Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-05-12 11:06am

Allied bombing seriously picked up in 1943, but three years would not be nearly enough to figure out what this technology is, at base.
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-12 06:10pm

Precisely.
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2018-05-13 04:11pm

To clarify: in my post, I wondered what the POST-WAR effects of either the United States or the USSR capturing the technology, or at the very least the means of production. 75,000 a year isn't much for Germany when you only have five years, but it would be a lot for the US if they just stockpile them until Vietnam. And this is assuming that no one ever figures out how it works.
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-05-13 05:08pm

KraytKing wrote:
2018-05-13 04:11pm
To clarify: in my post, I wondered what the POST-WAR effects of either the United States or the USSR capturing the technology, or at the very least the means of production. 75,000 a year isn't much for Germany when you only have five years, but it would be a lot for the US if they just stockpile them until Vietnam. And this is assuming that no one ever figures out how it works.
Post-war of course you'll have to seriously consider that in 5-10 years the first reverse-engineering applications will appear, and in 10-20 years it is possible that inferior, but working versions of at least some equipment parts will start being produced.

That is, if the whole thing doesn't get destroyed by the Nazis as to not fall into enemy hands. Then I guess remaining bots will be scavenged and taken apart, but it would take even longer to get applications (think 25-30 years)...
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-05-13 07:48pm

KraytKing wrote:
2018-05-11 05:15pm
I don't know enough about the time period to say for sure, but would they be capable of stepping down the output to avoid blowing up what they're trying to power?
Since the robot doesn't continuously operate at full power at all times, I'm pretty sure the battery pack and/or power plant must come with a regulator function that can control the power supply and throttle it back as needed.
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2018-05-12 02:52am
If you have a practical electric drive system for each of those vehicles.

Which Germany didn't. Porsche were trying a petrol-electric drive for their Tiger contender but it was unreliable (like more than the Tiger was already unreliable).

The whole lesson of Germany's armaments in world war 2 was that it doesn't matter if you have the best stuff if you don't have enough of it and what you do have spends half its time broken.

A new special capability that further divides Germany's supply, repair, maintainance and logistics capabilities makes their problems worse not better.
I'm a bit unsure about how bad this part would be. I mean, the reason for not having a functional electric drive... how much of that was a lack of motors, and how much was a lack of power supply? Solve the power problem, and are the motors really the obstacle?
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-13 10:22pm

It was a matter of Porsche trying to develop the technology as they were implementing it.
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Jub » 2018-05-13 10:32pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
2018-05-13 07:48pm
I'm a bit unsure about how bad this part would be. I mean, the reason for not having a functional electric drive... how much of that was a lack of motors, and how much was a lack of power supply? Solve the power problem, and are the motors really the obstacle?
The entire system pretty well universally sucked and almost none of it was due to the power supply. In fact, the power supply was literally two regular combustion engines acting as generators to power electric motors.

"The new Porsche tank, designated the VK 45.01 (P) was to be powered by twin air cooled gasoline Porsche Type 101 engines which were mounted to the rear of the tank. Each of the twin engines would then drive a separate generator, one for either side of the tank, which would then power each of two electric motors, one powering each track. But the engines along with its drive system were very prone to break down from their design and the deficient quality of copper for electrical use available to the Third Reich, and needed almost constant maintenance to keep the tank running. This, and the tank being less maneuverable than its competitor, was the reason why Henschel's 88mm-armed VK 45.01 (H) H1 prototype, which became the Tiger I, was adopted for production instead."

German designs in almost all areas got less and less reliable as the war went on for pretty well every reason you could imagine. Lack of design and testing time, lack of skilled workers, lack of materials, and Hitler's ever-changing whims and desire for year-over-year 'improvement' of all German vehicles. Just having reliable electric power is not going to be enough to fix Nazi Germany's serious issues with their design methodology and lack of raw materials.

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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Tandrax218 » 2018-05-14 07:38pm

i think everyone missed one key element of the robot design

NIGHTVISION

set the robots to work in special forces style fire team and give them Pak 40 guns or towed 88 guns, hell mount oen robot torso on a tank chasis and let ti serve as a mina gun operator and gunner - tracked tank hunter killer with nightvision

You get a fast night fighting force that can snipe away enemy armor during night and punch through strong points with ease during night, because enemy soldiers or tanks cant see in dark.

Historically the germans started fielding nightvision tech in 45' on Panther tanks

this could be a huge advantage also in the air war.
cut the legs of a robot and weld the torso and head to teh body of a Me -110 fighter bomber --> you have a night flying anti bomber aircraft that can see and shoot in the dark, effectively stopping british night bombings of industry...

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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-14 07:43pm

Why not just weld the Stahlmensch into the pilot's seat.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-05-14 07:49pm

Because it's unclear whether Stahlmensch are smart enough and flexible enough to fly a plane.
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Tandrax218 » 2018-05-14 08:46pm

and make complex piloting and they lack experience of a seasoned fighter Ace

But as autonomous turret gunner they should be good :)

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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-15 04:50am

If they fit in the plane. Like physically can be moved into the position required.

Most WW2 vehicles were a damn tight fit even for normal sized people, hulking metal men are not going to easily go into the small spaces or have much room to move when they're there (which restricts their ability to operate the position effectively).

And if you weld them into place you have to cut them out again any time you want to do any maintainance on anything at that position. Which is always on those WW2 vehicles. (A Tiger needed a maintainance check for every 10km driven).

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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Dass.Kapital » 2018-05-15 09:39am

Vendetta wrote:
2018-05-15 04:50am
If they fit in the plane. Like physically can be moved into the position required.

Most WW2 vehicles were a damn tight fit even for normal sized people, hulking metal men are not going to easily go into the small spaces or have much room to move when they're there (which restricts their ability to operate the position effectively).

And if you weld them into place you have to cut them out again any time you want to do any maintainance on anything at that position. Which is always on those WW2 vehicles. (A Tiger needed a maintainance check for every 10km driven).
I think what people are more aluding to is that the metal guys are eventually more 'built' into the plane... Much like the engine or wheels, kind of thing.

Then, when you service an engine.. or pull the wings off.. you unbolt the turret and its gun-bot as well. Now.. stuffing one inside a turret? Yah.. that might require sawing the waist/legs off the things to get them to fit inside. :P
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-15 11:00am

But you still have to access the innards of the turret to service the guns, replace the barrels, and service and fill the ammo feeds.

And then your welded in gun-robit (even if the unknown magic future technology can be adapted to the task) is in the way. And you have to do that every flight.

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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Zixinus » 2018-05-15 12:11pm

You'd also have to pray that they'll be able to distinguish friendly and non-friendly planes readily.
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2018-05-15 01:32pm

Or just throw a dozen planes into a sky full of American bombers. Odds are, they'll target the right ones.

Regardless, the question was settled a page ago.
Zor wrote:
2018-05-06 07:03am
KraytKing wrote:
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Here's a question: How good are they at flying aircraft?
Not well enough to be worthwhile. They can operate basic machine gun turrets though.

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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Tandrax218 » 2018-05-16 11:30am

wel Zor did say that thei IFF protocol distinguishes insignias and emblems , so it should work on planes also.

program them to distinguish an BF/Me/FW from a Hurri/p51/p47/spit/b17/24/25/26 and the british bombers and your good to go :D

Im still saying use them against night raids and night formations, so odds are because of their Night vision they can reliably shoot down enemy planes at night while they are blind...

Also it could be cool to select a 50 or so robots and have their bodies inserted into V1 / V2 rockets and just tell send them on ttheir way to attack british / american warrships

hell they could make gliding bombs out of them, just tell them to "hit/fly into ship "

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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Tandrax218 » 2018-05-16 11:32am

but then again, what does Zor mean when he says "not well enough" ?

iif they can keep it straight and leved and hit a factory, bridge or ship than its ok ,
if they cant fly at all then scrap this last plan ...

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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-16 12:36pm

Or, they can serve as kamikaze, though that would be wasteful of the tech.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
—29th Scroll, 6th Verse of Ape Law

"The Constitution's a piece of paper. A kick in the head is a jolt."
—Stanley "Ray" Kowalski
"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."
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Re: Hitler's Stahlmensch (RAR!)

Post by Imperial528 » 2018-05-16 01:25pm

These things are capable of manual labor, yes?

Sending them to die in the field is a massive waste, then.

Due to their low production rate and the inability of Nazi Germany to increase that rate they are essentially even less expendable than able-bodied men, which Nazi Germany already had trouble getting enough of during the war.

They can work non-stop for almost thirty-six hours and in conditions humans cannot. Many of Nazi Germany's big problems during the war were logistical in nature and while this will not solve the root causes of those problems (bad doctrines, allied bombings, etc), they will add significantly to the capacity of the underlying production systems which may make up somewhat for the failings of Nazi logistics overall.

I doubt Hitler would be capable of seeing past his ego long enough to understand this, though.

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