Lords even ascribed to the same ideas of sex/gender as we humans do...the aforementioend regenerating thing kinda messes up that one.

It'd still be a hilarious thing to throw in though :D
Its my head cannon that most Timelords are naturally bisexual, due to the regeneration issue (there are certainly hints that the Doctor him/herself is bi).
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 25808
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Broomstick » 2018-10-21 07:29am

The one thing that I am enjoying most about this series is that Thirteen is a Doctor who just happens to be female, as some just happen to have been old, or Eleven just happened to be young, and Twelve just happened to have a Scottish accent, and Nine one from "oop North" (Mancunian? Not one I'm terribly familiar with). She is not The Female Doctor but written as the Doctor, who just happens to be female.

That said, I do like the one or two subtle references we've seen to the gender change:

"Why did you call me Madam?"
"Because you're a woman"
"Does it suit me?"

"Come to daddy. I mean mummy."

One per episode at this point is quite enough, and on par with "a half an hour ago I was a white-haired Scotsman" as reference to the regeneration.

The Doctor just goes on being the Doctor in a new body, as has happened more than a dozen time before.

Also like seeing a female character being portrayed as a thing-maker - it's very consistent with being the Doctor, but not so common a female type in media.

I thought the rags were going to turn out to be the remains of the people who had been on the planet, so having them be an engineered weapon/threat was a nice turn for me.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2057
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Q99 » 2018-10-22 01:50am

It's not that they don't bring it up, like you note, but they bring it up just the right amount.

User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13624
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Tsyroc » 2018-10-24 07:35am

There were a couple of times in the episodes that I thought it got a little preachy. Once with guns and another with knives. The guns bit is consistent with what the Doctor has said before and how it worked out in episode was amusing, although how anyone but the Doctor was supposed to use the Doctor's answer to the situation is something that's just left to slide. It's one of those things that can be annoying and amusing about the Doctor.

The knife comment, "Only an idiot carries a knife.", (was that in the first episode?) bugged me because I pretty much always carry a knife and I thought it might be pandering to the government in the UK but later on a character was saved by someone who was carrying a knife. So that pretty much nullified my annoyance with the knife comment, for the most part. :) "Idiot" seems rather harsh though. :D

I did like the tie-in with the villain from the first episode. I also wonder if they'll run across the winners of the rally later in the season?
By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.

User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13624
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Tsyroc » 2018-10-24 07:45am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-20 03:44pm
Its my head cannon that most Timelords are naturally bisexual, due to the regeneration issue (there are certainly hints that the Doctor him/herself is bi).
It makes logical sense. They do live a very long time so why stay limited to one way of living?

Plus, if they have a significant other who is also a Timelord. It's very possible that person could end up switching sexes. If the couple is in love it makes sense to be go with the flow. :)

The Doctor seemed okay with and somewhat reciprocated Captain Jack's interest. I just think he was more interested in Rose at the time.
By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15416
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-24 04:41pm

Tsyroc wrote:
2018-10-24 07:35am
There were a couple of times in the episodes that I thought it got a little preachy. Once with guns and another with knives. The guns bit is consistent with what the Doctor has said before and how it worked out in episode was amusing, although how anyone but the Doctor was supposed to use the Doctor's answer to the situation is something that's just left to slide. It's one of those things that can be annoying and amusing about the Doctor.

The knife comment, "Only an idiot carries a knife.", (was that in the first episode?) bugged me because I pretty much always carry a knife and I thought it might be pandering to the government in the UK but later on a character was saved by someone who was carrying a knife. So that pretty much nullified my annoyance with the knife comment, for the most part. :) "Idiot" seems rather harsh though. :D

I did like the tie-in with the villain from the first episode. I also wonder if they'll run across the winners of the rally later in the season?
That would be funny.

The Doctor being anti-gun is pretty consistent, at least for the post-Time War regenerations. As to knives... the Doctor probably wouldn't look down much on using a knife as a tool, but generally disdains physical force, especially lethal force, when other solutions are available. This could be seen as hypocritically/self-deluded, though, as more than one version of the Doctor has killed vast numbers of people through less direct means (Eleven mind-controlling the entire human race in perpetuity into committing genocide against the Silence comes to mind). It comes across as the Doctor needing to keep a certain psychological distance from her atrocities, and then telling herself that she's not a killer as long as she doesn't carry a weapon or directly get her hands dirty (I use "her", but this is true of pretty much all the new series Doctors collectively).
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 25808
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Doctor Who Series 37 Episode 2 - "The Ghost Monument" Spoilers

Post by Broomstick » 2018-10-24 06:12pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-24 04:41pm
(Eleven mind-controlling the entire human race in perpetuity into committing genocide against the Silence comes to mind)
I saw that more as the Doctor having the Silence hoist by their own petard(s) - much like Tim Shaw and the DNA bombs. The Doctor turned the bad guys' weapon against them, and it was triggered by the bad guy trying to use it against someone else.

Admittedly, it's a fine distinction.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

Post Reply